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Old 11-03-2016, 04:27 PM   #1
captainbeatty451

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Reading the update notes the other day, where it was mentioned that Proof of Pudding will be required to finish the tradeskill quest line, I think something snapped in my brain. I mean, I actually feel it more in my stomach, a kind of sick feeling, but it's probably my brain that broke. Perhaps my heart, but that's a bit melodramatic.

(insert 3 long paragraphs about how I'm already cut down to 2 characters in this expansion because of the prerequisites and probable maintenance of also leveling ascension, and one of them is currently working on everything you need to do to even be a level 100 crafter. Essentially, these last few weeks have been a case of, oh crap, I have to do THAT? and then again if I want another character? on top of anything else I want to do like gear or tradeskill or just have fun?)

Honestly, a new expansion should bring feelings of excitement! not feelings of defeat. It should feel like multiple high fives! Not numerous punches in the stomach. It should feel like the trip is made of trampolines that add bounce to your step, not hurdles that are just a little taller than they should be, so they crack against your shins.

Please, in the future, do not do these things to us. ToT and AoM had zero prerequisite quests aside from leveling. Just ...let us have fun without going back in time to do so.

This almost is the straw breaking the back (because, sure, it's fairly minor in and of itself), rather than the new awesome piece of news that makes me lose sleep like a kid waiting for Santa.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
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Old 11-03-2016, 04:31 PM   #2
NrthnStar5

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Maybe try and look at it from the perspective that we have 1 year to play this expansion. I personally am only readying 1 toon to have the pre-reqs done prior to expansion launch. Other toons will be taking a more casual approach. And I'm also not that worried about getting the Epic Weapon 1.0 done before launch because I know I won't be starting 2.0 for a while, and may or may not ever get 2.0 lol.
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Old 11-03-2016, 04:45 PM   #3
captainbeatty451

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You know, honestly, what this expansion feels like it is doing is further dividing the hardcore from the casuals,and those of us who are somewhere in between are the ones who are feeling it the most in negative ways. If you love taking your time and being totally casual, sure this expansion will be great. If you're already spending 5 or more hours a day on the game and have time locked in for raids and anything else you can come up with along with already having played the game for 12 years and completed all content already, yup, this is right up your alley. But for someone who is newer to the game, enjoys being at least good in heroic content and wants to be well-rounded but doesn't have as much time to play...well for people like that, this expansion keeps making me sour.

edit: and I can't imagine being someone in the 3rd category who comes back to the game without knowing those prerequisites exist prior to starting the expansion. At least when I found out about them, I had a solid month to work on it.
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Old 11-03-2016, 04:53 PM   #4
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I agree that the pre-req's are a bit steep... Proof of the Pudding wasn't too hard for me to get done thankfully, but the Greenmist HQ is a long one, and the epic weapon 1.0 is very long, especially if you do not have the pre-req's done for that. I guess we'll see how it plays out during launch. Thankfully, the EQ2 community is mostly pleasant and willing to help out.
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:06 PM   #5
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I only did Epic Repercussions on my Pally when I leveled her up originally (before Aerakyn, after Epic Repercussions). When I found out that I would need to do my epic in order to even have a chance at doing Epic 2.0 I started looking at everything I was going to have to do in order to get it done. And I had the same reaction.

Then I went and did the Mysterious Green Tome which took me like 10 minutes, maybe 20. Then I went and started my epic timeline and saw that I was going to need 40k faction with the Synod Reet and groaned about how long that was going to take... and was done in about 30-45 minutes (I had NEVER done anything... so I was starting at what... -30k?). Then the rest of the timeline took me maybe another hour or two? Literally the longest part of this ordeal was me doing PR before I was on that step and having to wait the 3 days so that I could turn my Fabled into my Mythical. This was all done pretty much solo (a guildie came along just to keep me company and because they had never done Reet faction as well).

That's right folks... it took me a whopping 2-3 days off of and on playing between also doing beta timelines, real life, sleeping, and eating. I went from saying "omfg this will take forever" to having solo'd for my mythical weapon.

I have one of every crafting type, and every one of them has their earring of the solstice. The game (and that timeline) has simply been out for so long that I've managed to get it done because I woke up one morning and said "bleh, nothing else to really do today... guess I'll get Proof of the Pudding done".

This is a lore heavy game. Expecting new bits of the story to come out without referencing old lore is setting yourself up to be annoyed.
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:14 PM   #6
Materfarmer

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And you actually didn't even need to do the Mythical part. Only the Fabled version will be required according to Feldon
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:17 PM   #7
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Exactly... it was a "well crap... now what... I wonder if I can solo the 3 raids now that the game has leveled beyond them..."
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:20 PM   #8
Wurm

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This game has had pre-reg's spread out from the very beginning (2004) up to now.

And all of the ones required for KA make sense.

