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Old 01-01-2005, 01:12 PM   #1
Victicu

 
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Dark Distorion Adept 3, max hit - 620
 
Nil Distorion Apprentice 2 at lvl 43, max hit - 603
 
I've had Nil Distorion for 6 levels now and it still cant compete with Dark Distortion which I've had for 20 lvls.  I have basically done the same DPS since lvl 30.  I know I only have app2 of Nil distortion as there are no 30+ sages on my server, but for gods sake it shouldnt be THAT weak.  Pretty soon Nil Distortion is going to reach mastery and at this rate it will only be slightly more powerful than Dark Distortion was.  Nil Distorion is supposed to be an upgrade...
 
I am lvl 43 and have the same DPS as a lvl 30.  Even if i did have adept 3 Nil Distortion it would add 100-150 damage to the average hit.  That is still a very sad upgrade.
 
In its current state Warlocks are not DPS....Guardians outdamage me easily....Scouts put me to shame.
 
Warlocks give up heavy armor, high hp, melee abilites, and defensive abilites to use spells.  We give up all these things to cast high damage nukes, which cost high amounts of power.  But, I see other classes that easily do as much damage as me, for little power cost.
 
I have zero tanking ability.
I die in 2-3 hits on group exp mobs.
I have no melee abilites.
I do less damage than most classes.
I run out of power faster than any other class.
 
As a warlock i have very little group utility, no evac, no disarm.  I have a couple concentration buffs, and a few buffs that are far too weak to be worth casting, as i am already blowing all my power on sub-par nukes.
 
So why am i a Warlock?  I guess I like to wear a robe. 
 

Message Edited by Victicus7 on 01-01-2005 12:19 AM

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Old 01-01-2005, 02:37 PM   #2
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I completely agree with your Nil Distortion criticisms. The problem to me seems that the forum does not want to admit our faults, instead babble on and on about how we are not gimped we are superior dps. The problem is the idea we were gimped stimmed from before Dark Distortion was originally fixed, and people still seem to think the same cries rang true afterwards. Without a Nil Distortion upgrade when we hit 37 we are once again faced with the same problems we had initially at 23. It does not seem like they tested spells at all past level 20.
 
One obstacle will be, that Wizards are equally broken in this respect, so people will try and pretend it is working as intended. Thier upgrade is also equally worthless until into the 40's with anything above app 2 being in horiffic supply if non-existant. The dps casters are doomed to be equally to thier level 30 counter-parts dps wise until a fix is made.
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Old 01-01-2005, 05:43 PM   #3
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Pretty much all of the classes are messed up after 40 since they are basically only 75% completed.
 
But don't worry - even if your class did work, the 40+ content you're supposed to enjoy with your functional Warlock doesn't even exist yet.
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Old 01-01-2005, 08:01 PM   #4
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Are you sure Adept 1+ Nil Distortion does 800+?  Because the jump from Dark Distortion App 2 to Adept 1 was about 200+ damage.
And you do not have the same dps as a lvl 30, you have 2 spells now that do 600+, which kicks [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].
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Old 01-01-2005, 08:34 PM   #5
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I am a 44 warlock from the Runnyeye server, and yes I agree that we need a few improvements to our class.As far as I've seen, encounters consisting of multiple enemies gives us an edge compared to other dps classes due to our massive AE's (300ea target and 150 ea target, then do some pillaging for power to group etc). In these battles we're highly effective.When it comes to single target mobs we're not so effective when it comes to damage output, but then again we got a lot of buffs we can use on our group mates (Toxic Grasp (adept1 drops in perma), Boon of the Shadowed. etc) which can be realy helpfull.. also the powerheal helps alot. Area root can be helpfull.. so all in all we got a great variation of skills... we are not a pure dps class, but a great addition to a group.. which in the end is what matters.as for Kamikaze, the Dark Distortion and Nil Distortion spells both share the same recast time.. so if you use one the other one can't be used within the recast time is done. :/EDIT: where does the Nil Distortion adept 1 drop?and any suggestions on what to use my ebon cluster on? SMILEY

Message Edited by Zilrion on 01-01-2005 07:39 AM

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Old 01-01-2005, 10:22 PM   #6
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The problem to me seems that the forum does not want to admit our faults, instead babble on and on about how we are not gimped we are superior dps. The problem is the idea we were gimped stimmed from before Dark Distortion was originally fixed, and people still seem to think the same cries rang true afterwards. Without a Nil Distortion upgrade when we hit 37 we are once again faced with the same problems we had initially at 23. It does not seem like they tested spells at all past level 20.

