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Old 06-01-2012, 05:28 AM   #31
DamselInDistress

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shots01 wrote:

You sir, and I, are very much alike.  I play solo mostly and group with my husband occasionally and I am DEFINITELY NOT the most efficient player as you stated.. I do have a multitude of 92 crafters though.

I spent hours and hours (5 days including the xp weekend) trying to get my 79 Monk to 80.  She is still 79.

I have wrestled with the idea of requesting taking vitality out of the game.  I like your idea of dropping due to lack of food or drink since I see many many people going around without either.  It takes me about 5-7 days to get my vitality back up to 100%.  If I continue playing said toon without vitality, I get no where and it becomes frustrating and a waste of time.  I don't have endless money or SC to buy vitality potions.

I am all for revamping the vitality issue.

If you play the game normally there is no way you send 5 hours on a lvl 79 toon and not hit 80. If you go to the darn Jarsath Wastes and just quest normally you will gain at least 2 levels in 4 hours, without any bonuses and wihout any vitality.

[Edited for being non-constructive and for trolling.]

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Old 06-01-2012, 08:39 AM   #32
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I just went from 80-90 questing in Sundered Frontier, then to Stonebrunt at 85. Was 90 by the end of those quests. No vitality, no xp potions, just normal good ol' questing. Did this on two seperate toons in just 1 week. Few hours a day each.

Quests in Stonebrunt/Sundered Frontier range anywhere from 4-8k xp per quest. From what  I remember, quests in Kunark usually rewarded me 1-3k each.

As many have said before, I think you are doing something wrong if it takes you so long to get from 79-80.

EQ2 is easy enough as is. It's been made about 100x easier than it originally was at launch (I wish the game was still as challenging as it was at launch).

Think leveling is a grind in this game? Should have been in EQ2 between 1999-2003. Now that was a grind, but it was still extremely fun : )

Is it just me, or was EQ1 and EQ2 the most fun in the first years of the game? 

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Old 06-01-2012, 10:57 AM   #33
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Grumble69 wrote:

If vitality was designed to help casuals keep up, then it's a stupid mechanic that is not working.  End of story.  Most casuals that I know are strolling through lowbie land at a lalalala pace.  They're the kind of people that take 6 months to a year to get to 90.  ...and even then they prolly have < 200AAs. 

Vitality is just an irritating speed bump.  It doesn't stop me.  I will PL that char, vitality or not.  And I'll probably be at 90/300 before that casual player even makes it out of commonlands.  I have no interest in "leveling up".  And the faster, the better.  I would be happy if they pulled it from the game.

ok then explain to me a situation where a casual wont "stroll through" the starting area in a game they have just started playing. what do you expect casuals (or any new player to do) in an unfamiliar game? EQ2 is part experiance part knowlege.

the more you know about the game the faster you will level up charaters and gain AAs this is true for many games and so i ask what your motivation is? if vitality is removed it will take you and the rest of us longer to level and gain AAs.

how is that a good thing?

It is better to have a finite regenerative xp bonus then no bonus at all.

casuals, hardcore and everyone inbetween have the same access and use of the bonus. if a player decides to use up his or her vitality and keep grinding they have made the choice to get that xp early without vitality in exchange for less efficient leveling.

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Old 06-01-2012, 12:46 PM   #34
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First, I've been playing for almost seven years.  I have no characters who are level 92 and it DOES take weeks to go from 79 to 80 soloing for those of us who have families and jobs.  I'm a single dad with two girls and a manager in the software company for which I work.  My work and family is one thing and my playing is another.  I play for fun, not for "winning".

Secondly, this question was answered years ago.  The whole purpose for this was so that you WOULD switch characters and not get bored with the game quickly by burning out on a single class.  That answer was given in 2005 or 6 when we were wondering the same thing.

Third, Sony doesn't change the game for anyone but the highest revenue generators.  That is it.  Just because someone may be a super powerleveler and want to go from birth to end game in three days doesn't mean that person's opinion's any more important than the one like me who takes years to max levels.

We're still playing aren't we?  The people who are really bothered by the changes don't come on the message boards to complain; they just leave and we never hear from them again.

Edit for clarification:  I should have mentioned that I was NOT complaining about it taking a long time.  I have no complaints about this game other than with the Swashbuckler class...maybe a few niggles about the Conjurer's, too.

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Old 06-01-2012, 01:21 PM   #35
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[email protected] wrote:

First, I've been playing for almost seven years.  I have no characters who are level 92 and it DOES take weeks to go from 79 to 80 soloing for those of us who have families and jobs. 

Sure it can take that long... but not if the person is adventuring/questing for 4 hours straight. The extreme casual player will always have vitality and weeks of playing and not going from 79 to 80.. just means they aren't seeking XP when they play, and that is a different topic all together. Either that or they play 30mins a day, and for some people that may be all they can squeeze in. I know I only had an hour to play today and no vitality and went from 90-91, but that is because I was seeking XP.

But no one playstyle is right and SOE shouldn't change anything because of said playstyles. I think if they took it away it would only hurt casuals. I wouldn't miss it as most of the time when I am bringing up a character it is sitting at 0% anyways lol

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Old 06-01-2012, 03:12 PM   #36
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I should have mentioned that I was NOT complaining about it taking a long time.  I have no complaints about this game other than with the Swashbuckler class.

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Old 06-01-2012, 03:14 PM   #37
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No.

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Old 06-01-2012, 10:37 PM   #38
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I agree it sucks when you run out of vitality. I used to do that all the time when levelling up my carpenter and that was before vet orbs and SC baubles.

But I think it's still got it's place.

