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Old 02-01-2006, 07:02 AM   #1
JackBurtonBTLC

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I hear rangers are THE best DPS type that is non caster.true?
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:33 AM   #2
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rangers are the best dps period atm, including casters
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:20 AM   #3
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Yes it is true. DPS role SHOULD be Wizard, Warlock/Assassin, Ranger but SOE f'd up again and made it Ranger, Conjuror/Necro, Assassin, Wizard,  Warlock. I was grp'd with a Ranger and in one shot took a ^^^ mob to half health. Totally unbalanced. When people think of fantasy games and want to be absolute killers they chose a mage class for a reason. DPS. When was the last movie/game you seen where a bow and arrow killed a mob into oblivion vs. a mage's spells... Didn't think so. Not saying that sorceror's are not a wanted class just saying they should be top of the dps list followed by ranger/assassin, conj/necro. Either way I am having fun being a warlock though. SMILEY
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:42 AM   #4
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Ya, caster or not caster ranger will be at # 1 spot of any parser (assuming they know what they are doing) even if it's an AE fight they still up at top :0)
 
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:53 AM   #5
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yodamite wrote:
Yes it is true. DPS role SHOULD be Wizard, Warlock/Assassin, Ranger but SOE f'd up again and made it Ranger, Conjuror/Necro, Assassin, Wizard,  Warlock. I was grp'd with a Ranger and in one shot took a ^^^ mob to half health. Totally unbalanced. When people think of fantasy games and want to be absolute killers they chose a mage class for a reason. DPS. When was the last movie/game you seen where a bow and arrow killed a mob into oblivion vs. a mage's spells... Didn't think so. Not saying that sorceror's are not a wanted class just saying they should be top of the dps list followed by ranger/assassin, conj/necro. Either way I am having fun being a warlock though. SMILEY

Using this ranking I agree that Conj/Necro should not be at the top of DPS because of the Utility they offer......but condsidering the fact that Rangers offer absolutely ZERO group utility outside of what every scout offers (Evac, Pathfinding) why does it shock that sony offerred the top DPS slot to Rangers? 

Do you pay for your DPS?  Does it cost you coin everytime you cast a spell?  It does for us.  And I'm not talking about spell upgrades, for me to maintain that DPS I spend about 20g a day in poisons and arrows.  If I choose not to buy those, I would still do somewhat respectable damage.  But, Wizzy's and Warlocks would own us.

So while I can empathize with how you feel, because you want your class to be the best.  The fact that you bring much more the  just damage to the group in buffs and debuffs, understand that unless we buy the posions, we really don't have very much use to a group outside of annihilating everything.

 

Also the difference ins't that great in a long fight/raid between a Ranger and a Warlock.  Given time your DoT's do massive damage.....its just that we do all our damage in the first 45 seconds....yours is more gradual.

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Old 02-01-2006, 09:57 AM   #6
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When was the last movie/game you seen where a bow and arrow killed a mob into oblivion vs. a mage's spells... Didn't think so. Not saying that sorceror's are not a wanted class just saying they should be top of the dps list followed by ranger/assassin, conj/necro. Either way I am having fun being a warlock though.

 

Umm... Lord of the Rings Movies, Legolas killed about 20,000 orcs/goblins/whatever with a bow, while Gandalf, the uber wizard caster mage type person thingy killed, what? 0? Nada? Zilch? OH, he got drug into an abyss by a Balrog, but did we see him kill it? No.....

 

Sorry, saw the opening, had to pounce, big fan of wizards and nukers, understand the frustration, just had to pounce on that specific comment.

 

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Old 02-01-2006, 10:29 AM   #7
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Interesting comment was made about rangers spending 20 gold a day for poisons and arrows.Does this mean you don't do your best DPS unless you buy these things?What if I play a ranger and I don't want to buy poisons and arrows and I just want to dual weld. Will this reduce my DPS in a way that makes a ranger not worth playing compared to  some other DPS classes?Thanks for the clarification on the money spending in advance!