 Exactly, the game is not finished.  Anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong.  We all have to accept the fact that we are playing an extended beta and just hope that the problems are adressed and fixed asap.  As for me, I just dinged 36 last night so I  hope that it gets fixed in the next few days(yea right):smileytongue:

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Old 01-01-2005, 10:39 PM   #7
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The people who still think we are a good dps class probablly just have not made it to lvl 37 yet.  I am lvl 36 and it's easy enough to listen to the post 37 warlocks here talk about how gimped nill distortion is.  It is very disapointing to grind out the 13 levels and be so close only to find out that the spell I've been drooling over is going to sit in my book and not get used, this is just wrong. Like someone said earlier, we have no defense, we have a litte utility but certainly not concidered a utility class.  When a tank gets that new breastplate, it helps him out bigtime and it's a nice accomplishment to finish that quest or win that roll.  When a melee dps class gets a new weapon it increases his dps and he too is stoked.  To say nothing of the lack of int robes (that is a whole seperate rant) we get a new spell and that is the main way our class improves and increases damage.   We are sorcerers, we blow stuff up , that's what our nukes are for and if they are gimped we suffer greatly. 
 
 
 
 
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Old 01-01-2005, 10:43 PM   #8
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 I am also a warlock in my level twenties on the runeye server. As you said it won't be as powerful as other caharcters however i think that it is far more fun than any other characters especially "wizards". As everyone knows having fun is not enough also warlocks have to be more powerful. I also think soe has to fix that problem on their first big patch
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Old 01-01-2005, 10:50 PM   #9
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Don't get me wrong, I'm loving my warlock and this game as a whole.  I just think that when a lvl 23 spell hits harder than a lvl 37 spell that is a direct upgrade, something is broken and needs to be fixed.  The different lvls of spells , app, adept, and master are fun and should by all means impact the potency of a spell , but a 14 level difference should certainly be enough to make up for that.  I am not one of those people who whines and say "MY CLASS IS BROKEN, I'M LEAVING!!!!!!!"  I have confidence that the issue will be adressed and fixed in the near future so I'll wait paitently.  Who knows, it might even be fixed before I get my next lvl.

Message Edited by tennjed on 01-01-2005 09:52 AM

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Old 01-02-2005, 03:39 AM   #10
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Honestly. Every class feels this way. I just hope things get better. I can speak from the view of a Defiler. My lvl 12 ward currently out does my lvl 26 and I am still having to use a lvl 15 heal instead of my 25+ heal becuase its still the best. The sad thing is I heal better than my wife who is also a lvl 33 but a cleric class. In the end its all about are you having fun.
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Old 01-02-2005, 05:53 AM   #11
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its about mastering a skill, when you first get one you're novice at it. You're not completely sure how to use it, but you can...Nil Distortion hits higher and higher when you level up, Dark Distortion is maxed and can not get better (unless you buy an upgrade for it, but still you can do the same with Nil)The problem isnt this spell realy, the problem is that this is the only spell that actually deals a decent amount of damage.Ofcourse you could mix it with dark pyre(and that previous version i have forgotten the name of) but it hits for an average of 250, which isnt alot.I'd rather have That spell do more damage than the nil distortion, that way I can vary my spell use more.
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Old 01-02-2005, 07:21 AM   #12
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Kamikazie wrote:
And you do not have the same dps as a lvl 30, you have 2 spells now that do 600+, which kicks [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].


No you cant cast them both at the same time. They share the same timer.
 
 
Also, does anyone know if Devistation, our lvl 50 nuke, shares the same timer of the Distortion line?
I heard Ice Comet shares the same timer as wizards Ball of Fire line, and was wondering if it was the same for us.
 