If I had my way character levels would be tied in to time played on that character (age), so nobody could level to 92 in 24 hours like they now claim. It should be a real achievement to have a character at cap and should take 6-12 months of regular play. Every hour played in game would give you the opportunity to gain a fraction of a level. If you chose to do something that awarded XP then you could gain a fraction of a level.

But sadly, difficult games are a thing of the past, everything is about endcap.

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Old 06-02-2012, 08:46 AM   #39
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What's the point of level 1-92 anyhow?  It's just an extended solo player game.  You learn what your character does easily by level 20, if not by level 10.  It rarely teaches you how to group as there are no groups before 92 other than dungeon zerging groups.  In reality it is simply a time roadblock, something to keep you addicted to the dings while you pay your sub, something to add to the level of work you've put into that toon and make you less apt to abandom him.  Really if you take away the financial incentive there is little reason to play those levels.

Note that I'm speaking as someone who has leveled over at least 10 toons to level 90, 5 of those to 92/320.  I can understand the first time players desire to "experience" the game, although IMO it's kind of a sad mediocre lonely experience going through all the heroic content as a solo player, yet it's still valid.  But when you get to your xth alt that experience is just purely boring and just a chore you do to get to a social point in the game where you can interact with others.  Obviously this is the reason xp/aa pots are such money makers, why people zerg dungeons, why they grind xp/aa in certain zones, why there is a great cry of adulation when double xp weekends come about, etc etc.

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Old 06-02-2012, 11:22 AM   #40
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One thing you guys that are wanting the vitality removed need to think about is the easiest way to remove it would be to just turn it off. if that happens guess what? We are all out of vitality all the time. As it stands the bonus is pretty good when there. Personally I'll take it and run with it. Also the only time vitality is a real issue is if you are grinding lvls. If you are actually playing the game, the vitality will regen about .5% every hour.
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:17 PM   #41
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But to answer the OP's original question-  What do I do when I run out of vitality?   I keep killing things.

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Old 06-02-2012, 04:46 PM   #42
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SpineDoc wrote:

What's the point of level 1-92 anyhow?  It's just an extended solo player game.  You learn what your character does easily by level 20, if not by level 10.  It rarely teaches you how to group as there are no groups before 92 other than dungeon zerging groups.  In reality it is simply a time roadblock, something to keep you addicted to the dings while you pay your sub, something to add to the level of work you've put into that toon and make you less apt to abandom him.  Really if you take away the financial incentive there is little reason to play those levels.

Note that I'm speaking as someone who has leveled over at least 10 toons to level 90, 5 of those to 92/320.  I can understand the first time players desire to "experience" the game, although IMO it's kind of a sad mediocre lonely experience going through all the heroic content as a solo player, yet it's still valid.  But when you get to your xth alt that experience is just purely boring and just a chore you do to get to a social point in the game where you can interact with others.  Obviously this is the reason xp/aa pots are such money makers, why people zerg dungeons, why they grind xp/aa in certain zones, why there is a great cry of adulation when double xp weekends come about, etc etc.

You most certainly do not learn what your character does by 20. Every class gains important skills at various intervals of leveling that change gamestyle/rotations. Here is a quick example for you, as an inquisitor, and without looking it up, how many interrupts do you have? Can you tell me that? Can you tell me for all of your 10 alts? I can tell you that probably a third of players I PuG with cannot tell me that for their main. I had a 92 tank that is MT for a raiding guild (!) not know that he had an interrupt. I also had an illusionist that did not know how to feed power or cure arcane. In ToFS, every other caster did not know that they have a dispell when asked to dispell DS on Librarian (also every single Paladin did not know that either). Right now, at least SOME people look at what new abilities they get when they level, but if everyone would just get a buff to 92/320, things would be even worse.

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Old 06-02-2012, 09:24 PM   #43
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Haapy wrote:

SpineDoc wrote:

What's the point of level 1-92 anyhow?  It's just an extended solo player game.  You learn what your character does easily by level 20, if not by level 10.  It rarely teaches you how to group as there are no groups before 92 other than dungeon zerging groups.  In reality it is simply a time roadblock, something to keep you addicted to the dings while you pay your sub, something to add to the level of work you've put into that toon and make you less apt to abandom him.  Really if you take away the financial incentive there is little reason to play those levels.

Note that I'm speaking as someone who has leveled over at least 10 toons to level 90, 5 of those to 92/320.  I can understand the first time players desire to "experience" the game, although IMO it's kind of a sad mediocre lonely experience going through all the heroic content as a solo player, yet it's still valid.  But when you get to your xth alt that experience is just purely boring and just a chore you do to get to a social point in the game where you can interact with others.  Obviously this is the reason xp/aa pots are such money makers, why people zerg dungeons, why they grind xp/aa in certain zones, why there is a great cry of adulation when double xp weekends come about, etc etc.

You most certainly do not learn what your character does by 20. Every class gains important skills at various intervals of leveling that change gamestyle/rotations. Here is a quick example for you, as an inquisitor, and without looking it up, how many interrupts do you have? Can you tell me that? Can you tell me for all of your 10 alts? I can tell you that probably a third of players I PuG with cannot tell me that for their main. I had a 92 tank that is MT for a raiding guild (!) not know that he had an interrupt. I also had an illusionist that did not know how to feed power or cure arcane. In ToFS, every other caster did not know that they have a dispell when asked to dispell DS on Librarian (also every single Paladin did not know that either). Right now, at least SOME people look at what new abilities they get when they level, but if everyone would just get a buff to 92/320, things would be even worse.

I was being generous when I said 20, really you learn the basics of soloing by level 10 if not sooner.  The things you are talking about are grouping skills.  What we have today is basically  the same as giving a player a level 92 toon, they solo the entire game with no grouping skills and reach 90 having never grouped.

