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Old 06-01-2012, 08:36 PM   #91
ratbast

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i think this is brilliant and creative. i bet there are lots of players out there who will use and enjoy this feature. im not one of them, privacy & paranoia reasons, but im happy for those who will use it. i love to see the advance of tech, which is what this attempts. personally i would have framed it as a lucky sneak peek at eqnext feature, instead of letting cynical customers see that it is and call you out on it for not being upfront. could even have had an ingame poll about if players wanted to test it out. then they get buy-in, and there is chance they wont get it, making it feel more exclusive for them. plus illusion of choice. i guess that would be good pr for players, but bad pr method for soe releasing new tech, letting players decide when its revealed. doesnt make a company look godlike powerful (although it does make it look responsive to feedback), and appearance that customers are more important than outside news outlets for release timeline. could go either way.
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:47 PM   #92
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

I know a lot of you gave SOE the benefit of the doubt that we are testing this for EQ3 but the reality is, they would have to pretty much rewrite it to make it work with the new game engine so yeah... not very realistic.  At best this is a stupid feature and we are doing a marketing test to see if players will use it.

Also, yeah this is taking up precious dev time.  A lot of devs have been moved to EQ3 and the spots in EQ2 haven't been filled as far as I know so I doubt there is the specialized talent that we are used to and each dev now has multiple responsibilities.

Who said anything about the engine? They can test how it's recieved here and see if they want to waste time developing it on eqnext..

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Old 06-01-2012, 09:04 PM   #93
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I am sure this will be implimented as well (and with as much care, hype, and follow through) as the shader 3.0 project. 

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Old 06-01-2012, 09:19 PM   #94
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What a giant waste of bandwidth and development time SMILEY

This isn't going to draw anyone new in, and it's not going to be a feature that keeps long term players drawn into the game. Why is EQ2 slowly going from grand adventure and challenge to a funsy kids game again?

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Old 06-01-2012, 09:57 PM   #95
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Augmented reality is actually more simple to get a hang of with the right folks behind the wheel, so these things, at least in my shop are about a week in development with one person.  I think its a cool idea in an mmo, impressed even by the amount of gestures the "demo" showed.  

But does that mean in raid every time i take a drink of beer i have to get out of camera range?! the Pain!!!

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Old 06-01-2012, 10:40 PM   #96
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Aw, this is the big announcement? So disappointing. The arena for such a thing seems miniscule. For whatever it's worth, my vote is that you don't spend any more of your budget on similar features. Don't need SOEmote to get this feeling across. =(
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:08 AM   #97
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As I posted in the announcement thread.  Great to see innovation that will help the entire genre. 

Now, I imagine SJ is thinking about patenting the technology and of course obtaining royalties from competitors who might want to 'lease' it even if the EQ2 community doesn't have 45% adoption rate.  Talent, profits, and subscriptions aren't always tied together as this shows.

Technically I do wonder what recommended resolution, camera angle/focus/lighting work well with it and of course how it turns off if the person leaves their computer.  Do I have to sit up straight or can I lean back? What camera would the EQ2 team recommend?  I hope they have all this ironed out when it slides out.  If there was a way to build in body emotes without pressing hotbar icons or typing commands that would be slick too.

Edit:

Although I applaud this organic innovation I am surpirsed that the business director for EQ2 hasn't shot for lower hanging fruit. Recycling of heroic/raid zones as prestige housing is ok but I think many of the minigames should be 'app'-fied.

LON, DM, Housing, you name it. There's lots of little microgames in this game that I might play if I didn't have to sit at a computer chair to do so. If comixology has a 'record' of what I bought to enable me access digitally I don't see why a similar SOE app for 'those things' couldn't also toggle on SOE's ends. I went to a conference last week and you don't want to know how many >45 yr olds were playing card games on their $700 Ipads in the airport.

SJ is uncharacteristically leaving money on the table although maybe EQN is making less intense casual content than even DM, LON, or current housing and he doesn't want to blow EQN's launch by offering subgames that are too complex and non-unified branding in app-space. 

If that is true then he's making the right decision.

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Old 06-02-2012, 12:54 AM   #98
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S_M_I_T_E wrote:

As I posted in the announcement thread.  Great to see innovation that will help the entire genre. 

