EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > Class Discussion > Mage's Arcanum > Wizard
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-22-2005, 01:56 AM   #1
sundanc

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4
Default

Alright, so  me and my friend decided to start new alts, him a warlock and me a wizard. Things were going great our dps was great we were chaining HO's like crazy. The all of a sudden when we hit level 23 we saw a huge difference in the power of our level 23 nukes. We are both level 23 right now and both have the adept 3 of our lvl 23 nuke. Mine: Ball of Fire: Power: 85 Casting Time: 3.0 seconds Recovery Time: 0.5 seconds Recast Time: 12.0 seconds Class Wizard(23)  Mastery Disruption(165) Effects: Inflicts 296-443 damage on target His: Dark Distortion Power: 85 Casting Time: 2.0 seconds Recovery Time: 0.5 seconds Recast Time: 8.0 seconds Class Warlock(23) Mastery Discruption(165) Effects Inflicts 390-585 damage on target and returns 33 power to the caster (not exact wording) Now is it just me or do these spells seem redicilously unbalanced? I guess my question is, does this trend of Warlock nukes being far better then Wizard nukes continue, or do i get more nukes to balance it out? Does it ever balance out? If not SOE really needs to address this.
sundanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 02:17 AM   #2
adamflanagan

Loremaster
adamflanagan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 476
Default

is it really necessary to start another one of these threads??
adamflanagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 02:24 AM   #3
Ashare

General
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 29
Default

In the order, responses to your questions : yes, they are ridiculously unbalanced. yes this trend continue for long, and no they are never balanced out. No it never balances out. And yes, SoE should do something,  but nothing will be done until combat changes, and we don't know what to expect. Look at the threads in here and warlock forums, half to 75% of the threads on the first two pages are about this. SMILEY
Ashare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 03:34 AM   #4
Asterra

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 158
Default

Actually, Warlocks are pretty satisfied with their lot, as one might imagine.  Their forums trend towards "healthy" discussions such as what spells to upgrade, how to solo, etc.  It's really only the Wizard forums that suffer from a blatant misproportion of posts complaining about the class.
Asterra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 04:38 AM   #5
Tar~Palantir

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 328
Default

Have another example...

Ball of Flames...lvl 37 Adept III (fresh at lvl 37 with 185 disruption/elemental amstery)

dmg 500-750

 

Nil Distortion...lvl 37 apprentice 1 (fresh at lvl 37 with 185 disruption/noctivagence skill)

750-1000 dmg, yes at APPRENTICE ONE IT OUT DPS'S OUR NUKE AT ADEPT THREE

did I mention power replenishment for this spell

 

 

__________________
Echoes of Fadywer: Finally an expansion that doesn't create a rat race for max level.
Tar~Palantir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 06:18 PM   #6
OneBadAli

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 159
Default

It gets even worse as you gain levels.

Wait till you get to 50 and get the infamous ice comet that lands for 3656 at adept 3 on a single target, yet 9 out of every 10 raid mobs are immune to cold. Then to top it off warlocks get devastation at level 50 that can do +12,000 damage at adept 3 and is resisted by basically no raid mobs...

How bout them apples?

OneBadAli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 06:21 PM   #7
Dae

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 330
Default

I thought Ball of Flames was your equivalent of Noxious Bolt and Immolation was your equivalent of Nil Distortion. I probably got the spell name wrong but there's some very short duration DoT with equivalent damage to ND. Either that or I'm horribly misinformed. You also neglect to mention cast times in your comparison. Aaaanyway... But of course we don't need another of these threads. It'll be interesting to see what happens if the damned update ever goes live.
__________________

Wormwood Hex - Ratonga! - [Warlock (50) / Tailor (50)]
Ponk Fury - Ratonga! - [Berserker (not 50)]
D Khar - Splitpaw Server
Dae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 06:54 PM   #8
SalBlu

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 439
Default

Wait till you get to 50 and get the infamous ice comet that lands for 3656 at adept 3 on a single target, yet 9 out of every 10 raid mobs are immune to cold. Then to top it off warlocks get devastation at level 50 that can do +12,000 damage at adept 3 and is resisted by basically no raid mobs...