I completely agree that in a perfect world people leveling up would learn these little nuances of their class and how they help the group out.  But either you do the golden soloquest which requires virtually no skills just time and effort, or you grind which requires slightly more skill but quite a different skill set than actually being in a group.

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Old 06-02-2012, 10:14 PM   #44
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SpineDoc wrote:

Haapy wrote:

SpineDoc wrote:

What's the point of level 1-92 anyhow?  It's just an extended solo player game.  You learn what your character does easily by level 20, if not by level 10.  It rarely teaches you how to group as there are no groups before 92 other than dungeon zerging groups.  In reality it is simply a time roadblock, something to keep you addicted to the dings while you pay your sub, something to add to the level of work you've put into that toon and make you less apt to abandom him.  Really if you take away the financial incentive there is little reason to play those levels.

Note that I'm speaking as someone who has leveled over at least 10 toons to level 90, 5 of those to 92/320.  I can understand the first time players desire to "experience" the game, although IMO it's kind of a sad mediocre lonely experience going through all the heroic content as a solo player, yet it's still valid.  But when you get to your xth alt that experience is just purely boring and just a chore you do to get to a social point in the game where you can interact with others.  Obviously this is the reason xp/aa pots are such money makers, why people zerg dungeons, why they grind xp/aa in certain zones, why there is a great cry of adulation when double xp weekends come about, etc etc.

You most certainly do not learn what your character does by 20. Every class gains important skills at various intervals of leveling that change gamestyle/rotations. Here is a quick example for you, as an inquisitor, and without looking it up, how many interrupts do you have? Can you tell me that? Can you tell me for all of your 10 alts? I can tell you that probably a third of players I PuG with cannot tell me that for their main. I had a 92 tank that is MT for a raiding guild (!) not know that he had an interrupt. I also had an illusionist that did not know how to feed power or cure arcane. In ToFS, every other caster did not know that they have a dispell when asked to dispell DS on Librarian (also every single Paladin did not know that either). Right now, at least SOME people look at what new abilities they get when they level, but if everyone would just get a buff to 92/320, things would be even worse.

I was being generous when I said 20, really you learn the basics of soloing by level 10 if not sooner.  The things you are talking about are grouping skills.  What we have today is basically  the same as giving a player a level 92 toon, they solo the entire game with no grouping skills and reach 90 having never grouped.

I completely agree that in a perfect world people leveling up would learn these little nuances of their class and how they help the group out.  But either you do the golden soloquest which requires virtually no skills just time and effort, or you grind which requires slightly more skill but quite a different skill set than actually being in a group.

How is knowing your toons abilities a 'grouping skill' and not 'learning what your character does'? Knowing the full scope of your abilities is knowing your toon.. not a grouping skill...

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Old 06-02-2012, 11:07 PM   #45
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Mermut wrote:

SpineDoc wrote:

Haapy wrote:

SpineDoc wrote:

What's the point of level 1-92 anyhow?  It's just an extended solo player game.  You learn what your character does easily by level 20, if not by level 10.  It rarely teaches you how to group as there are no groups before 92 other than dungeon zerging groups.  In reality it is simply a time roadblock, something to keep you addicted to the dings while you pay your sub, something to add to the level of work you've put into that toon and make you less apt to abandom him.  Really if you take away the financial incentive there is little reason to play those levels.

Note that I'm speaking as someone who has leveled over at least 10 toons to level 90, 5 of those to 92/320.  I can understand the first time players desire to "experience" the game, although IMO it's kind of a sad mediocre lonely experience going through all the heroic content as a solo player, yet it's still valid.  But when you get to your xth alt that experience is just purely boring and just a chore you do to get to a social point in the game where you can interact with others.  Obviously this is the reason xp/aa pots are such money makers, why people zerg dungeons, why they grind xp/aa in certain zones, why there is a great cry of adulation when double xp weekends come about, etc etc.

You most certainly do not learn what your character does by 20. Every class gains important skills at various intervals of leveling that change gamestyle/rotations. Here is a quick example for you, as an inquisitor, and without looking it up, how many interrupts do you have? Can you tell me that? Can you tell me for all of your 10 alts? I can tell you that probably a third of players I PuG with cannot tell me that for their main. I had a 92 tank that is MT for a raiding guild (!) not know that he had an interrupt. I also had an illusionist that did not know how to feed power or cure arcane. In ToFS, every other caster did not know that they have a dispell when asked to dispell DS on Librarian (also every single Paladin did not know that either). Right now, at least SOME people look at what new abilities they get when they level, but if everyone would just get a buff to 92/320, things would be even worse.

I was being generous when I said 20, really you learn the basics of soloing by level 10 if not sooner.  The things you are talking about are grouping skills.  What we have today is basically  the same as giving a player a level 92 toon, they solo the entire game with no grouping skills and reach 90 having never grouped.

I completely agree that in a perfect world people leveling up would learn these little nuances of their class and how they help the group out.  But either you do the golden soloquest which requires virtually no skills just time and effort, or you grind which requires slightly more skill but quite a different skill set than actually being in a group.

How is knowing your toons abilities a 'grouping skill' and not 'learning what your character does'? Knowing the full scope of your abilities is knowing your toon.. not a grouping skill...

Knowing how to group, when to cast what, what each players role is in the group, I could go on forever about "grouping skills".  These are skills you pick up when grouping, at least when grouping difficult encounters and dungeons, granted there are plenty of dungeons you can just zerg through.   Just because you have a spell or ability doesn't mean you know how, when or why to use it.

This is the reason many vets avoid PUGs, not just because of player gear/AA but also because players don't know what to do do to lack of experience.

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Old 06-03-2012, 09:39 PM   #46
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shots01 wrote:

Never said I was unhappy with game.  Just that for some reason over the course of 4.5 YEARS, I have had this very similar problem.