Now, I imagine SJ is thinking about patenting the technology and of course obtaining royalties from competitors who might want to 'lease' it even if the EQ2 community doesn't have 45% adoption rate.  Talent, profits, and subscriptions aren't always tied together as this shows.

Technically I do wonder what recommended resolution, camera angle/focus/lighting work well with it and of course how it turns off if the person leaves their computer.  Do I have to sit up straight or can I lean back? What camera would the EQ2 team recommend?  I hope they have all this ironed out when it slides out.  If there was a way to build in body emotes without pressing hotbar icons or typing commands that would be slick too.

Edit:

Although I applaud this organic innovation

Huh?

This is no innovation by SoE. The technology is old its just being applied to MMOs. Also, SoE is using a 3rd party company to port this to EQ2. From the PC Gamer article:

 

PCG: Has this technology been used in anything I might recognize?

RG: Prior to Live Driver—the technology used in EQ2—our professional facial animation technology, Faceware… was used in more than 40 AAA gaming titles, including Red Dead Redemption, GTA IV, Assassin’s Creed, Max Payne and more.

So there is no patenting the tech or getting royalties. In fact, this is probably costing SoE money to license.

Organic innovation? LOL. That's rich.

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Old 06-02-2012, 01:15 AM   #99
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convict wrote:

[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

I know a lot of you gave SOE the benefit of the doubt that we are testing this for EQ3 but the reality is, they would have to pretty much rewrite it to make it work with the new game engine so yeah... not very realistic.  At best this is a stupid feature and we are doing a marketing test to see if players will use it.

Also, yeah this is taking up precious dev time.  A lot of devs have been moved to EQ3 and the spots in EQ2 haven't been filled as far as I know so I doubt there is the specialized talent that we are used to and each dev now has multiple responsibilities.

Who said anything about the engine? They can test how it's recieved here and see if they want to waste time developing it on eqnext..

They don't need a crystal ball to see how it would be received on this forum.  It would be received like anything else is received which isn't a new top level adventuring zone or a new way of powerleveling.  A few people will like it and the rest will hate it.  Because it isn't a new zone and they're "waiting time on that instead of fixing bugs" (TM)  And a new zone will be hated after about a week with prophacies of doom and gloom for SoE.

If I were SoE I'd determine how people like it by quietly monitoring how many use it in game.

Sure they'll try it out in an existing game before putting it in a new one.  What does that have to do with it?  It's still in the game.  Use it or not.  It's up to you.  I'll almost certainly use the voice fonts.  Not sure about the emote thingie.

I"m betting it'll get used.

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Old 06-02-2012, 02:02 AM   #100
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Literally almost anything SOE announces is bound to get a lot of sarcasm and hate, no matter what it'll end up to be. Even the announcement about price drop. True story =)

And this is rather a surprise for me. I mean, it may not be impressive for most of you, but how many of you saw it coming?

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Old 06-02-2012, 02:27 AM   #101
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Gravy wrote:

S_M_I_T_E wrote:

As I posted in the announcement thread.  Great to see innovation that will help the entire genre. 

Now, I imagine SJ is thinking about patenting the technology and of course obtaining royalties from competitors who might want to 'lease' it even if the EQ2 community doesn't have 45% adoption rate.  Talent, profits, and subscriptions aren't always tied together as this shows.

Technically I do wonder what recommended resolution, camera angle/focus/lighting work well with it and of course how it turns off if the person leaves their computer.  Do I have to sit up straight or can I lean back? What camera would the EQ2 team recommend?  I hope they have all this ironed out when it slides out.  If there was a way to build in body emotes without pressing hotbar icons or typing commands that would be slick too.

Edit:

Although I applaud this organic innovation

Huh?

This is no innovation by SoE. The technology is old its just being applied to MMOs. Also, SoE is using a 3rd party company to port this to EQ2. From the PC Gamer article:

 

PCG: Has this technology been used in anything I might recognize?

RG: Prior to Live Driver—the technology used in EQ2—our professional facial animation technology, Faceware… was used in more than 40 AAA gaming titles, including Red Dead Redemption, GTA IV, Assassin’s Creed, Max Payne and more.

So there is no patenting the tech or getting royalties. In fact, this is probably costing SoE money to license.

Organic innovation? LOL. That's rich.

