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Old 10-16-2014, 06:19 PM   #31
Maergoth

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Manawall is revamped on beta, but it's not good enough. It uses like, half your mana bar to provide 3 seconds of stoneskin or something.With a substantial recast.
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:26 PM   #32
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20s duration, 15 hit stoneskin, half your mana, sounds good.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:32 PM   #33
Maergoth

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did they increase it to 20s?
It was 5s or something.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:34 PM   #34
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It's 4s. It needs to be 20s. 4s is trash.
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Old 10-21-2014, 07:48 PM   #35
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Yeah I tried this today it 4.4 sec duration and takes half you mana. The way I read it was suppose to take a base cast power of 23,824 and an additional 30% of power( now idk if that out of the total power you have or the amount of power you have after casting mana wall) but it a lot and 4.4 is way too short of a duration that's trash for how much mana it takes. It should either be 15 or 20 sec with it current power consumption . This really needs to be relooked at and balanced better Also would be great if devs would look at Divine aura and demonstration of faith as well since both are pretty useless at this point in the game.
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Old 10-24-2014, 05:21 AM   #36
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prestige paladin line I had vital trigger and diamond flesh, and the worked for a few days then stopped anyone else having this problem , I recasted my aa and still same thing.
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Old 10-24-2014, 01:18 PM   #37
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What do you mean it worked then stopped? I didn't find either of them particularly useful, but they do seem to function somewhat.
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Old 10-24-2014, 05:21 PM   #38
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Update on something I suddenly care about.

The "Lay Hands" stoneskin mechanic is broken. Probably has been all alone. It's supposed to apply a stoneskin trigger to your target and yourself, unless yourself is the target. However, I'm pretty sure if your target's stoneskin trigger gets consumed, you lose your trigger also.

As in.. I should be able to lay hands on the main tank, intercept him, and take no damage if the hit is over 15% of my max health. That is not the case. Most of the time, the personal trigger just evaporates, unless I am the target, and then I get one-shotted.

So please.. test it yourself, bug report it, and get it fixed.. because I've used up all my dev points for a while.

Side note, wait until you guys see my new AA spec for the expansion.
It's hilarious.
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Old 10-25-2014, 07:40 AM   #39
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ok maer i just played with it a little and i am fairly sure you are correct the stone skin is only applying to my target and if the target is my self i dont get a stone skin trigger. so thats what i have seen and as everyone else has said manawall needs to have a longer duration or it is basicly useless unless everything else is down witch is kinda rare to have happen.
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:08 PM   #40
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Manawall shouldn't be 20 seconds, but it should be longer than 4. Maybe 6 or 8. Or like 10 seconds and 5 hits. (Also unrelated, but the War/Cru starting AAs in the new prestige should be the same duration too, not one being 4 and the other being 10.)
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:13 PM   #41
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Considering that monks have an almost full chain of immunities, manawall really need a big boast. Ran domi today on my necro with a monk, inqui was doing decent healing (granted that he has not great gear and that he is an alt) but fury did just 80-90 k (I wonder what he was doing, my warden is alway over 200K there and close to 300 if solo healing anything else than a berzeker).

Tank was saying : 1 st life down, second life down, third life down, immune, stoneskin etc ...
Since we had 2 healer and not a great group compo it took forever to kill the dude.

My paladin certainly has some autonomy : favor of Maar, DA, stonewall, crusader faith, lay on hand, other heals that bring DR, but he would had died much faster than the monk given the low hps of the healer. Tank told me than in wing 3 paladin (and probably the two crusaders) are not doing really well. Many mobs hit for so much that it's all about using immunities and in such conditions DA and crusader faith are quite useless.

I'm not saying that Pals are totally broken, i never got problem is heroic content (except for domination) neither in Easy raid one. But even there monks and prob zerks are jut doing better.
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Old 10-25-2014, 03:29 PM   #42
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This all of you mentioned and true error of our class as well as some persist for years.