Proof of the Pudding (one of the best quest-lines to do period) gives you your master cloak. How is the KA sig-line supposed to give you your grand-master cloak if you never earned your master cloak?

Gravy for doing it to get ready for KA: Solstice Earring which lets you see red shiny collections spread out all over Norrath which reward some of the coolest looking housing items available.

Greenmist: It ties tightly into the story line for Kunark and why we chose to support one lich against another.

Gravy for doing Greenmist: Learning some of the Norrathian lore, and getting a book and weapon for your house.

Speak like a dragon: needed for so much in game and you only have to do it once for all your toons.

Satharian Language: Well you need it for proof in the pudding anyway... and the pages are marked in eq2 maps and are static.

My suggestion is not to stress it. mentor down, enjoy being a god and take the couple of hours to get them done. You won't regret having them finished later.

The game has excellent content that isn't endgame, So many people forget that.

*edit* And anyone needs the Alchemist Celestial Solvent made on Maj'Dul send me a tell I'll make it for you for free if you have the mats.
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:36 PM   #9
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I do agree that it seems daunting when you first look at the walkthrough (and there is more than a little PTSD from having done many of these things when they were first available). One thing to remember is that you are now crazy over-powered compared to how things were back then. You can do all of these quests grey, you have access to travel that we would have killed for back then, and we have walkthroughs that give every step in order. It really doesn't take as long as it feels like it will.

And even if you aren't a lore person (my brain starts to melt with all of the "K'nah angered her farther Bl'argh, which started the Fifty Minute War, which caused the splintering of the race of Emnumnums"), Daybreak has frickin' knocked it out of the park with this expansion. The callbacks to the last twelve years, the weaving of current and past and long-past tales, the way the tradeskill and adventure lines mesh with each other, and the implementing of old zones and trick into the new stuff...it's really impressive.

So yeah, it looks frustrating, and a lot of us just want to jump in and *play* on day one, but give it a shot. We have some time before release to get stuff done on Live, so you *will* be able to jump right in. Kander has confirmed that at least for the adventure signature line, once you run one toon through it, you'll be able to get a bauble for your alts (that will cover Greenmist and the languages). For the Epic weapon and the tradeskill Grandmaster cloak (from Brytthel's final quest), those are both *epics*, so no baubles for them...but they are purely optional, just like the original weapon and master cloak.

I grumbled and groaned too. A lot. But when I actually sat down and did it, it really wasn't that bad and the results were worth the time invested.
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:50 PM   #10
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Just a small correction on Speak like a Dragon. You only need to do the FULL quest on 1 toon then the Rune part can be skipped with a tablet. But you still need to do the quest on all your toons.
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:52 PM   #11
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Wurm, and others, I agree with your sentiments to an extent. It's not that hard to do any of these things, and in many cases it is fun. But compare joining the game during AoM, jumping right into that content and having fun for a few months, then being able to jump right into ToT and having fun for almost a year--and being able to complete all quest lines either trade or adventure without having to go backwards-- to now, and it's a completely different story.

I had fun going back to do the greenmist and epic weapon on one character. But it was a chore to do it twice. So now, my ranger will gather dust. My paladin will certainly gather dust, and my provisioner and jeweler will be out of work as well. And after getting to a place where I was still having to do a lot to get one character ready, then there was yet another thing that I had to do on at least one character--which also then became a decision maker in terms of do I even want to have 2 tradeskills maxed before heading into new content? And that is a decision that kind of sucks to make and was not a decision I even had to think about before when I made 3 fully leveled crafters during AoM and ToT. Self imposed future restriction? Kind of. But it's not the same as it was in my playtime here from AoM to now, and it's a change that I totally disagree with.

It makes sense on a lore level. It even makes sense on a sort of fun level if I only had one character who I enjoyed. But the idea that this game wants us to play only one character and have played that character for years, just seems to be rearing its head quite a bit more with this content and is a fairly huge change from what my experience in this game has been. It is cool that there is a lot of old content to explore when I want to check it out. I have done some chrono missions. I enjoy them. It is totally annoying when that old content becomes a requirement. And I hope they discontinue this practice in the future.

Also, sure it only takes 2 or 3 hours to do certain things. It also takes about 5 or so hours, if you sit there diligently doing it, to level a trade from 1-95 and then another handful of hours from 95 to 100. but let's look at it like this, those 2 or 3 or 5 hours might be the only hours I get to spend on the game on a particular weekend or week. And I want to be doing things that are new and fun, or at least current and fun, and not things that are necessary/required and old. "Sorry guys, I can't take my new character out on a fun dungeon group right now if I ever want to be ready for the expansion. Oh yeah, I wasn't able to make any plat for the last month because I spent my whole time doing old content for prereqs, so I guess I'll need to spend even more time doing plat grinds when the expansion lands rather than just enjoying my time."

