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Old 09-03-2006, 08:39 PM   #1
Zooey

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Hi all.Some weeks ago I created a Ratonga Brigand, did the Betrayal Quest and I am now one of the very few Ratonga Swashys on my Server.He's Level 36 now - and I can say that this little guy is fun to play. I especially like all that utility stuff like Group stealth, Track and Evac. I soloed most of the time and had no trouble winning fights against up to yellow con single mobs (learned to stay away from any ^^^ mobs though...).One thing that bothers me though is his damage. Yesterday I joined a pickup group in Varsoon and got beaten (dps-wise) by a monk 3 levels below me.  I know that Monks can dish out quite some damage - my main is a 70 Monk. And I really think in those levels he as well was better than my Swashy is. Add to that te better tanking abilities and the overall better "survivability" of my Monk - and so I wonder at what level my little Swashy starts to become what he's supposed to be.Just in case that it's important to you: My spells are all Adept 1 (except from the Master 2 choices), I dual wield imbued feyiron weapons, have like 125 STR and 130 AGI and a decent mix of legendary and mastercrafted armor.
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Old 09-03-2006, 08:44 PM   #2
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50-52 you get your bread and butter:  Hurricane (always on AE melee) and Inspired Daring (one of the best burst DPS buffs in the game).
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Old 09-03-2006, 09:24 PM   #3
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I've noticed when grouped with brawlers that if the fights are really short, they tend to come out on top.  If the fights last any decent amount of time, you should be able to catch up/pass them dps wise.Also, make sure you're using poison, mastercrafted if you can get it.
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Old 09-04-2006, 01:31 PM   #4
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And for the poison to proc more often remember to put some stats on Int.
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Old 09-04-2006, 04:45 PM   #5
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Tarya wrote:And for the poison to proc more often remember to put some stats on Int.

Int does not affect chance to proc. It affects poison damage.
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Old 09-04-2006, 08:27 PM   #6
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swashy's do good dmg but not as much as brigs, thats the trade off for all there cool debuffs and stuff. But to out dps most anyone id say first to get the spell that u put on the tank to put ur hate on them adept 3 then go for master crafted poisens as they hit for alot. Weather u like ur dmg instant or dots is up to you. Then its just a matter of using ur skills to the best of ur abilities until u get higher up and get ur awsome spells, or use ur aa lines for spells. I never have trouble out dpsing my monk with my swash. He doesnt rival mages, but he sits nicely in his own tier with fun and utility to match for grping.
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Old 09-04-2006, 10:06 PM   #7
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holystones wrote:
swashy's do good dmg but not as much as brigs, thats the trade off for all there cool debuffs and stuff. But to out dps most anyone id say first to get the spell that u put on the tank to put ur hate on them adept 3 then go for master crafted poisens as they hit for alot. Weather u like ur dmg instant or dots is up to you. Then its just a matter of using ur skills to the best of ur abilities until u get higher up and get ur awsome spells, or use ur aa lines for spells. I never have trouble out dpsing my monk with my swash. He doesnt rival mages, but he sits nicely in his own tier with fun and utility to match for grping.


Wrong.
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Old 09-05-2006, 02:43 AM   #8
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and how is it wrong? There attacks hit for a good deal more. Hell there 1 of the top raiding dpsers aside from assasins and ur pet classes.
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Old 09-05-2006, 03:28 AM   #9
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cuz they don't got hurricane and inspiration and our aggro control!
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Old 09-05-2006, 05:16 AM   #10
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holystones wrote:and how is it wrong? There attacks hit for a good deal more. Hell there 1 of the top raiding dpsers aside from assasins and ur pet classes.