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Old 01-02-2005, 09:20 AM   #13
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Nil Distirtion should take off where Dark Distortion left off ...!
 
Nill should start nuking in the mid 600's and easily be at 850+ by lvl 43 ..!
 
 
 
Also, Warlocks should get another main nuke on a different timer such as WIzards do between their Ice and Heat spells ...!
 
 
 
 
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Old 01-02-2005, 09:47 AM   #14
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Not sure about level 35+, but at my current level 33 i do abseloutely crap to AOE damage where my single damage is 100% fare superio to my AOEs, especially if we compare it to a wizards AOE. So im not quite sure how you got to that we warlocks do massive aoe damage, so fare my aoes do stum, stifle and debuff + 85-180dmg where i can fire my single DD s.cloud as my primary (2-5s declay?) and d.distortion every 10s, + dots, which i find pretty nasty (ruff 1200 damage every 14 seconds + a 55-80 tick dot)!, so id say our single dmg is way better then our aoes, well at my current level it is.Well to the Nil Distortion, ack ack i can only hope that is something that will be "fixed" befor i reach that level, i whould hate to feel im playing lv 23-37 all over again and especially feeling weaker.Otherwise ill just begin playing an Alt at lv 40, SMILEY

Zilrion wrote:As far as I've seen, encounters consisting of multiple enemies gives us an edge compared to other dps classes due to our massive AE's (300ea target and 150 ea target, then do some pillaging for power to group etc). In these battles we're highly effective.When it comes to single target mobs we're not so effective when it comes to damage output, but then again we got a lot of buffs we can use on our group mates (Toxic Grasp (adept1 drops in perma), Boon of the Shadowed. etc) which can be realy helpfull..01-01-2005 07:39 AM

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Old 01-02-2005, 11:28 AM   #15
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at lvl39 my nil distortion hits for around 740 max, and usually in the 600's. This is a big improvement over my adept 3 dark distortion, but comparable to wizards, with their superior evac spell, the 100 damage more they can do at the same level just doesnt make us very balanced.
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Old 01-02-2005, 11:31 AM   #16
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my nil distortion is also adept3
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Old 01-03-2005, 11:15 AM   #17
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I'm in complete agreement. Even worse, other people know how gimped we are and are looking at rogue type classes instead on us for DPS. And I don't blame them. Why get a Warlock when u can get better DPS and the ability to evac. I'm sorry, someone mentioned we're made as a support class. I disagree 100%. We can't do anything usefull. The reason I initially went with Warlock was that SOE had stated that Wizards and Warlocks would be the same. Just different spell lines, one used elemental type spells, and the other would be diseased and poison based. They've obviousely changed their mind on this issue. And that's great. I think variation is needed. But for God's sake give us something we can use. Make something usefull out of the Warlock so people will actually say "Hey there's a 38 Warlock LFG...grab him" instead of " There's nothing but a 38 Warlock LFG...maybe something else will come up, give it 5 min."
 
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Old 01-03-2005, 02:41 PM   #18
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Victicus7 wrote:
Dark Distorion Adept 3, max hit - 620
 
Nil Distorion Apprentice 2 at lvl 43, max hit - 603
 
...
I run out of power faster than any other class.
...
As a warlock i have very little group utility, no evac, no disarm. 
...


Taken Out from the Wizards Board:
 
lvl46 wizard:
Spell Breakdown:          Min--Max--Hits-----Total-----Avg
(Primary Combat Spells)
Piercing Icicles app2    - 55----80---3688--257057--69.70
Ball of Flames Adept3  - 273--927--1107--752916--680.14
Immolation Adept1        - 128--407--1782--476340--267.31
Flamestrike app2          - 104--209--126-----21323--169.23 -- Replaced
 
also taken out from another thread:
45 Wiz - Averrgae DPS 80
47 Gurdian - Averrgae DPS 70
47 Troub - Averrgae DPS 35
47 Assassian - Averrgae DPS 95
47 Swashbuck - Averrgae DPS 100
47 Cleric - Averrgae DPS 0
 
So compared to what you have said (in first paragraph), yes Guardians seem to have a huge dps, scouts too, but NO Wizards are not better.
Comparing to the above damage table, you said you hit ~600 with Dark Distortion adept3, and about the same with Nil Distortion. I guess both can be casted at the same time, as currently with 27 i had not a single spell like tanks have that cant be cast when an upgrade spell had been casted, Dont know recast time on Nil Distortion but as it is an upgrad i guess i can count with the 11seconds from Dark Dist. So with only those 2 spells you make 600+600 = 1200 in 11 seconds, thats OVER 100dps, so even your tool is a little bugged or u cant calculate simple things. Taking in a simple 150dmg spell too, you would make more then everyone in the list of 47 guys on dps.
 