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Old 02-01-2006, 10:40 AM   #8
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if thats what you want, go play an assassin or a rogue. you'll hate being a ranger
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Old 02-01-2006, 02:10 PM   #9
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Question was, what if I want to make a melee only ranger . . . how much difference is there?At lvl 56, I have 2 strait dmg melee, 2 dot melee, 3 flanking 2 of which require stealth melee. Thats 7 Melee attacks, with normal melee hits being around 40-70 average.Now look at ranged . . .1 stealth AE, 1 mobile ae, 1 stealth long range, 1 triple shot, 1 double shot, 1 snaring shot, 1 flanking, 1 dmg/debuff, 1 Taunt assistance, 1 rooted constant fire,Thats 10 total ranged attacks plus ranged auto attack average dmg of 200-400ish.Now at 56, I parse out an average of 500-700dps on group encounters, this is compared to melee parsing out at roughly 150-200ish dps. HUGE difference. Making a ranger who melee's only is one way ticket to never getting a group once folks ahve grouped with you once. Also you cut your abilities in more then half, leaving you completely useless on raids as all fighters even can out dps you by 100+.Now, where magic uses are comparable. Mages of all types rate right up there with rangers. Why? Utility. Simple fact, rangers offer nothing but dps, they are the only 98% true dps class. I say 98% because rangers do have one debuff for defense whole 30 points, and they have traps. Traps can play a nice roll for dealing with unmezable adds on raids or just problematic roamers. But thats all they offer. Now you look at other classes. All mages can buff resistance, debuff resistances, and deal good dps at the same time. Most also bring with them, special bonus proc spells, or other buffs for other members of the group or raid. This all adds into your whole, and isn't to be seperated. Why do Wizards and warlocks on average not out dps rangers? Actualy they do. They offer DPS by means of procs, buffs, debuffs, this is DPS in the sense its adding to the total dmg of the group by either adding more to others or making things hit easier or harder on mobs they debuff. Now you weigh all that and tell me Rangers don't deserve some claim to fame here?Whats a ranger with dps lower then assassins? WorthlessRanger with dps lower then most casters? WorthlessNot actually worthless in the true sense, but then again why take a ranger minus friends along for raids if any other joe shmoe caster or scout could dps better and still offer awesome Utility?Atm its cause Rangers hands down, mana agro better, and dish out more bang for the buck then anyone else. This isn't easy to weigh either. Open up the wrong skills at wrong time and draw agro, we are just marginaly able to live longer then casters on raids. Infact good rangers still out DPS most casters, and can wait till last 40% of the mobs hp to do it, to maximize agro management and offer awesome dps. Also who still has the highest dmg hits in game? Single shot is wizard with assassins and rangers standing right behind them. And besides, most parsing runs people do are group or raids, which have lows and highs bouncing all around, cause mobs live either a very long time or very very short. And with game mechanics, and playability, its not even viable info to parse same mob kills in solo fashion, cause all classes paly out so much different.  So do go off thinking DPS is a dmg only thing, its not. DPS is gained from many sides, with Utility being a big part of it.
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:20 PM   #10
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"Yes it is true. DPS role SHOULD be Wizard, Warlock/Assassin, Ranger but SOE f'd up again and made it Ranger, Conjuror/Necro, Assassin, Wizard,  Warlock. I was grp'd with a Ranger and in one shot took a ^^^ mob to half health. Totally unbalanced. When people think of fantasy games and want to be absolute killers they chose a mage class for a reason. DPS. When was the last movie/game you seen where a bow and arrow killed a mob into oblivion vs. a mage's spells... Didn't think so. Not saying that sorceror's are not a wanted class just saying they should be top of the dps list followed by ranger/assassin, conj/necro. Either way I am having fun being a warlock though.

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Umm...Lord of the Rings.  Legolas single handedly killed an oliphont.

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Old 02-01-2006, 08:28 PM   #11
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Imo we should ALWAYS be better DPS than any of the casters. Why? Well, they simply have much more utility than us + of course the fact we pay for ous DPS, which im sure most mages would also happily do (so thats not maybe a that good reason)

But the only utility we have is our DPS, even our stuns come in a form of poisons. Mages have SPELLS which give em roots/stuns/stifles, and they contribute to the group in many other ways than just straight DPS. So, please, dont just look at the pure DPS parses.

