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Old 08-19-2011, 08:37 AM   #1
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Ok here's my Story.. Not pointing anyone out in particular, and my thread will prob get ignored, or moved. I've played this game since launch. I've been a loyal customer, and have played eq1 well before this aswell. I've always looked up to you raiders with better gear then me, and how much more smoothly they've moved through zones etc, in casual play.

I quit the game when DoV launched because i didn't want to relearn a game that ive been playing for what? 7 yrs now? I recently came back now approx a week ago, and i've always been a above and beyond player in researching learning, and just overall understanding the game, and since ive been back i've looked at all the gear of what i have, and what i should get.. now in recent expansions there was always the OMG items.. I had to have that thats so awesome OMG.. well now everything seems soo moot, or LAME.. you look at one piece, and the only difference on the better is more potency. I feel that you guys should take idia's from the playerbase rather then making stuff up as you go, and make whatever armor you think will work. PLEASE FIX THE OMG FACTOR IN THIS GAME. It's a lame Drag on game when you're like me, and love to excel in gearing you ONE toon, that you pretty much ALWAYS play.. And the gear just has no accomplishment feeling when you get it.. Also SERIOUSLY RAID GEAR should decimate casual gear, or heroic gear.. Why do you think people raid, and dedicate there time? Obviously GM's need to make a Pure GM raiding guild, and see how it feels when you get items from Raids, that are equal effects of some Heroic items.. Wont be fun, wasting hours on a single mob would it?

While i'm ranting... FIX the PLATE FIGHTERS.. I understand that crit mit is the God of everything this expac.. but if a brawler can tank a raid encounter with ease, a SK, Pally, or Zerker, should be able to take equal hits, maybe not in the perspective of Avoiding them like the Brawler, but Increase Mitigation, or Allow agi to affect Avoidance again.. or Lower mobs Strikethrough chance, idunno but do something.. Tanks were so Equal in SF in my oppinion it was insane. It was about who knew how to play them better, and i know this because i ran just about all SF with 2 tanks in my guild.. a SK, and Monk, and we'd swap back and forth and tank everything encounter.

***excuse my wall of text, and my Text errors, but please fix the omg factor in gear, hope the community can come up with some good suggestions, and use them.. Id recommend listening to the higher end raid guild community.. Since most this game is them nowadays.

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Old 08-19-2011, 09:40 AM   #2
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Can't work out whether this is trolling or not, so going to see if anyone else replies before saying anything haha.

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Old 08-19-2011, 11:58 AM   #3
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No it's not a troll.. It's serious the OMG factor on gear is gone, it's boring as heck ask any player atm.. Gear is complete boring. and you get like no accomplishment feeling when you obtain items..

As in gear i'm talking stats, not apparence to make it more clear.. Stats just don't have that Awesome OMG effect on people anymore without proc's etc attached to them.

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Old 08-19-2011, 12:01 PM   #4
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I definitely agree in regards to gear. Everything is so copy paste there is very little that is new or suprising. Take a slot for example. Your base legendary is 65 this, 65 that, X effect one, Y effect two, Z effect three.

In the past people were excited to see gear from the harder group zones and the X2s and X4s. It was man that is a cool effect, I wish it was on my gear, guess I will have to find where it dropped and then go get it.

Some effects were only on items of a certain difficulty, some effects were on items from only one zone, some effects were only on one item.

You wanted to go look it up to see if there was anything else like it. Maybe that effect is on a nother piece of gear from another zone and I just haven't seen it? You wanted to go to specific zones because you knew "man, this awesome neck drop there."

Now? You pretty much know what you are going to get ahead of time, heck even the increments of increases are fixed? Take the slot I mentioned above. You know that they are just going to be 65 + some more of this, 65+ some more of that, X plus a little more effect one,  Y plus a little more effect two, and Z plus a little more effect three.

Even the increments are pretty fixed. It is not like you see the whole range of 65- top end. Nope. You see 65 + a number with nothing in between, then 65 + another number with nothing in between, etc.

And it doesn't matter really where it came from. A neck is a neck is a neck pretty much if it is of the same "quality" grade.

There is no OMG factor in gear anymore, and certainly no suprise.

What a shame too. 

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Old 08-19-2011, 12:06 PM   #5
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Kenazeer wrote:

I definitely agree in regards to gear. Everything is so copy paste there is very little that is new or suprising. Take a slot for example. Your base legendary is 65 this, 65 that, X effect one, Y effect two, Z effect three.

