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Old 10-17-2014, 04:56 PM   #1
Katanallama

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Gonna go ahead and start a swash-specific thread, talking issues on these shared AAs / general things with the class, while trying to restrain myself BigGrin


Old / Outstanding AA issues of note
Poison Mastery, shadows tree: This AA isn't displaying properly in the tooltip for the new poisons. All old poisons it shows the modified damage, not on the new line. Either a display bug or not applying at all, would like to see this get fixed.

Enfeebling Whirl, shadow tree: This ability is horribly out dated. It's one of our slowest casting CA's with the lowest DPS potential. for a debuff that isn't as good as it used to be. Please adjust two of these issues - cast speed, damage, debuff.

Pirate's Spin, Prestige tree: this proc does nowhere near the brigand's counter part, highwayman's advance. Pirate Spin is sadly just not enough damage because it assumes every encounter has 8 mobs linked together as one unit. Please make it either a singular focus enabled blue AE or a single target proc instead more in line with highwayman's advance, it's currently better to take a third top-line ability instead or all 3 prestige ability mods.

Sleight of Hand: As mobs hit harder every expansion, this ability is losing any value in me casting it or hotbarring it. It either needs to give us some form of temporary damage prevention or replaced entirely at this point. Scariest fun spell in game.

Swarthy Ways / Epic Myth Buff: Broken record on this one, the 10% potency across the board is junk, the proc DoT is junk, the spell damage debuff is questionable - is it 10% of total spell hit, 10% of reduced damage hit on allies, or just 10% potency? It would be VERY nice to know this. The extra hate transfer is situational.

Basically this class defining mythical buff offers absolutely no discernible dps increase, a questionable debuff that may or may not be good we can't tell, a situational increase to hate transfer and a terrible, horrible damage proc.

Ruthless Cunning / Perfect Finesse: These two abilities are garbage beyond an AA endline that adds a debuff component. They add absolutely no discernible dps increase despite being up for nearly a whole minute, and yet they used to be amazing temps for many years of the game. These NEED to see a replacement or a fix, you wouldn't sell a car with a broken engine saying 'at least the windshield wipers work!' - the abilities do nothing and are only around in the event that we take the AA endline.


The new prestige abilities
Dagger Storm: As a class that suffers some hefty CA dps loss in single target scenarios, this ability is quite nice, thank you. It's a consistent parser regardless of the encounter, valuable to cast in every situation. I'll check tonight and see if Singular Focus / mezzes are taken into account though (forgot to last night). But yea, good job on this one.

Shadow: The primary issue is that it's only taking our base combat arts, what fixed Swashbuckler's AE dps are all of the AA / prestige bonuses - an additional second hit, a triggered proc when this AE lands, a reactive AE detriment... The shadow gets none of this, and so it does almost zero dps on AE and single target alike, I'll see tonight but I'm not expecting it to parse over 40k in raid. Swash DPS resides in AEs, procs and temporary effects, the shadow won't cast my temps, doesn't get my procs apparently and gets a small fraction of my AEs. Debuffs are so-so, the main issue is that if he dies or vanishes these double debuffs vanish instantly, which will be an issue on split-mob encounters.

He needs our AA modified abilities, some form of AE protection, and debuffs really should continue until they wear off, even if he despawns. As it stands now, the only ability worth taking Shadow for is Seafury Thrust, praying he doesn't get one shot.

Detect Weakness: This is unfortunately another issue of 'let's not help swashbuckler desirability.' Every raid carries a brig or an assassin as-is, if not both 99/100 times. This really was a missed opportunity to finally give Swashbucklers a unique bit of utility or debuffs that might make us more raid-desirable in non-AE fights. We NEED something unique that raids will want us for, which isn't a god darned AA that Brigands share or get a better version of.


General Breakdown
We need something more. This is another expansion of getting nothing unique and left with a lot of broken toys, hoping that people will take swashbucklers into the harder raids because someone says that swash debuffs will be good to have - yea that went well in ToV.

Alternately, instead of fixing this junk I'll also accept a duck mount.
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Old 10-18-2014, 01:37 AM   #2
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1) It doesn't affect the display, but it affects it more than listed. Test it, friend.

