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Old 03-26-2007, 08:27 PM   #1
TerminalDogmaCS

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OK, I've just about had enough of it. Many people who have played this game over the past 2+ years have had a particularly irritating issue which has become known as the "disappearing" or "vanishing" shadows.  Briefly, this bug causes shadow rendering to suddenly drop out of the game due to some unknown trigger, disabling shadows at any setting until the client is restarted.  Theories as to why this happens range from reaching a critical point of processor load from shadow rendering, to encountering specific particle effects, potentially from spells of certain classes.  This happens to people with both brands of video cards, both brands of processors, and computer specs ranging from meager to extremely powerful.  Personally, this has struck me on two completely different machines, each built to top-of-the-line specs, both brands of cards and processors, single and dual core, SLI and non-SLI, and in both XP and Vista. There has, as of today, been no resolution to this.  Only recently has SOE added this to their list of known issues, and has offered no projection on when they might have this fixed, or what they think the problem is.  It took 2 years to get JUST TO THAT POINT.  If anybody has doubts about how many people are affected by this, please do a search for vanishing shadows, or disappearing shadows, you will find threads going back to 2005, and I believe earlier. I have been playing on Vista to see if this problem would remain.  It does.  Frankly, i'm rather fed up at this point. The core of the issue is that SOE support says that they cannot replicate this bug in order to troubleshoot it.  That's fair enough, to a point.  I understand that some bugs, this being a perfect example, are so unusual and specific and difficult to even reproduce that troubleshooting becomes very difficult.  But, that's only to a point.  I see posts where TSRs say "well, update your BIOS & drivers, clean boot, do a full check, etc etc" and I understand the need for the basics to be covered first, but we're pretty much past that. Here are my two suggestions to get this solved. 1.  Try harder.  I'm not trying to be an [Removed for Content], i just mean that a known issue thats been going on for several years needs to get fixed.  If you cant reproduce it, you haven't put enough effort in, period. 2.  I have a proposal:  My PC is affected by this issue.  I will SEND MY PC TO YOU, and you can hang on to it and use it to fix this issue.  I GUARANTEE you will be hit by this bug in one day of gameplay.  You can USE IT FOR AS LONG AS IS NECESSARY, provided that you do two things in return.  One, you pay to ship it both ways.  Two, you send me one of your PCs with comparable specs to play on in the meantime.  I will sign whatever you need me to in order to make this a legitimate, honest and binding agreement. I'm completely serious, this isn't a stunt.  PM me, or email or call me from whats on my account info and i will give you detailed specs and we can start this. If you don't want to take me up on this offer, for whatever reason, that's your decision.  If not, please give us some information beyond "this is a known issue", b/c this is now well beyond "ridiculous".  It's a bug thats been around as long as the game, lets kill it and move on. Thanks.
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:46 PM   #2
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I believe the reason that we are unable to reproduce the issue is that our hardware is working properly. It's hard to break a computer to get something to happen when, as you said yourself, the patterns simply do not exist towards identifying the issue. I will pass your offer along, but I can't be certain what he response will be, if there is a response. I appreciate your dedication to the issue, to be certain. We have, literally, tested hundreds of iterations, given by community input. Not a single method was able to reproduce the issue that met our minimum and recommended hardware requirements. We want to fix bugs more than customers want us to. Nothing bugs an architect more than those small flaws that exist that only he knows about; it is even worse when the flaw is out there in the open. In your particular case, have you tried swapping out any hardware for testing purposes, specifically the Video card and/or power supply?
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:48 PM   #3
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TerminalDogmaCS wrote:
OK, I've just about had enough of it. Many people who have played this game over the past 2+ years have had a particularly irritating issue which has become known as the "disappearing" or "vanishing" shadows.  Briefly, this bug causes shadow rendering to suddenly drop out of the game due to some unknown trigger, disabling shadows at any setting until the client is restarted.  Theories as to why this happens range from reaching a critical point of processor load from shadow rendering, to encountering specific particle effects, potentially from spells of certain classes.  This happens to people with both brands of video cards, both brands of processors, and computer specs ranging from meager to extremely powerful.  Personally, this has struck me on two completely different machines, each built to top-of-the-line specs, both brands of cards and processors, single and dual core, SLI and non-SLI, and in both XP and Vista. There has, as of today, been no resolution to this.  Only recently has SOE added this to their list of known issues, and has offered no projection on when they might have this fixed, or what they think the problem is.  It took 2 years to get JUST TO THAT POINT.  If anybody has doubts about how many people are affected by this, please do a search for vanishing shadows, or disappearing shadows, you will find threads going back to 2005, and I believe earlier. I have been playing on Vista to see if this problem would remain.  It does.  Frankly, i'm rather fed up at this point. The core of the issue is that SOE support says that they cannot replicate this bug in order to troubleshoot it.  That's fair enough, to a point.  I understand that some bugs, this being a perfect example, are so unusual and specific and difficult to even reproduce that troubleshooting becomes very difficult.  But, that's only to a point.  I see posts where TSRs say "well, update your BIOS & drivers, clean boot, do a full check, etc etc" and I understand the need for the basics to be covered first, but we're pretty much past that. Here are my two suggestions to get this solved. 1.  Try harder.  I'm not trying to be an [I cannot control my vocabulary], i just mean that a known issue thats been going on for several years needs to get fixed.  If you cant reproduce it, you haven't put enough effort in, period. 2.  I have a proposal:  My PC is affected by this issue.  I will SEND MY PC TO YOU, and you can hang on to it and use it to fix this issue.  I GUARANTEE you will be hit by this bug in one day of gameplay.  You can USE IT FOR AS LONG AS IS NECESSARY, provided that you do two things in return.  One, you pay to ship it both ways.  Two, you send me one of your PCs with comparable specs to play on in the meantime.  I will sign whatever you need me to in order to make this a legitimate, honest and binding agreement. I'm completely serious, this isn't a stunt.  PM me, or email or call me from whats on my account info and i will give you detailed specs and we can start this. If you don't want to take me up on this offer, for whatever reason, that's your decision.  If not, please give us some information beyond "this is a known issue", b/c this is now well beyond "ridiculous".  It's a bug thats been around as long as the game, lets kill it and move on. Thanks.