I'm sorry, the only people that constantly out DPS me on a raid are assassin and necro, ranger and wizzy/warlock are about even and conjy and brigand don't come close.Before you say anything against the people I raid with, I am not unique in this area, there are alot of high end swashies that do the same, its just a matter of knowing your class.But then, if you believe brigands are so good, go play one, just means more masters for me.Raid sample 1(01:19) 1414534 | 17,905.49Ranger 126134 | 1,596.63Assassin112991 | 1,430.27Lukia 105058 | 1,329.85Warlock 100445 | 1,271.46Wizard 96445 | 1,220.82Wizard 85491 | 1,082.17Wizard 84601 | 1,070.90Bruiser 79487 | 1,006.17Ranger 67332 | 852.30Bruiser 67229 | 851.00Brigand 63080 | 798.48Shadowknight 62102 | 786.10Guardian 61544 | 779.04Monk 60828 | 769.97Illusionist 59293 | 750.54Brigand 47343 | 599.28Raid Sample 2(01:00) 1096432 | 18,273.87Assassin 111747 | 1,862.45Lukia 111013 | 1,850.22Ranger 74798 | 1,246.63Bruiser 70814 | 1,180.23Wizard 64832 | 1,080.53Ranger 64345 | 1,072.42Warlock 63599 | 1,059.98Wizard 54266 | 904.43Guardian 53872 | 897.87Wizard 52234 | 870.57Monk 50858 | 847.63Brigand 46595 | 776.58Bruiser 44946 | 749.10Brigand 42255 | 704.25Samples are from named mobs in LabsNo go roll a brigand and prove me wrong.
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Old 09-05-2006, 05:22 AM   #11
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oh and before you carry on about what nmaed, they must of been cake or anything like that, here's the one from Lord Vyemm(02:43) 2333603 | 14,316.58Assassin 248725 | 1,525.92Ranger 191445 | 1,174.51Lukia 165502 | 1,015.35Wizard 152593 | 936.15Bruiser136956 | 840.22Warlock 127858 | 784.40Monk 127761 | 783.81Bruiser 124375 | 763.04Wizard 117185 | 718.93Ranger 117005 | 717.82Brigand 116457 | 714.46Brigand 114874 | 704.75both Brigands had Dirge buffs, where I had Troubie buffs (pretty much useless for me except the extra 11% I get to haste, with no DPS buff)
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Old 09-05-2006, 06:54 AM   #12
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I dont raid much. Numbers are numbers. But I do see that apperently brigs suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in the end game and swashy's win all. God I hope my swash doesnt get nerfed now.
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Old 09-05-2006, 09:03 AM   #13
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thats just an example.......
 
Pain
Allies: (01:47) 2038333 | 19049.84 [-Ice Nova-17871]
Assassin 190484 | 1780.22
Brigand 181085 | 1692.38
Wizard 160628 | 1501.20
Swashbuckler 155047 | 1449.04
Ranger 144718 | 1352.51
Wizard 139043 | 1299.47
Brigand 138158 | 1291.2
Illusionist131422 | 1228.24
Troubador 124243 | 1161.15
Monk 115882 | 1083.01
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Old 09-05-2006, 10:40 AM   #14
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:smileysurprised:
I was told it impacts proc and when I started to increase Int from AA I suddenly started to ran out of poisons really fast... I mean way faster than before so I assumed it was proccing more. *shrugs* go figure - at least int doesn't hurt *winks*
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Old 09-05-2006, 02:55 PM   #15
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My swashy REALLY shines DPS wise when:- I use Hurricane (chance to hit all mobs in front of you)- I start Perfect Finesse, Inspiration and En Garde- I use Dashing Swathe and Lucky RuseDo that, use your deaggro abilities at the same time while having aggro transfer on your tank, and your tank will love you as well.Also, we shine in other areas than just DPS...we shine in things the parsers don't readily show. You bet the tank notices though, when you are not there to debuff the mob.
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Old 09-05-2006, 09:22 PM   #16
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Zooey wrote:

 My spells are all Adept 1 (except from the Master 2 choices), I dual wield imbued feyiron weapons, have like 125 STR and 130 AGI and a decent mix of legendary and mastercrafted armor.



Adept 1 doesn't cut it. Mastercrafted is the baseline quality for everything in this game. You need to upgrade your skills to Adept 3 for anything you don't have at Master.
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Old 09-06-2006, 02:03 AM   #17
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I'm generally only out DPS'd by rangers. Once in awhile an assassin might sneak in there, but....For the most part, rangers.

 

Also, a warlock or a wizard who dont care about getting aggro can. :p

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Old 09-07-2006, 03:22 AM   #18
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This is something that I have been wondering. 

My swashie is level 38, all gear is mastercrafted or legendary, all CAs are master.  I dual wield mastercrafted weapons for the proc and try to use mastercrafted poisons as much as possible (they're not always available).

My self-buffed strength is at 278 and my agi is around 230.

That having been said, I regularly group parse anywhere from 200-250 dps with my max parse around 350 dps.  Is this where I should be?  Should I be doing something different to maximize dps?

I've never played a dps class before so I don't really know what to expect.  I usually top the parse in groups unless there is a higher level dps class but I'm not sure if 200-250 dps is adequate in a group setting.

Willing to listen to any advice given.

Thanks,

Manuv - 38 swashbuckler

Sorry, forgot to mention that I only have 4 AAs at the moment.  I don't know if that is par for the course at level 38 or not.

Message Edited by Roger1111 on 09-06-2006 04:27 PM

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Old 09-07-2006, 06:47 PM   #19
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Roger1111 wrote:

Sorry, forgot to mention that I only have 4 AAs at the moment.  I don't know if that is par for the course at level 38 or not.

