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Old 03-31-2005, 04:00 AM   #31
Jvaloth

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I'm a 39 assassin and I can never get a group. I truthfully spend about 2 hours every day looking for a group then just end up soloing in Feerott.
In 3 months I've received just 2 invites while using /lfg (gods honest truth). I make a run through Nek, TS, Zek, EL, Runnyeye, Deathfist Citadel, Feerott and repeat this over and over shouting and /ooc'ing LFG and never, I repeat never get an invite or tell asking me to join. Its very discouraging.

Basically I waste 2 hours every night then solo for 30 minutes arrow kiting with feysteel/feyiron arrows on the beach and get 1/5 a yellow of exp and log in disgust. Whats even sadder is that when I am soloing at various solo spots, I'm fighting for spawns with other scout types that couldnt get a group... heh. I've talked to countless other assassins that I see in zone with me shouting /lfg. I inquired into their situation and they echo my same feelings.. They too never get a group. Only way an assassin can possibly level up smoothly is to get in on a regular group with a tank and 2 healers and ride their coat tails. As a tank you need only recruit a healer and fill in the blanks to get a group going. As a healer you need only find a tank and you can fill in the blanks and get a group going. As an assassin you need to get both a tank, and a healer, then convince them or pray that they are working on the same quest you are, or want to do the same thing you wanna do, otherwise its take it or leave it. I'm so very discouraged with the class, as fun as it is to play (when I have a group) sadly its so rare that I've grown quite disenchanted.



I have a 39 Zerker on Unrest and I get a group whenever I want. I put /lfg up and 5 minutes later I'm getting tells left and right asking me to go here or there. And I can attest to the fact that I do more dmg than anyone in my group 90% of the time. (Havent really grouped with nor parsed Warlock/Wizards with my Zerker but no other class comes close to matching me; including a 39 conjuror and a 37 Ranger). 
 
P.S.  - Dont nerf my zerker, fix the assassin. 
 
Thanks.
 
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Old 03-31-2005, 01:45 PM   #32
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Jvaloth wrote:
I'm a 39 assassin and I can never get a group. I truthfully spend about 2 hours every day looking for a group then just end up soloing in Feerott.
In 3 months I've received just 2 invites while using /lfg (gods honest truth). I make a run through Nek, TS, Zek, EL, Runnyeye, Deathfist Citadel, Feerott and repeat this over and over shouting and /ooc'ing LFG and never, I repeat never get an invite or tell asking me to join. Its very discouraging.


I understand the frustration and I'm sorry you have to suffer for other players stupidity. I'm a 36 assassin and I basically never LFG. Why? I hate people without a clue, I hate those that run combatstats and have to spam the chat after each mob and I hate people with prejudices and that know jack and [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about the game, but claim to hold the absolute truth.
I'm lucky enough to play with my gf and 2 other friends, inquisitor, coercer and conjurer. I usually tank for us and tanked stuff I didn't even think it was possible to do (epicx2 lvl 35-36 mobs in Zek with 2-3 friends each , not so hard for a gurdian, but for a scout...), but well... often 2 other guys join us, a shadowknight and a necromancer, in those cases I get to stab repeatedly the mobs instead of tanking them (until I get agro, that is...).
 
My very empirical considerations are just these:
 
- If I don't fight, mobs last way longer, if I fight mobs die faster, if a fight lasts 35 seonds instead of 29, no one will suffer from brain explosion
- I can evac my group if things go south and disarm traps for them and scout for them and die to see invis for them SMILEY, they let me do this and I have fun with it.
- We quest a lot, so DPS contests are kinda irrilevant as chain pulling to grind as fast as possible is the last of my concerns, I still have to live a night of adventuring where I think I didn't pull my weight in group
- I have fun in general playing my 'sin, I was bored as hell playing my guardian, despite he was so hugely overpowered
 