As a warlock i have very little group utility, no evac, no disarm. 
Read your spells again and learn your class instead of grinding it thru without knowledge of your spells, NO other class has that power regenerating abilities like we have, and if you would have ever run into an add while the healers got out of power and you are the only one that can give the healer the power he needs to keep the party alive, you would know what place you have...
 
I run out of power faster than any other class.
That sentence just says me one thing: You dont know anything of what you are doing. Ok im only at 27 at the moment, but im always the VERY last in groups running out of power, even with no break casting. At 27 i got my 2nd Health to mana spell, i can cast both, and replenish only with this 12% mana in a few seconds, no other class has that power, and with a good healer in your group, the damage you do to yourself is just not worth any word. No other class has that huge out of combat mana regen buffs, which makes every group much more efficient on experience per time.
 
So what did you expected warlock to be? The Ruler class that outdamages wizards triple times? We do outdamage them if we want to, we have double the mana at the end of combat then a wizard has. And be carefull what to wish tanks like guardians in case of their high dps, if they could not do those we would be the one paying for it when he looses aggro...
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Old 01-03-2005, 05:48 PM   #19
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Yeah, see the thing is you can only cast nil distortion, and the time in between casting it and being able to recast it is filled with crap 150dmg spells that adept 1's dont exist for.No, warlocks should not be the first class to run out of power, however our AE's are very taxing on the mana pool given their low damage, long cast time, and long recast times.Our mana regenerating powers are minimal at best. We get a 300mana buff that lasts 3 minutes, but at the end of the 3 minutes everyone in the group loses 300 mana, rather than the 300 mana max. The only point of doing this spell is if you know everyone will be burned on mana within 2.5 minutes, which basically just doesnt happen. Then we get a replenishment for someone else in the group at the cost of health to ourself. This i like, but it barely does anything to the other, maybe not even a single heals worth to a priest. Adept 1's do not exist on my server for this spell either. Then we get a spell, that also lacks any adepts, that taps the enemy encounter for mana and returns it to others in the group. It ticks for something like 15mana to each person in the group for 45 seconds.So, all in all, would you rather have someone that, if were to stop casting nukes could spend all their time replenishing themselves and others (and would require heals in the process), or would you rather have someone who could do 100dps.

Message Edited by Effulgence on 01-03-2005 04:54 AM

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Old 01-03-2005, 06:33 PM   #20
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Effulgence wrote:
Yeah, see the thing is you can only cast nil distortion, and the time in between casting it and being able to recast it is filled with crap 150dmg spells that adept 1's dont exist for.

...
So, all in all, would you rather have someone that, if were to stop casting nukes could spend all their time replenishing themselves and others (and would require heals in the process), or would you rather have someone who could do 100dps.

Message Edited by Effulgence on 01-03-2005 04:54 AM



Can anyone confirm that Nil and Dark Distort are on the same timer? Would be very strange as there is really not a single spell except that being on the same timer...

Also said, even if that is true (which would be really bad), if i want to, at lvl27, i can do:

DarkDist: ~300 (only at app3, adept1 afaik would be ~400)

Suffo Breath: ~200 (adept1)

Ice Spike: ~180 (adept1)

in the little time between first round freezing whorl (35 per tick, app3), second round incinerate (50per tick, app3), they tick usually 3 times before next round.

 

So my current dps at lvl27 with that is 70.

