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Old 03-02-2005, 07:15 PM   #1
Zamla1770

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Ok so here you are in a grp looking for new members:
 
You get a Dirge or a Troubador, suddenly you have never ending power or find that you hits go way up or runn like the wind. This makes you go "I love having a (Dirge or Trou...) in grp.
 
You get a Assassin or Ranger, suddenly 2k hits starts to fly over the fast dying mobs. This makes you say, wow nice hit!!! And the healer in grp makes happy noices about shorter fights not draining power.
 
 You get a Swash or Brig...  well grp dps seems to go up. This makes you say... hm...  well not much to say.
 
(Atm due to one really powerfull skill and a broken class Rangers and Brigs have swaped places)
 
I think that SoE needs to put a "wow!!!" in to the Swashbuckler.
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Old 03-02-2005, 08:21 PM   #2
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Well, I don't get why Brigands have a skill that hits if-not-that-high-quite-simmilar to the most damaging Assassin skill. It's even worse when assassins have it on a 5min timer and brigands on 60seconds.
 
Weren't Swashies and Brigands supposed to be mid-high, constant, power-efficient dps with a bit of utility? (evac and not much more right now). I don't get it :
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Old 03-02-2005, 09:09 PM   #3
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If an Assassine does 2k every 60 seconds vs a swashie doing 200 every 6 seconds they still do the same amount of damage. However, certain people have an ego trip over how high they can hit and fail to realise that sustained dps is what really counts and in that department, Swash/Brig beat [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]/Rng.
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Old 03-02-2005, 11:04 PM   #4
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I get "Wows" with judicious use of Mez. 
 
In parties with no enchanters, which are common, keeping the named mezed through most of the fight while taking out the smaller mobs flanking it works wonders. 
 
In smaller parties, you can split two 1-up arrowed mobs with mez and make your tanking job a lot easier (and safer).
 
Many times Mez prevented a caster or priest from dying when a tank was either ignoring their calls for help or couldn't get aggro for some reason.  Also, with only one mob left a well-placed mez can give an OOP healer some time to get one more heal out before it breaks.
 
Parties tend to find even our gimpy mez so useful as to command each other not to break it.
 
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Old 03-03-2005, 03:50 AM   #5
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Zamla1770 wrote:
Ok so here you are in a grp looking for new members:
 
You get a Dirge or a Troubador, suddenly you have never ending power or find that you hits go way up or runn like the wind. This makes you go "I love having a (Dirge or Trou...) in grp.
 
Bard power  regen sucks. The haste is nice, but haste from all classes sucks because normal melee dmg is so minor. Run speed for all scouts is the same SMILEY
 
You get a Assassin or Ranger, suddenly 2k hits starts to fly over the fast dying mobs. This makes you say, wow nice hit!!! And the healer in grp makes happy noices about shorter fights not draining power.
 
My ILLUSIONIST frequently out damages rangers HAHA. They really need some love. Assassins do great though.
 
 You get a Swash or Brig...  well grp dps seems to go up. This makes you say... hm...  well not much to say.
 
 
(Atm due to one really powerfull skill and a broken class Rangers and Brigs have swaped places)
 
I assume you mean ruse. I tested with an equal lvl brigand the other day. He has adept 3 Ruse. I have Adept 3 undercut. He did ~1000 dmg per ruse. I did about 160 per undercut. we were jsu tmessing around on greys, but that shouldnt have much effect other than raising both of our DPS. So in this test, undercut = ruse.
 
I think that SoE needs to put a "wow!!!" in to the Swashbuckler.



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Old 03-03-2005, 01:16 PM   #6
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Aye AScarlato, some wow´s do come when we use mez, but usualy its wow do Swashs have a mez. And yes we are semi good at many things, but the real mezers mez is kinda a lot more wow.
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Old 03-03-2005, 01:21 PM   #7
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Have CSM going? I've wow'd quite a few people with my DPS. =D
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Old 03-03-2005, 02:07 PM   #8
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Erasmus, have you ever grp with a Dirge, they get a run speed buff choice at lvl 30 (i think its 30 anyways), and yes, with that you do run like the wind.
 
On the Ruse, with the possibility of having a master 1 Ruse and doing a 2.5k hit, thats a lot more "wow" then the 250 you might get with a master 1 undercut (not saying you need 2.5k to make pepps raise the eyebrow 1-1.5k is quite sufficient). (Ruse=Undercut, aye in a rare case we might get the same dmg of Undercut, but think of power cost, and that fights usually aint exactly 62 sec long.)
 