As said above I'm 36, 90% of the times I have combat exp off, allowing friends to keep up with my much larger playing time, I won't hit 42+ anytime soon, let alone 50 and by then, thanks to all those that kept these issues updated on the boards, I'll probably enjoy better my class.
I know there are issues, I know there will be more in the future and I really feel sorry for those like the poster above that cannot find a group all the time, but usually it's not because of the class per se, it's because the class is very common and two of the same class are useless.
I repeatedly see guardians LFG on Lucan D'Lere server, wizards/warlocks and a lot of bruisers and zerkers too, probably because there are a truckload of them. People often reroll for the "class of the month", believe it or not it's been a common phenomenon since EQ1 Luclin era and worsened during PoP era.
We have a ton of assassins too on the server, so seeing one LFG is not that uncommon (and some do solo for the RP aspect of it, being a RP server it's pretty normal SMILEY  ), but way less then the classes mentioned above and I check the LFG tool pretty often to find a 5th or 6th member when our friends aren't on.
 
If anyone played a rogue during Luclin in EQ1, will probably remember how gimped they became for a good while: mobs with high AC and atk debuffs AoE (XtC for once), casters with insane mana regen, etc. but they eventually saw the light and got their chances to shine later on, so don't desperate.
 
I kinda don't understand the designers of this game sometimes, in all honesty the new brawler assassination skill is a bad idea on more than a level, but I'm quite confident that they'll pull out some good stuff too for the various scouts.
 
If not.... Vanguard is less than 1 year away (one can hope...) SMILEY

Message Edited by Miele on 03-31-2005 09:47 AM

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Old 04-05-2005, 04:16 AM   #33
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Yesterday I saw a level 41 warlock take out a level 44 ^^ glacier construct, i later that night tried to solo a level 48 bear (i was 47 at the time) thinking it should be just fine i may have been 1 bubble of health off and my condeming blade wasnt up, but i still tried .. ended up at the tent =(
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Old 04-09-2005, 04:28 PM   #34
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A few people have commented that we deal good dps already and that there are no issues with this. And I have to say, yes we do deal good dps... but yes, I also still have a serious issue with this. The whole point I was trying to make with this post is that currently we deal "equal dps" to most classes, except for one major fact. Other classes have other roles to play as well. Crowd control, offtanking, debuffing, buffing, travel, power feeds. We have one role: DPS. As it stands, why pick our dps over another class that can dps just as well but do so much more on top? Yes, we're just as good as other scout classes, aside from the fact that they can mez mobs, feign death, smuggle, stun, debuff, taunt. Imagine what an uproar wizards and warlocks would have if enchanters were dealing the same amt of damage as them. Each class in this game plays a role that distinguishes them from other classes. We currently do not have any real distinguishing characteristic. If our exclusive role is to be dps (which I hope it is, from what I understood when I picked this class) then we should be noticably and significantly better at it than other classes.

Just to clarify again, we can deal good dps. The numbers I've posted and the issue I'm having is in regards to fast pulls and when/how often we can deal our potential dps. I'm sure all of us have broken 200dps at some point in time even for the lower level assassins in their 30s. In fact, i could've posted parses of me hitting 5k dps by one shot assassinating grey con mobs in commonlands, or even a long 15k dmg pars at 1000dps if I wanted to sit and wait the hour for all of my attack timers to refresh properly and take the 1% chance that all of my skills will hit for maximum or near damage (and yes, sadly thats a literal 1% or probably less). Don't just look at your high parses. Jot down every pars from every single pull, good or bad, and add it up over a few hours worth of parses. You'll be suprised how low the numbers come out.

The high parses that we are technically capable of are just not realistic. These are simply just fluff attacks as many have called them. How many groups are willing to wait 300 seconds or 3600 seconds for that matter for your skills to refresh each time you want to engage a big mob (when the other high dmg dealing classes are ready to go each pull). Try counting to 300 right now. It's a lot longer than it sounds.  I can't remember how many times I've had a group member ask, "Is assassinate up? This is gonna be a rough pull.... No sorry, it'll be up in about 40 more minutes.... How much damage will it do?.... Well it "can" hit for 5-6k but usually it lands for about 2500ish damage and if it does it'll take me another hour to try again.... NM then the wizard can just use ice comet to burn him down." So instead we balance out and deal subpar damage holding off on these attacks on the off chance we may need them within the next hour.