2) Have you used it on a mob with the new detect weakness ability to see if it reduces potency by 10 or not?
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Old 10-18-2014, 02:10 AM   #3
Katanallama

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Yep, checking those tonight actually
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Old 10-18-2014, 04:49 AM   #4
Katanallama

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1) yea... nvm just display BigGrin Looks like it might be going in before the cb / pot mods.

2) It doesn't show under potency, just checked! So yea need a dev's answer who can see the actual code Frown
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:04 PM   #5
Kickya

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Most Pug Raids never seem to want even 1 swashy if their are ANY other Scout class looking for a spot.

Most raid leaders only look at what DPS the class can put out on single targets with only an exception made for a healer or tank


Lets Face it The Swashbuckler will allways be the Sony's red headed step child.

And that NOT gonna change in this Expansion.

- - - FACT ! - - -
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:28 PM   #6
Katanallama

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I've been turned down from Ages End x2 pugs before saying I'm not a dps class. I laugh, cry and then go eat a whole tub of Cherry Garcia ice cream in my hello kitty pajamas while listening to Cher Frown
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Old 10-18-2014, 10:10 PM   #7
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Pics or it didn't happen.
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Old 10-18-2014, 10:18 PM   #8
Katanallama

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Okay fine, it was actually my Darkwing Duck pj's Frown you got me!
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:26 AM   #9
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A few quick thoughts while I have a minute to post...more later maybe

As llama said, we love procs/temps. How about a temp buff that gives +proc chance and or adds to or doubles everyone's proc dmg for x amount of time.

Make inspired daring hit much harder. Maybe make it raidwide too.

More thriving essence type ca's. How about an aa that makes all our debuffs like this. Flamboyant strike debuffs int/pot, give it to the group/raid! Lung puncture debuffs weapon skills, give it to the raid! And so on and so forth for every ability.

more random thought to come when I gets free from work
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:55 AM   #10
Ibukia

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Make engarde a perms and maybe group buff and five us another temp in its place.

pirates spin. For something that I spent the last of my prestige points in its severely underwhelming

also, I recommend that a dev play a swashy
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Old 10-19-2014, 03:45 PM   #11
Ibukia

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Since we rely on procs/temps/xtra dmg buffs maybe give us an AA that makes all our cas instacast or halves them all. I'd love to cast 6-7 cas between aitoattacks instead of the usual 3. More hitting=more dos from those types of buffs.

add a x amount of time stoneskin/dp or whatever to sleight of hand and I can see it being a great thing situationally.
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Old 10-19-2014, 04:00 PM   #12
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That stupid shadow aa is just unacceptable. It might as well not be there because no swashy will ever ever use it.

side note: this isn't important but the female swashy class hat is ugly as sin. Give us the option, maybe right click, to turn it to the male appearance.
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Old 10-28-2014, 04:28 AM   #13
Daalilama

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Come on now Kat having lama in your name increases your outgoing damage by 35% automatically .....as for your Darkwing Duck PJ's I prefer a Iron Man onesie myself....
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:05 AM   #14
Katanallama

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Actually it's the middle part of my name that adds 35%. It's so deadly that the gods decreed it blasphemous for fear of what calamity may ensue from it's utterance. Thus it is my burden, to forever annoy devs every time I beta copy to get a name change potion because goodness Tempxxyyyyyyyy is annoying as heck. Nobody will invite me to groups or the guild because it's annoying to them too. Like why is there even a name filter for using /beta?! People can't change their names when using /beta anyways, no reason to filter check the name other than to just annoy me.... ME! Goodness it's just exhausting too the rare times I've transferred servers in the past, to have to wait for a GM to say 'that name is illegal' only for me to respond with 'well It wasn't when the game launched!' and then an argument starts, things are said, and I get banned for 3 days to think about what I did. Which really I just play Mario Kart anyways, that and listen to cher while I eat cherry garcia ice cream in the corner of my bedroom with the lights off, in my darkwing duck pj's sobbing myself to sleep.


Marauder's Vaunt w/e managed to sneak past me, it's an okay band-aide, curious if it helps tho, and how it affects raid desirability.