In the past people were excited to see gear from the harder group zones and the X2s and X4s. It was man that is a cool effect, I wish it was on my gear, guess I will have to find where it dropped and then go get it.

Some effects were only on items of a certain difficulty, some effects were on items from only one zone, some effects were only on one item.

You wanted to go look it up to see if there was anything else like it. Maybe that effect is on a nother piece of gear from another zone and I just haven't seen it? You wanted to go to specific zones because you knew "man, this awesome neck drop there."

Now? You pretty much know what you are going to get ahead of time, heck even the increments of increases are fixed? Take the slot I mentioned above. You know that they are just going to be 65 + some more of this, 65+ some more of that, X plus a little more effect one,  Y plus a little more effect two, and Z plus a little more effect three.

Even the increments are pretty fixed. It is not like you see the whole range of 65- top end. Nope. You see 65 + a number with nothing in between, then 65 + another number with nothing in between, etc.

And it doesn't matter really where it came from. A neck is a neck is a neck pretty much if it is of the same "quality" grade.

There is no OMG factor in gear anymore, and certainly no suprise.

What a shame too. 

Agree, this is the point i'm trying to make, and it takes a lot of the fun out of the game.. There should also Greater Gap between raid and non-raid gear too.. it's just rediculous how close they are.

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Old 08-19-2011, 12:46 PM   #6
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They gave us exactly what we asked for, balanced itemization.

No one realized that in order to balance it with the manpower they have, that meant taking _all_ the flavor out of the game.  It really shouldn't have been a surprise, what happened when racials were balanced after years of player screaming?  They became very balanced and un-interesting.

Yes, now you need a good spreadsheet for your gear, plugging into the spreadsheet and charting your stats overtime provides some super exciting, extremely predictable stat gains with no real 'jumps' anywhere along the line.  It's all highly balanced and all.

You're high end folks will scream at the idea of OMG items being sprinkled into different content areas and they will vehemently defend the status quo while also B&Ming just as heavily about top-end gear itemization. 

TBH, its my opinion the hypocracy of the playerbase and their long standing demands for balance that have brought us to exactly where we are now, points on a spreadsheet of steady, uninteresting steps of progression.

What we have is a prime example of being wary of what you wish for.

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Old 08-19-2011, 12:50 PM   #7
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i never asked for this as did a lot of players, not sure whom you are referring to because at DoV launch 90% my friends and guild including myself quit over this.

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Old 08-19-2011, 12:57 PM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:

They gave us exactly what we asked for, balanced itemization.

No one realized that in order to balance it with the manpower they have, that meant taking _all_ the flavor out of the game.  It really shouldn't have been a surprise, what happened when racials were balanced after years of player screaming?  They became very balanced and un-interesting.

Yes, now you need a good spreadsheet for your gear, plugging into the spreadsheet and charting your stats overtime provides some super exciting, extremely predictable stat gains with no real 'jumps' anywhere along the line.  It's all highly balanced and all.

You're high end folks will scream at the idea of OMG items being sprinkled into different content areas and they will vehemently defend the status quo while also B&Ming just as heavily about top-end gear itemization. 

TBH, its my opinion the hypocracy of the playerbase and their long standing demands for balance that have brought us to exactly where we are now, points on a spreadsheet of steady, uninteresting steps of progression.

What we have is a prime example of being wary of what you wish for.

I think this is a load of garbage.

The ones complaining about itemization were those that do not have access to high end items.  They wanted items to basically look like high end and that is what they got, everything cookie cutter.  Most raiders will tell you that some of the best itemization they loved is Avatars and SoH.

SoH because of how there were unique, very powerful items, that were rare drops not necessarily fro encounters only a select few could kill.  And Avatars because items were extremely powerful, but because of the contested game only available to 1 guild per server.

So, what people want are powerful, rare items...not necessarily regulated to access by 1 guild, but instead just rare drops.

This is actually what the intent of the Mythical drops are supposed to be with their rare drop chance in the Drunder zones off of the bosses.  The items are still missing the uniqueness that people want though.  Yeah they are powerful and people want them....but they can make them powerful AND unique to really make people happy.  Than add a handful of other unique and powerful items as rare drops from some of the other mobs throughout the zones.

I do recommend that if you have a unique idea that you would like to see on your subclass type Mythical that you let the devs know since they are probably still working on them.  Give them lots of ideas outside the box that people really want to see.  Maybe they can use some of the ideas, and than hopefully some they don't use they keep in mind for additional rare items going forward.  We need more SoH type zone loot.

