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Old 10-10-2009, 10:45 AM   #1
Paikis

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Firstly a disclaimer. Yes, this is about gear. Understand that I am not asking for raid gear to be given to PvPers. What I am asking for is equality in PvP combat between the two play styles. Ideally what I would like to see done (heck, I'll do it myself if I could) is to have a dev go through the raid dropped gear for the next expansion and look at any procs that are included. Either tone them down, or completely disable them for PvP combat. With that said, and please keep it in mind when reading ahead, there are 2 things I want to bring up. Both relate to itemization differences between PvP gear and Raid gear, specifically procs. 

First. An item I want you to look at (specifically, look at the proc, Vitae of the Elder): aITEM -124004185 -1415524174:Girdle of Mistmyrian Legacy/a - Zarrakon

Now I realise this is raid gear, and yes, I know that the mob it drops off is one of the more difficult raid encounters. But this belt has no place in PvP. A single priest with this belt on will easily keep a whole group at full power. You don't even need a bard/chanter for power regen anymore. What I would like to see done is one of two things. First option; Give PvPers a similar item, with less stats if you must, with the proc only working in PvP combat. Fair enough it shouldn't work in PvE, you don't want to affect PvE content by giving PvPers powerful items. What you have essentially done though is ensure that raiders (the ones able to get this item) have a large advantage over the PvPers. The raiders will never run out of power, the PvPers will. I use 4-5 pieces of manawell gear on my templar when Im out PvPing and that still isnt enough to keep my power up. It helps certainly, but it only works for ME, and i still have to use power clickies. If a scout with mental breach running gets on me its game over.

Second option; Disable procs such as this in PvP combat. I know people worked hard for this kind of gear, but I have procs that don't work in PvE combat that I gained through PvP. Why should PvE procs such as this, especially ones this powerful, work in PvP?

Second item I wanted to bring up was Radiance, Censor of Protection.aITEM -1360806207 -1878440148:Radiance, Censer of Protection/a

This is the PvP symbol from the RoK PvP merchants. The stats are OK, and its got a nice amount of crit on it also. Mindtap II is nice for crusaders and priest who want to cast nukes. Thats fine. My concern is with the ward proc. Ignoring the fact that there are other ward procs obtained via raiding which trigger for more than double the amount and last more than 4 times as long, the ward proc on this item is very weak for most, and all but useless for anyone who relies on wards to heal (paladin/shamen). Basically it is too short a duration. For a shaman they will generally be using wards to heal, which means that they will already have several thousand points worth of wards on the person who this procs on. So to get any use out of this proc, the person it triggers on will need to take enough damage to colapse the ward within 5 seconds of it being cast. In my experience this very rarely happens.

What I would like to see is this. Increase the duration on this proc to atleast 20 seconds. Don't even have to increase the ward amount (although I wouldn't say no), just let the ward-proc stay active for long enough to be used.

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Old 10-11-2009, 05:40 AM   #2
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So its been almost a whole day and no one has called me a n00b yet. What gives? Did that many people quit?

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Old 10-11-2009, 07:05 AM   #3
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Noob.

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Old 10-11-2009, 08:28 AM   #4
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I lol'd

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Old 10-17-2009, 12:33 AM   #5
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Judging by the complete lack of responses, there's no one who objects to these ideas. Make it happen please!

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Old 10-17-2009, 12:57 AM   #6
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Or they thought it was so stupid that they thought it was a joke, I would go with what I said TBH

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Old 10-17-2009, 02:53 AM   #7
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Care to elaborate on which part you think is a joke and why?

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Old 10-17-2009, 07:32 AM   #8
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Is this a game show?  *Fixes hair*

Where are the Cameras?  Is Ashton gonna come out screaming "YOu got punked" ?   hehe bored and figured I would respond.

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Old 10-17-2009, 10:35 AM   #9
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Paikis wrote:

So its been almost a whole day and no one has called me a n00b yet. What gives? Did that many people quit?

I just don't think there is anyone left to care anymore personally ...

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Old 10-17-2009, 10:45 AM   #10
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Priest PvP Items are already more than powerful enough, They don't need more

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Old 10-18-2009, 03:29 AM   #11
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Paikis wrote:

Second option; Disable procs such as this in PvP combat. I know people worked hard for this kind of gear, but I have procs that don't work in PvE combat that I gained through PvP. Why should PvE procs such as this, especially ones this powerful, work in PvP?

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Priest PvP Items are already more than powerful enough, They don't need more

You what?

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Old 10-18-2009, 03:36 AM   #12
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 You cant get pvp items so I think your opinion may be biased.