Just as a side note, the funniest part is when you realize that your 2500 dmg assassinate hit that you waited so long to use doesn't really feel like a true "assassination" when it only does a 4% dent to the mobs total hps. I duoed a named while questing with a 50 warlock friend the other day. Aside from the fact that he ended up tanking better than me, he laughed when he saw my assassinate/condeming blade damage. We waited 10 minutes for that?!?

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Old 04-10-2005, 02:51 PM   #35
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Ah, /sigh... well sorry about this double post but I just read Moorgards scout post. I hope our assassin community will manage to define ourselves against being grouped in with all "scouts". We are the one scout class that has none of the utility of other scouts.

He mentions the lesser need for a patch for us due to our pseudo ability to tank and provide utility.

Assassins have the fewest non-positional attacks by far. Without exploiting using the now non-existant eolorns/vanish exploit, we have 3 readily available positional attacks (cripple and lingering blow have far too long refresh timers to be useful as "tanking" abilities) and our dps drops to nearly nothing when tanking w/o our stealth/positional attacks. Yes, I have been in several all scout (+healer) groups. Brigands, swashes, dirges all do a moderately good job tanking and keeping agro, albeit the only way these groups can survive is with very high amts of dps, and you must have the capability of holding agro against this dps. The irony is that the one way I can taunt, is only if I'm not tanking. Catch22, kinda blows our usefulness as a situational tank out the door.  I'm not a tank, I chose a class with no true taunts and 3 evades + attacks that lower my defense in exchange for my dps.

As far as utility goes. Well thats what a lot of these previous posts describe. We have little to none over most other classes.

Wizards and Warlocks recieved a priority patch due to the fact that they are primarily dps and were suffering because they could not do it well giving them no advantage or allure over other classes. The summoner patch was treated as separate and is still on the way. Looks like we, however, were clumped in with the general scout section and titled as utlitiy vs pure dps. Sadly none of the points mentioned in Moorgards post seemed to apply to our specific class and applied only to other scouts.

Well the last point I suppose is where he states the following (I was trying hard to avoid directly quoting him, I know how people can knit-pick and twist words but I was trying as best I could to keep the true intent of his statement):


Moorgard wrote:

Think of what balance literally means: it's weighing various factors against each other. While there is some balance at the archetype level, it is refined further at each class and subclass. Sorcerers give up most of their defense for high offense, whereas enchanters are giving up defense for a combination of damage and crowd control. Bards don't have as much personal DPS as other scouts, but they have the greatest potential to increase the damage output of others. Every class should have some little nuances like this that differentiate them. The trouble is, even players of that class won't agree on what they want that uniqueness to be.

I agree with most of this statement strongly, but from the posts that I've read by various assassins, I think our class is the one class who is unified on what we want our uniqueness to be. DPS plain and simple. We have given up some of our defense, most of our non-positional offense, and basically all utility but are balanced alongside other classes that share only in our strengths and not our weaknesses.

"Every class should have some little nuances like this that differentiate them." - This is all I'm asking for...

Here's a link to the post if you haven't read it.

 http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=39875&view=by_date_ascending&page=6

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Old 04-13-2005, 04:28 AM   #36
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Assassins should be the top DPS scout class, or there is no reason for the class at all.
Of course they will never be as cool as Necro's....but then who else really is?

 
Good point.
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:36 PM   #37
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I have some ideas for fixing it, lemme know what you think.

A.) Out and out Assassins should arguably be able to deal out the single most devastating one shot kill on a single target in the game bar none. Increase the damage on cond blade and considerably on assassins blade. Decrease the reuse timers a little but not much, if u change both things too drastically things would swing too far the other way.

B.) Make all scouts dmg potential per swing have a smaller margin on the higher end just because were scouts.. for example.. if a sword did 10-25 damage, in the hands of a warr it would do just that, in a scouts hands it miht do 18-25. This would help increase a scouts dps over a dual wielding tanks without too much fuss and makes perfect sense in the end, scouts are more accurate and can hurt you more with the same weapon than a warrior.

C.) Give us a self buff, say 3 min on a 5 min reuse that allows us to target the MT and all aggro gained by us goes to the MT or whoever we place that buff on. This gives us a desired ability by helping the tank maintain aggro but without making us overpowered, and it lowers our aggro in group all in one neat little package.