hmm...going on over three years without this issue! Glad it's not happening on any of my three rigs!! SMILEY You can send me your computer and I will send you mine. SMILEY

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Old 03-26-2007, 09:11 PM   #4
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Gareth's correct with what he's said.  Please pardon the lack of the "Support Representative" title on his forum avatar -- he really does work here at SOE -- we're just waiting for the forum admin to flag him (and the rest of the agents) properly. In the past, we could "sometimes" reproduce the issue on certain ATI Radeon 9800 Pro / Intel Pentium 4 configurations we had here in the office, but it was rare.  We've come to find out that the issue was partially caused by an bug known as the "R350/R360 VPU Recovery Error" that happened before the Catalyst 6.1 drivers were released.  After those particular drivers, the issues became impossible to reproduce here. Believe me, we've tried hundreds of different permutations that were suggested by players, including -- of all things -- a real-life-three-day long test based on the day/night cycle inside the game.  Yikes! We will be happy to humor a new test that may help fix this issue.  However, if we cannot reproduce a shadow failure on the "minimum" and "suggested" hardware configurations for the game, then we will continue to suggest that the issue is probably not a bug in the game and more likely a symptom of faulty hardware or conflicting drivers. I don't like making posts like this more than players don't like reading them or experiencing the problems these posts detail.  I would rather whatever it is that causes this be fixed as soon as possible and I'm going to do everything within my power and within reason to help track down the issue's cause.
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Old 03-26-2007, 11:38 PM   #5
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Thanks for the replies. In short, yes, I have swapped between my NVIDIA 8800 (sigh...) and my old ATI X1800XT, as well as an older NVIDIA 7900 GTX.  Keep in mind i'm talking about two completely different computers, I mean different down to the case, not a single component shared.  The power supply in the older one was a steady 400W supply, this one has a 600W SLI-rated supply. There is not a single driver or BIOS on my machine that is not 100% up to date.  I have no issues whatsoever with any other games.  I've been in the industry now for 20+ years, my computers do NOT have any strange little bugs that might cause one to think something isn't right under the hood. Even my 8800 (the last NVIDIA product i will ever buy) with its severely deficient drivers, in both XP and Vista, and its "known issues" in just about every game out there manages to defy the odds and run EQII quite well.  I would understand if this little issue happened just with that card, but that isn't the case. And it isn't a minimum / recommended specs issue, many of the people who have reported this bug have machines that are very high performing. And even if, somehow, it is something that i have misconfigured, and missed, that is exactly why I offered to send you my machine.  I'd rather eat my words from 3 paragraphs up than have no resolution. I switched to Vista hoping that perhaps, since the OS was technically the same between both machines, originally, that there might be the one link.  I seems to be happening LESS, but it still happens, once or twice per session.  I wouldn't care, really, if I could just flick the setting on and off in options and keep going. Just running the game for three days won't necessarily produce it.  I stood in front of the East FP broker for 12 hours and still had shadows.  But just now i spent less than 5 minutes in a group with a fury and lost them during combat...particle effects anyone?  Have you taken characters on any of these test machines and stuck them in a group with a bunch of casters throwing around spells for awhile?  I'm not sure if I've ever tried to see what happens with particle effects off, i'll try that next.  Again, that's the reason I offered up my comp, b/c you'll be able to make it happen. Anyway, pass it along, i suspect the answer will be no, for whatever reason, but who knows...