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Old 08-19-2011, 01:01 PM   #9
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Bruener wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

TBH, its my opinion the hypocracy of the playerbase and their long standing demands for balance that have brought us to exactly where we are now, points on a spreadsheet of steady, uninteresting steps of progression.

I think this is a load of garbage.

So, what people want are powerful, rare items...not necessarily regulated to access by 1 guild, but instead just rare drops.

I rest my case =)

You're talking about items and mobs that maybe 10% of the playerbase will see? How does that help the OP?  The same principle needs to exist and varying levels of gameplay or its just catering to too small of a minority.

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Old 08-19-2011, 01:20 PM   #10
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I agree, gear in this expansion is the most boring ever. I feel like I'm just looting fine steel weapons again because everything has the same stats and it just increases incrementally.

I do agree that balance was the goal, however this was the worst possible implementation of it imaginable. Honestly, it would be better to have unbalanced gear.

Bring back interesting and useful procs and actually omit crit bonus and potency from an item (holy cow, I know, I just proposed an item without CB or Pot)

The tool used to design all this is (i'm sure) wonderfully balanced and time saving, but don't believe for a second that it doesn't have other costs.

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Old 08-19-2011, 01:22 PM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

You're talking about items and mobs that maybe 10% of the playerbase will see? 

Never raided SoH did you~

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Old 08-19-2011, 01:30 PM   #12
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Gaige wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

You're talking about items and mobs that maybe 10% of the playerbase will see? 

Never raided SoH did you~

Yes obviously, i didn't kill it all back then...  We still to this day farm an item in there for our newbie healers...

However he was talking specificaly about the myths that are droping in DoV, and I stand by my comment.

If we want to add items like the rare drops that were on each of the SoH named peppered thru other content, then sure, I'll agree.  But you and I both know that will turn into some raiders upset cause they feel like they need to do something 'easy' to get something they might 'want'.

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Old 08-19-2011, 01:42 PM   #13
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Here's a example.......

Rok.. You see a Raider run by with a Red Dragon shield.. You inspect him see it has a nice clicky and sweet stats..

So you look it up... And you farm the heck out of it, tanking and killing Trakanon 400time (true story) Finally drops..

And OMG you got something with a awesome game changing clicky, and cool stats.. You feel like you accomplished getting a awesome item.

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Old 08-19-2011, 01:49 PM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

However he was talking specificaly about the myths that are droping in DoV, and I stand by my comment.

Ya thankfully mythicals will be hardmode drops only.  So that is at least one thing I can agree with.  Too bad they're just the same as fabled though, a generic 10% increase over HM fabled from the same slot.

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Old 08-19-2011, 01:54 PM   #15
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Gaige wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

However he was talking specificaly about the myths that are droping in DoV, and I stand by my comment.

Ya thankfully mythicals will be hardmode drops only.  So that is at least one thing I can agree with.  Too bad they're just the same as fabled though, a generic 10% increase over HM fabled from the same slot.

Yeah which kills the accomplishment feeling... Sony prob doesn't care, i watched the fan fair videos (would never waste my money to go to one, seems kinda lame, but not judging ) and saw how they want you to just agree with whatever garbage is given.. this game has been totally destroyed and instead of fixing dumb stuff they should look at the bigger picture.. DoV could of been AMAZING, but the GEAR / ITEMS made it complete boring and repetative.

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Old 08-19-2011, 01:59 PM   #16
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Gaige wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

However he was talking specificaly about the myths that are droping in DoV, and I stand by my comment.

Ya thankfully mythicals will be hardmode drops only.  So that is at least one thing I can agree with.  Too bad they're just the same as fabled though, a generic 10% increase over HM fabled from the same slot.

I agree with the mythicals where they are (and yes they should have an interesting effect as well). I agree conceptually with the OP though.  There needs to be some rare 'golden carrot' drops in all/various levels of gameplay where said item far out weighs the normal item weighting of that content tier.  These golden carrots keep people interested and treadmilling when they otherwise are not.

Be that some of the interesting heroic drops, some interesting em drops (similar to the drops on the first 3 named of SoH) and some interesting harder drops (similar to the last 2 nameds). 

I, like others, favor this 'soh style' of rare carrots out there, but I strongly believe some, particularly higher spectrum players will be upset if we go back to it, as they'll B&M about doing something trivial repeatedly for something rare and fun.

My previous post in this thread was simply blaming the previous years of complaining about farming rare items, and goofy itemization in general, with where we are today.  SoE listened, and we got what we as players asked for, bland balance.

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Old 08-19-2011, 02:00 PM   #17
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I'd rather not have to farm some must have item from content that is otherwise meaningless to my entire guild.

