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Old 08-09-2008, 10:17 PM   #1
liveja

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I'm playing my 36 Wizzie, looking for gear upgrades. I'm searching through the jewelry, & I see a whole bunch of items that have very nice +WIS bonuses that also have +X to Spells & Heals, & then several others with very nice +INT bonuses that have +X to Heals only.

What gives with this?

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Old 08-12-2008, 02:15 AM   #2
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Int is important to healer classes too.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:55 AM   #3
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Sassinak wrote:
Int is important to healer classes too.

That would only be a realivent statement if items with int and +healing were avery small minority. Since this is not the case, your staement is pointless.

If a healer needs int, they are looking for more DPS, if they want more DPS, they get mage items. Having items that are only useful for a healer that wants to both heal a little better and DPS a little better is a waste, as the target audiance for such items is about 1/12th of the audiance of a int/+spell damage items, and about 1/6th the size of a wis/power/+heal item.

I am considering amking a list of items with in appropriate +damage/heal modifiers (such as brawler only gloves with +spell damage) and either post them or /feedback them. Problem is, its a lot of work, and I am short on time for the next few months.

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Old 08-12-2008, 09:53 AM   #4
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Sassinak wrote:
Int is important to healer classes too.

That's nice, but +spelldamage is important to Wizzies, sooooo why am I seeing what seems like so many MORE items that have +INT & +heal?

It's not balanced, is my point.

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Old 08-12-2008, 10:57 AM   #5
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look at the treasured trash in rok. you know, the stuff that has been created by a random item generator.

take x number of stats, y number of effects and z amount of resists, then mix it up and apply to item.

they most definitly used the same mechanics when revamping the lowbie loot.

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Old 08-12-2008, 03:53 PM   #6
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Maybe the guy designing the jewerly has Fury.  Needs the heals and DPS.Seems to be the only way things get done is if the dev has that class.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:12 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:
Maybe the guy designing the jewerly has Fury. Needs the heals and DPS.Seems to be the only way things get done is if the dev has that class.
I wouldn't doubt that Fyreflyte has a fury with his obcession with itemizing leather healer loot.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:03 PM   #8
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Conjuror and Troubador. And my only obsession, when it comes to loot, is putting negative effects on it SMILEY
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:05 PM   #9
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Fyreflyte wrote:
And my only obsession, when it comes to loot, is putting negative effects on it SMILEY

So I've noticed SMILEY

But more seriously, could you guys maybe tweak things, just a little bit? Or do you think there's already more than enough jewelry to make us Wizzies happy?

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Old 08-12-2008, 10:09 PM   #10
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I upgraded over 15,000 items. I'm sure you can find something you can use.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:11 PM   #11
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Fyreflyte wrote:
I upgraded over 15,000 items. I'm sure you can find something you can use.

SMILEY

The perfect voice of neutrality SMILEY

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Old 08-12-2008, 10:22 PM   #12
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You're complaining about items which are now roughly 3x better than they've ever been since the game's inception, during which time several million characters have somehow managed to make it through the lower levels. Then, without any empirical evidence, you're postulating that more of them have randomly been given +healing than +damage (I find this highly unlikely), and asking me to spend my time tuning these by hand, rather than working on new content or fixing item-breaking bugs.Had I had time, I'd have loved to have written a "smarter" algorithm to use for the item update. As it was, I tuned hundreds of items by hand, removing such things as +healing on monk weapons and the like. The fact that a number of int-heavy items ended up with +damage does not bother me much, since I know that the items are still way better than they were before the revamp, and there are a number of classes that actually prefer those stats.I also know for a fact that a large number of items received int and +spelldmg. Quite a few that received disruption skill as well. I'm sure if you keep looking, you'll find them =)Edited for grammar.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:54 PM   #13
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:24 AM   #14
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Up until the gear revamp just finding good INT gear on the broker for a low level toon was a challenge (on my server). I bet the only reason you're seeing +heal INT gear now is because that's just because none of the clothies are interested in it. If that gear was +spell dmg, I'd hazard the guess that you wouldn't have even seen that stuff listed either.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:53 AM   #15
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Fyreflyte wrote:
You're complaining
Everything after your first response was teasing, Fyre, so relax: I didn't & don't expect you to scurry out & jump thru hoops just for me.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:11 AM   #16
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Fyreflyte wrote:
You're complaining about items which are now roughly 3x better than they've ever been since the game's inception, during which time several million characters have somehow managed to make it through the lower levels. Then, without any empirical evidence, you're postulating that more of them have randomly been given +healing than +damage (I find this highly unlikely), and asking me to spend my time tuning these by hand, rather than working on new content or fixing item-breaking bugs.

Please don't take my feedback the wrong way, but 3x better than 0 is still 0. The original items themselves had to be fixed before the update took place. There are still many many fabled CLOTH items that do not have wis, int or Sta... the 3 main stats of the casters... the ONLY users of cloth. Want an example?