 Smite is correct in my opinion. I don't think they meant the facial recognition itself was innovative but the application in an MMO where you are conversing in real time with other is indeed innovative. If not please point me to the MMO currently using it.  In your quote above it lists the technology used while developing those games, not being used by the end user in real time.  That is a big difference.

 Some people might not care or take offense to this feature because it's not another tier of gear or a list of bug fixes.  Scoff all you want but SoEmote and what it's leading to is a big deal in MMORPGs and goes to long way to add depth to the playing experience.

 I'm glad they are adding this feature and I have a feeling Smite is also right about full body emotes.  Why would SoE be so tight lipped about EQNext and then show something already hinted for EQNext in EQ2? I don't think they would.  Could my hopes of a standup, full body controlled MMO actually be coming true?

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Old 06-02-2012, 02:27 AM   #102
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Coffee_Hound wrote:

I meant with the facial tracking/matching too.  I've never seen anything like that in a MMORPG.   

Personally, I think the voice sounds annoying too...

Not in an MMO, no, but my Logitech webcam comes with that software (facial tracking and avatars slaved to it intended to stand in for the real webcam image). The expression tracking is... lackluster at best, and this is with software dedicated to the task. If you wear glasses or your face isn't strongly front-lit so the camera has good contrast the avatar ends up doing the weirdest things and generally looking like it's on drugs. Trying to shoehorn this in amongst all the other things the game has to do, and in software that's CPU-bound as it is and not able to take full advantage of multiple cores, and I can't see it beating the Logitech software.

Plus as a healer the only character whose face I regularly see is the tank, and half the time the mob's in the way so I can't even see that. And I can just see character's faces reacting to the players eating, drinking and leaning over to fiddle with ACT to fine-tune the timers, or gods help us when the guild leader's kids want to lean over his and his wife's shoulders to see what they're doing.

There is a style of design I call "wishful thinking engineering."  It starts with something like "pigs can fly if you feed them enough beans" and develops utopian plans such as like having everyone commute to work riding on personal pigs, and along the way ignores minor details such as the consequent rain of the non-gaseous byproducts. -- Vernon Schryver in n.a.n-a.e

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Old 06-02-2012, 03:00 AM   #103
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Interesting toy. I'll probably use it for messing around and screenshots.......

So FINALLY someone told Dave to get a haircut? Good; he looks so much better now.  That cut the dorkiness factor in half, and his presentation wasn't too bad (though WHY a froglok? Why not a humanoid race to give a more "common factor" look at the technology?"

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Old 06-02-2012, 03:18 AM   #104
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Interesting toy. I'll probably use it for messing around and screenshots.......

So FINALLY someone told Dave to get a haircut? Good; he looks so much better now.  That cut the dorkiness factor in half, and his presentation wasn't too bad (though WHY a froglok? Why not a humanoid race to give a more "common factor" look at the technology?"

I love frogloks, I'm probably one of the few people that will repeatedly hail a froglok NPC just to see their silly wide mouths yap, so seeing a froglok for this demo was insanely adorable.

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Old 06-02-2012, 03:26 AM   #105
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Malleria wrote:

Celline-Layonaire wrote:

Literally almost anything SOE announces is bound to get a lot of sarcasm and hate, no matter what it'll end up to be. Even the announcement about price drop. True story =)                                               And this is rather a surprise for me. I mean, it may not be impressive for most of you, but how many of you saw it coming?

Yea! Who cares if it's a complete waste of time and resources, as long as they didn't see it coming!

It's true that no matter what they announce, some will complain. That doesn't mean that those complaints aren't valid.

I don't care about this change. I won't make use of it. I hope that I'll have the option to not hear people with their stupid modded voices. I'll never see the facial nonsense. I hope it works well for those that care, and I hope it was money well spent for SJ and crew to implement. I can't imagine how it could be, but I'm hoping.

It's a cool idea. I will give them that...but I just don't see the long term benefits.

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Old 06-02-2012, 03:45 AM   #106
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And how in the world did I forget this?  It was in front of our faces for a whole year....

EverquestNext

Read the fourth paragraph.

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Old 06-02-2012, 04:18 AM   #107
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All I can say is thank god they didn't add full motion capture.

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Old 06-02-2012, 08:04 AM   #108
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One thing that makes me happy about this is that there might finally be a way to make it so that characters don't constantly frown. If there's anything that bugs me about the character models it's their constant frown.