After 5 days of attempting to level my monk to 80 by QUESSTTTINGGGG, running ALL the quests in KP, Fens and starting on KJ, i got no where.

the end.

Seriously i dont know what you are doing playing this game. Frustrating to read what you put in this thread, if you are like this IRL, well you are lucky you have a husband.

You have XP disabled. Right click and enable XP please and stay away from the forums.

5 Days doing all the quests in KP, Fens and starting KJ, aswell as being on double xp weekend, and not getting 1 level? I call BS to that. Ive done these quests many times. Im positive you will gain your level during the KP quest line just off the quest hand in experience, not even including XP from mobs.

I agree with the others, you are doing something wrong, you are playing the game.

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Old 06-03-2012, 11:10 PM   #47
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Vitality went in when that other MMO added a "rested" XP bonus.

It's not even buggy, why would you want dev time spent removing more things that work?

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Old 06-04-2012, 01:19 AM   #48
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I hate the vitality penalty to be honest.  Take this last double xp weekend for example.  I had a lvel 53 toon I was trying to level. My vitality started at 100% and was gone after just over an hour and barely got to level 55 with the server bonus!  So if it takes a couple of hours to lose vitality why doesn't it take a couple of hours to get back up to 100% vitality? As we know it takes a week to build back up.

Additionaly, I only have one level 90 so only had a 20% veteran adventure bonus, plus the 100% server xp.  But, after getting way slowed down on levels after running out of vitality I played some of my lower level toons just for something to do. I refused to buy vitality potions this time as I feel it's just another way for SOE to make money on the marketplace for these events.

At the end of the day, If they want players to get to 90+280AA to do new content they should mitigate the penalties such as vitality and grouping.

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Old 06-04-2012, 01:44 AM   #49
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Dawnstrike wrote:

I hate the vitality penalty to be honest.  Take this last double xp weekend for example.  I had a lvel 53 toon I was trying to level. My vitality started at 100% and was gone after just over an hour and barely got to level 55 with the server bonus!  So if it takes a couple of hours to lose vitality why doesn't it take a couple of hours to get back up to 100% vitality? As we know it takes a week to build back up.

Additionaly, I only have one level 90 so only had a 20% veteran adventure bonus, plus the 100% server xp.  But, after getting way slowed down on levels after running out of vitality I played some of my lower level toons just for something to do. I refused to buy vitality potions this time as I feel it's just another way for SOE to make money on the marketplace for these events.

At the end of the day, If they want players to get to 90+280AA to do new content they should mitigate the penalties such as vitality and grouping.

1. There is no vitality penalty, vitality is a bonus. Lack of bonus is not a penalty. If a boss gives you bonus money for working on holiday or exceptional profits for the quater, do you view the rest of your pay as penalized? If Emplayee of the Month gets extra $100, does it mean everyone else penalized by $100? You are thinking backwards. You really ought to crusade against double exp weekends, you probably hate the "double exp penalty" too.

2. Remember how exp slowed down after vitality run dry? That is how it would always be if vitality went out of the game. Removal of vitality means ALWAYS slower exp, and no extra boost for a few dozen mobs like you get now. 

3. You could have played your main even after running out of vitality. Quest exp does not change, and since you only have a single lvl 90, there is at very least 75% of the game you have not even seen.

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Old 06-04-2012, 02:02 AM   #50
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Haapy wrote:

Dawnstrike wrote:

I hate the vitality penalty to be honest.  Take this last double xp weekend for example.  I had a lvel 53 toon I was trying to level. My vitality started at 100% and was gone after just over an hour and barely got to level 55 with the server bonus!  So if it takes a couple of hours to lose vitality why doesn't it take a couple of hours to get back up to 100% vitality? As we know it takes a week to build back up.

Additionaly, I only have one level 90 so only had a 20% veteran adventure bonus, plus the 100% server xp.  But, after getting way slowed down on levels after running out of vitality I played some of my lower level toons just for something to do. I refused to buy vitality potions this time as I feel it's just another way for SOE to make money on the marketplace for these events.

At the end of the day, If they want players to get to 90+280AA to do new content they should mitigate the penalties such as vitality and grouping.

1. There is no vitality penalty, vitality is a bonus. Lack of bonus is not a penalty. If a boss gives you bonus money for working on holiday or exceptional profits for the quater, do you view the rest of your pay as penalized? If Emplayee of the Month gets extra $100, does it mean everyone else penalized by $100? You are thinking backwards. You really ought to crusade against double exp weekends, you probably hate the "double exp penalty" too.

2. Remember how exp slowed down after vitality run dry? That is how it would always be if vitality went out of the game. Removal of vitality means ALWAYS slower exp, and no extra boost for a few dozen mobs like you get now. 

3. You could have played your main even after running out of vitality. Quest exp does not change, and since you only have a single lvl 90, there is at very least 75% of the game you have not even seen.

Right the vitality "bonus"...is it though? It's an in game outdated mechanic to make folks play the game.  So I don't play for over a week it's at 100%, I play for a couple of hours and it gets to zero and takes about a week to build back up? I think that timeline concept could be revisited. 

Considering they've pretty much only have introduced end game content for level 90's and above for over a year now, they should revisit old ways of leveling and give even more bonuses where they can.

Yep you're right, I have the one level 90, I have not even seen most of Velious on my main toon.  Why would I do it now?  What if I don't really like the class I initially chose to get to 90? So now, I want to play a my latest toon and get them to end game to experience the content and don't want the vitality detriment to slow me down.

They need to remove the impediments of getting to end game faster if that's what they're going to provide content for.