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Old 04-08-2007, 10:59 PM   #6
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Not quite finished with this thread. After spending some time tinkering, I can tell you several things: 1.  Shadows always disappear in combat, or near another player / party that is in combat. 2.  With particle effects off (or as low as they can go), I have yet to have my shadows flake out. 3.  With particle effects set to average, but all other particle settings set to near-minimum, shadows disappear less frequently. 4.  When the settings from (3) are combined with manually setting the processor affinity to CPU 0, and process priority to high in the task manager, shadows disappear much less.  But it still happens, perhaps once in, lets say, six hours. Basically, the formula for making it happen is simple:  Run into a large group of mobs, grabbing as many as possible (think the "kill 1000 sentient beings" for the BBC quest), and start throwing around spells.  At default settings, with no alterations in task manager, shadows have a lifespan measured in minutes.  The same thing happens when in a party. So, the questions now are: 1.  Is this pointing towards a CPU / mainboard / RAM issue, or a video card issue?  Correct me if i'm wrong, but I understand that shadows are heavily CPU-dependent in this game, at least for calculation (of course they're rendered by the graphics hardware).  What about particle effects?  CPU or GPU dependent?  2.  If it is a CPU issue, why is this happening?  This machine is no slouch, its an AMD 64 x2 4200, 2 gigs of RAM, on an Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe board.  Before you ask, no, it is not overclocked, it is at its defaults and is recognizing speed and settings correctly to the mainboard.  The AMD dual-core optimizer is installed.  I have no issues with processing power anywhere else.  The previous machine had a 3ghz (I believe) P4 w/ HT processor...dual core and HT issue?  Its not uncommon that many games have issues with dual-core machines, and require manual adjustment.  Tomorrow, I am replacing my 8800 GTX with an x1950xtx (yes, a technical downgrade, but after nearly 6 months of issue after issue with the 8800, I'm finished with NVIDIA, and from virtually everything i've read believe i'll have better performance with the AMD card).  We will see if it makes any difference. My offer of my machine is still open. So, whats the deal?  Can anyone explain specifically and authoritatively (not speculatively) how shadows and particle effects are processed in EQ2, and how that might be affecting the issue? You talk about "misconfigured hardware".  OK...what kind of misconfiguration could cause this kind of situation?  A phrase like that is, well, a cop-out (and thats OK, i've used it before myself, its kind of code for "something is probably wrong but i don't know what it is, yet I have to say something&quotSMILEY. Thanks.
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Old 04-10-2007, 05:43 PM   #7
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Now that is a bunch fo bull.  Do they pay you guys to tell us this stuff so SOE won't look bad?  I've been playing EQ II for a few years now.  I've installed and played the game on 3 different machines over those years as I have upgraded.  The disappearing shadow problem has happened on every single one of them, and it happens ALL THE TIME.  There isn't a play sesssion I run that it doesn't occur eventually.

I have an extremely hard time believing anyone that says they've tested hundreds of machines and not been able to replicate the problem.  LOL.  I'm actually laughing.  I've heard some doozies from customer support before, but this one takes the cake.  There are many of us with this problem.  Fix it.