Anyway, this looks pretty cool. Not something I'd necessarily use, but probably the best reason to use my web camera that I've seen yet.

As for the person who asked on the first page (the only page I've read) about people with webcams on their EQ2 PC's, well I have one for my desktop (which is usually off) and of course on my laptop, which also has EQ2 installed.

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Old 06-02-2012, 08:13 AM   #109
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At least SOE realizes that they will need state of the art technology for thier next mmo to overcome thier reputation.

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Old 06-02-2012, 08:26 AM   #110
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Hey now this could be amusing, just too bad it's only facial expression cause i'd defo love to see the raid leader that forgets his cam is on and starts picking his nose

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Old 06-02-2012, 08:38 AM   #111
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Hmm, they should make it full body detection and translate that to the game with the upcoming Kinect camera for PC.  Can you imagine the calories burned doing all the kill 10 rats quests?!?!  We could be on to a new fitness revolution here.

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Old 06-02-2012, 09:28 AM   #112
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SOEmote is this really really needed??? Come on now! I think there is plenty of other stuff that SOE could work on " Fixing " other than making ur character " Come Alive ".. I mean REALLY! Maybe its just me but I would rather see Issues Fixed than add something like this, (that to me is totally trash). Come on SOE doing something worth wild for a change.

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Old 06-02-2012, 09:45 AM   #113
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I think this is a fun idea, and I can name quite a few raiders/PvE'ers on a couple servers who have said at least once, "EQ2's emotes are seriously lacking."  *cough*  And one of them posted in this thread to complain.  

Who knows, this could probably attract more players into the fold and fix the population problem people complain about.  That would bring more money to SOE and help fund more resources to dedicate to CS tickets or maybe hire on a new developer or program team.

Then again if elements like this really cause some people to be so unhappy about their virtual lives, maybe they need to alt-tab into some homework or find another hobby or go out and meet real people or get to know the person they married or raise their kids.

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Old 06-02-2012, 10:03 AM   #114
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

And how in the world did I forget this?  It was in front of our faces for a whole year....

EverquestNext

Read the fourth paragraph.

Thanks for the link.  It looks like they are introducing technology from EQNext into EQ2 when they can.   That means that the time spent on it was mostly EQNext time.

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Old 06-02-2012, 12:46 PM   #115
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OK, maybe I missed this in the 8 pages of posting but...

How is this looking to apply to SOGA vs. original models.  I know the original models already have the ability for more complex facial experessions, but do the SOGA?  Are you applying this feature to both model sets?

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Old 06-02-2012, 12:47 PM   #116
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[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

*Please do not quote forum violations*

I'm not sure why we're taking so long to acknowledge they just don't give a darn about having a good raiding game anymore.  They've clearly decided to take a new path with EQ2, and its probably time for us end-game people to just move on.

Summer is coming...

Winter is coming.

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Old 06-02-2012, 02:06 PM   #117
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I will be using this feature to troll the hell out of my guild.  They will hate me even more and I will laugh.

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Old 06-02-2012, 02:22 PM   #118
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I think its a neat feature to any game where we interact with others and NPC’s…

The problem I see with this, as it is now the only way we’ll seen facial expressions if we are in the up close view but how many people use that view?

 I don’t, more because the line of sight is off for a lot of (races) characters. I’ve made comparisons and did a line of sight and saw my line of sight was looking at lower walls as if my characters eyes are located on my thighs or even lower stomach area.  Because of that issue I use outer view of my character which would make facial expressions hard to see. Fix the line of sight issue I would probably enjoy this much more.

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Old 06-02-2012, 02:50 PM   #119
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This would be amazing if it "created" faces for your character instead of live streamed it.

In-Combat Face animations. (I don't like the in combat DERPFACE.)

Out of Combat Face animations for /mood angry/none/happy.

Ect.

Now I can look MORE Like my Signiture... ALLL THE TIME!! WOOO!

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Old 06-02-2012, 03:44 PM   #120
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You guys don't realise HOW GOOD This update is.

It may not SOUND like much.

BUT THINK of what it could LEAD to?

You have to get the bigger picture here.

Now its just Expressions... later it could be faces... hair... mannerisms, make your own emotes.. ect.

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