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Old 02-18-2013, 04:38 PM   #1
Armous

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I am interested in making wall panels which have door openings, (single door and double door types,) as well as similar wall panels which instead of door openings (cut-outs), have window openings (cut-outs) maybe in a couple of configurations/sizes to be used in building interiors and exteriors on places like for example Tenebrous Island. (panels/dividers with "cut-outs" where doors/windows could be inserted by the ingame player/crafter.)

What is the possibility of getting the mesh for the current tall divider and a door mesh so that what I'd submit would be compatable with what is already in the game as far as size and proportions?  If not the mesh, at least information on size of those items so that whatever I make is compatable with stuff already in the game.

Thanks.

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Old 02-18-2013, 05:10 PM   #2
Cakvala

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What I have been doing for housing items is using the Bed Sample for sizing and setting it to the standard size, when people buy the item in game its size can be adjusted to fit the house and the end users preference.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:58 PM   #3
Armous

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Bed sample?  where is that available?

Thanks.

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Old 02-18-2013, 07:13 PM   #4
Cakvala

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Everquest: https://www.everquest.com/player-st...dio/get-started

Everquest 2: https://www.everquest2.com/player-s...dio/get-started

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Old 02-20-2013, 02:53 PM   #5
Armous

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Cakvala wrote:

Everquest: https://www.everquest.com/player-st...dio/get-started

Everquest 2: https://www.everquest2.com/player-s...dio/get-started

Thanks for your reply.  Obviously the bed sample is an EQ 1 model and may not be appropriate for use in EQ 2 as an example.  I am interested in making stuff for EQ2, and the house item they provide as an example is not useful at all when it comes to scaling and proportions.  I'm mostly interested in proportions or height width ratios because those are fixed even if an item can be scaled up or down.  That is why it is important to know the X, Y, Z measurements of a door and standard tall divider and standard tile.  I understand that the scale is set to a 6' human size.

By the way, imagine someone wants you to build a real house and they give you a bed or a brewer's keg as an example to help you start building the house.  It seems silly to me when other items more useful and or appropriate could be provided.  In real life, you'd have a blueprint to work off of, with all the information to enable the house to be built properly.  When you go to buy doors and windows, they have standard sizes and in order to build your walls so they fit, you'd need to know what those standard dimentions are.

Generally, I find people wanting and willing to be helpful, but often some of the information isn't all that useful, (the "not useful" isn't directed at you btw).

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Old 02-20-2013, 04:37 PM   #6
feldon30

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The instructions absolutely could be better. For now, you can include a note giving an ItemID to another item that you want to have comparable sizing.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:57 PM   #7
Armous

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feldon30 wrote:

The instructions absolutely could be better. For now, you can include a note giving an ItemID to another item that you want to have comparable sizing.

1740437547 - Inlaid Qeynos Door

3969328447 - Stone of Adoration Tile (example for tile dimension,)

3763511668 - Narrow Divider of Banded Sandalwood (I'm guessing the wider ones are same height, & 2x the width of this example.)

Those are 3 item examples.  I know the tile dimensions are standard across the variations, as well as the dividers, except some of them can be scaled larger. (The Stone of Adoration ones can't be scaled as big as other similar divider items)

Thanks for your help SMILEY

Best regards,

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Old 02-21-2013, 11:03 PM   #8
HaohmaruEQ2

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Sizing is a little tricky - even with the reference and a generalization of humanoid scale, what we've seen is that models will still come in at all sorts of random sizes internally. However, it's a fraction of a second to resize submissions on our end and we _absolutely_ try and guage the intended size. We'll always make sure the item is inline with our ingame scaling because with the variety of programs out there and the settings of each, there's a good chance it'll be off.

There are a few things that can influence the final scale we export at though - most notably texture fidelity. A submission that will be released soon, which the author may have intended for a humanoid scale, simply wouldn't hold up if we exported it that big (polygon and texture fidelity). So we opted to scale the item down and create a unique tinkered houseitem and added loads of particle (the item was SCREAMING for it SMILEY and animation effects/states to it. Our sole focus is the success of your items but we also need to maintain a fairly firm artistic bar no matter the source.

The nice thing about scale is even if we're a touch off, Design is usually great about allowing a wide scale range for everyone to adjust in-game. 