By the way.  Every machine I ran EQ II on was an ATI card.  The lastest card is a Radeon X1800 XT - with 7.3 drivers on Vista 64 bit.  My new machine is an AMD X2 5600+ dual core with 4 GB of DDR2 800 RAM.  Game works flawlessly for me, with the notable exception of the same old disappearing shadows fiasco.

I intend to replace the Radeon card with a Geforce 8800 GTX in 1 week to upgrade to a full DX10 card.  I'll let you know if the diappearing shadows still occur, as I've never played EQ II on an nVidia card before.

I love it - we can't duplicate the problem because our machines work.  LOL.  Yeah, mine's broken. SMILEY  Same old story from SOE tech support.  You or your machine are broken.  Our game is perfect.

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Old 04-10-2007, 05:48 PM   #8
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You know what - this kind of response is just as bad as what the poor Vanguard people are getting.  It's not our resource hog game - it's your computer that is causing all the crashes, memory leaks, bog, and poor performance.  Buy a new machine!

But, but - my machines is way better than your recommended specs - in fact, my machines is litterally the fastest consumer machine on the market - so what machine do you suggest I buy that will run your game???

LOL

Your games have problems.  Fix them, and stop trying to convince us that its our fault.

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Old 04-10-2007, 06:10 PM   #9
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p1ut0nium wrote:

Same old story from SOE tech support.  You or your machine are broken.  Our game is perfect.

It's not like that at all. It's more like this: A friend tells you "The sky is orange", but every time you look up at the sky, it's a nice shade of azure blue.  Not wanting to tell your friend he or she is crazy, you try everything under the sun that you can think of that will make you see the same thing your friend is seeing, but are unable.  Does that mean that the sky isn't orange?  No, but it means that you weren't able to reproduce the same thing your friend was able to reproduce. How would you break the news to your friend in that case?  Would you say "Sorry, but I'm unable to reproduce what you are seeing... perhaps there's something causing you, in particular, to see an orange sky?"  or would you say "Yes, I believe you.  My eyes must be broken."? That said, we don't disbelieve that the issue is happening.  However, we are unable to reproduce the issue and, thus, are unable to resolve it.
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Old 04-10-2007, 06:18 PM   #10
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It's because nVidia and Sony have an agreement to keep ATI sales down isn't it!  Tell me!  Tell me!  You can't hide the truth from me!  I live in Agoura Hills!  Don't make me hop in my car and driver over there to Sony and torture you for the truth!  I've seen the nVidia graphic in the logo march!  But where's ATI?  Nowhere that's where!  And we both know that only ATI cards produce the no shadow bug, and always will.  nVidia and Sony 4twin!!!!11
LOL - I'll keep playing EQ2, but only because its the best MMO on the market (all WoW sales figures aside), and I have no other choice.  But, I fully expect to see a "We found and fixed the disappearing shadows bug - sorry for telling you there wasn't one" in one of the update notes some day.
I'll be watching... (.)(.)
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Old 04-10-2007, 06:46 PM   #11
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Just a quick FYI to the folks still trying to resolve this -  My shadows disappear almost every night I play.   I just put together a new system in February, and I loaded it with all of the latest drivers and BIOS flashes.  Here are the specs:   - 850W power supply - EVGA 122-CK-NF68-AR nForce 680i motherboard - Core 2 Duo E6700 2.66GHz - EVGA GeForce 8800GTX video card - 2 Gigs Corsair DDR2 800MHz Memory - 2 Western Digital 150GB Raptor drives (SATA) in RAID0   For graphics, I selected the highest ‘settings’ box, and I adjusted a couple more individually (e.g. show names on mouseover, etc).  I almost exclusively duo with a RL friend (if it matters, I play a ranger and he plays a paladin), and I have noticed that my shadows usually disappear shortly after I group with him (sometime after one of our first combats).  I usually play about 2 to 3 hours, and I don’t think I have ever finished a full night of playing with my shadows intact.   As far as I can tell, everything else (in game and out) runs flawlessly.   If you want, I can send you whatever diagnostic files you need.  Since I am in San Diego, I would love to offer to bring my system over because you could definitely reproduce the problem on it, but I don’t think my wife would understand the importance of the issue and would not want me to leave her with our baby while I hobnob with SOE VIPs. SMILEY
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Old 04-10-2007, 07:44 PM   #12
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p1ut0nium wrote:
But where's ATI?  Nowhere that's where!  And we both know that only ATI cards produce the no shadow bug, and always will.
Um...  My X1950 Pro Crossfire setup at home and my Radeon 9800 Pro at work don't reproduce the issue at all. A while ago (about 2 years ago), I've personally seen this issue on my 9800 Pro at home, but I've not seen it since.  I chalk that up to major changes to my system design (new motherboard, new processor, new video cards, etc. etc. etc.)
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Old 04-10-2007, 08:29 PM   #13
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This responce sounds so familiar... where did I hear it before... OH I remember. All the people who reported issues with dual cores after SoE changed how Eq2 behaves on them. All of them were told it was their machine and it was completly unreproducable, even when people were like... all 5 computers where with different specs have the issue.