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Old 10-18-2009, 03:38 AM   #13
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Only a little bit biased?

But thats not the point. The point is that any group with a healer who has that belt will NEVER run out of power. There is no PvP item with a similar proc, all I want is equality.

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Old 10-18-2009, 06:52 AM   #14
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I think we've all wanted equality for a long time. We [Removed for Content] and moaned until we got PvP gear changed and then he decided it was in the best interest to hand it out for free.

We asked to have the Qeynos revive change on the KP docks and lo and behold, it's finally fixed. Coincidentally, this no longer matters because everyone revives right at TG (LOL. I laugh, but it's actually sad.)

We begged for certain classes to be looked at for being too potent in PvP (read Crusaders) and we haven't heard a single word on anything about this class. However, we've seen Bane Warding nerfs and Dirge nerfs (necessary, though rushed a bit) yet nothing ever seems to be mentioned about classes that are blatantly and widely known as overpowered.

We asked for set bonuses to be reworked and looked at to be more useful for PvP, but what we got were cut and pasted raid sets with some stuff removed.

The point is, we've been asking for a lot of things but we never get them. Every time this game gets an update, it caters more to the casual player. There really isn't much place in this game for hardcore PvPers anymore. It actually REWARDS you for zerging. There are no penalties, only rewards. This is absurd.

Sadly, I'm to the point where I don't care anymore, and I'm the kind of guy that can sit around and discuss EQ2 PvP for hours. (I'm lame). The game is more or less in a downward spiral. There aren't even discussions going on about T9 PvP gear 4 months prior to the expansion when now would be the time to get the ideas flowing and work with the devs to get the kind of stuff we want. Not happening.

I still play this game because I'm an idiot, but really... it's losing it's luster. I was thrilled about the last major update, only to be sorely let down by incredibly poor decision making.

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Old 10-18-2009, 07:11 AM   #15
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[email protected] wrote:

I think we've all wanted equality for a long time. We [Removed for Content] and moaned until we got PvP gear changed and then he decided it was in the best interest to hand it out for free.

We asked to have the Qeynos revive change on the KP docks and lo and behold, it's finally fixed. Coincidentally, this no longer matters because everyone revives right at TG (LOL. I laugh, but it's actually sad.)

We begged for certain classes to be looked at for being too potent in PvP (read Crusaders) and we haven't heard a single word on anything about this class. However, we've seen Bane Warding nerfs and Dirge nerfs (necessary, though rushed a bit) yet nothing ever seems to be mentioned about classes that are blatantly and widely known as overpowered.

We asked for set bonuses to be reworked and looked at to be more useful for PvP, but what we got were cut and pasted raid sets with some stuff removed.

The point is, we've been asking for a lot of things but we never get them. Every time this game gets an update, it caters more to the casual player. There really isn't much place in this game for hardcore PvPers anymore. It actually REWARDS you for zerging. There are no penalties, only rewards. This is absurd.

Sadly, I'm to the point where I don't care anymore, and I'm the kind of guy that can sit around and discuss EQ2 PvP for hours. (I'm lame). The game is more or less in a downward spiral. There aren't even discussions going on about T9 PvP gear 4 months prior to the expansion when now would be the time to get the ideas flowing and work with the devs to get the kind of stuff we want. Not happening.

I still play this game because I'm an idiot, but really... it's losing it's luster. I was thrilled about the last major update, only to be sorely let down by incredibly poor decision making.

Know what'll make you feel better?

Going out to KP, and two shotting your favorite ranger! :D

Gawd I hated running across you before they made PvP gear free... x.x Now it might actually take 'half' your concealment chain to kill me! xD

<--- Kairie.

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Old 10-20-2009, 10:40 PM   #16
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I agree with that statement, bad enough wardens get power with their myth but with groups that have mages, (IE: wizzys,locks) MS would kind of last forever (being the 30 seconds).

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Old 10-20-2009, 11:06 PM   #17
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Paikis..

As you prolly know; Ima warden. I have (or it seem to be the idea amongst the friendly local pvper) that I have unlimited power.

I have the belt that you showed us. I also have soulshattering band and earring of the enlightened one..

And with a scout with mental breach on me, i run out of power aswell. Be realistic, items that give you power when youre damaged is way better for pvp than items that procs when you cast. Id take your belt over mine any day And together with your fear earring and shifting buckler.. Youre pretty set, no?

If you want to proc more power, go do VP. Get the soulshattering band. Its pretty amazing for pvp and it procs power to the group when you take damage..