++Xan

ps. And besides, after LU19 i think many ppl will be happy to see that our dmg is reduced quite a lot because i fear that the new poisons are nowhere near comparable to the current legendary ones. Lets hope im not right thou SMILEY 

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Old 02-01-2006, 08:34 PM   #12
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I dont know about the rest of the rangers, but I am sick to death of having to explain/justify/defend our class dps to everyone that is not a ranger. 

We do amazing dps. Yes. That is our only role.  We have no value to a group beyond tearing through mobs fast and getting everyone the hell out when it gets hairy.  Before LU 13, in all honesty, we were gimped.  The rangers that played then, played because we loved the role, because ranger is just who we are. 

Where was the law written that top dps had to be a caster?  Just because in another game somewhere, or a movie somewhere, or some D&D creator somewhere decided that in their game, casters would be top dps, does not mean that that is how it must be in every MMO from here to eternity.  In this game, rangers are up there and thats just how it is.  You should play a class because thats who you are and what you enjoy, just like most of us old-school rangers do.  We didnt make the game, we only play it.  If your not happy with your dps, take it to your own boards and ask for more.  Dont come here and whine to us.  We've heard enough of it over the past few months, and we've had our fill.

/rant off

To the original poster... yes, rangers I think are the highest dps, but you have to know how to play your class.  Use poisions ( can range from a few silver to 10g depending on market, level, and if its legendary or not ) and be sure to read your spells, see what they do, and use them to their fullest advantage.  Be aware, that the higher in levels you get, the more you will become a ranged fighter.  If your looking for something that dual wields primarily, that is up close in the thick of the fight, you wont be happy with Ranger.  A ranger that doesnt range attack is pointless.  Might as well change now to an Assassin, Swasy or Brigand.

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Old 02-01-2006, 08:43 PM   #13
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I read the LOTR series when I was younger, so when I rolled my first character in an MMORPG it was a ranger.  In the books, as far I was concerned Legolas was the single most badass character, he was an elven blender.  Even Drizzt in the Salvatore books dropped groups of orcs, goblins and giants by himself and he was more of a pure melee character.  The last time I read a fantasy novel, most casters got exhausted after casting one spell and need time to rest, only the most powerful ones could cast mutiple badass spells in one fight.  When you see archers in these books they just sit back and pump arrow after arrow after arrow with almost no delay. 

And saying that SoE got it wrong is a ridiculous statement.  Last time I checked most fantasy MMORPG games have archers as the higher or one of the highest dps classes.  Play DaoC for a bit, I guess they had it wrong too.  Go [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] somewhere else.  I'm done with my rant.

On the other note about making a melee only ranger that doesn't use poisons or potions...whats the point?  Just make a bruiser or a monk you'll be much happier and much richer.  Most of us rangers are in the poor house cause we spend so much $$ on poisons.  I'm lvl 44 and I have yet to approach having enough money to buy a horse and I still live in my little barren apt in Willow Wood.  I have one role and one role only, and thats DPS.  Without poisons, potions and my bow I'd be almost useless in a group.  Who would want to group with a ranger that just melee'd, I know I'd rather have any other DPS class over the melee ranger.

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Old 02-01-2006, 08:56 PM   #14
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JackBurtonBTLC wrote:
What if I play a ranger and I don't want to buy poisons and arrows and I just want to dual weld. Will this reduce my DPS in a way that makes a ranger not worth playing compared to  some other DPS classes?

Lol .. most of the melee CA's aren't even worth the mana, the only one that does noticeable damage is the stealth attack, the frontal CA's are really not much better then pure auto-attack damage :smileysad:

However, you don't need to buy arrows since arrow quality don't impact CA damage, also in most cases you do fine with just using a good non legandary damage poison if you want to save money .. but you will significantly lose damage without at least a damage poison.

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Old 02-01-2006, 09:00 PM   #15
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Rangers are awesome dps and yes we have to pay for it.  If you don't want to deal with arrows and buying poisons (usually 2-3 types being used at a time to pull the max dps) then you don't want to be a ranger OR an assassin as they deal with poisons as well.  If you want to dual wield and be a melee character go Swashbuckler or Brigand.  Both of those CAN use poisons but I don't think it's as absolutely necessary for them as it is for a predator.  If you don't want to deal with poisons at all and want dual wield your options are fighter or bard.  None of which are dps classes.