With SoE it's ALWAYS your machine. Same when people reported the slow NPC loading, it was all our bad bad machines. Then one day it was a note on the bottom of the patch notes along the lines of "improved npc loading rate."

C'mon to be honest these are the people who brought you a 3d engine that still won't be runable smoothly on the common machine for 2 or 3 more years.

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Old 04-10-2007, 09:02 PM   #14
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Guys, I FREAKING CAPTURED THE PROBLEM ON FRAPS LAST NIGHT. Check it out here. Read my followup thread here too. Seriously guys, I could make these videos all day if I wanted to.  I guarantee you I have a machine that beats the pants off easily 90% of what other players have, that has no issues whatsoever in any other games or applications, that has used top of the line ATI AND NVIDIA cards, and STILL GETS THIS PROBLEM. You say you can't replicate it, in fact, that you've never actually seen it (aside from the old issue w/ the ATI VPU Recovery, which is completely separate and solved).  Well, watch the video!  You can't say that anymore. The formula for me to produce it is simple:  Set settings to Extreme Quality, go grab 10-20 mobs, and throw around particle effects until shadows drop.  What I did in the video produces this error 100% of the time, ON THE FIRST TRY. Its not solved by changing the video card, I have now used FOUR cards, two ATI, and two NVIDIA, ALL of which have had the same problem.  (Note to above poster, don't get an 8800!  8800+EQ2 = terrible performance) I even offered to send you my computer as proof, and to get you started on figuring this out! I got the same typical "misconfigured hardware or software" (nice try) response, so in order to document it, I FRAPSed it myself.  Whether or not you can reproduce it doesn't necessarily matter!  You need to take a look at how EQ2 renders shadows (and likely particle effects)...just as I asked days ago in my followup posts here, and find out why something in the engine yells "Woah!  Stop rendering shadows!".  I'd like to see the opinion of one of your programmers. I appreciate your efforts (and I understand, having once been a tech support guy a while back, dealing with all sorts of "what the..." problems), but seriously, I've made more progress in describing, analyzing and documenting this problem in a few weeks than has been made by SOE in years.  I love this game, I am a performance freak and I can zip around EQ2 with great framerates on very demanding settings, it drives me up the wall that some tiny little error in the code is causing this problem.  Do you know how fake the game looks without shadows, on high settings? At the very least, this needs to be in your "Known Issues" sticky at the top of the page. Again, look here for the video (DIVX 6). Thanks.
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Old 04-19-2007, 08:47 PM   #15
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hmm ok all the technicans can't reproduce this error on they're machines. than please just give me an example of what machine you're using on whitch this error doesn't show up, so i can buy me that exactly thing. sorry for my bad english. im german. but this error is so... (just fill in the worst words) And i dont wanna see again my shadows disappearing. so please post expamples of the configuration and hardware your testing machines are all about. THANKS just for info: i can reproduce the error very easily. On the isle of refuge, Just take my monk, go to the gruttooth invaders and cast a fist attack like "cold fist" BAM the shadows disappear. so i can do in 10 seconds, have no shadows. or wait and do the attack in 5 hours. so i can choose when i wanna have the shadows vanishing. SMILEY
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:18 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:
hmm ok all the technicans can't reproduce this error on they're machines. than please just give me an example of what machine you're using on whitch this error doesn't show up, so i can buy me that exactly thing. sorry for my bad english. im german. but this error is so... (just fill in the worst words) And i dont wanna see again my shadows disappearing. so please post expamples of the configuration and hardware your testing machines are all about. THANKS just for info: i can reproduce the error very easily. On the isle of refuge, Just take my monk, go to the gruttooth invaders and cast a fist attack like "cold fist" BAM the shadows disappear. so i can do in 10 seconds, have no shadows. or wait and do the attack in 5 hours. so i can choose when i wanna have the shadows vanishing. SMILEY