Message Edited by Roger1111 on 09-06-2006 04:27 PM


I have 13 at lvl45 and I know I could have more.  If you want more AA's do ALL the HQ's available for your level including jboots but make sure you mentor down before you complete.  AA does not suffer the mentor penalty from what I can tell.  Also, if you have DoF, run to every location in Sinking Sands and Maj'Dul.  Zone into the instances and run far enough to get the discovery.  You can also stealth all the way to to Solusek Ro in Lavastorm and almost everywhere in Everfrost, Feerrott, Rivervale, etc....

It's well worth the time to get that free AA.

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Old 09-08-2006, 02:31 AM   #20
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Swashies are great for two things in end game: dps and debuff.
Except for one of our real big ones, we will have access to most of the debuffs from fairly early level. dps on the other hand, will unfortunatly not really come untill later. Hurricane - chance to hit up to 4 mobs with autoattack is lvl 52, Daring - procs an extra pierce attack on each attack is lvl 50 and lvl 70, en garde - extra attack on each deflect/parry/riposte/block is lvl 65 and even double attacks from AA's will require a lot before it gets really valuable. Two skills somewhat midlevel that will help is the Finesse line (Artfull Finesse lvl 39) wich increase haste and dps and Ruthless Cunning (our bloodlines skill, lvl 35, dun need the adventure pack to buy it, just a friendly jeweler) wich raises dps.
By the time you get to level 70 with 50 AA's the situation will be very different from what it is pre-50.
 
As for the brigand vs swashie thing.. We kill them damage wise, especially on AE fights, but we cant come close to their debuffing skills. With my guild having two raiding swashies we can go out on dps in a way a brigand really shouldnt, especially if you only have one. The extra dps their skills generate via rest of raid is much more important then them topping the numbers in an individual parse and a brigand that dies of pulling agro hurts more then a swashie dying of pulling agro. Thus, we have both the capabilities and the situation for parseing higher, but their contribution is of equal or higher value. Both rogues are highly usefull raid classes, just not exactly in same way, even tho we share a lot.
 
 
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Old 09-12-2006, 01:59 PM   #21
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Hey - my newbie question turned into a quite interesting thread here. Thanks for all the input, guys.My Swashy turned 40 lately and things are starting to improve gradually. I will now work on Serrated Bone Dirk, Ykesha and FBSS Heritage and try to get a nice set of Ebon Armor for him.Can't wait to reach the 50ies and get all that nice CAs you're talking about.Right now there's just one more thing that troubles me: I really don't know how to skill him AA-wise. OK - STR line is a must, I guess (spent all my points there so far). But I'm not sure about the rest. Do I really want a tanking Swashy? Though I like tanking and off-tanking in groups, I think that's what my Monk ist made for. Will I have access to some really good 1-hander that will outperform two dual-wielders? Or should I go INT line with it's hate decreasers and FD (which I learned to love as a Monk)?Well, I guess time will tell - and at the moment I really enjoy playing my little swordsman.Thanks again
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:49 PM   #22
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what ill do for my brig is str/sta untill level 70 where ill respec str/wis
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:21 PM   #23
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The AP lines you choose and the points you put into each one should be determined by the way you want to play your character in solo, grouped and raid situations. Many raiding Swashies choose the STR line. I still expect to spend most of my time either solo or in small groups/duoed and so I'm going for AGI and WIS (hoping to pick up a really fine one-handed rapier, if they still exist).
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Old 09-13-2006, 08:09 PM   #24
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there are a ton of posts by some very intelligent people about AA options who have done a hell of alot of research into them, try the sticky called rogue achievment analysis by rokjin, awsome post plus has some good points after it, all the info u would ever need is on that sticky, but for YOUR character, as peeps said that's all about how u wanna play

personally im gonna go str/wis as i will be raiding, our guild is short a swashie & too many fighters, so i started a swashie, lvl 57 & having a blast, i love this dps stuff lol

but will be going int line at the start possibly so i can get the immune to aoe's so i can get in on the raid action b4 70, poss 67 that way i will be a use to the raids & not dying all the time to those nasty AoE's saving my coin on precious masters & not to the mender

 

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Old 09-13-2006, 09:00 PM   #25
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BTW ...not sure you become immune to AOEs with the intelligence line...the duration is 30s and its only when in Feign death that you are immune to aoes

 

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Old 09-16-2006, 09:07 AM   #26
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My own personal experience as a Brigand raiding... others will have different experiences... is that if I can be confident in the tank holding aggro and can go full bore (requires being very fluid and timing deaggros right) I can confidently outdamage Swashbucklers simply by virtue of knowing exactly when my debuffs are comming and exploiting them to the full.