It doesnt hit for 12,000.  It hits for about 2,500 if I remember right.  The only time it ever does more is if it hits multiple mobs.  With the way my guild runs its raids, we very rarely use AOE because of the Coercers and Illusionists we have that mezz all adds for later cleanup. 

Devastation is very situational, whereas Ice Comet is a direct threat... albeit a direct threat that is resisted/immuned far too often.

SalBlu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 07:16 PM   #9
Dae

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 330
Default

Devastation Adept 3 does about 1.8-2k on a non-debuffed mob (pretty much if you're using it as an AE) and 2.5-3k on a debuffed mob if you're very lucky. There's seems to be something funny with the number of ticks you get out of it too. I had it tick for a 5th time once on a single mob but I've not noticed it do that again. This is all assuming you survive the resulting aggro SMILEY.
__________________

Wormwood Hex - Ratonga! - [Warlock (50) / Tailor (50)]
Ponk Fury - Ratonga! - [Berserker (not 50)]
D Khar - Splitpaw Server
Dae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 07:53 PM   #10
Cecil_Stri

General
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 312
Default

These threads are kinda pointless... They aren't gonna do anything till the combat revamp and when they do wizards and warlocks should be closer.. or wizards may even be better then warlocks then.  who knows.
 
If wizards do land on the up side then expect to see these threads clouding the warlocks boards as well
Cecil_Stri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 08:40 PM   #11
anshar

Loremaster
anshar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 81
Default

Personally, I do not care which sub-class is better. I, for one, will not complain if Wizards come out on top. If they nerf my class to be virtually non-playable, I will be a bit upset.

Once again, I would like to try to impress upon people. It is not important to compare sub-classes. It is important to fix problems. Please try to keep this is mind. Every time you say 'Nerf the Warlocks', you are shortchanging yourself. Instead, say with me 'FIX the WIZARDS' Ask yourself the question: Which would most likely show an increase in overall ability?

 

anshar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 09:16 PM   #12
SalBlu

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 439
Default

Yep.  That's how I stand Anshar.  I'll enjoy playing my character any way you give her to me.  I dont want to see Warlocks get nerfed back though.  It will be the same problems all over again, just on the Warlock side.
SalBlu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 09:26 PM   #13
Grimbard

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
Default

I completely agree.  Wizards need to be fixed.  Warlocks do NOT need to be nerfed.

Fix Protoflame, some of my mana costs and some raid resists and my wizard is good to go.

Grimbard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 11:15 PM   #14
Tar~Palantir

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 328
Default


 

Message Edited by Tar~Palantir on 07-22-2005 12:16 PM

__________________
Echoes of Fadywer: Finally an expansion that doesn't create a rat race for max level.
Tar~Palantir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2005, 11:16 PM   #15
Tar~Palantir

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 328
Default



Daerv wrote:
I thought Ball of Flames was your equivalent of Noxious Bolt and Immolation was your equivalent of Nil Distortion. I probably got the spell name wrong but there's some very short duration DoT with equivalent damage to ND. Either that or I'm horribly misinformed. You also neglect to mention cast times in your comparison. Aaaanyway...

But of course we don't need another of these threads. It'll be interesting to see what happens if the damned update ever goes live.



Noxious bolt comes at 30 and we have no equivalent to it. 
 
Nil Distortion and Ball of Flames both come at level 37 and both are large damage dealers using the Direct Damage style. 
 
One is just obscenely more powerful.
 
Wizards do need to be brough up higher, lots to amtch warlocks, or SOE's preferred method...nerfing warlocks.
__________________
Echoes of Fadywer: Finally an expansion that doesn't create a rat race for max level.
Tar~Palantir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 12:59 AM   #16
OneBadAli

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 159
Default



SalBluee wrote:

Wait till you get to 50 and get the infamous ice comet that lands for 3656 at adept 3 on a single target, yet 9 out of every 10 raid mobs are immune to cold. Then to top it off warlocks get devastation at level 50 that can do +12,000 damage at adept 3 and is resisted by basically no raid mobs...

It doesnt hit for 12,000.  It hits for about 2,500 if I remember right.  The only time it ever does more is if it hits multiple mobs.  With the way my guild runs its raids, we very rarely use AOE because of the Coercers and Illusionists we have that mezz all adds for later cleanup. 