 

Calced now i would have adept3 Dark Dist (which is really just having a little time searching the resources or having the 10 to 20g to buy it), i could do 600 average with it at my current lvl, and the spell is still orange. I think with an adept3 of it, you should be able at lvl40 to hit for a minimum of 800 or 900., but if i would do 600 instead my current 300, i would have 98 dps at lvl27. Any you want to tell me you just cant get over the 100dps if you want?

 

So my question to calulate it really for a 40+ warlock, what are damges at this level for those spells, app3 and/or adept1:

Dark Emenations

Noxious Bolts

Null Absolution

Aura of Darkness (Dot)

Dark Pyre

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Old 01-03-2005, 08:02 PM   #21
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I agree with the original poster. I did not pick the Warlock for any other reason but to do damage. Obviously, I made the wrong decision. At level 26 I'm already feeling how useless I really am when compared to scouts. Less damage, less utility, less armor, less HP, more MP consumption. Really, what is my advantage here? What advantage do we really have except a cool title and a bat morph? I don't mind that Wizards would be able to outdamage us at all. However, that scouts and even guardians do it. Well, you start to wonder if SOE really has any clue what balance is. We already have the lowest HP, lowest armor, and we are with Wizards the most MP dependant ones out there. Why do we not deal the best damage along with said Wizards? It puzzles me.
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Old 01-03-2005, 08:12 PM   #22
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Yes they do run on the same timer.  I think you will agree with us when you get nill distortion that it is sub-par to what it a lvl 37 nuke should be.  When I was your level I was loving life also and had many of the same arguments that you have right now.  I still say that nill distortion is just waiting the same revamp that dark distortion had.  Remember the feeling of getting dark distortion before it got it's upgrade?  That was just awful, but at least then we could cast blaze right after it.  I'll say it again, when you grind out 14 levels and get an upgrade to your best spell, only to have it sit in your spellbook and not get used.....something is broken and needs to be fixed. 
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Old 01-03-2005, 08:13 PM   #23
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dbl post!

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Old 01-03-2005, 08:13 PM   #24
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Well i cant agree im no 22 on magic dmg list on runneyeye server, currently do around 820 whith my Nil Disortion. if u look at list its a few Wiz under me on dmg list some even at same lvl as me (44). and they do in avrage 100 dmg less then me.
So i must say im very happy whith spells and all utilitys a warlock have.
 
 
 
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Old 01-03-2005, 08:35 PM   #25
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Well i cant agree im no 22 on magic dmg list on runneyeye server, currently do around 820 whith my Nil Disortion. if u look at list its a few Wiz under me on dmg list some even at same lvl as me (44). and they do in avrage 100 dmg less then me.
So i must say im very happy whith spells and all utilitys a warlock have.

What grade is your spell?  When did you start using it?  What did it hit for when you first got it at lvl 37 compared to dark distortion?  I'm looking forward to nill at 44, but my issue is that if it was not going to hit hard until lvl 44 then why the heck do we get it at lvl 37? 

 

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Old 01-03-2005, 09:25 PM   #26
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its still funny to read all the boards here... Scouts whining about Wizards, Wizards whining about Guardians, Guardians whining about this and that and so on... Its the very same in every subclass board, on every page of it you find at least one "i feel so gimped 40+" thread. And Why?!? Just as u dont know how spells do work. Start searching the boards for basic guides on what difference between Adepts, Master and Apprentice spells are, learn what INT Mod does in practice, (i deal 20% to 40% more damage only thru INT eqipment), and if you want to compare things really then get some classes together that have their main spells on comparable levels. Sure if you have your main spells only on app2 why not should a scout or guardian with master/adept spells outdamage you? if they would not no one would ever pay for them that [email protected]: I did the time to take a look onto your eqipment on eq2players and i would really appreciate everyone else that agrees with him doing so and then rethinking why he does that low damage
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Old 01-03-2005, 09:46 PM   #27
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Kamikazie wrote:
Are you sure Adept 1+ Nil Distortion does 800+? Because the jump from Dark Distortion App 2 to Adept 1 was about 200+ damage.
And you do not have the same dps as a lvl 30, you have 2 spells now that do 600+, which kicks [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].