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Old 06-04-2012, 02:31 AM   #51
Haapy

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Dawnstrike wrote:

Haapy wrote:

Dawnstrike wrote:

I hate the vitality penalty to be honest.  Take this last double xp weekend for example.  I had a lvel 53 toon I was trying to level. My vitality started at 100% and was gone after just over an hour and barely got to level 55 with the server bonus!  So if it takes a couple of hours to lose vitality why doesn't it take a couple of hours to get back up to 100% vitality? As we know it takes a week to build back up.

Additionaly, I only have one level 90 so only had a 20% veteran adventure bonus, plus the 100% server xp.  But, after getting way slowed down on levels after running out of vitality I played some of my lower level toons just for something to do. I refused to buy vitality potions this time as I feel it's just another way for SOE to make money on the marketplace for these events.

At the end of the day, If they want players to get to 90+280AA to do new content they should mitigate the penalties such as vitality and grouping.

1. There is no vitality penalty, vitality is a bonus. Lack of bonus is not a penalty. If a boss gives you bonus money for working on holiday or exceptional profits for the quater, do you view the rest of your pay as penalized? If Emplayee of the Month gets extra $100, does it mean everyone else penalized by $100? You are thinking backwards. You really ought to crusade against double exp weekends, you probably hate the "double exp penalty" too.

2. Remember how exp slowed down after vitality run dry? That is how it would always be if vitality went out of the game. Removal of vitality means ALWAYS slower exp, and no extra boost for a few dozen mobs like you get now. 

3. You could have played your main even after running out of vitality. Quest exp does not change, and since you only have a single lvl 90, there is at very least 75% of the game you have not even seen.

Right the vitality "bonus"...is it though? It's an in game outdated mechanic to make folks play the game.  So I don't play for over a week it's at 100%, I play for a couple of hours and it gets to zero and takes about a week to build back up? I think that timeline concept could be revisited. 

Considering they've pretty much only have introduced end game content for level 90's and above for over a year now, they should revisit old ways of leveling and give even more bonuses where they can.

Yep you're right, I have the one level 90, I have not even seen most of Velious on my main toon.  Why would I do it now?  What if I don't really like the class I initially chose to get to 90? So now, I want to play a my latest toon and get them to end game to experience the content and don't want the vitality detriment to slow me down.

They need to remove the impediments of getting to end game faster if that's what they're going to provide content for.

It is a bonus. And it is there not to make people play the game, but to make it a little easier to catch up after you took a few days off from playing. The "proper" exp earned for quests and kills does not go down. When you say you want it revisited, you basically saying "I want SoE to double exp ALL the time, make every day a double exp day!"

Just because they introduced the content for lvl 90+ in the last year is not a reason not to experience content before that. Or are you purely gear-driven and have no interest in story behind things that happen in EQ2? have you even heard of Mayong, I wonder. Have you gotten your 5k acvhievement yet? Do you even have your Shattered Lands cloak? There are things in previous expacs that are 100x more exciting and interesting than anything LU63 has to offer.

SoE already removed all the impediments of getting to the end game. We are just arguing about the acceptable rate. You want the 90/320 button, I think it is fine as is. 

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Old 06-04-2012, 02:52 AM   #52
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Haapy wrote:

Dawnstrike wrote:

Haapy wrote:

Dawnstrike wrote:

I hate the vitality penalty to be honest.  Take this last double xp weekend for example.  I had a lvel 53 toon I was trying to level. My vitality started at 100% and was gone after just over an hour and barely got to level 55 with the server bonus!  So if it takes a couple of hours to lose vitality why doesn't it take a couple of hours to get back up to 100% vitality? As we know it takes a week to build back up.

Additionaly, I only have one level 90 so only had a 20% veteran adventure bonus, plus the 100% server xp.  But, after getting way slowed down on levels after running out of vitality I played some of my lower level toons just for something to do. I refused to buy vitality potions this time as I feel it's just another way for SOE to make money on the marketplace for these events.

At the end of the day, If they want players to get to 90+280AA to do new content they should mitigate the penalties such as vitality and grouping.

1. There is no vitality penalty, vitality is a bonus. Lack of bonus is not a penalty. If a boss gives you bonus money for working on holiday or exceptional profits for the quater, do you view the rest of your pay as penalized? If Emplayee of the Month gets extra $100, does it mean everyone else penalized by $100? You are thinking backwards. You really ought to crusade against double exp weekends, you probably hate the "double exp penalty" too.

2. Remember how exp slowed down after vitality run dry? That is how it would always be if vitality went out of the game. Removal of vitality means ALWAYS slower exp, and no extra boost for a few dozen mobs like you get now. 

3. You could have played your main even after running out of vitality. Quest exp does not change, and since you only have a single lvl 90, there is at very least 75% of the game you have not even seen.

Right the vitality "bonus"...is it though? It's an in game outdated mechanic to make folks play the game.  So I don't play for over a week it's at 100%, I play for a couple of hours and it gets to zero and takes about a week to build back up? I think that timeline concept could be revisited. 

Considering they've pretty much only have introduced end game content for level 90's and above for over a year now, they should revisit old ways of leveling and give even more bonuses where they can.

Yep you're right, I have the one level 90, I have not even seen most of Velious on my main toon.  Why would I do it now?  What if I don't really like the class I initially chose to get to 90? So now, I want to play a my latest toon and get them to end game to experience the content and don't want the vitality detriment to slow me down.

They need to remove the impediments of getting to end game faster if that's what they're going to provide content for.

It is a bonus. And it is there not to make people play the game, but to make it a little easier to catch up after you took a few days off from playing. The "proper" exp earned for quests and kills does not go down. When you say you want it revisited, you basically saying "I want SoE to double exp ALL the time, make every day a double exp day!"

Just because they introduced the content for lvl 90+ in the last year is not a reason not to experience content before that. Or are you purely gear-driven and have no interest in story behind things that happen in EQ2? have you even heard of Mayong, I wonder. Have you gotten your 5k acvhievement yet? Do you even have your Shattered Lands cloak? There are things in previous expacs that are 100x more exciting and interesting than anything LU63 has to offer.