I myself have most of them already taken up more than 50 times in the forum and also in the addon betas, and tries in direct conversations with Xelgad and also with Kander to respond to improvement and introduce them to the problems and errors.

My personal summary is that there is not even a single time in responding reasonably.

A beta forum is this also additionally the worst platform, because here expect the developer usually an opinion on the new and not encounter any problems, and class customization.

I've given up believing it, they for the whole of our class skills which have been rendered useless over the years ever to balance the Paladin class.

This can now even go and a subclass group (Brawler) a permanent buff out there, and the others again only a 10 second ability every 3 minutes, although the leather tank virtually no difference in the reduction to at least on life servers to plate tanks have more shows but how much one is not trying to find a balance.

Of course it can not be seen on the upcoming Gear, because we do not know this, how is the difference in the present life server so it is a joke.

In this sense, you do not let interfere, as always, your own thoughts, without the community involve, enforce and audition us we would have a say in terms of balance.

I have in my EQ2 time from the beginning never experienced that was received on the objections of the community. Also not on the objections of the Community Councils where I was still belonged.

Anyway we do not wait for what the developers make of it more opportunities remain to us.

Possible that this is due to my bad English, I do not want to exclude.

Best Regards
Ingerimm of Valor
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Old 10-26-2014, 03:15 AM   #43
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it all starts with one simple question, do you know your class limits and how to overcome them. No class is perfect and will probably never be. When it comes to balancing there is always going to be people who aren't happy with their situation. For example I am confident saying these people have tanked everything in the current expac and succeeded regardless of class limits.

Maergoth = pally
Darkonx = sk
Genghes = bruiser
every guard mting endgame
every monk mting endgame
every zerker mting endgame

learn your tank's temp limits and cycle....learn your healers temps and ask for them accordingly. if little changes were to happen for each tank class would it make things easier for them.... yes. is it impossible to perform with current mechanics and abilities....no. if you learn each encounters mechanics and understand when to hit each of your temps you will do fine. Having the right gear helps as well. if you aren't able to tank something dig into act and see what is railing you and understand what you can do to avoid it.


my 2c
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:13 AM   #44
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Yes i agree i MT as a pally and can run my temps just fine and stay alive i was posting things that do need work like our stone skin not giving us the trigger of a stone skin i honestlly never paid attention untill maer said something because that stoneskin has not really made a huge difference to playing my class and doing my job, but i can tell you the only real reason maer said anything about our lay on hands stone skin is because that is the only true stone skin a pally gets.
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Old 10-26-2014, 07:55 AM   #45
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So good even my opinion on our new beta prestigious skills.

Holy Warding => hm ok that is available and used meaningfully => though I'd rather see a permanent improvement in the defensive stance as the brawlers.

Vital trigger => pretty useless, too complicated to apply, tanks have better things to do than to ensure an ability to push new all 14,749 seconds, so they do not fall within the 60 seconds reuse

(Note> that the reuse is still not working, at the time the ability is still 100% of the time available)

Furthermore, 1.5% of the max HP hate gain? Pointless! these are 25.000 to 40.000 hate depending on the HP .... a taunt or taunt proc makes 3.000.000-40.000.000 => 25.000 so have absolutely no effect.

So live Heal 5% form members max HP for the group, hm very weak, with 600.000 HP group members get a single heal from 30.000 points to 1.200.000 HP group members with a singel heal by 60.000 points so pretty useless.

Diamond Flesh => pretty useless, too rarely applied due to high re-use, too hard to Timing, if you should need 3 seconds 30% reduction.

Tanks have to have to do better than they did two additional timer with abort conditions in mind.
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:57 PM   #46
Ingerimm

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@Genhes

1. No one said that any class is perfect, unfortunately, the Paladin class is that which has the most errors / bugs, which are caused by changes and has never been adjusted.

2. Who has seen as much of the Content, at all does not matter how good this is familiar with his class or not. For a Raid now include even 24 people and not just one person. Therefore, it is a statement that it would be so pretty moronic.