On a more serious note, the more I do beta heroics the more annoyed I'm getting at having to change AA specs before and after almost every named in half these zones. AE trash, solo named, AE trash, solo named... Solo trash? AE named.

Can we PLEASE have AA changing not affect consumed potions / poisons? :|
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:17 AM   #15
Nezette

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Harry Potter Snuggie, or go home!

Katfriend, will you be on beta tomorrow? I would like to test things... and, you're practically a mythical being...
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:27 AM   #16
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I will still not invite you to my raids. Group setup healer/swash/tank/dirge/coercer/t1 scout? So you buff the bard whose abilities are useless, the tank who isn't casting abilities because he will take additional damage, and the other scout? This is assuming you can get away with a one healer group.

Nah. If it were RW ~maybe~. Groupwide your class is still garbage tier. Ask Xelgad to bump the #'s and make it rw.
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:34 AM   #17
Katanallama

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Would you invite me if I promised baked goods? I make a mean chocolate chip cookie from scratch! Or apple upside down pie if you're feeling bold. Consider it :3

Yea will most likely be harassing him about RW tomorrow
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:51 AM   #18
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I'd invite you because your name is Katanallama, but your class would still be best at left side bench.
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:55 AM   #19
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Also, I like your attitude, so, you SHOULD come play here.
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:58 AM   #20
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woah woah, Darkon... Kat's my bff... get your own friend, friend!
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:52 PM   #21
Nezette

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Sadly, we do not...

Though, we have a nightly act of "lols scouts." Want to be a guest lecturer sometime? SOE_Mod4 hasn't been around in a while, so... it should be safe!
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:31 PM   #22
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Bump because I do actually believe Swashies need love.

I think they fit nicely as a class who can both deal moderate damage as well as deal some moderate buffs.
I like the idea of this class being able to deal with and combat tons of things well. I don't think they should be dps gods in any situation, but they should be able at least fend for themselves respectably.

1) If we're going to make AOE blockers a thing, I think Advanced Warning should be better. Make the duration 8 seconds, but the recast 30 (at cap)

2) Swarthy Expertise should do more.
A) It should give a true outgoing damage reduction on the mob. The boost to Perfect Finesse should give a pure 5% reduction of all outgoing abilities, on top of its current effect
B) It should give a true incoming damage increase on the mob. The boost to Ruthless Cunning should provide a long-lasting debuff that absolutely guts the ability of mobs to avoid auto attacks. Especially useful on brawler mobs.

3) Enfeebling Whirl... double the damage and halve the cast time, while expanding the debuff to include all main stats, not just int and str.

4) If you're not going to allow Change of Engagement to stack, make the Swash version have a slightly different name so that Swash version and Brig version can both be used by 1 toon. Raids are already going to bring a Brigand, don't hurt the Swash by making them partially redundant when so many of their skills aren't really valued as it is.

5) Pirate's Spin - Boost the damage, and replace Damage Per Second reduction because it is redundant. Instead, allow it cause an increased impairment on autos by causing a "slowed auto" (therefore a 6sec delay weapon delayed for say...8sec) - this would again be directly in line w/ how Swashies are useful.

6) Thieving Essence is about 2 years out of date. It needs to be magnified to be roughly 20x stronger than it currently is.

7) Seafury Thrust should increase physical damage done to target by 10% instead of 5%. Make it a nice sizable boost so Swashies have a valid prestige to use when a fight isn't AE content.


Just my thoughts. Give them some love.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:41 PM   #23
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Forgot two things.

Also: Sleight of hand. Um... I think this would be a little more fun if it was on a 1 minute capped reuse that added the Swashie's avoidance to the Swashies target (raid wide) for 10 seconds. Far more value than the current use.

Also also: Swarthy Ways isn't good. At all. Definitely consider giving that a lot of love as the original poster suggested.
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Old 10-29-2014, 08:53 AM   #24
Katanallama

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Hmmmm, does Fatality do Fiesta Fridays? In HnE we have Fiesta Fridays where everyone has to have mariachi music in the background in order to talk in vent.
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Old 10-29-2014, 01:49 PM   #25
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Change of Engagement - make it like thieving essence and let it siphon some stats from the mobs. (cb/pot)

Swarthy ways - change the flamboyant strike 10% spell damage reduction and just make it the max health debuff that is on change of engagement.