Devastation is very situational, whereas Ice Comet is a direct threat... albeit a direct threat that is resisted/immuned far too often.




It does hit for 12,000 and i dont know who your raid leader is, but we use aoe on almost every single raid mob in the game, and have no problems. It can hit up to 5 targets in the group. Lets face it devastation wasnt meant to be cast on a solo mob, its meant to be cast on multiple targets, it hits for about 2500 average per mob, thats 12,500. So quit saying that it only hits for 2500, thats one single target, thats completely ignorant to say.

Trust me, warlocks use this continually in about every raid scenario, except yours where you mez every single mob. Once you get effective at dps you wont need to mez, just get 4 warlocks and chain cast devastation (and yes about every tank i've ever raided with can and will hold the  aggro) then the dps parsers pop up and warlocks are gettin 400 to 600 dps average, wizards 100-150.

So back to the topic, devastation does hit for 12,500 (2500x5 targets, can max at up to 15,000 at adept 3). Its primary use is in raids to take down groups of mobs(even on a single mob it does close to the damage ice comet can do, thats just totally sad). Ice comet is useless in all but just a handfull of zones and can only do a max damage of +/- 3600 at adept 3. GGz...

I like how the warlock comes on here and tries to defend devastation then finishes off with how he could get aggro by using it, lolz. What a tough life lemme tell ya...And if your getting agg then get a tank that has adept or master taunts and knows when to taunt and you wont have to worry. Then u can see your dps go from 200 -300 on single target mobs to 400-600 against grouped mobs.

Message Edited by OneBadAlien on 07-22-2005 04:01 PM

OneBadAli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 01:44 AM   #17
THuNDeRHe

General
THuNDeRHe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 9
Default


OneBadAlien wrote:

...And if your getting agg then get a tank that has adept or master taunts and knows when to taunt and you wont have to worry.


Good point here.... I've never pulled agro off my MT in any reasonable group situation, and never in a raid.  If you as a wizard are pulling agro off the MT, you need to get a new tank, or more likely, get your tank to taunt, or buy higher level taunts.
THuNDeRHe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 04:34 AM   #18
Asterra

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 158
Default


It doesnt hit for 12,000.  It hits for about 2,500 if I remember right.  The only time it ever does more is if it hits multiple mobs.
Indeed.  And multiple-mob scenarios are a bit rare when it comes to raids.  In fact, I think only Zarvonn's Tower, Shattered Stillness, Orcishwastes Caverns, Meeting of the Minds, Cove of Decay, Kra'thuk, Hand of Caldera, Knubed, Nagalik, Venekor, King Zatan, Vaz'gok, Fist of Solusek, Spirits of the Lost, all three of the Fire and Ice instances, Acts of War and Brutal Acts of War manage to present golden AE opportunities.
Asterra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 04:59 PM   #19
AkashaSh

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 56
Default

i am happy with my class...i have started some alts because i am 50 and what else is there to do when you not raiding he he and i have gotten to play with some warlocks and they can kick out some dmg and they can take some mad aggro....i will have to say i picked a wizzie thinkin it would be the highest dps and all that but warlocks seem to be on the end....now i am happy with the way my wizzie is she can kick out some mad dmg and not take aggro even when trying if you have a good tank and give them 2 seconds to get aggro i could not take it away i tryed this sooo i am happy with that.....now all the warlocks i ever played with just take aggro all the time even when tank has aggro....my point is i may not do as much dmg as a warlock but i dont take as much aggro either and as we all know aggro and bath robe wearer do not go hand and hand....he he.... more dmg would be great but you just have to think what that would mean....now with more dmg i am sure i could find ways to play and not take aggro but right now i know how to play my toon and i am happy! i can not wait to find out what is up with the revamp to see what they are doing with all classes!
__________________
Akashashaw level 65 wizard
AkashaSh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2005, 11:32 AM   #20
Telcontari71

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 55
Default

Sadly....

Wizards are going to get nerfed.   Warlocks are going to get a much bigger nerf.    No single player should be able to take down a ^^ mob at their same level.  It is coming so accept it, and get over it.

Wizards and warlocks have been overpowered for a long time.  I just hope they balance the resistances for the mobs.  All mobs including raid mobs.