No problem...just look at my Sig for a system that does not produce the Shadow dropping effect. In fact, it was already posted further up.

At anyrate, you people seem to forget that the operating system and what is installed on it will ALWAYS be different then the next person. Try thinking about what video capture software, printkey program or any other program, service or desktop effect that could attribute to the dropping of the in-game Shadows, and you might be on your way to a final resolution.

mmkay?

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Old 04-21-2007, 03:33 AM   #17
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understand... but if im not the only one without shadows... its not really my fault. Its bad enough i've to buy exactly the machine postet to just play that game without errors.
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Old 04-22-2007, 06:21 PM   #18
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Hmmm... I'm using a Radeon 9250 with 1GB of PC2800 DDR, and I can't even duplicate the problem. Just because Sony can't duplicate it doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist for some, or that Sony doesn't acknowledge the problem. I'm willing to bet it's a combination of things, but exactly what, I don't know. And for those that think I'm being paid off by SOE to say this, no, I'm not. You guys really need to stop watching X-Files reruns.
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:43 PM   #19
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I can now say that we have duplicated the issue in several scenarios, and are working towards a resolution.
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Old 04-28-2007, 04:25 AM   #20
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p1ut0nium wrote:

Now that is a bunch fo bull.  Do they pay you guys to tell us this stuff so SOE won't look bad?  I've been playing EQ II for a few years now.  I've installed and played the game on 3 different machines over those years as I have upgraded.  The disappearing shadow problem has happened on every single one of them, and it happens ALL THE TIME.  There isn't a play sesssion I run that it doesn't occur eventually.

I have an extremely hard time believing anyone that says they've tested hundreds of machines and not been able to replicate the problem.  LOL.  I'm actually laughing.  I've heard some doozies from customer support before, but this one takes the cake.  There are many of us with this problem.  Fix it.

By the way.  Every machine I ran EQ II on was an ATI card.  The lastest card is a Radeon X1800 XT - with 7.3 drivers on Vista 64 bit.  My new machine is an AMD X2 5600+ dual core with 4 GB of DDR2 800 RAM.  Game works flawlessly for me, with the notable exception of the same old disappearing shadows fiasco.

I intend to replace the Radeon card with a Geforce 8800 GTX in 1 week to upgrade to a full DX10 card.  I'll let you know if the diappearing shadows still occur, as I've never played EQ II on an nVidia card before.

I love it - we can't duplicate the problem because our machines work.  LOL.  Yeah, mine's broken.   Same old story from SOE tech support.  You or your machine are broken.  Our game is perfect.

Yes I'm sorry but I have to agree with this poster here. This is my second personally built machine in which I've had this problem (and this used to happen to be in beta and has never been fixed).

This also happens on two of my friends computers, my brothers computer, and my cousins computer. I could continue because I know more people who have at one point played Everquest II that had this issue happen to them as well.

In fact, I have found the EXACT opposite of what you tech support people just told us. I've found that on every single computer I have ever turned the shadows on in Everquest II, I've watched them vanish in the blink of an eye. EVERY one.

These computers range in type, power, driver, and owner, some with little to no computer knowledge, two who are computer techs for major corporations whose daily duty is to maintain and repair computers, I doubt their computers aren't "properly configured" in some way.

It completely boggles my mind that not only has this issue been plaguing every single person I know who has ever played Everquest II, but that the developers (you guys) are telling us that you can't even duplicate the issue.

What are you doing to try to duplicate the shadows disappearing? Sitting there? I can park my character in a zone for 2 months straight and not lose my shadows. Also if I turn my particle effects per character down to 0 I can for the most part (in almost any zone) stay in a full group of people and not lose my shadows. If I even turn that number up to 1 though, I can lose my shadows on my Conjuror solo, but most zones on my Monk I won't lose them at all.