Back to texture fidelity: Working with one material requires maximizing the space of that material (particularly for house items). This can be the difference between an accepted item or a decline even if the model is superb. Many submitters may notice we'll provide feedback about reusing mapped areas instead of treating every area of the model as unique space on their texture. If a panel (for instance) is identical to another panel, it's wise to reuse the texture space for each of those panels rather than map each unique given the map limit. This allows more space on the texture for that common area and ultimately increases the texture fidelity. Creative mirroring/flipping of UVs is another way to eek more out of less. Adding polygons to give you new UV breaks so you can intentionally repeat areas of the texture is another method.

As to your original question Armous - doors are at a minimum 2meters by 3meters high in EQ2. This would feel like a single doorway in Qeynos. I'd advise making it a little larger than that for many of the points above and as a good middle ground for player scaling. Windows are about as inconsistent as it gets in EQ2, but a fair size would be 2meters by 2meters (with a frame size of your choosing) and larger from there.

If you want the absolute size (initial) for the tall divider, I will gladly get you that info! I'll follow up Friday SMILEY

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Old 02-22-2013, 01:00 PM   #9
Armous

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HaohmaruEQ2 wrote:

Sizing is a little tricky -

As to your original question Armous - doors are at a minimum 2meters by 3meters high in EQ2. This would feel like a single doorway in Qeynos. I'd advise making it a little larger than that for many of the points above and as a good middle ground for player scaling. Windows are about as inconsistent as it gets in EQ2, but a fair size would be 2meters by 2meters (with a frame size of your choosing) and larger from there.

If you want the absolute size (initial) for the tall divider, I will gladly get you that info! I'll follow up Friday

Thanks for your informative reply.  I appreciate your time and effort in helping me/us.  I guess more than dimensions, I'm interested in aspect ratios so that when an item is scaled, the aspect ratio is correct for use with a pre-existing items, like a door for instance.

So, I as I understand it, a door's aspect ratio  (width by height by depth) is 1 wide by 1.5 high by ? thickness (2 meters by 3 meters) and a window opening in a divider panel might be 1 by 1 aspect ration or square.  Since there are no see through windows available, I'd just make the window opening in the divider look like a window so you could see beyond the opening.  

It would be helpful to know the aspect ratio of the divider(s) (and tiles) including thickness.

Thanks again for your help.  BTW, I appreciate the information about fidelity.  I think this information is helpful to everyone when applying textures to the unwarped mesh.

Best regards,

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Old 02-22-2013, 05:48 PM   #10
Eden_Evergreen

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HaohmaruEQ2 wrote:

Sizing is a little tricky - ... models will still come in at all sorts of random sizes internally. ...

There are a few things that can influence the final scale we export at though - most notably texture fidelity. ...

The nice thing about scale is even if we're a touch off, Design is usually great about allowing a wide scale range for everyone to adjust in-game. 

...

Oh, thank you for that information!

I'm doing my best, but worry that my sizes will be off. Pleased to hear it's not a huge headache for you folks to make size adjustments if / when needful. SMILEY

I'll try to make the textures good enough that things can be large without looking shabby. SMILEY

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Old 02-22-2013, 11:22 PM   #11
HaohmaruEQ2

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Armous wrote:

Thanks for your informative reply.  I appreciate your time and effort in helping me/us.  I guess more than dimensions, I'm interested in aspect ratios so that when an item is scaled, the aspect ratio is correct for use with a pre-existing items, like a door for instance.

So, I as I understand it, a door's aspect ratio  (width by height by depth) is 1 wide by 1.5 high by ? thickness (2 meters by 3 meters) and a window opening in a divider panel might be 1 by 1 aspect ration or square.  Since there are no see through windows available, I'd just make the window opening in the divider look like a window so you could see beyond the opening.  

It would be helpful to know the aspect ratio of the divider(s) (and tiles) including thickness.

Thanks again for your help.  BTW, I appreciate the information about fidelity.  I think this information is helpful to everyone when applying textures to the unwarped mesh.

Best regards,

Alrighty - some dimensions! The tall divider is 2meters tall (and wide) by 1/6 of a meter deep. The thin divider is 1meter wide (also 2meters tall) and 1/6 of a meter deep.

The square floor tile is 2x2m with a thickness of 1/21 of a meter (approximately).

The rectangular floor tile is 1m by .5m with a thickness of 1/8 of a meter.

As to the thickness of a door - there is no convention. It can be any depth. In a players home, that depth is usually defined by whatever someone made the neighboring walls out of if the want it flush. Same goes for a window.

Again, I would err slightly larger than these dimensions because if the items/texture look good at this size, they'll only look crisper when players scale them smaller and hold up longer when scaled bigger.

If I didn't answer what you were after, or you'd like to know more, just ask :)

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