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Old 03-03-2005, 07:47 PM   #9
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Get over the big number thing or play another class. Swashbucklers don't have an attack that is going to match the long timer ones for "wow." We just do steady sustained damage that keep going and going and going. Our dps is just fine IF you know how to play the class. If everyone gets the same "wow" attacks we are just going to end up with all the scout classes being the same except by what they are named.
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:43 PM   #10
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lol Silvorn, did u read before u answerd? Big number, not said nor implied for a swash, an assassin yes.
We could have a "total aggro control" skill ie tank loses aggro and mobs are all over the place, smack the skill and all engaged mobs goes for the char we want them to go to, set the skill to a 10 min timer or so and we have a wow skill. 
Or we could have a "save the tank skill" ie the healer cant ceep up the heals, tank slowly but steady going down, smack the skill and the mob turns to us and looks confused, not attacking, around 3 secs later mob turns back to tank and attacks, the 3 secs of heals without dmg saving the tank and thuse the grp and we have a wow.
I think there are a number of skills that could make the Swash even more fun to play and a lot more useful to grps and raids.
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Old 03-04-2005, 06:35 PM   #11
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Zamla1770 wrote:
lol Silvorn, did u read before u answerd? Big number, not said nor implied for a swash, an assassin yes.
We could have a "total aggro control" skill ie tank loses aggro and mobs are all over the place, smack the skill and all engaged mobs goes for the char we want them to go to, set the skill to a 10 min timer or so and we have a wow skill. 
Or we could have a "save the tank skill" ie the healer cant ceep up the heals, tank slowly but steady going down, smack the skill and the mob turns to us and looks confused, not attacking, around 3 secs later mob turns back to tank and attacks, the 3 secs of heals without dmg saving the tank and thuse the grp and we have a wow.
I think there are a number of skills that could make the Swash even more fun to play and a lot more useful to grps and raids.



For the latter, you mean something like a 20sec mez, that has a 30sec recast time?  Something that can stop a single mob from attacking for a good 15-20s so the healer can heal?  I think we've already got that.  Not to mention the lower level (but still useful) stun that stops a mob for 3-5s (unless someone hits it). 

For the former (agro), you mean something like a reactive hate proc that you can put on the Tank, coupled with hate reduction tools for you own personal use, coupled with an attack that shifts agro to the next person to strike the mob?  I think we've already got that. 

I fail to see the problem.  We already have the abilities you say that you desire.  If you aren't using them in that way, no one is to blame but you.  I've been using my abilities like this for a while now.  I use my mez in almost every group fight.  In my 33 levels, I've grouped with an Enchanter exactly once, where my mez wasn't entirely useful (due to extended duration of the Enc's mez compared to mine).  My hate management skills are always useful in anything beyond a solo situation.  My damage skills are clearly useful (the same enchanter was out damaging me against solo mobs, and was 2 levels higher than me, but was too busy against group mobs). 

 

Use what you've got, it's what you're asking for anyway. 

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Old 03-04-2005, 07:55 PM   #12
Zamla1770

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AgricolaMonk SMILEY
Aye sounds good dosent it, why dident i think of using the skills I have.
 
"Save the tank skill"
I was a bit vage in my description of the Mez, it would not be broken bye dmg (but then again I dident expect to be assaulted for trying to be constructive).
 
Now...
"For the latter, you mean something like a 20sec mez, that has a 30sec recast time?  Something that can stop a single mob from attacking for a good 15-20s so the healer can heal?  I think we've already got that.  Not to mention the lower level (but still useful) stun that stops a mob for 3-5s (unless someone hits it).  "
Agri... do you know what a dot is? To make you type of play style work I guess you demand of all grp members not to use any kind of dots. NO DOTS on this raid!!! that would give you a wow.
 
"Total aggro control"
"For the former (agro), you mean something like a reactive hate proc that you can put on the Tank, coupled with hate reduction tools for you own personal use, coupled with an attack that shifts agro to the next person to strike the mob?  I think we've already got that. "
What can i say... you have got to be kidding... What i suggest and what you say aint even close.
 
Now let me state this for the last time, WE HAVE a lot of useful skills that work well at times but this is NOT what this is about.
 
 
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Old 03-05-2005, 12:10 AM   #13
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First off, I don't raid much.  Don't find it interesting, and I've only done so when there was no other way to complete a given quest.  Didn't enjoy it, but that wasn't due to my abilities (or lack thereof) from my class choice. 
 
Next up... Stuns/Mezes:  If you want an ability that lets you continue to do damage to a mob, but completely stops the mob from damaging you for more than 2-3 seconds (true stuns), then you're playing the wrong game.  Don't ever expect anything like this to be added.  Adding such capability would trivialize the game. 
 
Agro:  We have plenty of agro controll skills.  Warrior-subclasses have a skill called, if I'm not mistaken, Rescue, that essentially does what you want, that being pulling all agro to him.  We can help him do so by our Reactive Hate Proc, we can take over agro if we really want via taunts and our self-haste that bumps us up one notch on the hate ladder, and by just doing the raw damage that we're capable of dealing out.  We are useful in this regard, despite complaints to the contrary. 
 