D.) Assassins and Rangers should be bar-none the best at getting around un-noticed. Not only should all our upper level stalk skills be movement penalty free, I think Disappear at lvl 50 should be usable like feign death, u get aggro get far enough away, and disappear, losing all aggro instantly. I mean we are by description the masters of stealth, why shouldnt we be able to fade away into the shadows to get out of danger.

E.) Purely an idea here but I think all scouts at around 48+ should receive a reconointer type skill that flips any ho to it's most rare form 100% of the time with a say.. 10 min re-use timer, just an idea dunno what do you think of this one?

 

Anyway those are my feelings on what I think would really fix our class, make us more desired to group with, and more fun to play, but while not overpowering us.

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Old 04-15-2005, 05:13 PM   #38
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A) Let Assassinate slay an enemy, up to your own lvl, outright as stated. I dont't care about the timer, make it a 12h timer, I don't care ^^. But it would serve nicely as a gimmick class defining ability, not usable on epic mobs, or group x 2+ should be fair enough. B) Can't say that makes really sense to me. C) While it would be certainly useful I can not see any valid point in such an ability. Wouldn't want that one. D) The basic idea of fleeing is acomplished by evac and murderous flight, as per now, I think we have enough at this point, as we have now. E) I don't see any valid reason to play around with the HO more as scouts can do anyway.. since the rare wheels include several very strong effects I very much doubt it that your suggestion is valid. The way I see it the predator subclass of the scout surrenders other utility like buffs and groupinvis for raw damage, in game terms that should either be high damage spikes or dps over time. And basically that is what I think the predator subclasses lack dramatically. What I would like to see is an ability called Bounty at lvl 40, 15 min reuse timer, that can be cast on a single mob and drastically increases damage dealt to that mob. We are there to slay one target, not to massmurder whole dungeons. The main problem of rangers/assassins is their reputation .. its no secret that we, for every single desireable purpose we might fulfill, have no advantage over another alternative.. on top of that we lack useful abilities to other. What is needed, at least in my opinion, is a change that also alters the reputation of our class from its current state to a clear post-patch state. Something that defines a role for us, something that make people prefer an assassin for. I would happyly settle for the role to vanquish one single target, and so with a bounty-like ability.
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:36 PM   #39
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sonobe wrote:
ooreo, you hit the nail on the head.
 
I am a level 50 assassin with all 40-50 skills adept3 or master1 save 3 useless skills.  I have the best gear of any assassin on my server with Prismatic/Claw combo.  Guess what, if there are 25 people that show up for a raid, I am usually the one asked to sit out.
 
Total BS, I want an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] upgrade Sony.  NOW!



Man. You must suck *$%#&! if you are asked to sit out on a 24 group raid. LOL

I always wanted to say that to a so call "top" flight assassin who has it all.

 

 

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Old 04-16-2005, 01:49 AM   #40
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scivias wrote:A) Let Assassinate slay an enemy, up to your own lvl, outright as stated. I dont't care about the timer, make it a 12h timer, I don't care ^^. But it would serve nicely as a gimmick class defining ability, not usable on epic mobs, or group x 2+ should be fair enough.

Sorry, that ability was given to brawlers at level 35 on a 5 minute reuse timer. =(
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:41 AM   #41
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Thanatos06 wrote:


sonobe wrote:
ooreo, you hit the nail on the head.
 
I am a level 50 assassin with all 40-50 skills adept3 or master1 save 3 useless skills.  I have the best gear of any assassin on my server with Prismatic/Claw combo.  Guess what, if there are 25 people that show up for a raid, I am usually the one asked to sit out.
 
Total BS, I want an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] upgrade Sony.  NOW!



Man. You must suck *$%#&! if you are asked to sit out on a 24 group raid. LOL

I always wanted to say that to a so call "top" flight assassin who has it all.


Which would you take on a raid?  A fighter that can use crush and essentially outdamage anyone on most raids or take an assassin that has no use other than dps but can't use over half their damage arts because the mob is pierce resistant.   From a raid leaders perspective its a pretty simple solution take the fighter over the assassin.  It has nothing to do with skill or equipment since the fighter can hit for full and use all their skills and far outdamage the restricted assassin.  Then if you have multiple assassins the issue compounds even more due to stacking issues.
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Old 04-16-2005, 09:07 AM   #42
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khalysta wrote:


Thanatos06 wrote:


sonobe wrote:
ooreo, you hit the nail on the head.
 