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Old 08-19-2011, 02:05 PM   #18
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Gaige wrote:

I'd rather not have to farm some must have item from content that is otherwise meaningless to my entire guild.

I rest my case.

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Old 08-19-2011, 02:06 PM   #19
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Explain why I should?  Where is the fun in doing say EM Throne for items our alts wouldn't even use for a chance at one rare drop that would probably drop 1 out of every 10 trips?

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Old 08-19-2011, 02:22 PM   #20
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Gaige wrote:

Explain why I should?  Where is the fun in doing say EM Throne for items our alts wouldn't even use for a chance at one rare drop that would probably drop 1 out of every 10 trips?

If say Sisters (post nerf) from SoH was located in some other zone.  You'd have been equally upset farming all those quest items for primarily healer/fighters.

Unless their going to build zones like SoH that aren't rigid in what you kill and what order, thats what we're going to end up with (something in an annoying place needing farming).

I wouldn't be surprised if i could dig up a post from you or someone else complaining about having to kill the other nameds in SoH in order to pull Byzolla, since thats all you cared about, right?

My point is, no matter how its is structured, some (particularly at the top end) will complain about farming easier stuff to get to something they want.  Others (often lower tier raiders) want the rare item to work for.  It presents a duality, one that I would argue was better than the bland straightline itemization we have now, but none the less, if we return to it, some will complain (as you just did) at the idea of anything interesting being on something you personally have out-classed challenge wise.

So yes, bring on the SoH style again, but I predict you'll be upset about it for the very reasons you just stated a few posts ago.

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Old 08-19-2011, 03:03 PM   #21
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I would like to see more unique effects.

Instead of AMMO summoning bows why not have a bow that has a % chance to use a special arrow instead. This way it becomes a form of ammo reduction and also is a slight dps buff.

I want to see many of the old clicky type effect items like the gozak helms and brawler yael  weapon become items but instead of clickies it becomes a random proc with a tag that reads something like 2.0ppm but can only trigger once every 60 seconds. This type of item tag was used on the avatar stoneskin boots in order to limit an overpowered proc.

I'd like to see certain items like melee weapons and wands and bows has a METER type effect where they fill up during active combat and can discharge a large aoe/direct damage hit. The meter time can vary depending on weapon drop location. Heroic drops can charge up in 45 secs, raid drops can charge up in 90secs.

In other words get creative.

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Old 08-19-2011, 03:03 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

My point is, no matter how its is structured, some (particularly at the top end) will complain about farming easier stuff to get to something they want.  Others (often lower tier raiders) want the rare item to work for.  It presents a duality, one that I would argue was better than the bland straightline itemization we have now, but none the less, if we return to it, some will complain (as you just did) at the idea of anything interesting being on something you personally have out-classed challenge wise.

If Silius (or another dev) reads this thread, I'm sure he'll just write it off as people whining, which happens no matter how they try to set up itemization.  We're stuck with this boring itemization, since there's no amount of whiny posts that would justify undoing all the work they've put into the DoV system.  Plus, I'm pretty sure Silius et al. don't even understand what we liked about the old system, even with all the efforts to explain it.

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Old 08-19-2011, 03:10 PM   #23
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

My point is, no matter how its is structured, some (particularly at the top end) will complain about farming easier stuff to get to something they want.  Others (often lower tier raiders) want the rare item to work for.  It presents a duality, one that I would argue was better than the bland straightline itemization we have now, but none the less, if we return to it, some will complain (as you just did) at the idea of anything interesting being on something you personally have out-classed challenge wise.

If Silius (or another dev) reads this thread, I'm sure he'll just write it off as people whining, which happens no matter how they try to set up itemization.  We're stuck with this boring itemization, since there's no amount of whiny posts that would justify undoing all the work they've put into the DoV system.  Plus, I'm pretty sure Silius et al. don't even understand what we liked about the old system, even with all the efforts to explain it.

You probably are right, but I did my best to articulate the issue.  I wasn't argueing with Gaige just for the sake of argueing with Gaige =)

I do feel like SJ inherited the producer role unexpectedly, alot of us uniformly said fix classes and itemization.  And from what i can see that is what has been happening.  I personally find the class fixes are going well and makes things interesting.  The itemization though, is something that never should be balanced and tuned to the level it is.  The very nature of imballance serves to make the treadmilling more interesting.

I do feel what they built can be used to itemize 95% of an expansion, we just need that last 5% done by hand and to 'break the rules' a little for flavor.

I can say, we no longer have OP procs that need to be re-tuned every 6 months now! 