Finally... DoTs:  The only DoT's that my group uses on a consistent basis are Poisons (a ranger and myself).  We've got a pretty solid group of 5, ranger, swashbuckler, berserker, templar, and paladin.  DoT's aren't an issue for us.  My mez is usually used either to keep a healer-mob from healing his groupmates as often, or simply to keep a mob out of two-thirds of the fight while we slay his companions.  For that purpose, it works wonderfully.  Everyone does a /assist on our main tank, I mez off one of the incoming mobs so he doesn't get hit by the first round of AoEs, and we proceed from there.  If there are 3 or more mobs, I mez another one after the first is dead, or remez again, depending on the situation. 
 
The only complaint that I've got so far is a fairly minor one with a single skill (level 33 AGI/Parry buff which has the same parry buff as our mid-teens parry buff, and whose AGI buff doesn't stack with our STR/AGI buff).  Beyond that, I'm very happy with Swashbucklers.  If more were added, I'd be happier, but it's not a class-breaking issue if SOE doesn't add anything else.  Once most of the minor issues are fixed (see the list on the test center upcoming), I'd be as satisfied as I could be with Swashbucklers. 
 
 
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Old 03-05-2005, 02:13 PM   #14
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Lol as a matter of fact I did read before I replied. I will quote your original post "You get a Assassin or Ranger, suddenly 2k hits starts to fly over the fast dying mobs. This makes you say, wow nice hit!!! " 
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Old 03-08-2005, 08:17 PM   #15
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Swashbucklers are a finess class.  You have to make the effort to show how we shine.  The Mez is a big part of that.  Save a healer a few times and see how fast you are appreciated.  I also recommend attaching a group comment to the Swarthy Distraction (and Mez for that matter) buff you should hit the tank with at all times--let people know what you are providing.  Our group invis is nice too.  Last night I was able to sneak my team past some red con group Orcs in Zek (by the Citadel) so we could update a quest...our only other option was to leave. 
 
 

Message Edited by Jangoshin on 03-08-2005 07:18 AM

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Old 03-08-2005, 08:47 PM   #16
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Ok havent read every post in the thread but iget the jist of it. We arnt really that [Removed for Content] at all, in battle we have haste to no end,i have all my top end hastes adept 3 and i can haste myself 81%max 50%min and thats with out counting haste gear. We get a group sneak that they are fixing with this patch WOOT! hopefully it will make us move faster in stealth, when u dont have a illsionist, we are the only other class with group sneak.
 
 
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Old 03-08-2005, 11:52 PM   #17
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Swashys have some neat skills by the time you reach 50 that help in the group in MANY ways. Group sneak is very useful though it is slow. I have heard they are increasing the speed a bit so it will be more useful. Our mezz, though not great, has served me well leveling up through the upper 40's in permafrost. We had a static group almost and my mezz was invaluable to survival and xp gain. I used it almost every fight we got adds.We get VERY nice aggro skills, but we don't really need aggro. However, the skills that take aggro do a lot of damage. For one, we get a skill called flamboyant strike at lvl 44....which uses no power and does like 400 dmg at adept 3. It has a 30 sec re-use time, and it increases our hate-position by 1. We have many skills on a 10-20 sec timer with a few on a 30 sec timer. It is our consitentancy of attacks that makes the swashbuckler very nice to have in a raid situation. Group situations predators outdo us because they can kill FAST....while we catch up to predators over time.Once our debuffs work, we will be seen as a very nice class to have. We can decrease a mobs AGI by near 75-100...which would make it MUCH easier to hit (AC decrease with AGI decrease).We do need some defining features, but by the time you are 50 and notice you can haste yourself 30% + 10% + 5%....and increase your DPS by 10% with a 10 sec re-use time skill that also decreases the mobs defense and increase your STR. The 30% haste increase lasts 15 minutes....breaks if you are hit but you won't get hit if you aren't tanking (like what scout intelligently would).We are a fast fast fast class with a spunk....we could use slight modifications but I am happy at the moment.
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Old 03-09-2005, 05:31 AM   #18
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We are a fast fast fast class with a spunk....we could use slight modifications but I am happy at the moment.
*blink* *blink**gasp*Riosk, someone better call hell, it froze over I think.... I'm about to post that I agree with your post %100... But I still tank from time to time SMILEY ...
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Old 03-10-2005, 07:43 AM   #19
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Hehe. Ruse=undercut. Sure, it used to. But last patch AE'd undercut. So now undercut can match up to 10 ruses, until they fix it. Unfortunately, the side effect is, it's AE, so you can't use it all the time anymore. Be careful with it, heheh. It's got double the radius of our other two AE lines.
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Old 03-10-2005, 08:36 AM   #20
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Wow. That could be a bit overpowering... or a bit suicidal.
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Old 03-11-2005, 12:43 AM   #21
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Erasmus wrote:
Wow. That could be a bit overpowering... or a bit suicidal.

Yeah, it's obviously a bug. The flamboyant swathe line hits up to 5 targets, the circular strike/deft rush line hits up to 10 (is this why it's precise, perhaps?) for less damage. Undercut does damage on par with flambuyant strike, but with the deft rush target cap, and twice the range of either.On the other hand, it is pretty suicidal now, heheh. The range is farther than you can zoom your camera out past, so you can't see the whole area you'll be affecting.
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