 

 

Nimrodel

Telcontari71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2005, 01:49 PM   #21
Ashare

General
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 29
Default

Bwahhahaha. Again, you are talking for SPECIFIC mobs, in SPECIFIC zones, at a really HIGH level range(AFTER lv 45). Wizards problems are there from lvl 25/26 to the level 42 at least. Oh, and they won't nerf the wizzard, it's just they'll change the named ones and the ^^ ones to be more challenging against casters(like they are to non casters).
Ashare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2005, 04:59 PM   #22
WaachBack

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 228
Default

And its still going on....wow....
__________________
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
WaachBack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2005, 05:28 PM   #23
Tyrant Invict

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 56
Default

I'm a level 50 wizard.

I out DPS level 50 warlocks on raids.

I wish I could delete all these threads about the same thing.

Tyrant Invict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2005, 02:11 AM   #24
OneBadAli

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 159
Default



Tyrant Invictus wrote:

I'm a level 50 wizard.

I out DPS level 50 warlocks on raids.

I wish I could delete all these threads about the same thing.




Ok then post some parses (from raid zones), so we can all laugh continuously at the warlocks in your guild with all app 1 spells...

Or better yet point you out for being the liar u are. SMILEY

OneBadAli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2005, 06:25 AM   #25
Tar~Palantir

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 328
Default



Tyrant Invictus wrote:

I'm a level 50 wizard.

I out DPS level 50 warlocks on raids.

I wish I could delete all these threads about the same thing.




I suppose your warlocks wonder what these spell scrolls are on the broker.
__________________
Echoes of Fadywer: Finally an expansion that doesn't create a rat race for max level.
Tar~Palantir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 04:19 PM   #26
Seth

General
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 36
Default

Im a lvl 49 warlock. Never looked back.

Anyway, we get a big nuke at 23. Yey!

We get a big nuke at 37 yey!

We get an AoE at 50.... booo! So wat if it does 5000dmg or watever. You shoot that thing off you have 3 mobs on ya in 2secs.

Playing with a wizard friend who is lvl 46 or 47 we were pretty close in dmg. He would sometimes outdo me, i would sometimes outdo him. But the main thing i noticed is i took aggro most of the time.

I dont get were the complaining comes from.

__________________
Seth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 05:51 PM   #27
Zcenicx

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 220
Default

I have to agree with Seth01 and Tyrant.
 
I'm a 50 Wizard, fashionably dressed and armed with a glowing stick. Adept3s or better fill my bars. All of them.
I can kill a 51 ^^ mob myself. I've completed Harclave on very difficult.
I do outdamage a warlock dressed as well as me about 50% of the time. The rest he outdamages me. Both of us can pull aggro off of a rubicite dressed guardian with nothing but ad3/ma1 taunts.
 
Oh, you mentioned the raid zones.. well, let me be more specific.
 
Zarvonn's Tower -[Commonlands]- Main mob (King Zalak) is has 3 adds that are rapidly taken care of. AEs are useless after that since it's just lone mobs. Wizard/Warlock damage? Unknown, since both are stuck with add killing.
 
Shattered Stillness -[Firemyst Gully]- Main mob (Arch Lich Udalan) comes with two ^^ mobs. Warlocks banned from Devastation due to aggro management reasons. Mobs slightly resistant to noxious. Will call on other groups of minions later on, comes as separate engagements. Casters stuck killing those.
 
The Deserted Mine -[Zek]- Main mob (Tremblar the Behemoth) is alone. No AE necessary. Resistant to noxious and heat. Ring event requires AE, but mobs are resistant to poison.
 
Meeting of the Minds -[Feerrott]- Main mob (Overlord Oxulius) comes with several adds. Main resistant to fire. Adds are immune to elemental. Main mob is resistant to poison. Warlocks required if these (or Pkzwk Tzkr that calls them) are to be killed.
 
Spirits of the Lost -[Temple of Cazic-Thule]- Main mobs are Venekor and Varanak. Venekor immune to fire damage, Varanak resistant to noxious. This zone is too big to be described as one encounter however, and needs both AE and DD damage.
 