Swarthy Expertise - increase damage to inspired daring .

Duelist Perception - delete the hate modifier portion. Offensive give % to proc chance, defensive give proc chance to get damage reduction . Other option would be to lift restrictions on frontal/back only procs (avast ye and lunge reversal)

Sleight of hand - turn it into a combat art and give it a 15 %chance to increase threat priority of 1 to whomever the swarthy deception is on.

Countering Blow - change the effects to improving the trigger chance by 1% per rank and at 5 points make it a always on buff.

Dashing Dance - change it to make all 30second attacks of the swashbuckler double attack, including the AA abilities( aoes don't count).

Potency - End line in the Swashbuckler tree add proc % of items to the description.

Just want to point out Master strikes should be usable on all mobs and only the mobs with the lore and legend should give the debuffs.
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Old 10-31-2014, 05:06 AM   #26
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I'm completely ignorant of raid meta, but I do wonder what would make Swashbucklers attractive to you for that circumstance?
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Old 10-31-2014, 05:30 AM   #27
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In a nutshell, they don't provide anything that you actually need, or that others can't do while doing other stuff better.

Like, sure, they have a hate transfer... so do assassins. You could even math the point that the swash hate transfer is better (situational, or otherwise), but who cares since there's already a cycling of shout/AV...

They share swipe/COE/torp strke with brigands... but brigands offer mit debuffs.

So what do they offer that's unique? Decreasing a mob's melee stats? Oh boy! Considering tanks/healers are just keeping a constant rotation of saves rolling, who cares if a mob hits a tank for 10 million or 8 million. Either one would be a one-shot... (Though, that int debuff...!)

Maurader's Vaunt on paper looks nice... too bad CAs hit for jack so the impact is negligible. (Also, being group only, makes it a waste, as well.)

I mean, Kat parses well (and he has a bunny), so he warrants a spot, but... yeah.
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:34 AM   #28
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Pretty much what Nezet posted.

They don't bring % max health debuffs like Brig/Ranger/Assassin, and their DPS isn't 2x those other classes DPS to compensate for it.

Any scout will never outparse a competent mage.

Thus, they're useless in raids.

Marauders Vaunt would be neat if scouts parsed like mages, but they don't, so, yeah. Or if it was RW and ~40%, then maybe.

Right now scout CA's are garbage, so buffing them by 10% is like multiplying by 0.

Scout DPS is like 60% auto, 20% procs, and 20% CA's.

So, best case scenario, you're looking at amplifying 20% of another t1 scout and 15% of a bards DPS assuming 1 healer/1 tank group (which you cant usually get because you'll want 2 priests in scout/tank groups).

So, you're multiplying 10%, of 20%, of someone doing ~7% of your RW.

.1x.2x.07 = .0014% RW from MV. To put it in perspective, if your raidwide is 100M, you're getting 140,000 DPS. It's utterly negligible. Literally a sol ro temp pet would give you 10x more returns.

Technically I'm not including the bard, but even if you factor in the bard as equal to the predator, it's still bad @ 280k. My wrist on my tank does ~300k.

tl;dr No utility outside of what you'd already have with a brigand, and not-mage levels of DPS renders the Swashbuckler unusable. The same is true for beastlords.
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:52 AM   #29
Nezette

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From what I've seen of Kat's parses, his CA % is about on par with mine... usually hovering around 10ish%. So, the above mathing is actually super generous!

___________
Sidenote: I really kind of hate the suggestion of copy/pasting the AOE block component of Blinding Dusts onto Advance Warning-- that's super lazy. Does AW suck? Sure-- but copy/paste fixes are terrible.
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Old 11-02-2014, 06:49 AM   #30
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It's more so a tricky situation of, "OMG SWASH!" for some of the heroic content, and then "omg, swash...." ~ a lot of raid fights don't quite lend themselves to the swash's strengths, but the 8+ mob heroic AE happy fun spam content can get a lil silly. Pretty much the issue strikes in the higher end raid content - one mob, minimal adds to AE or don't make use of our reset mechanics, sad times Frown

I did do something nobody's going to believe tho! I took some ability mod in the new prestige tree BigGrin
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