EQ2 DPS is funky.  Rangers are top, with nothing else to bring to groups but DPS and a lot of that through the poisons we buy.  The rest of the DPS classes have other utility they bring to groups and raids.  It's been explained time and time again but rangers are ONLY DPS.  Our debuff poisons add a very very small amount of utility to us. 

For your needs/wants, your probably best suited for a swashy, brigand or assassin.  Don't see you enjoying playing a Ranger though.

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Old 02-01-2006, 09:11 PM   #16
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I tried resisting to reply, but I finally have broken down. Not sure if any of you are familar with my huge rant/goodbye/whatever thread I wrote in the EQlive Ranger Defination forums. It was 6 pages, single space, in microsoft word. Anyways, it was my expierences as a ranger, good and bad, and what I would like to see happen to the class. *shrug* It wasn't "do it now or I'll quit!", it was merely some outloud thoughts I had and wishing the ranger community in EQlive good-bye.Anyways, the roles of the EQlive and EQII ranger are very different but have many of the same threads that connect them. One being, best ranged in the game (though if you read my post, there is a part on where EQlive rogues will out-range-DPS rangers, I really hate that!). Second, utility. EQlive rangers WERE utility, to the max! Though they never excelled in anyhting, they were a spread which was great if people knew how to play the class and also use them in raids. Having the ability to snare, root, heal, cure, de-aggro, lull, nuke, dot, SoW, melee, tank, range, attack buffsk, and good ole' track. I don't think a lot of people gave them credit in those fields because they weren't the best so it never stuck out.In EQII we still have some of those abilities, to a point. We can snare, root (thanks trap!), de-aggro, have very good DPS in melee and range, we can tank, debuff, pathfinding, oh and my favorite; track! If still have some utility and can be put into different situations. If we have a mob in our face, we just take out our blades, go defensive, and attack. Mages who try this will probably die quicker (not always! ho ho..).All in all, I left EQlive because I had a lot of real life issues I had to attention to. I mean, lieing to your friends and family to go raid or just even grind to get a few more AAs that you could careless about (when you hit 1000 does it really matter?). But I also looked at the fact if I could straighten that out, would I enjoy it? I decided I would not, because despite how the ranger class finally had changes coming (since the re-invision process, which happened in March and has yet to make a huge impact. Hell EQII had a huge change and EQlive was prophosing on how great theirs would be), I did not enjoy it. I wanted to use archery more, but EQlive wasn't built on that. It was the fact the bows in Luclin and in PoP (those EP bows the most, since they were crafted and not dropped) screwed the ranger class. People thought we were archers, and we were for a while. Until we got good 1:1 ratio weapons and had the melee AAs, we were archers. So from level 1 to 59 and having 45 AAs, you would be in melee. Then you would be using the bow until you could get those melee AAs and weapons. Now the game has changed a bit and 1:1 weapons are a bit more common and you don't need all those melee abilities to out-DPS your bow. Er.. anyways... I just wanted archery to be fixxed so it was a backup way of dealing damage. It wasn't even at 50% of what rangers were doing in combat! Rogues, for a minute would be throwing daggers and out DPSing rangers with their bows and trueshot on. It was horrible...Anyways, I just wanted to say that I am really thankful rangers still have some utility because in novels, epics, lore, whatever, they are skilled in many ways. We should be thankful we have what we have and it making such a nice impact on combat and the game AND we are still able to do some great damage SMILEY
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:52 PM   #17
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We do have to buy slashing arrows by the way.  True most of my arrows are the Makeshift ones and the slashers are usually the cheap vendor ones.  I do have a woodworker but frankly, even making them for myself, it is not worth the hassle to tradeskill them.  Our real expense is poisons.  Try to go on a raid without legendry and watch your DPS suffer.
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Old 02-02-2006, 03:43 AM   #18
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nimbus2kgold wrote:

I dont know about the rest of the rangers, but I am sick to death of having to explain/justify/defend our class dps to everyone that is not a ranger. 