Oh, as a sidenote.. You guys want it to be equal.. Where is my fear earring then? Because the basic feedback here is that if we want the pvp items, we need to go to a faction. So, if you want the raid pieces, you need to raid, no?

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Old 10-21-2009, 06:00 AM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

Paikis..

As you prolly know; Ima warden. I have (or it seem to be the idea amongst the friendly local pvper) that I have unlimited power.

I have the belt that you showed us. I also have soulshattering band and earring of the enlightened one..

And with a scout with mental breach on me, i run out of power aswell. Be realistic, items that give you power when youre damaged is way better for pvp than items that procs when you cast. Id take your belt over mine any day And together with your fear earring and shifting buckler.. Youre pretty set, no?

If you want to proc more power, go do VP. Get the soulshattering band. Its pretty amazing for pvp and it procs power to the group when you take damage..

Oh, as a sidenote.. You guys want it to be equal.. Where is my fear earring then? Because the basic feedback here is that if we want the pvp items, we need to go to a faction. So, if you want the raid pieces, you need to raid, no?

I find this very hard to believe. Fraps or parse plx.

Get a better tank. I'd gladly trade my runed mobius strip for your zarrakon belt. I have to use several pieces of manawell gear to equal that proc... and the manawell only gives ME power. The Zarrakon belt gives the entire group power.

Petition sent to the GMs. Hopefully you'll get your wish soon.

Except then we're back to having to raid to get gear in order to compete in PvP.

Rainbow is finished. And you can have PvP gear as far as I'm concerned.

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Old 10-21-2009, 06:32 AM   #19
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Stop trying to seperate pvp and pve gear. The game has been running fine for the last few years with pve gear being also our pvp gear. And while i appreciate the effort of the pvp dev to bring equal pvp gear for non pve-people we should not cross a certain line. You want serious power proc? Yes go back to veeshans peak and get the soul shattering band

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Old 10-21-2009, 11:51 AM   #20
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Hehehe ...NOOB!

Just kidding...Thats a nice belt and I agree with what you are saying!

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Old 10-21-2009, 12:18 PM   #21
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[email protected] wrote:

Paikis..

As you prolly know; Ima warden. I have (or it seem to be the idea amongst the friendly local pvper) that I have unlimited power.

I have the belt that you showed us. I also have soulshattering band and earring of the enlightened one..

And with a scout with mental breach on me, i run out of power aswell. Be realistic, items that give you power when youre damaged is way better for pvp than items that procs when you cast. Id take your belt over mine any day And together with your fear earring and shifting buckler.. Youre pretty set, no?

If you want to proc more power, go do VP. Get the soulshattering band. Its pretty amazing for pvp and it procs power to the group when you take damage..

Oh, as a sidenote.. You guys want it to be equal.. Where is my fear earring then? Because the basic feedback here is that if we want the pvp items, we need to go to a faction. So, if you want the raid pieces, you need to raid, no?

This is lawls....inferiority meet ignorance.

too mean

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Old 10-21-2009, 02:37 PM   #22
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I might have misunderstood something here Paikis, but get a better tank? Soulshattering Band procs when you get AEd aswell, and a lot of the damage you take in pvp is just that.. AEs. Not sure how a better tank can prevent that.

I understand that you dont wanna do anything PvE wise to get the same gear as we get by raiding, but I mean.. You DID do some PvE to get the manawell items aswell right? Even if its not raiding, its still PvE. Think its easier to think about it as you have more options to gear out your toon. Most mobs in VP you can kill with a group or 2 nowadays and you can go straight there instead of having to go through all the wings anymore.

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Old 10-21-2009, 08:30 PM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

I might have misunderstood something here Paikis, but get a better tank? Soulshattering Band procs when you get AEd aswell, and a lot of the damage you take in pvp is just that.. AEs. Not sure how a better tank can prevent that.

My normal tank is a guardian and he's very good at intercepting damage and keeping agro. Its rare that anyone stays on me for long enough to do very much. I cast alot more heals than I take hits. In an 11m35s fight last night (4v4) I got hit 233 times. I got 1811 healing 'hits' in that same amount of time. Manawell (i wore 3 items) regenerated 36 power/second. My Runed Mobius Strip managed a massive 3.74 power/second. You'll forgive me if I favour power procs that trigger when I heal someone over ones that trigger when I get hit. Zarracon's belt is only about 4 times more effective than manawell... and thats when solo. You can add another 4 time more effective for each group member, so in a full group, that belt will regenerate 24 times more power than a single piece of manawell gear.