You all make sense, but it doesn't change the fact that they are turning the game into much more of a chore by doing this, and it will cause people to get frustrated and leave. It already has caused a number of people to drop their alts. And for those reasons alone, it shouldn't be the way things are done.
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:06 PM   #12
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I can't speak for everyone. I like the having to get things done for the expac since the things that are required are from kunark. Proof of the pudding, if you are a crafter and you don't have this done, Its part of being a crafter.......
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:23 PM   #13
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I have 3 tradeskills currently maxed. I don't use them very often, but it is nice to be able to make certain things if I need to and also especially to be able to make purple adorns and runes and green adorns etc. I have never felt like I needed Proof of Pudding or any other crafting materials--though some are sort of nice to have, they are not at all necessary. I experimented all of my crafted gear to max level without wearing one piece of 'crafting' gear. But I did complete the sig trade lines in both AoM and ToT, because they were fun, and they were at the time, current. And there wasn't any backtracking necessary. Being a crafter means self reliance to me. It doesn't mean something arbitrary that has little real utility.

So I guess that being said, this is another decision that forces us to work as a community. I love helping people. It's a huge part of what I do in the game. However, when that idea of community is forced upon us, well, it just doesn't feel the same. 'Play this way, please. The way you've been playing is wrong.'
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:33 PM   #14
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You don't really need to finish proof of pudding for the tradeskill line, its only needed for the final quest(which is supposed to be a tradeskill epic 2.0 anyways). The whole normal tradeskill line doesn't require anything except the goblin language I think. So, if you don't do proof of pudding you'll only be missing out on 1 quest(which isn't required for the new tradeskill recipes, just for a few purple adornment recipes, a mount and a new class cloak).
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:37 PM   #15
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I disagree with you Captain, but I respect your opinion.

I like having the "work" I did on my toon(s) count for something and I think if someone wants something hard enough they will make the effort but that's my opinion, just as valid as yours.
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:37 PM   #16
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Purple adorns pretty much the best thing about being a trade in the first place, for me. Thank you for the info, though. That at least makes it feel less like it needs to be done on more than one character.
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:10 PM   #17
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I really like this post Wurm. Thank you.

It is overwhelming in a game that has years' worth of content. It is more overwhelming when folks allow themselves to be overwhelmed if they think about the six hundred alts they feel they HAVE to do stuff for. I get like this at the start of an expansion, but it is temporary!

As you play, you do things for your characters, you get those HQs done, you get those languages done (I mean, who likes a mob talking "smack" about your lineage and not know what they are saying? BigGrin ) Maybe you even randomly help someone out as you move about the zones.

Before you know it, you accomplish the things that are fun and that you feel you want to get done. The rest? Well the rest gets done after that or when you feel like it.

I get where you are coming from OP I just disagree because as the days roll forward, it won't be so overwhelming. Have fun, it's what it comes down to!
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Old 11-04-2016, 02:44 AM   #18
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There is a lot of confusing reference in this thread to adventure quest prerequisites that have nothing to do with the tradeskill questline, so to clarify:
  • the essentials and advanced recipe books for all tradeskill classes are fully tradeable, so if you just want to get those for your alts, you can just ask someone with enough faction to buy them for you. No need to do anything at all.
  • to do the tradeskill questline in Kunark Ascending, the only prerequisite is having done the tradeskill questline in Thalumbra, which is not particularly onerous, and learning Goblish, which can be done via trackable harvest nodes if you don't already know it. Doing the first part of this questline, not even all the quests, and some dailies will unlock the "special" faction merchant recipes such as mercenary gear and spirit stones. These recipe books are heirloom, so you only have to do that on one character on your account if you prefer.
  • to do the tradeskill epic 2.0 quest, aka "The Final Blow" signature quest, yes, you need to do the tradeskill epic 1.0 quest, "Proof of the Pudding". Since the Earring of the Solstice awarded by this quest is a requirement to see every single tradeskill collection ever added to the game, I think it's pretty safe to assume that most tradeskiller characters have done this quest already. But there are very nice rewards on this quest, and I think they're worth requiring a bit of effort. If you don't think they're worth the effort, you can certainly choose not to do the quest on your alts, just like you didn't choose to do the prerequisite quests on your alts. These quests are for fun! If you're not having fun, don't do them! The rewards are pretty and shiny, but there are lots of other pretty shiny things you can get instead if you prefer. Smile
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Old 11-04-2016, 03:26 AM   #19
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Thanks Domino, you're the best for the concise answer!
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Old 11-04-2016, 08:25 AM   #20
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And Domino has us covered on the Goblin language - she's put Goblin Territory Markers around Twark for folks that don't have it already.
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Old 11-04-2016, 08:30 AM   #21
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The official "you only need to do the adventure pre-reqs once" post from Kander is up:

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Old 11-04-2016, 01:51 PM   #22
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Thank you for the clarification. That's helpful, and like others said, I agree that there is some overreacting on my part.