I'm sick of the trolling myself.  I don't mind reading it in forums NOT dedicated to Rangers but get dang tired of reading it here.

What really bugs me is the paradigm these people are stuck in.  Just because these self-appointed subject matter experts saw a movie or played another RPG, they seem to think they have the authority to demand that the developers make this game just like the one they played before.  Or, to tell the rest of us how it should be played.

I play high end Rangers in EQ and EQ2, and from my experience, the class is very different between the two games... made by the same company no less.  I've also played several other RPGs and have yet to find that the same class of character was duplicated in any two games.  And I'm old.  I've been a gamer since the release of pong.

If people want to be a mage, then they should be a mage, if they want to be a tank then be a tank, if they want to be a Ranger then be a Ranger.  But if all they want to be is a DPS machine, then why the heck are they playing a role playing game in  the first place.  Duke Nukem is a awesome DPS machine and doesn't require interaction with other players.  Hint hint.

This is just what we need... Another thread dedicated to the whining trolls who come here to tell us we have too much DPS.

Edit:  Yes it can get expensive.  I spent a plat last night on poisons.  When I see them for a good price, I buy a lot.  This should hold me until my wife gets her alchemist up to T6.  She's been slacking lately.

Message Edited by Gareorn on 02-01-200602:49 PM

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Old 02-02-2006, 04:11 AM   #19
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Hi yeah, First of all, does any of the other non-ranger that post here even remotely nderstand the writen english language? DO you even read? I know you can, cause ya type words here and have to be able to sort them in half way readable sense for us to read. So pull your heads up out your butts and read for a change . . .Now then, YOur probably [Removed for Content] off and about to rant . . thats good, maybe you've started to read this.To the Point . . . Ok, range pops 3up mob for half its HP . . Yep can happen, once in every few mins, uncommon to see? Nope not at all. They only ones who do this? NO!!, Wizards do this also, hello look at this, Ice Comet. Yep can pop alot of mobs for half their HP. Ok, and a Warlock saying he's mad rangers out dmg them? Hello, warlock are the one class rangers have to really work at to out DPS, and only do this in situational instances. Do you know what Situational means? Heck I'd wager to guess you didn't or else you'd understand rangers deal dmg differently then casters. COmparing the two is like saying a Mustange can get from point A to point B faster then a VW Bug. Yep but both get there! Rangers are Pure DPS, offering 0 utility to groups when grouped, cause for one, all other classes can out Utility a rangers wimpy 30defense debuff skill and the snare which our snare unlike those of conj and some casters break with dmg and slow movement for a lesser amount. Plus comparing a Warlocks DPS style to a rangers? Why? Warlocks deal massive dots, which take time. Rangers don't focus on dots but raw fast dmg. If we wait for a dot to deal dmg we Die.Basicly, and forgive me for putting it this way . . Unless you have half a brain and atleast do some research, you have no place saying anything about another class . . Heck I wanna see casters get nerfed now, just cause yall whine to much with all your bonuses we just wish we brought to the party, instead of just dps. But I don't really want to see anyone get Nerf'd In fact I think its just to say some need some improvement still but, over all its pretty much leveled out atm. Raids do well with all the classes doing their part when people listen and do their jobs. Each class has their abilities and honestly If its not what you hoped, then maybe you need to roll up a alt and try somethng new or move on to a new game. Because seeing constant crap about blah blah is to powerful, is stupid.BTW, if you want to attack someone for being overpowered, target out your friendly Brawlers. Healing 1300hp in self heals, dishing out near and sometimes more dps then casters, and able to tank the mobs toe to toe? Hell I wonder why you worry with us? We make your life easier cause we are next on the hate list half the time if a tank goes down. But No, yall seem to always have morons trolling other classes forums, and stiring up worthless, non-thought out crap.Get a [Removed for Content] clue, and research your point, if ya can make a valid case, then so be it, but saying some crap about blah blah blah killed this in 20 second when takes me 45, is stupid.
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Old 02-02-2006, 05:07 AM   #20
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Legolas was not a ranger.
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Old 02-02-2006, 11:31 AM   #21
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Yeah Legolas was i believe was just a Elite Elven Warrior, but all elves if you follow the culture are first trianed with the bow, then the swords. Aragon *Stryder* was a Ranger, which was a human title given by other humans which basicly ment Woodsman, or Brother of the Forest in Elvish. Also rangers of most cultures were highly trained hunters or trackers, skilled in melee combat with 1 to 2 weapons and very skilled archers. Which if you look at EQ2 rangers and compare them, its not far off. Lighter armor, more agility or ability to evade blows, so so melee and highly trained archery.Sorta neat if you look back and survey actual rangers, cause when you size them up to EQ2 ones, its not far off. Unless you view D&D rangers. They were more fighter or tank types, with still lighter armor but much better avoidance and some druidic abilities, such as summoning animal guardians.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:42 PM   #22
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Like the others have said before me, yes rangers are the best dps in the game right now, but only after say level 25 or so.  I don't know how it will be after LU19 tomorrow, because of the changes, but rangers don't get very good ranged CA's until you hit the 20's in the current system.  Now I have a 60 ranger, and he does massive damage quickly, but you have to manage your agro at the same time.  If a ranger jumps out with sniper shot for the first attack and takes a ^^^ mob half way down, he is gonna get agro.  I can pull agro from the MT anytime I want really, even with a good MT.  Thats not bragging at all, thats actually a problem that has to be managed.  You do have to buy poisons, because you won't be fully exploiting your potential without them.  I spend soo much on poisons its not even funny at times, and that would probably depend on which server you are on.  I typically spend about 2 to 3 plat on poisons buying in bulk, and that lasts me about three to four weeks.  I also buy specialty arrows for raids and such for different damage types, (slashing and such versus straight piercing).  Rangers probably spend more for their dps than any other class by a large margin.  However, in raids and such, I have never been told to leave or not invited because I do more damage than a wizard/warlock either.  You will see these people complain, but in battle, when it counts, they want our dps there.  In short fights in raids or groups, I will only be out dps'ed by other rangers, but in long battles like on epic mobs and such, it is common to see our dps drop over the long haul.  I have been out dps'ed by wizards/warlocks/conjurers on several occasions during long battles with mobs that seem to have endless HP's....