From the past 3 years I've spent losing my shadows out of frustration I've noted that the issue seems directly linked to particle effects.

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Old 04-28-2007, 04:26 PM   #21
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i have 2 8800's in SLI. Shadows drop and don't come back after 15 or 20 mins of playing almost every time i log in.
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Old 04-30-2007, 08:31 PM   #22
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Ardornon wrote:

p1ut0nium wrote:

Now that is a bunch fo bull.  Do they pay you guys to tell us this stuff so SOE won't look bad?  I've been playing EQ II for a few years now.  I've installed and played the game on 3 different machines over those years as I have upgraded.  The disappearing shadow problem has happened on every single one of them, and it happens ALL THE TIME.  There isn't a play sesssion I run that it doesn't occur eventually.

I have an extremely hard time believing anyone that says they've tested hundreds of machines and not been able to replicate the problem.  LOL.  I'm actually laughing.  I've heard some doozies from customer support before, but this one takes the cake.  There are many of us with this problem.  Fix it.

By the way.  Every machine I ran EQ II on was an ATI card.  The lastest card is a Radeon X1800 XT - with 7.3 drivers on Vista 64 bit.  My new machine is an AMD X2 5600+ dual core with 4 GB of DDR2 800 RAM.  Game works flawlessly for me, with the notable exception of the same old disappearing shadows fiasco.

I intend to replace the Radeon card with a Geforce 8800 GTX in 1 week to upgrade to a full DX10 card.  I'll let you know if the diappearing shadows still occur, as I've never played EQ II on an nVidia card before.

I love it - we can't duplicate the problem because our machines work.  LOL.  Yeah, mine's broken.   Same old story from SOE tech support.  You or your machine are broken.  Our game is perfect.

Yes I'm sorry but I have to agree with this poster here. This is my second personally built machine in which I've had this problem (and this used to happen to be in beta and has never been fixed).

This also happens on two of my friends computers, my brothers computer, and my cousins computer. I could continue because I know more people who have at one point played Everquest II that had this issue happen to them as well.

In fact, I have found the EXACT opposite of what you tech support people just told us. I've found that on every single computer I have ever turned the shadows on in Everquest II, I've watched them vanish in the blink of an eye. EVERY one.

These computers range in type, power, driver, and owner, some with little to no computer knowledge, two who are computer techs for major corporations whose daily duty is to maintain and repair computers, I doubt their computers aren't "properly configured" in some way.

It completely boggles my mind that not only has this issue been plaguing every single person I know who has ever played Everquest II, but that the developers (you guys) are telling us that you can't even duplicate the issue.

What are you doing to try to duplicate the shadows disappearing? Sitting there? I can park my character in a zone for 2 months straight and not lose my shadows. Also if I turn my particle effects per character down to 0 I can for the most part (in almost any zone) stay in a full group of people and not lose my shadows. If I even turn that number up to 1 though, I can lose my shadows on my Conjuror solo, but most zones on my Monk I won't lose them at all.

From the past 3 years I've spent losing my shadows out of frustration I've noted that the issue seems directly linked to particle effects.

Did you miss my followup post?
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Old 05-14-2007, 04:45 AM   #23
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I noticed that in the Shadow options, there is a new setting - High Quality or Disabled. The shadow effect is more advanced than before - but like before, the shadows still disappear. They come back as soon as you restart the game. This is on both a 8800GTS and a X1800XTX (with CoreDUO-2). Hope this fix appears soon. No Shadows as opposed to play with Shadows working, is a whole different experience. I have to say that the new shadow effect (high quality setting) is pretty incredible when it's working.
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:30 AM   #24
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TSR-GarethC wrote:
I can now say that we have duplicated the issue in several scenarios, and are working towards a resolution.

I find it astonishing that you were not ready to acknowledge the existance of this problem sooner. I dont know what behaviour is deemed acceptable for american CS but your beligerant ignoring of this problem does not inspire any sort of loyalty or dunkirk spirit in me.