Shadow's Weave - level 30 Fabled Cloth. 18 Str, 22 Agi, ... and 10 spell damage.

another?

Robe of the Beguiler - Level 30 Fabled Cloth, 12 Str, 22 Agi, ... and 10 spell damage.

More?

Firesilk Blouse of Tenacity - Level 15 Fabled Cloth, 10 Str, 16Agi, ... and 5 spell damage

How about..

Headband of the Advisor - Level 34 Fabled Cloth, 12 str, 6 sta, 2 agi no other bonus cept resists...

two more for good measure?

Velvet Mitts - Level 43 Fabled Cloth, 18 Wis, 30 Agi, .... and 15 spell and heal amount....

Velvet Slippers - Level 43 Fabled Cloth, 18 Sta, 30 Agi, ... and 20 COMBAT art damage???

 Fabled cloth items with Str and Agi... You do realize that those items are the some if not the cheapest fabled armor in the game because no one uses them. I gave one to my alts just for the looks. True, I do prefer that you fix the actual bugs in the game (which fortunately I haven't run into many) and work on overall balance, but do not state we are "postulating that more of them have RANDOMLY been given..." because we know that the case is that the items were randomly assigned what to increase based on what type of armor (cloth, leather, chain, plate) and its existing stats. So Cloth gets +spell damage, disruption blah blah blah, but doesn't really get fixed stat wise... the stats just grow by a percentage based on its original stats and its quality (treasured, legedary, fabled). Correct me if I am wrong SMILEY

Could you please beg for some time to help fix these situation at least just for the cloth items. Just do a search for str and agi on cloth and change them respectively to int, and wis... that will fix soooo much and make many many casters happy. Thanks ^_^

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Old 08-13-2008, 11:43 AM   #17
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Why do you even look at low-lvl fabled? You got awesome sets of mastercrafted armor + some very nice drops that is more then enough to lvl. (it was perfectly possible to lvl before items upgrade, it just got even easier to do).  

You should say "Thank you Fyreflyte for even considering items upgrade" because there is no reason for this to happen, other then Fyreflyte's initiative (and purpose of this initiative is to help you gain lvls).

Not happy with some items? bad for you.  

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Old 08-13-2008, 12:26 PM   #18
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Freliant wrote:
Fyreflyte wrote:
You're complaining about items which are now roughly 3x better than they've ever been since the game's inception, during which time several million characters have somehow managed to make it through the lower levels. Then, without any empirical evidence, you're postulating that more of them have randomly been given +healing than +damage (I find this highly unlikely), and asking me to spend my time tuning these by hand, rather than working on new content or fixing item-breaking bugs.

Please don't take my feedback the wrong way, but 3x better than 0 is still 0. The original items themselves had to be fixed before the update took place. There are still many many fabled CLOTH items that do not have wis, int or Sta... the 3 main stats of the casters... the ONLY users of cloth. Want an example?

Shadow's Weave - level 30 Fabled Cloth. 18 Str, 22 Agi, ... and 10 spell damage.

another?

Robe of the Beguiler - Level 30 Fabled Cloth, 12 Str, 22 Agi, ... and 10 spell damage.

More?

Firesilk Blouse of Tenacity - Level 15 Fabled Cloth, 10 Str, 16Agi, ... and 5 spell damage

How about..

Headband of the Advisor - Level 34 Fabled Cloth, 12 str, 6 sta, 2 agi no other bonus cept resists...

two more for good measure?

Velvet Mitts - Level 43 Fabled Cloth, 18 Wis, 30 Agi, .... and 15 spell and heal amount....

Velvet Slippers - Level 43 Fabled Cloth, 18 Sta, 30 Agi, ... and 20 COMBAT art damage???

Fabled cloth items with Str and Agi... You do realize that those items are the some if not the cheapest fabled armor in the game because no one uses them. I gave one to my alts just for the looks. True, I do prefer that you fix the actual bugs in the game (which fortunately I haven't run into many) and work on overall balance, but do not state we are "postulating that more of them have RANDOMLY been given..." because we know that the case is that the items were randomly assigned what to increase based on what type of armor (cloth, leather, chain, plate) and its existing stats. So Cloth gets +spell damage, disruption blah blah blah, but doesn't really get fixed stat wise... the stats just grow by a percentage based on its original stats and its quality (treasured, legedary, fabled). Correct me if I am wrong SMILEY

Could you please beg for some time to help fix these situation at least just for the cloth items. Just do a search for str and agi on cloth and change them respectively to int, and wis... that will fix soooo much and make many many casters happy. Thanks ^_^

Do some of those things not make sense? Sure, but that exists at every level TBH. No one can ague that, but the amount of time spent at those levels, for a majority of the player base, doesn't seem to dictate a large pool of time be devoted to altering those items.
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:52 PM   #19
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Freliant wrote:
Fyreflyte wrote:
You're complaining about items which are now roughly 3x better than they've ever been since the game's inception, during which time several million characters have somehow managed to make it through the lower levels. Then, without any empirical evidence, you're postulating that more of them have randomly been given +healing than +damage (I find this highly unlikely), and asking me to spend my time tuning these by hand, rather than working on new content or fixing item-breaking bugs.