I am a level 50 assassin with all 40-50 skills adept3 or master1 save 3 useless skills.  I have the best gear of any assassin on my server with Prismatic/Claw combo.  Guess what, if there are 25 people that show up for a raid, I am usually the one asked to sit out.
 
Total BS, I want an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] upgrade Sony.  NOW!



Man. You must suck *$%#&! if you are asked to sit out on a 24 group raid. LOL

I always wanted to say that to a so call "top" flight assassin who has it all.


Which would you take on a raid?  A fighter that can use crush and essentially outdamage anyone on most raids or take an assassin that has no use other than dps but can't use over half their damage arts because the mob is pierce resistant.   From a raid leaders perspective its a pretty simple solution take the fighter over the assassin.  It has nothing to do with skill or equipment since the fighter can hit for full and use all their skills and far outdamage the restricted assassin.  Then if you have multiple assassins the issue compounds even more due to stacking issues.


This is nothing new to anyone who plays this class. Assassins are pretty much worthless in comparison to other fighter classes in regards to dps. I laugh at all top flight Assassins now because they can't do squat in comparison to zerkers, brusiers, monks, and so forth.

My comment was a rib to the guy's statement of sitting out. Enjoy it or hate it. I know I do.

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Old 04-16-2005, 11:04 AM   #43
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Ok first. there are some epic mobs out there that are immune to crushing and great against peirce so it kinda evens out. i guess. w/e though on that.
 
2nd. On mobs where peircing does work well, i personally am able to do more damage then the tank can hold aggro for...... tank has all adept 3 taunts of course and the best 1hs weapon pairs with best shield w/e. DO anyone else have that problem?
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Old 04-16-2005, 04:54 PM   #44
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Thanatos06 wrote:

khalysta wrote:

Thanatos06 wrote:

sonobe wrote:
ooreo, you hit the nail on the head.
I am a level 50 assassin with all 40-50 skills adept3 or master1 save 3 useless skills. I have the best gear of any assassin on my server with Prismatic/Claw combo. Guess what, if there are 25 people that show up for a raid, I am usually the one asked to sit out.
Total BS, I want an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] upgrade Sony. NOW!

Man. You must suck *$%#&! if you are asked to sit out on a 24 group raid. LOL

I always wanted to say that to a so call "top" flight assassin who has it all.


Which would you take on a raid? A fighter that can use crush and essentially outdamage anyone on most raids or take an assassin that has no use other than dps but can't use over half their damage arts because the mob is pierce resistant. From a raid leaders perspective its a pretty simple solution take the fighter over the assassin. It has nothing to do with skill or equipment since the fighter can hit for full and use all their skills and far outdamage the restricted assassin. Then if you have multiple assassins the issue compounds even more due to stacking issues.

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Old 04-16-2005, 07:12 PM   #45
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>Ok first. there are some epic mobs out there that are immune to crushing and great against peirce so it kinda evens out. i guess. w/e though on that Thats right, but you forget that most fighter classes are not limited in their damage type, like assassins are, so even if someone is great against piercing, a fighter subtype can do that damage too, and still better then an assassin.
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Old 04-16-2005, 07:28 PM   #46
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shebalseki wrote:
Ok first. there are some epic mobs out there that are immune to crushing and great against peirce so it kinda evens out. i guess. w/e though on that.
 
2nd. On mobs where peircing does work well, i personally am able to do more damage then the tank can hold aggro for...... tank has all adept 3 taunts of course and the best 1hs weapon pairs with best shield w/e. DO anyone else have that problem?



Yes there are some crushing immune mobs but they are far rarer than piercing immune mobs.  Even when you do face a crushing immune mob though the brawlers and berserkers have no problem switching weapons to a pierce or slash depending on what works best.  On a mob like asphyxia, darathar or vazgok crushing is far superior in the long run but we have no crush weapons to fall back on.  A fighters melee is far superior to ours which comes highly from skills so if we can't use our full skillset then our raid value drops. 