3. You can not do more than point out, if the developer an adjustment, repair or correction do not want to make it do this just do not.

.........
here for you and the developer, a small list of existing errors / bugs or mismatches.

- mythical buff "Marrs Favor" => damage proc component "Marrs Fury" => makes real 900 to 1.600 damage per hit if it because the mob at all times hits (hitrate between 40% an 75%)

- Ward a component of "Blessing of the Paladin VII" => 313 points

- AA Ward for the group => "Aura of Leadership" => 2.550 points

- Singel Ward => "Demonstration of Faith VIII" => 18.853 base points

- HP Buff on => "Prayer of Healing VIII" => 1.131,2 HP

- HP Buff on => "Devout Sacrement VII" => 1.227,2 HP

- HP Buff on => "Lay on Hands VII" => 1.454 HP

- Aura of the Crusader (Cure + immunity) => everything is where today would help this a curse or not curable thus the ability useless

- Mana Wall => useless because you immediately Mana is empty hits with today's damage => the residual damage to the amount of mana anyway, even if it is the same hit

That's what so quick to think of me, it is not with all safety.

Where is the problem simply times to correct this error and adapt accordingly, now if you could see even with these errors the Endcontent or not plays no role at all!

I do not begrudge also any other class that such defects or mismatches will be corrected.
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Old 10-31-2014, 06:57 PM   #47
Ingerimm

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Dear developers,

are there any plans our many problems of the Paladin class, whether new or old, to finally correct?

I mean how many times we have you now responded to the problems and never received a statement or a correction?

Sorry, but you repeatedly for years to ask you to perform these corrections and no reactions or corrections to see is really pointless and annoying. (Some things are so well until ToV yet, not so old but now even more like a year now it was not corrected)

new problems:

- Vital trigger => reuse timer still does not function => so we can not make any objective judgment to the ability, as the ability is always available at the moment. (no exclusion on the reuse at the moment)

- Our Wards are now partly critically worked for a legendary, fabled or mythical trigger => either you let them look again completely critical or not a random mix is nonsense

old problems:

- Ward values ​​were the healings tanks may no longer be critical patch / update, not adapted and forgotten, here finally need to be made once, so the meet again this a useful function

- HP Short buffs on our healings were, since the HP values ​​change in ToV not adapted to today's HP values ​​so that still give them a tangible sense

- Give the "Aura of the Crusader" (Cure + immunity) meaning again by this cure curses and incurable effects that ability or immunize at least let

- Repair times please our Raidbuff "crusade" (in all versions), so that also affects the healing improvement for the raid and is not only in the display effect and actually it has no effect.

Thank you
Best Regards
Ingerimm of Valor

ps. Dev's: If you look at it not as a problem or need of correction, then so be it, only we would have liked to at least this info, where lies the problem? Always our concern to silence and thus we run, face the wall and let us keep talking to the wall is not necessary I think.

This only leads to unnecessary resentment and frustration, so why? You would have to say ok but only once we look at the problems or no, that everything is as wanted it that way, no more or less is expected of us, at least from me.
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Old 11-01-2014, 02:33 AM   #48
Maergoth

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I have chosen to opt out of further discussion for the time being. At some point, my "expertise" has become perceived as entitlement, and my attitude towards a lack of concern for the situation has made me seem like a spoiled brat with an attitude problem.

And that is something I don't identify myself as.

As such, I would kindly ask the paladin community, and the fighter community in general, to be more vocal. Be careful, but be vocal. Be constructive, and be reasonable. Everything is already on the table that needs to be corrected. Pick something and become an expert and advocate for it. Like Ingerimm.

Carry on, soldier.
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Old 11-01-2014, 04:55 PM   #49
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Not sure it is the class with the most issues, but probably the tank class with the most issues.
I remember the days when my paladin self ward was not that far from my shaman ST ward, sure the recast was way bigger
and ward was self only but it was really handy to pull without using a big temp.

This is a general issue, many healers do have HP bufs associated to heals, and some bufs are now very small.