Much of the time however dps isn't my primary concern and making 100% sure I don't draw aggro is in which case the Swashbuckler may pull ahead. I'm pretty confident that any good Swashbuckler that's paying attention could comfortably outdamage me... I've just moved guilds and suspect I might start to experience such.

It does have to be said there's significant variance in Swash, Brig and Ranger dps from player to player and guild to guild. It's very hard to state who stacks where across the board. You might find one situation in one guild and the reverse in another.

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Old 09-17-2006, 04:00 AM   #27
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Licit wrote:oh and before you carry on about what nmaed, they must of been cake or anything like that, here's the one from Lord Vyemm(02:43) 2333603 | 14,316.58Assassin 248725 | 1,525.92Ranger 191445 | 1,174.51Lukia 165502 | 1,015.35Wizard 152593 | 936.15Bruiser136956 | 840.22Warlock 127858 | 784.40Monk 127761 | 783.81Bruiser 124375 | 763.04Wizard 117185 | 718.93Ranger 117005 | 717.82Brigand 116457 | 714.46Brigand 114874 | 704.75both Brigands had Dirge buffs, where I had Troubie buffs (pretty much useless for me except the extra 11% I get to haste, with no DPS buff)

You're making an extreme sweeping generalisation there. Just because you have two Brigands that do around 700 DPS, doesn't mean that is the case in every single raid. From what I have found raiding with Brigands that are well equipped and know their class, is that it's pretty tight. Of course parsing will always vary Guild to Guild due to encounters fought, raid setup, and gear/spells/playstyle of each person, but what I have mostly found is this: Without Inspiration and PF, I on average get beaten by a couple of hundred DPS. With those buffs however, I can easily win. Zone-wide parses are extremely tight (factoring in Swashies get affected by AOEs), but it does seem Brigs do slightly more DPS overall, in my experience. Here is the zonewide parse for our latest Lyceum run:Allies: (52:41) 45101082 | 14267.98 [Assassin #1- Decapitate-24926]Assassin #1 4650837 | 1471.32Brigand  3977449 | 1258.29Assasin #2 3692949 | 1168.29Me 3678679 | 1163.77Necro #1 3244561 | 1026.44Necro #2 2946043 | 932.00Brigand #2 2912275 | 921.31Assassin #3 2787290 | 881.77Warlock 2645667 | 836.97Bruiser 2423711 | 766.75This is probably a good idea of the average DPS zone to zone for my guild. Others will be different.

Message Edited by CrazedMutha on 09-16-2006 05:02 PM

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Old 09-17-2006, 07:28 PM   #28
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Only time I ever get beat by brigands in zonewides is HoS - and even then I usually win.  Deathtoll I usually win by 50 to 100 DPS thanks to the small about of AE.  Lyceum and Labs aren't even close, I win by 300+ DPS.  For reference:

Raid merged DPS in HoS/DT ~ 12,500 | Lyceum/Lab ~ 16,000

My merged DPS in HoS/DT ~ 1,250 | Lyceum ~ 1800, Lab 1600

Brig is usually 1,200-1,400 no matter what, both same AA, he's using Shadow Axe, I use Kilij.  His play skill is on par with my own.

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Old 09-17-2006, 08:45 PM   #29
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There is a huge difference between the dps you are doing and the dps you're capable of doing. Raid set-up, group set-up, gear, skill, and effort are what effect your dps, even more than what dps class you pick. That is the reason some brigands/swashes/whatevers do 700 dps, and some do 1800. It is impossible to know which class is the best dps unless you have a fixed scenario, where raid set-up, group set-up, gear, skill, and effort are exactly the same for both classes. Although since skill in one class can't be accuratley compared to skill in another class, there is no real way to judge this. Judging what a class can do by only looking at the people you commonly raid with is a bad idea. What if your raid had 2 brigands and one swash, and the the 2 brigands did 900 dps regularily while the swash did 700. You would get the impression brigands were better than swashes, not realizing that the same thing but reversed could be happening in a different raid.In my opinion, the best way to know what class does more dps than the other is to know what other people are parsing. Compare the top players of both classes and you've got your answer. You can still only get a rough feel of what class is better, but it is the best way there is.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:56 PM   #30
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A swashbuckler (who doesn't suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]) will always out DPS a brigand, if they have the same group setups.
 
Also, a brigand will never be able to exceed 1.3k without grabbing aggro and dying.
 
Edit: Also, in regards to AE, a good swashbuckler knows how to joust.

Edit 2: A better swashbuckler can survive AE's with at least 60% health.

Message Edited by Cocytus on 09-17-2006 09:58 AM

 

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