Fire and Ice -[Cove of Decay]- Mob comes with no adds, no known resistance.
Fire and Ice -[Trembling Lagoon]- Mob comes with two adds, sports a resistance to noxious.
Fire and Ice -[Miragul's Menagerie]- Mob comes alone. Immune to cold damage, vulnerable to heat.
 
Deception -[Firemyst Gully]- No resistances to either elemental or noxious here.
Deception -[Fallen Gate]- None here either.
Deception -[Sanctum of Fear]- Whoppie! Resistant (almost immune to) disease.
Deception -[Isle of Refuge]- Darathar sports no resistances to sorcery either.
 
Acts of War -[Splitpaw]- Lots of adds. Lots of mobs. Sorry tho, too many for the tank to easily handle - assist the tank, no AEs.
Brutal Acts of War -[Splitpaw]- Even worse than the ordinary instance, still as many adds. Tank strangles the warlock AEing.
 
the Kra'thuk -[Everfrost]- Comes with adds. Doubtful if the warlock survives AEing. Resistant, not immune to, cold.
Hand of the Caldera -[Solusek's Eye]- Immune to fire, but please, this mob is a x2 mob. You count those?
Knubed (aka Knubb) -[Permafrost]- Also an x2, comes with 4 guards that are very easy. No resists. AE is free.
Lord Nagalik -[Solusek's Eye]- No adds, but is in the middle of a spawn zone. Very hard mob, but no AE need. No resists.
Venekor -[Cazic-Thule]- Two adds, to be more precise poison elementals. Immune to noxious. Not immune to Elemental. 
King Zatan -[Everfrost]- Another x2. No adds. No resists.
Vaz'gok -[Feerrott]- Comes with ^^ adds. AEs are banned. Considered by many as the 2nd hardest mob in game.
Solusek's Fist -[Lavastorm]- IIRC he comes alone, immune only to heat. In a spawn zone.
 
On all these, I can see a few that are indeed immune to cold, or heat. Only one that are both (well, the add is anyways).
You left out that a lot of them are immune to noxious. That means both poison *and* disease. That's the tradeoff we make.
Warlocks are either totally resisted or not at all, while Wizards will face mobs immune to one or the other, never both.
 
You left one out tho, The Vision of Vox. Very high resistance to noxious, immunity to cold. Considered the hardest raid mob in the game.
 
 
Adara Frostborne, L50 Wizard of Najena
Zcenicx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 06:51 PM   #28
MilkToa

General
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 490
Default



Seth01 wrote:

Im a lvl 49 warlock. Never looked back.

Anyway, we get a big nuke at 23. Yey!

We get a big nuke at 37 yey!

We get an AoE at 50.... booo! So wat if it does 5000dmg or watever. You shoot that thing off you have 3 mobs on ya in 2secs.

Playing with a wizard friend who is lvl 46 or 47 we were pretty close in dmg. He would sometimes outdo me, i would sometimes outdo him. But the main thing i noticed is i took aggro most of the time.

I dont get were the complaining comes from.




I'm sorry but you don't know what your talking about. You're complaining about a spell (devastation) that you've never even cast. As a level 50 warlock with a master 1 of devastation I can tell you the spell is absolutely amazing. To my knowledge, it is by far the most powerful damage spell in the game,  even if it makes the caster an aggro magnet. There's no way I would trade this spell for ice comet and if you had ever used it you would know what I'm talking about. AEs are used all the time on raids and this is the big daddy of the AE spells.

 

 

 

MilkToa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 06:58 PM   #29
Seth

General
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 36
Default

Oh yer, im sure ill love the spell aswell. In my mind though id prob just rather a DD spell for a change. The last good DD spell is getting close to 13lvls ago now SMILEY
__________________
Seth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2005, 10:40 PM   #30
papabear0

 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 54
Default

__________________________________________________ _________________________

Tyrant Invictus wrote:

I'm a level 50 wizard.

I out DPS level 50 warlocks on raids.

I wish I could delete all these threads about the same thing.




Ok then post some parses (from raid zones), so we can all laugh continuously at the warlocks in your guild with all app 1 spells...

Or better yet point you out for being the liar u are.

__________________________________________________ __________________________

 

sadly, even with app 1 spells.  they still will outdamage you.

papabear0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:45 AM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.