What's really happening for me is just a list of things one after another--proof of pudding requirement being the most recent-- with new content, starting with resolve and how that has changed the game for me and my friends, where the game feels like it is now telling us to play in ways that at least in my time here were not necessary. So it's a bit of a shock to the system with one after another thing sort of punishing us for playing a certain way, I guess.

I've already done everything that needed to be done on 2 characters except for Proof of Pudding, and at least on one, I relaxed and enjoyed myself after the initial moment on beta where I was in a fun dungeon where a chest wouldn't open and I was like, I have to do WHAT?. I'm glad you all made the change so that we do not have to do everything on alternate characters. That is a huge improvement, and it is a welcome change.

It's great to have a lot of stuff to do, but it feels kind of less great when we are being pushed, sometimes herded, sometimes severely gated because of choices we made where we did not have the necessary information at the time of making the choice (example epic weapon 1.0, greenmist). The way this expansion is rolling out is different from AoM and ToT, and I think the changes make the game less open and friendly. There is already a LOT that a person has to do to get ready for grouping at level 100 content. There is no reason to add more from previous content that does not give anything practically useful.

And about Proof of Pudding and to the same extent greenmist, as someone who started the game only a year and a half ago and quickly got to a point where I could play with my friends who were at level, and then ground out hours at crafting tables, doing writs to get to 100, so as to be able to make the best things for myself and friends and also create the support items like runes and adornments at max level, and then doing the current tradeskill lines that had no roadblocks or prerequisites... well, If someone hadn't one time mentioned proof of pudding, I never would have even known it existed. And since I had maxed out experimented gear, could make all of the items I ever wanted easily... there just wasn't anything I felt I was missing. There's a very real situation where many people are level 100 in a trade and have no idea that this quest is even a thing. Just like I had no idea greenmist was a thing.

And greenmist name of fear etc are not even quests you would EVER find by just walking around the game doing quests as a solo character. You can't even start this quest if you are soloing, since where it begins is in a dungeon where you need another person to even get to it. So again, I don't see how it is not recognized as slightly crazy that they are now requirements for brand new content... Not a big deal? Game is fun? Cool to visit those places? Sure. 100% I agree. But these things are now forced in a way that wasn't the case during my time here.

The list of prerequisites for AoM sig line: be level 95, ER(optional but great). List of prerequisites for ToT: level 100, ER (optional but great), AoM sig line for the gear and a decent mount (optional because you can get gear in other ways). KA prerequisites: Same as ToT except also, Tons of stuff that was previously unnecessary and currently only helps you in intangible kinds of ways like being able to open a box because you finished a heritage questline that you wouldn't even know about and now have to bug people to help you and probably use wiki. Believe me, I like the game, and the vast number of things to do make it amazing. But not everyone has played for 12 years, and those who haven't shouldn't be forced to do things they may have missed by being a new player who enjoys the current content. As I said before, but maybe not quite so clearly, this expansion feels like it is consistently telling me: "You have been playing the game in a way that we do not condone. Now you will play it our way."

Thanks again for your time and consideration. .
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Old 11-08-2016, 06:47 AM   #23
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I've never learned Sathirian for my PoP.. just FYI.
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Old 11-08-2016, 07:02 AM   #24
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You did if you wanted the cloak.
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Old 11-08-2016, 07:35 AM   #25
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Nope, the same toons that have their cloak and earring had to learn Sathirian once I started beta..
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Old 11-08-2016, 09:11 AM   #26
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Not that it really matters for the purpose of this thread or to the fact that eventually you will need to learn Sathirian for the new expansion, no matter what, but I just did the PoP questline and received my cloak from Danelak Hosfoak on a shiny new level 100 toon that didn't speak the language. So yeah looks like the change was made since the initial Kunark expansion release.
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Old 11-08-2016, 09:36 AM   #27
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I already spoke Sathirian when I did it back in the day when it was still current content, So I can't tell you if it had been changed or not.

I don't mind them adding it as a requirement for this expac though.
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Old 11-08-2016, 04:15 PM   #28
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I didn't see Kander mention it. Do we only need to go back and do the Greenmist Quest on 1 character and alts can bypass that?

I've never done the Greenmist before.
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Old 11-08-2016, 04:20 PM   #29
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I have Sathirian on my main, but my crafter alts - who have the earring and shawl - do not have it. I really hope this doesn't keep them from being able to complete the new Epic.
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Old 11-08-2016, 06:57 PM   #30
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It has been reported by the developers that they will give a bauble upon completion of the sig line that provides the greenmist ability to open the chest for the sig line along with the necessary languages. So, you will only need to do the pre reqs one time. Epic 1.0 will need to be done on every character who wants epic 2.0.
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