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Old 08-19-2011, 05:59 PM   #24
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

My point is, no matter how its is structured, some (particularly at the top end) will complain about farming easier stuff to get to something they want.  Others (often lower tier raiders) want the rare item to work for.  It presents a duality, one that I would argue was better than the bland straightline itemization we have now, but none the less, if we return to it, some will complain (as you just did) at the idea of anything interesting being on something you personally have out-classed challenge wise.

If Silius (or another dev) reads this thread, I'm sure he'll just write it off as people whining, which happens no matter how they try to set up itemization.  We're stuck with this boring itemization, since there's no amount of whiny posts that would justify undoing all the work they've put into the DoV system.  Plus, I'm pretty sure Silius et al. don't even understand what we liked about the old system, even with all the efforts to explain it.

You probably are right, but I did my best to articulate the issue.  I wasn't argueing with Gaige just for the sake of argueing with Gaige =)

I do feel like SJ inherited the producer role unexpectedly, alot of us uniformly said fix classes and itemization.  And from what i can see that is what has been happening.  I personally find the class fixes are going well and makes things interesting.  The itemization though, is something that never should be balanced and tuned to the level it is.  The very nature of imballance serves to make the treadmilling more interesting.

I do feel what they built can be used to itemize 95% of an expansion, we just need that last 5% done by hand and to 'break the rules' a little for flavor.

I can say, we no longer have OP procs that need to be re-tuned every 6 months now! 

They need look at the classes more, they are extremely unbalanced atm, and when Beastlords launch with there 2 aa tree's (player) , and (pet) it will become even more unbalanced.. they did a horriable job on class balance this expac also lol.. Idunno how people are so blind.

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Old 08-19-2011, 06:04 PM   #25
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The devs stated multiple times at Fan Faire that it isn't their intention to balance Beastlords - they will be overpowered, period.

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Old 08-19-2011, 07:23 PM   #26
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Gaige wrote:

Explain why I should?  Where is the fun in doing say EM Throne for items our alts wouldn't even use for a chance at one rare drop that would probably drop 1 out of every 10 trips?

This is part of the problem, actually. Raid progression is so rigid that people who have progressed further may as well be playing a different game than those who have not progressed much at all. In my opinion, the best solution would be to make the differences in power far less significant, so that while those doing more difficult content will derive advantages from their gear, they won't totally trivialize the lower-end content. That, combined with valuable rare drops in all levels of content, will ensure that more of the content remains relevant for the majority of players. Heck, they could even try to sprinkle a few sought-after items into heroic content as well, so that being able to raid regularly doesn't obsolete half of the game. It's all about removing the stratification of the playerbase so that everybody has more engaging content available to them.

Regarding grinding instances for the chance at rare drops, many studies have shown that people respond better to greater, random rewards than to smaller, incremental rewards, so it's likely better in the long run.

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Old 08-20-2011, 01:34 PM   #27
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Gaige wrote:

The devs stated multiple times at Fan Faire that it isn't their intention to balance Beastlords - they will be overpowered, period.

I don't know about that....I could easily see it swing the opposite to start because people will play them regardless, and than a bumping up later to probably make them slightly OP'd.

They will be a Fighter for itemization purposes but be a T1 DPS when able to actually utilize their pet.

As long as they aren't doing any tanking there is enough room for a T1 DPS type class since the spread on DPS has made them such a necessity in todays game.

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Old 08-20-2011, 02:38 PM   #28
Gaige

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The_Cheeseman wrote:

In my opinion, the best solution would be to make the differences in power far less significant, so that while those doing more difficult content will derive advantages from their gear, they won't totally trivialize the lower-end content

Please go look at PQ, EM and HM gear and then understand that the only significant differences in power that exist between them is in the amount of critical mitigation each set has.

They literally can't make the differences in power any smaller.  Its tiny as is.  Its not like we have avatar gear anymore, gear that actually did dramatically change how good you were.

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Old 08-20-2011, 02:48 PM   #29
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Personally, I miss those fantastic items that were crazy-rare drops.  Last expansion I regularly pugged a whole bunch of zones, despite being in one of the top raid guilds on my server, because there were little fancy items with cool effects that I wanted.  I had different sets of gear for different situations, sprinkled with pieces of rare heroic loot.  Now I feel like it's pretty much pointless to do just about anything but raid.  There are no upgrades, period.  

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Old 08-20-2011, 07:46 PM   #30
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then SOE goes in and nerfs all the old clickys and fancy items because they are not "balanced" anymore.

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