Please don't take my feedback the wrong way, but 3x better than 0 is still 0. The original items themselves had to be fixed before the update took place. There are still many many fabled CLOTH items that do not have wis, int or Sta... the 3 main stats of the casters... the ONLY users of cloth. Want an example?

Shadow's Weave - level 30 Fabled Cloth. 18 Str, 22 Agi, ... and 10 spell damage.

another?

Robe of the Beguiler - Level 30 Fabled Cloth, 12 Str, 22 Agi, ... and 10 spell damage.

More?

Firesilk Blouse of Tenacity - Level 15 Fabled Cloth, 10 Str, 16Agi, ... and 5 spell damage

How about..

Headband of the Advisor - Level 34 Fabled Cloth, 12 str, 6 sta, 2 agi no other bonus cept resists...

two more for good measure?

Velvet Mitts - Level 43 Fabled Cloth, 18 Wis, 30 Agi, .... and 15 spell and heal amount....

Velvet Slippers - Level 43 Fabled Cloth, 18 Sta, 30 Agi, ... and 20 COMBAT art damage???

 Fabled cloth items with Str and Agi... You do realize that those items are the some if not the cheapest fabled armor in the game because no one uses them. I gave one to my alts just for the looks. True, I do prefer that you fix the actual bugs in the game (which fortunately I haven't run into many) and work on overall balance, but do not state we are "postulating that more of them have RANDOMLY been given..." because we know that the case is that the items were randomly assigned what to increase based on what type of armor (cloth, leather, chain, plate) and its existing stats. So Cloth gets +spell damage, disruption blah blah blah, but doesn't really get fixed stat wise... the stats just grow by a percentage based on its original stats and its quality (treasured, legedary, fabled). Correct me if I am wrong SMILEY

Could you please beg for some time to help fix these situation at least just for the cloth items. Just do a search for str and agi on cloth and change them respectively to int, and wis... that will fix soooo much and make many many casters happy. Thanks ^_^

Understanding those stats requires understanding two things.First, when the game launched, all items for the same slot had the same stats (with a literal handful of exceptions.)  Every chest piece--whether cloth, leather, chain, or plate, handcrafted through fabled--had STR and AGI and nothing else.  This was part of the "game balance" in the original, pre-expansions game.  (Stat caps were a lot lower then, too, so having today's items at launch would have capped everyone in their prime stat by the time had a full set of the previous tier's treasured gear, most likely.)Second, as you surmised, Fyreflyte didn't change the stats on any items with his 15,000-item-updating script.  He boosted some stats and added some skill bonuses or damage/healing effects.  Anything that started out with AGI and WIS ended up with AGI and WIS.The +combat arts on the cloth armor, yeah, that's a /bug.  Fyreflyte cleaned up some (most?) of those items when this was on test and I was raising holy heck about it, but he obviously didn't catch them all.And, really, the small percentage of players who are in T8 raiding guilds seem to get a disproportionate share of itemization's time already... I don't thing a full Fabled-item revamp for T2 through T5 for the 19 people worldwide that might actually be honestly raiding those zones is a worthwhile use of anyone's time. (And yes, I know not all the items you listed are from actual raid  targets.)Just look at those few items as being the ones for STR-AA-line melee enchanters. SMILEY   (And, really, my mages want to have a couple +STR items available... having 15 STR at level 25 and barely being able to carry 6 backpacks, much less their contents, is unfun.)
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:58 PM   #20
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I'd suggest just going with Mastercrafted gear for your wizard. Domino knows what she's doing.
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Old 08-13-2008, 06:14 PM   #21
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I agree with the ones saying there are a ton of items, so why worry about a few weird ones?  I mean, even T8 has its odd items even in the legendary teir like Fur Lined Slippers with +25 INT, and +10 heal,  nobody really complains about it because there are so many items it's easier to just find something that you WOULD want to equip then trying to get a bunch of other items changed.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:16 AM   #22
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Fyreflyte wrote:
Conjuror and Troubador. And my only obsession, when it comes to loot, is putting negative effects on it SMILEY

LOL

Fyreflyte, please keep things as interesting as possible when revising the existing items and creating new items. I want choices, hard choices when it comes to equiping my characters. Equipment choices and trade-offs are good for the game and make things interesting. Your doing just fine.

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Old 08-20-2008, 06:10 AM   #23
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I did notice an overload of +heal items on my new character, but given that I now have a level 53 scout in gear with significant amounts of STR, INT and CA damage actually equipping items from DoF I really can't complain at all. And I used the new heritage weapons which are sexytime. Without any further change the low level loot revamp was a big success and a long time coming.
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