Things that would help with raids and dps in general is making cripple far faster refresh.  This is 3 minute refresh and debuffs 12 defense which soon will be worthless.  Punch blade says it lowers defense by 34 so why cripple is so long beats me.  Also infected wound moving to weapon type would be a nice boost since it also has a slash/poison debuff portion to it which would make it more useful all around.  Garrote and paralyzing strike would be nice skills to have on raids too.   The problem with those skills though is the epic encounters block their secondary effects when they should allow damage to go through and ignore things like root/stifle.

When it comes to aggro I usually don't have a problem.  I use surveil a lot which will keep lowereing my hate by a decent amount.  The only people who consistantly get aggro on our raids are the brawlers, zerkers and the swash who thinks he gets a ton extra dps by taunting(/boggle).

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Old 04-16-2005, 08:47 PM   #47
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khalysta wrote:

and the swash who thinks he gets a ton extra dps by taunting(/boggle).


Aha! Rogue hate! SMILEY
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Old 04-16-2005, 09:07 PM   #48
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Putka wrote:


khalysta wrote:

and the swash who thinks he gets a ton extra dps by taunting(/boggle).


Aha! Rogue hate! SMILEY

Maybe if he Acts like a fighter he will do more damage? :o
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Old 04-16-2005, 09:12 PM   #49
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poor [Removed for Content].. he's just desperate to outDPS Khalysta :smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by Putka on 04-16-2005 10:13 AM

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Old 04-17-2005, 01:57 AM   #50
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Sarevhok wrote:

Thanatos06 wrote:

khalysta wrote:

Thanatos06 wrote:

sonobe wrote:
ooreo, you hit the nail on the head.
I am a level 50 assassin with all 40-50 skills adept3 or master1 save 3 useless skills. I have the best gear of any assassin on my server with Prismatic/Claw combo. Guess what, if there are 25 people that show up for a raid, I am usually the one asked to sit out.
Total BS, I want an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] upgrade Sony. NOW!

Man. You must suck *$%#&! if you are asked to sit out on a 24 group raid. LOL

I always wanted to say that to a so call "top" flight assassin who has it all.


Which would you take on a raid? A fighter that can use crush and essentially outdamage anyone on most raids or take an assassin that has no use other than dps but can't use over half their damage arts because the mob is pierce resistant. From a raid leaders perspective its a pretty simple solution take the fighter over the assassin. It has nothing to do with skill or equipment since the fighter can hit for full and use all their skills and far outdamage the restricted assassin. Then if you have multiple assassins the issue compounds even more due to stacking issues.
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How so original. Who is the troll now? Can you even try better?
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:15 PM   #51
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Old 04-19-2005, 11:01 AM   #52
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Current State of Level 50 Assassin: uber mob checker.  We're so useless in raids, we've got nothing better to do than to check if other mobs are up.  Personally, I'm wating for the Kunark-Rogue-Upgrade.  Remember when Rogues sucked so badly?  Then came Double Backstab and Ragebringer SMILEY.  Hey, I don't mind getting the big FU in balance if we get crazy uberfied in the first expansion.
 
WTB no-limit raid amount.  At least, if I played a useless class, I could still be invited to a raid out of pity.  Now, not only do I know that my class sux, but if other classes are available, scouts will be asked to sit out.
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Old 04-19-2005, 06:03 PM   #53
TinckTrink

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 33
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50 Assassin here.  I could not agree more with the frustration of the issues stated.

The reuse timers given to Sorc's and Brawlers are such a slap in the face, coupled with the extreme imbalance of tanks v scouts, I've finally come to the conclusion that SOE does not have the desire to provide the game I thought they intended to deliver.

While its true they did deliver on several issues that EQ1 had, they don't even seem to comprehend the issue of class balance.  The issue isn't about being the best at anything, the most desired or whatever.  The issue is that the game boils down to tanking, healing, dps and utility.  Guardians, Clerics, Sorcs/Brawlers and Chanters.

Even considering a 2nd tier class like Pally, SK, Fury, Warden.  They all have at least one utility that directly aids the x4 raid.  Assassin's have zero utility that helps in a raid or even a group, yet our dps is below every other dps class and tank class? 
 
It just seems so negligent. 
 
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