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Old 05-14-2007, 07:34 AM   #25
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So far you haven't been able to reproduce this issue.  How long do you typically run the tests?  What are your system specs?  Do you run on recommended machinery or top-notch industrial-quality machinery that only a handful of your playerbase can afford?  What exactly does your test consist of?  Just curious.  I don't have the problem but I'm sure I could easily reproduce it.  Due to my somewhat limited power supply I don't run the game past high quality graphical settings, though I can run it at maximum if I'm willing to take the FPS hit. I haven't done much research on this, but from this post I get the impression that the problem is linked to dual core processors.  Fair enough to say "it's your incompatible hardware" but with sooo many people using them now (they come standard on many preassembled machines) this has become a cheap copout, and in most cases with this issue, any sort of "it's you not us" is a cheap copout.  No offense, I understand completely why you say it especially when you haven't been able to force the same problem on your own machines.  I'm just curious how..flexible your tests are and just how close to the recommended specs your systems are... [Edit] Shoulda read further before I posted, huh? Ahaha! Anyway, Tokamak, this is a pretty pathetic example of customer service.  I haven't been a customer for SOE for very long, and I'm pretty sure I won't be much longer.
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Old 05-14-2007, 04:33 PM   #26
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TerminalDogmaCS cheers for digging in this topic! Most appreciated. TSR-GarethC  thanks for admitting the problem exist. First step in right direction to fix it SMILEY As I said in another post, if you will search trough own forums there are lots of threads about disappearing shadows dated many months back. Maybe some of them will have information useful in nailing the problem. As you may assume I experience disappearing shadows as well. Good luck with fixing.
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:39 PM   #27
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What infuriates me most of all is that this issue has been plaguing me and every single person I know since BETA. I don't understand how people specializing in the technical aspects of their own game engine have not only originally ignored that this problem exists, but when searching for it, have been unable to reproduce the issue, for THREE YEARS.

Three years? My number one major question is this: "if I can find this problem on every single computer I've ever known (the number of computers closes in on about a dozen) and tech support originally simply couldn't reproduce the issue, then what's the problem here?

I hate to say this guys but I believe the problem lies in the sheer incompetence of those who's job it is to test their own code for this issue, period. The facts are simple, a problem has existed, a problem DOES exist, and a problem is FINALLY figured out three years later. If incompetence wasn't the issue then we would have known that this problem existed three years ago, in beta, and the problem would have been fixed years ago.

Now I don't know or even care anymore to place blame on people, all I know is it's time to fix this, so please, let's fix it.

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Old 05-23-2007, 09:36 AM   #28
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Lol ive build tons of comp and checked this issue ( work in a comp store ). Tried almost all cards on the market.. with diffrent cpu's etc etc. SAME on ALL computer.. tested over 50 diffrent gfx card. When u tech support says that u didnt find the issue [Removed for Content] do you use for kind of machines? machines that arent on the market or what? I mean SoE demos on eq2.. why have u turned of the shadows? oh yeah they crash and u dont know why. ok.. And yes i can see that you found the issue sure.. but its after 2 years.. its really embarrasing guys.
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:06 PM   #29
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I would like to add to the people complaining about shadow disappearing issues AS I HAVE HAD THEM since november 2004. It is now May 2007 nearly 3 years later. I will continue to wait for a shadow fix and i am near my end of the EQ series. Sony has been unreliable blaming my system and over 4 of my  friends systems. We all have different rigs and all the same experiences. Shadows disappearing. It is nearly time to quit as i have had my fun with sony and EQ2 as the problems i have submitted along with my friends have yet to be fixed after getting a level 70 with this issue has been annoying enough and i cant endure it anymore you may think that im over reacting but ive played with the problem long enough and to see it never fixed has changed my mind about this company and its experience.
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:41 PM   #30
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Tokamak wrote:
TSR-GarethC wrote:
I can now say that we have duplicated the issue in several scenarios, and are working towards a resolution.

I find it astonishing that you were not ready to acknowledge the existance of this problem sooner. I dont know what behaviour is deemed acceptable for american CS but your beligerant ignoring of this problem does not inspire any sort of loyalty or dunkirk spirit in me.

That's where you are mistaken, Tokamak.  We were readily willing to admit that there was a problem.  We just had no way to accurately reproduce the problem... and that meant that we did not have a way to fix it.  Now that we have a method to reproduce the problem, we are working on repairing it.
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