App2 to AdeptI wasn't even a 100+ jump..Dark distortion(AppI) max hit was 189Dark distortion(AppII) max hit was 229Dark distortion(AdeptI) max hit was 308Parsed Data
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Old 01-03-2005, 10:28 PM   #28
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ok Thyriel first off read the subject title... Warlock 40+ ... at lvl 27 yes Warlocks are powerful, but never grow any more powerful... at 27 you are about at your peak, your dps will grow very little in the next 20-25 lvls
 
 

Thyriel wrote:
I guess both can be casted at the same time, as currently with 27 i had not a single spell like tanks have that cant be cast when an upgrade spell had been casted, Dont know recast time on Nil Distortion but as it is an upgrad i guess i can count with the 11seconds from Dark Dist. So with only those 2 spells you make 600+600 = 1200 in 11 seconds, thats OVER 100dps, so even your tool is a little bugged or u cant calculate simple things. Taking in a simple 150dmg spell too, you would make more then everyone in the list of 47 guys on dps.
 

 
 
Dark Distortion and Nil Distortion can NOT be casted at the same time, dont know how many times i must say this
 

Thyriel wrote:
 
As a warlock i have very little group utility, no evac, no disarm. 
Read your spells again and learn your class instead of grinding it thru without knowledge of your spells, NO other class has that power regenerating abilities like we have, and if you would have ever run into an add while the healers got out of power and you are the only one that can give the healer the power he needs to keep the party alive, you would know what place you have...

 
many classes get power regenerating spells, to say no other class gets our power regenerating ability is rediculous...and dont think dark pilliaging will not make you king...it cost nearly 300 power to cast and gives back around 10-15 power a tick for around a min, which is a trival amount when casters have well over 2000 power at the lvl you get the spell
 
The only buff i use regularly is Boon of the Shadowed which goes off 100% of the time and is a very effctive spell to put on the tank...other buffs dont fire often enough or are too weak to bother with.
 
 

Thyriel wrote:
 
I run out of power faster than any other class.
That sentence just says me one thing: You dont know anything of what you are doing. Ok im only at 27 at the moment, but im always the VERY last in groups running out of power, even with no break casting. At 27 i got my 2nd Health to mana spell, i can cast both, and replenish only with this 12% mana in a few seconds, no other class has that power, and with a good healer in your group, the damage you do to yourself is just not worth any word. No other class has that huge out of combat mana regen buffs, which makes every group much more efficient on experience per time.

 
Your group pulls very slow then or you are nuking very little...the tank i group with holds aggro very well and im always chain nuking Nil Distorion, Dark Pyre, Soul Flay, Aura of Darkness, and Chaotic Maelstrom.  And i use all my hp->power abilities in between nukes.  and "Huge out of combat regen buffs"?? lol where are those cause i havnt seen them yet.
 
 

Thyriel wrote:

So my current dps at lvl27 with that is 70.


If you read the subject it says 40+ warlock...i know how much DPS a lvl 27 warlock can do...i have done the same DPS as a 27 warlock for the past 20 levels. 


Thyriel wrote:
 
@victious: I did the time to take a look onto your eqipment on eq2players and i would really appreciate everyone else that agrees with him doing so and then rethinking why he does that low damage
 

 
Why the personal attack? and whats wrong with my gear...theres no gear my lvl on sale on the brokers...everything i have i get quested or dropped in exp group...not to mention gear has nothing to do with how much damage i do...i think my gear is pretty decent for my lvl.
 
i love how someone lvl 27 can tell me what its like to be lvl 40.

Message Edited by Victicus7 on 01-03-2005 09:32 AM

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Old 01-03-2005, 10:42 PM   #29
Victicu

 
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sigh..sorry double post

Message Edited by Victicus7 on 01-03-2005 10:00 AM

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Old 01-03-2005, 10:42 PM   #30
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Thyriel wrote:
and if you want to compare things really then get some classes together that have their main spells on comparable levels. Sure if you have your main spells only on app2 why not should a scout or guardian with master/adept spells outdamage you? if they would not no one would ever pay for them that much.

Everyone i group with has app2...adept1 are too rare and there are no tradeskillers making adept3
 

 

Message Edited by Victicus7 on 01-03-2005 09:48 AM

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