SoE already removed all the impediments of getting to the end game. We are just arguing about the acceptable rate. You want the 90/320 button, I think it is fine as is. 

Sigh, if we were on Nagafen we could settle this "amicably" I suppose SMILEY.  Okay yes you are right vitality is a bonus.  Remember when having lots of items in your inventory slowed you down and made you walk super slow? Well they did away with that last year.

The fact is; the vitality gain/loss rate as it stands today is unbalanced.  I guess I'm not for removing vitality but feel that I should be rewarded more for playing than not playing.

Shattered lands cloak? Why would I and who would run it with me? Most folks have moved on from the content you are referencing.  Fact is, yeah it's all about 92/320. We don't need to discuss old content further unless you want to help me run Chelsith to get to 92?  That seems to be still part of the "golden path" in this game.  Oh wait, unless they adjust vitality and reward us for playing the game even further instead of having it run out after a couple of hours.

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Old 06-04-2012, 03:42 AM   #53
Haapy

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Dawnstrike wrote:

Haapy wrote:

Dawnstrike wrote:

Haapy wrote:

Dawnstrike wrote:

I hate the vitality penalty to be honest.  Take this last double xp weekend for example.  I had a lvel 53 toon I was trying to level. My vitality started at 100% and was gone after just over an hour and barely got to level 55 with the server bonus!  So if it takes a couple of hours to lose vitality why doesn't it take a couple of hours to get back up to 100% vitality? As we know it takes a week to build back up.

Additionaly, I only have one level 90 so only had a 20% veteran adventure bonus, plus the 100% server xp.  But, after getting way slowed down on levels after running out of vitality I played some of my lower level toons just for something to do. I refused to buy vitality potions this time as I feel it's just another way for SOE to make money on the marketplace for these events.

At the end of the day, If they want players to get to 90+280AA to do new content they should mitigate the penalties such as vitality and grouping.

1. There is no vitality penalty, vitality is a bonus. Lack of bonus is not a penalty. If a boss gives you bonus money for working on holiday or exceptional profits for the quater, do you view the rest of your pay as penalized? If Emplayee of the Month gets extra $100, does it mean everyone else penalized by $100? You are thinking backwards. You really ought to crusade against double exp weekends, you probably hate the "double exp penalty" too.

2. Remember how exp slowed down after vitality run dry? That is how it would always be if vitality went out of the game. Removal of vitality means ALWAYS slower exp, and no extra boost for a few dozen mobs like you get now. 

3. You could have played your main even after running out of vitality. Quest exp does not change, and since you only have a single lvl 90, there is at very least 75% of the game you have not even seen.

Right the vitality "bonus"...is it though? It's an in game outdated mechanic to make folks play the game.  So I don't play for over a week it's at 100%, I play for a couple of hours and it gets to zero and takes about a week to build back up? I think that timeline concept could be revisited. 

Considering they've pretty much only have introduced end game content for level 90's and above for over a year now, they should revisit old ways of leveling and give even more bonuses where they can.

Yep you're right, I have the one level 90, I have not even seen most of Velious on my main toon.  Why would I do it now?  What if I don't really like the class I initially chose to get to 90? So now, I want to play a my latest toon and get them to end game to experience the content and don't want the vitality detriment to slow me down.

They need to remove the impediments of getting to end game faster if that's what they're going to provide content for.

It is a bonus. And it is there not to make people play the game, but to make it a little easier to catch up after you took a few days off from playing. The "proper" exp earned for quests and kills does not go down. When you say you want it revisited, you basically saying "I want SoE to double exp ALL the time, make every day a double exp day!"

Just because they introduced the content for lvl 90+ in the last year is not a reason not to experience content before that. Or are you purely gear-driven and have no interest in story behind things that happen in EQ2? have you even heard of Mayong, I wonder. Have you gotten your 5k acvhievement yet? Do you even have your Shattered Lands cloak? There are things in previous expacs that are 100x more exciting and interesting than anything LU63 has to offer.

SoE already removed all the impediments of getting to the end game. We are just arguing about the acceptable rate. You want the 90/320 button, I think it is fine as is. 

Sigh, if we were on Nagafen we could settle this "amicably" I suppose .  Okay yes you are right vitality is a bonus.  Remember when having lots of items in your inventory slowed you down and made you walk super slow? Well they did away with that last year.

The fact is; the vitality gain/loss rate as it stands today is unbalanced.  I guess I'm not for removing vitality but feel that I should be rewarded more for playing than not playing.

Shattered lands cloak? Why would I and who would run it with me? Most folks have moved on from the content you are referencing.  Fact is, yeah it's all about 92/320. We don't need to discuss old content further unless you want to help me run Chelsith to get to 92?  That seems to be still part of the "golden path" in this game.  Oh wait, unless they adjust vitality and reward us for playing the game even further instead of having it run out after a couple of hours.

You are getting rewarded much more for playing. Think about it. If the whole week's bonus for not playing (vitality) is gone after 2 hrs of playtime for you, that means that playing without vitality, you would achieve similar progress in 4 hrs. So, 200 hrs not playing = (4-2/2) hrs playing exp-wise. System works exactly how YOU feel it should. Why are we arguing?

I really do not understand why people are so keen on 92/320. I have a few characters at cap, raiding and grouping. It is not that awesome. The storyline is the worst of all expacs, quests are much more boring, zones are drab. There are only 3 zone layouts: UD, WL and SS. All raids and heroics are just parts of SS or UD with different mobs. I just run Damsel series on my baby alt, and that questline blew away anything in DoV for amount of awesomesause (I finished that one many times and it never gets old).  Nek castle and Unrest are 10x more innovative, Sol Eye 10x more immense.