I would give the ranger a chance, and if you make it into the 30's you will not be dissapointed imo.  But don't play a ranger if you only want to melee and mix it up in front of the mob.  If you want to melee, take the others advice and play a swashie or bard or something.  Rangers take some dedication and getting used to, and some frustration at the lower levels imo.  I am always trying to help fellow low level rangers in and out of my guild, because nothing give me more pleasure than to see a true killer blooming....

Message Edited by Dagator on 02-01-200611:45 PM

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Old 02-02-2006, 05:24 PM   #23
Dojoc

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with the right group and the perfect setup, yes Ranger are #1 DPS class atm, conji #2, Warlocks #3bump
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:11 PM   #24
Racmo

 
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"Legolas was not a ranger."

 

Here's the quote we were addressing I believe.

"When was the last movie/game you seen where a bow and arrow killed a mob into oblivion vs. a mage's spells... Didn't think so"

 

Message Edited by Racmoor on 02-02-200606:18 AM

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Old 02-02-2006, 09:26 PM   #25
Vinter

 
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No, Legolas was actually an uber Elf Wizard, he just uses a bow because it has better dps.

 

Seriously though why does it even bother people? I played a ranger in EQ1 and i play a ranger here, thats about it. I have no intention of making a "Oh my gaaawd Rangers have no utility must nerf mages..." post.

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Old 02-02-2006, 09:41 PM   #26
Tobann

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Even though we have good DPS over the total fight there is not one ranger in the top 50 with the highest hit either melee or magic. That honor bleongs to our brother assasin scouts.I wish I know how they did it.Buaf
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Old 02-02-2006, 10:28 PM   #27
Hyyd

 
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Tobann wrote:Even though we have good DPS over the total fight there is not one ranger in the top 50 with the highest hit either melee or magic. That honor bleongs to our brother assasin scouts.I wish I know how they did it.Buaf

those ranking are all bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sir for melee that is,i thaught they where suppose to be redoing those and taking out the duel ones and bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hitting grey mobs ones, and so on

 magical, most the hits are prolly by guardian and MT type that had spellshield casted on them

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