This is the most important issue, one of our best temp is now u(almost) seless.

That's what so quick to think of me, it is not with all safety.
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Old 11-01-2014, 08:31 PM   #50
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It's meant everything constructively, if the language barrier prevents or distorts it so I'm sorry.
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Old 11-02-2014, 12:21 AM   #51
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You're doing it well. Many of your arguments have been written by me. This is a really big problem and very bad that we do not have the answer. Although it is not a reason to cease writing. Thank you.
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Old 11-05-2014, 03:40 AM   #52
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Amazing change to Holy Warding. Absolutely awesome.

Now, if Diamond Skin was made viable, and the values on Trigger were adjusted, i'd be happy going into the expansion.
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Old 11-05-2014, 03:59 AM   #53
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I guess the values might have been changed. I don't remember what they were. But diamond skin hasn't changed, for sure.
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Old 11-05-2014, 05:20 PM   #54
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I'm Maergoth his opinion, "Holy Warding" is really ok, even if it will help only in a few situations the group at 1:30 min reuse.

Vital trigger is now also in function, including reuse, the hate increase and reduction were well adapted so that it will have an impact albeit a small one.

The healing component should also be adjusted accordingly so that gives them a sense. If that would be so so the ability to "Vital trigger" is also ok and functional.

I think the ability to "Diamond Flesh" will select almost no one as long as this is not yet adapted. 5% damage reduction are in most cases negligible, and the 3 seconds short of the 30%. At least at a minimum reuse 2:30.

A change in 30 seconds to 15% reduction and 6 seconds 50% reduction would be useful to reuse at 2:30.

or

A change to 30 seconds to 5% reduction and 6 seconds to 30% reduction useful in 25 seconds reuse would be another possibility.
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Old 11-05-2014, 05:30 PM   #55
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I still stand by the fact that Diamond Flesh won't be viable in it's current state until the 5% DR is maintained with a 40% DR toggle-off, 6s duration, 2 minute locked recast or something.

I personally just don't think anything like this should be under a 6s duration, which is my complaint with Mana wall. Even Faith is HUUUGELY inconsistent because of it. Lag and luck just completely defeat short duration abilities.
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:41 AM   #56
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Faith is close to be unsuable (without the instant cast AA) ... a bit of lag and it's too early or too late. Moreover in many case we don't have a very precise idea of when something is going to happen, many "bad" things happen without any casting bar, i hate act trigger and using a stopwatch is imprecise due to debufs.

Abilties with duration below 5 seconds are simply wrong, this apply to summoner pet new immunity too.
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Old 11-06-2014, 02:06 AM   #57
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I'm not sure if Holy Warding is actually functioning though. Maybe the radius is just incredibly small. It needs to have a 100m radius or something, so the paladin can tank and still hit his group with utility.

However, since the buff doesn't give that type of info, there's no way to test it in a real situation.

EDIT: Certainly not functioning in any noticeable capacity.
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Old 11-06-2014, 08:14 AM   #58
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Here is one change I would make to a fairly outdated ability.

Why not change Heretic's Destruction to a 15% increase to potency and crit bonus of the caster's base potency/cb? Kind of like how focused casting works (but both pot/cb). If 15% is too high, you could reduce it to 10% for each. It seems there are a lot of abilities that now increase crit bonus and potency by a percentage of the base value, so why not extend it to this ability.

Obviously, paladins have other issues (amount of health buff added to heals, demonstration of faith, short duration of temporary immunity etc) but this change seems like something that could be done fairly simply and turns a very lackluster and outdated ability into something decent. It also brings some utility to paladins and provides a reason to bring them along (much like why people want to bring a brawler for combat mastery).
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Old 11-07-2014, 05:57 PM   #59
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Vital Trigger gets wrecked by Earth Shock on all fronts. Feels bad.

Vital Trigger: 1% of my parse
Earth Shock: 10-15% of the SK/Zerk parse

ugh.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:31 PM   #60
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You sure your doing it right? Our guard had 81k dps and 133k threat per second.
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