I guess I am playing the game, and you are just leveling in it.

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Old 06-04-2012, 04:09 AM   #54
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Haapy wrote:

Dawnstrike wrote:

Haapy wrote:

Dawnstrike wrote:

Haapy wrote:

Dawnstrike wrote:

I hate the vitality penalty to be honest.  Take this last double xp weekend for example.  I had a lvel 53 toon I was trying to level. My vitality started at 100% and was gone after just over an hour and barely got to level 55 with the server bonus!  So if it takes a couple of hours to lose vitality why doesn't it take a couple of hours to get back up to 100% vitality? As we know it takes a week to build back up.

Additionaly, I only have one level 90 so only had a 20% veteran adventure bonus, plus the 100% server xp.  But, after getting way slowed down on levels after running out of vitality I played some of my lower level toons just for something to do. I refused to buy vitality potions this time as I feel it's just another way for SOE to make money on the marketplace for these events.

At the end of the day, If they want players to get to 90+280AA to do new content they should mitigate the penalties such as vitality and grouping.

1. There is no vitality penalty, vitality is a bonus. Lack of bonus is not a penalty. If a boss gives you bonus money for working on holiday or exceptional profits for the quater, do you view the rest of your pay as penalized? If Emplayee of the Month gets extra $100, does it mean everyone else penalized by $100? You are thinking backwards. You really ought to crusade against double exp weekends, you probably hate the "double exp penalty" too.

2. Remember how exp slowed down after vitality run dry? That is how it would always be if vitality went out of the game. Removal of vitality means ALWAYS slower exp, and no extra boost for a few dozen mobs like you get now. 

3. You could have played your main even after running out of vitality. Quest exp does not change, and since you only have a single lvl 90, there is at very least 75% of the game you have not even seen.

Right the vitality "bonus"...is it though? It's an in game outdated mechanic to make folks play the game.  So I don't play for over a week it's at 100%, I play for a couple of hours and it gets to zero and takes about a week to build back up? I think that timeline concept could be revisited. 

Considering they've pretty much only have introduced end game content for level 90's and above for over a year now, they should revisit old ways of leveling and give even more bonuses where they can.

Yep you're right, I have the one level 90, I have not even seen most of Velious on my main toon.  Why would I do it now?  What if I don't really like the class I initially chose to get to 90? So now, I want to play a my latest toon and get them to end game to experience the content and don't want the vitality detriment to slow me down.

They need to remove the impediments of getting to end game faster if that's what they're going to provide content for.

It is a bonus. And it is there not to make people play the game, but to make it a little easier to catch up after you took a few days off from playing. The "proper" exp earned for quests and kills does not go down. When you say you want it revisited, you basically saying "I want SoE to double exp ALL the time, make every day a double exp day!"

Just because they introduced the content for lvl 90+ in the last year is not a reason not to experience content before that. Or are you purely gear-driven and have no interest in story behind things that happen in EQ2? have you even heard of Mayong, I wonder. Have you gotten your 5k acvhievement yet? Do you even have your Shattered Lands cloak? There are things in previous expacs that are 100x more exciting and interesting than anything LU63 has to offer.

SoE already removed all the impediments of getting to the end game. We are just arguing about the acceptable rate. You want the 90/320 button, I think it is fine as is. 

Sigh, if we were on Nagafen we could settle this "amicably" I suppose .  Okay yes you are right vitality is a bonus.  Remember when having lots of items in your inventory slowed you down and made you walk super slow? Well they did away with that last year.

The fact is; the vitality gain/loss rate as it stands today is unbalanced.  I guess I'm not for removing vitality but feel that I should be rewarded more for playing than not playing.

Shattered lands cloak? Why would I and who would run it with me? Most folks have moved on from the content you are referencing.  Fact is, yeah it's all about 92/320. We don't need to discuss old content further unless you want to help me run Chelsith to get to 92?  That seems to be still part of the "golden path" in this game.  Oh wait, unless they adjust vitality and reward us for playing the game even further instead of having it run out after a couple of hours.

You are getting rewarded much more for playing. Think about it. If the whole week's bonus for not playing (vitality) is gone after 2 hrs of playtime for you, that means that playing without vitality, you would achieve similar progress in 4 hrs. So, 200 hrs not playing = (4-2/2) hrs playing exp-wise. System works exactly how YOU feel it should. Why are we arguing?

I really do not understand why people are so keen on 92/320. I have a few characters at cap, raiding and grouping. It is not that awesome. The storyline is the worst of all expacs, quests are much more boring, zones are drab. There are only 3 zone layouts: UD, WL and SS. All raids and heroics are just parts of SS or UD with different mobs. I just run Damsel series on my baby alt, and that questline blew away anything in DoV for amount of awesomesause (I finished that one many times and it never gets old).  Nek castle and Unrest are 10x more innovative, Sol Eye 10x more immense.

I guess I am playing the game, and you are just leveling in it.

So we agree on one thing.  End game isn't all that awesome.  Which is one of the reasons I have my one level 90.  I just feel the "emphasis" is getting to level 92 in this game in a playstyle that isn't much fun for me.

Yeah you are right!  I am just leveling in it and sometimes it's not for the reasons you think.  I have several carpenters on multiple servers which means I am a decorator and am also an adventurer.  I have to take my carpenters through old content and new to get my recipes which can mean leveling their adventure level along side their tradeskill level. So yeah I've been through the older content; several times now.....

I have my main that will get me through Skyshrine, and quite frankly, it's a pain to have to deal with all the work that entails in both. However, the vitality is just another way to slow me down.

Just sayin, we could use more bonuses to rebuild vitality faster.