[email protected] wrote:

I understand that you dont wanna do anything PvE wise to get the same gear as we get by raiding, but I mean.. You DID do some PvE to get the manawell items aswell right? Even if its not raiding, its still PvE. Think its easier to think about it as you have more options to gear out your toon. Most mobs in VP you can kill with a group or 2 nowadays and you can go straight there instead of having to go through all the wings anymore.

Yes, I did do some PvE to get the manawell items. I've never said I wasn't willing to PvE to get gear to PvP. My objection is to having PvE gear have such a huge impact on PvP. My PvP gear has procs which do nothing in PvE combat. My PvP gear has crit mit which does nothing in PvP combat. My PvP gear has focus effects on skills which have very little use in PvE combat.

Why is it that PvP gear can be 'tuned' to not effec PvE, but not the other way around?

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Old 10-22-2009, 07:40 AM   #24
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Paikis wrote:

Yes, I did do some PvE to get the manawell items. I've never said I wasn't willing to PvE to get gear to PvP. My objection is to having PvE gear have such a huge impact on PvP. My PvP gear has procs which do nothing in PvE combat. My PvP gear has crit mit which does nothing in PvP combat. My PvP gear has focus effects on skills which have very little use in PvE combat.

Why is it that PvP gear can be 'tuned' to not effec PvE, but not the other way around?

You're never going to get away from that, unfortunately. In an MMO, gear progression is paramount. And in an MMO where the PvP population is an extremely small percentile of the total playerbase, you'll never get all the PvE/PvP items balanced to where we'd like them to be.

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Old 10-22-2009, 04:03 PM   #25
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Trying to figure out what you're complaining about Pai, We hit you with ice comet fusion and dev fist within 15 secs the other day in Nek at the horseman and your health never went below 99%. And if I remember correctly, your power didn't budge either.

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Old 10-22-2009, 07:49 PM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

Trying to figure out what you're complaining about Pai, We hit you with ice comet fusion and dev fist within 15 secs the other day in Nek at the horseman and your health never went below 99%. And if I remember correctly, your power didn't budge either.

Smiiles? Fallen? Hotmess? Sorry, just trying to work out who this is. I'm assuming you were in that group.

A few things: Firstly, my health did drop below 99%... alot. I generally wont target myself for heals unless im below 75% as my group reactive and group heal are usually enough to keep me topped up. It's possible that I had repent on myself when your fussion landed, but other than that (or a resist, only 3/5 landed on me), nothing I used in that fight would have stopped fusion from hitting me very hard. As for Dev fist... meh, its a physical attack (I have almost-tank mit and lots of avoidance) so it could have been mitigated to the point where my reactives healed for more, or it could have missed, or it could have been intercepted by Lump.

As for my power, I regenerated 50.48pts of power every second, but most of that was other people in my group (myth coercer, wiz and lock) power feeding me, not to mention channel was used 2 or 3 times. I do know (ACT) that I went through my power bar 9 times in 11 minutes so without the coercer, warlock and wizard power feeding me through the entire fight, I would have ran out of power after only a minute or two. If you'd had a scout with mental breach I would have been drained dry of all my power in under 40 seconds.

That however, is not what this thread is about. This thread is about RAID gear still proccing at full effectiveness in PvP, when my PvP gear is reduced in PvP and often doesn't work at all in PvE. My 'uber' PvP power regen proc (Runed Mobius Strip) triggered a massive 13 times for a total of 2600 power in an 11m35s fight. Clearly its broken, I mean it almost regenerated as much power as my manastone did. Unfortunately for Kaily (and me!) the GMs said no to me swapping my Runed Mobius Strip for her Zarrakon's belt, so we wont be able to do that SMILEY.

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:01 PM   #27
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FFS! I really looked forward to a new shiny belt in my inventory when I logged on SMILEY

Ill trade you Earring of the Enlightened One for your Fear earring too, then I should be set and you should be having a lot of power! SMILEY

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:09 PM   #28
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[email protected] wrote:

FFS! I really looked forward to a new shiny belt in my inventory when I logged on

Ill trade you Earring of the Enlightened One for your Fear earring too, then I should be set and you should be having a lot of power!

Actually my Runed Mobius Strip is adorned with 3% parry, I use it as a wrist. I'll try the petition again. Worth a shot.

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:12 PM   #29
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I dont think itll happen tho, since I cant be wearing your shiny stuffs here in Haven /shrug

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:28 PM   #30
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LOL @ you noobs who think gear like that is OP clear some current raid content and you will find out  how fast you need much more than that to kill some named

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