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Old 06-04-2012, 11:34 AM   #55
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Only in this game could players believe the lack of a bonus is a "penalty", that having one level 90 qualifies someone to judge "end game" content, and that the ease of leveling these days with reduced exp curves and constant double-exp periods is "work."

Unbelievable.

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Old 06-04-2012, 01:06 PM   #56
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bo·nus  [boh-nuhs]noun, plural bo·nus·es.1. something given or paid over and above what is due.2. a sum of money granted or given to an employee, a returned soldier, etc., in addition to regular pay, usually in appreciation for work done, length of service, accumulated favors, etc.3. something free, as an extra dividend, given by a corporation to a purchaser of its securities.4. a premium paid for a loan, contract, etc.5. something extra or additional given freely: Every purchaser of a pound of coffee received a box of cookies as a bonus.

Vitality bonus is just that.. a bonus.  Not something anyone is "entitled to".  Not something that is a "penalty".  It is a bonus.

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Old 06-04-2012, 01:33 PM   #57
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Dawnstrike wrote:

Just sayin, we could use more bonuses to rebuild vitality faster.

(( No.

Vitality is a bonus, and that bonus does not need making bigger. We do not need even faster XP.

XP is already much faster than it needs to be. Levelling characters is already super-trivial for anyone who actually tries to do it. But of course, no matter how easy it is, there is always someone coming here and complaining that they want it making EVEN EASIER. I fundamentally disagree with this attitude.

Just play the game and progress whilst playing. ))

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Old 06-06-2012, 03:10 PM   #58
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Why are you guys defining what vitality is?  We ALL KNOW what it is.  The question is, should it be omitted, or replaced, or changed from the way it is now.

If it were removed, should the amount of XP earned per kill remain the same as it is when you have vitality now, or should it always be at the lower amount that it is now when all your vitality is spent?

When I started this thread, I was in the first camp, that is always have XP per kill be at the higher level without it ever running out.  But, I didn't know that vitality did not affect the amount earned from quests.  I was just in a grinding mode left over from the weekend's double XP to get my wizard to 80 to unlock his AAs, and was just going around killing stuff to get there in a mindless hurry--something I usually NEVER do.  I think this was the first time I ever ran out of adventure vitality, and I was sticker shocked by the difference it made.

Now that I know that vitality doesn't come in to play when turning in quests, this will have no effect on how I play 98% of the time.

However, I wonder how much the vitality bonus really influences the way people level in the context of how they learn their class?  I think the way a person plays, his playstyle--is he a soloer or will he gravitate toward grouping--will have more effect on how that person learns his class rather than how much XP he earns, or how fast he levels.

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Old 06-06-2012, 03:20 PM   #59
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Let me boil this down.

Vitality was added to eq2 to allow players that don't play as much to keep up with players who did.  I can remember eq2 before vitality, and I saw the immediate effect of adding it.  Suddenly my friends who played less where staying with the same level tier I was when before they couldn't.  Thats was its intent and how it worked when it was added to the orriginal release.

Over time, it continued to serve its desired purpose, until a few years ago when leveling became so less relevant.  After RoK, the process of leveling a new expansion was a 3-5 day activity at best and vitality didn't really enter into the equation anymore.  In that all players were able to trivially get the next 10 levels of content at a reasonable speed.  Some got it in a day, some 2 weeks, but all got it quickly.  You didn't find guilds outleveling 25-40% of their members.

That entire paradigm is no longer relevant in eq2.

What I would recomend is changing adventure vitality to be fixed until level 90, then just disapear.  For tradeskill vitality, remove it entirely and just tune tradeskill xp to a linear pace that designers feel is appropriate.

Making this change returns vitality being what it was intended to be.  The intention was to catch up players to the pack, it wasn't to provide short term bonuses.

When it was introduced, the rate xp was available, if you logged in for 3, 3 hour sessions a week, you literally NEVER ran out of vitality.  But if you were on every night, you would drain it.  As such it worked perfectly in keeping the more casual members of your guild in the same basic tier of content with your most active players.

Vitality has since morphed into something vastly different than what it was implemented to achieve.  I would argue that the orriginal design reasoning was sound and vitality should be changed to achieve the same goal again.

2cp.

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Old 06-06-2012, 04:11 PM   #60
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Pacus wrote:

Why are you guys defining what vitality is?  We ALL KNOW what it is.  The question is, should it be omitted, or replaced, or changed from the way it is now.

No you are mistaken here had you read the thread you would have saw someone calling it a penalty if you think that person knows what it is then you are in the camp that doesn't know. There has only been one spot on post ITT and it is quoted below. This exactly what it was for and in it's day, when the game was really good and you could die to an overland mob, instead of being greeted with a bag of cotton candy and a soda by most of them it worked just fine.

Ulrichvon wrote:

Vitality was added to eq2 to allow players that don't play as much to keep up with players who did.  I can remember eq2 before vitality, and I saw the immediate effect of adding it.  Suddenly my friends who played less where staying with the same level tier I was when before they couldn't.  Thats was its intent and how it worked when it was added to the orriginal release.

Over time, it continued to serve its desired purpose, until a few years ago when leveling became so less relevant.  After RoK, the process of leveling a new expansion was a 3-5 day activity at best and vitality didn't really enter into the equation anymore.  In that all players were able to trivially get the next 10 levels of content at a reasonable speed.  Some got it in a day, some 2 weeks, but all got it quickly.  You didn't find guilds outleveling 25-40% of their members.

The amount of experience from level to level varies from tier to tier. Vitality is either drained at a set rate, you still get the same amount of EXP for x amount of vitality, but the higher your level it appears to have less and less benefit, it doesn't really but full vitality will get you 4-5 levels at one point but further down the road you might run out before getting 1 or 2.

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