Cure enhancement AA nerf?!?!

Isard · 12-12-2006, 03:40 AM

From the test server notes just posted: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=162#M162

*** Achievements ***

- Achievements: Added more collections levels 10-19 to grant achievement experience.
- Enhancements to targeted or group buffs should no longer reset to their base spell properties.
- Assassin: Frontload: Modified prose to reflect that it only increases the trigger chances of the assassin's own abilities.
- Assassin: Getaway: Fixed bug that allowed combat arts and auto attack to not break stealth. Instead of blinking, the Assassin gains increased combat movement speed.
- Brigand: Safehouse: Now has a maximum range of 200.
- Brigand: Safehouse: Fixed stealth component when Safehouse expires.
- Coercer: Coercive Healing: Fixed Regen and Ward healing effects to benefit as described.
- Coercer: Enhance: Dispel Magic: Fixed to dispel hostile mental effects instead of divine.
- Coercer: Thought Snap: Fixed to properly target a random fighter in the group.
- Coercer: Mana Flow: Fixed duration reduction amount to 2 seconds per rank.
- Conjurers and Necromancers: Enhance Pet Buffs: Buffs no longer require the player to log in or zone to activate the buff.
- Defiler: Soul Ward: Removed estimated ward amount, and now examining it reads "Wards target ally from as much damage as was sacrificed by the caster"
- Fury: Enhance: Starfire: Optional requirement is Enhance: Engulfing Roots instead of Enhance: Snare.
- Guardian: Block: Expires only if the guardian blocks or uses a combat art.
- Illusionist: Split Personality: Increased its overall effectiveness.
- Illusionist: Enhance: Storm of Colors: expiration effect will affect all targets.
- Illusionist: Enhance: Color Shower: expiration effect will affect all targets.
- Inquisitor: Enhance: Verdict: Verdict affect will trigger properly if the target's health crosses below the threshold within the duration.
- Monk: Enhance: Martial Order: Fixed so that it siphons hate from a non-fighter ally, or gives hate if it is a fighter ally.
- Monk: Master's Evasion: Expires only if the monk dodges or uses a combat art.
- Shadowknight: Reaver: Increased health gain to 2.5% of maximum health per hit. Reaver is now affected by Taunts.
- Shadowknight Enhance: Infernal Blessing achievement should now display the heal amount correctly.
- Swashbuckler: Enhance: Inspired Daring: Reduced benefit from 15 to 8 seconds per rank.
- Warden: Cure Enhancements will expire after 3 hits from that damage type.
- Wizard: Surging Tempest: Restored original update count to 7 ticks isntead of 9.

So... good thing I haven't been spending all of my AA's there. The DEV's giveth and the DEV's taketh away SMILEY

Message Edited by Isard on 12-11-2006 04:40 PM

selch · 12-12-2006, 03:44 AM

Those were only useful thing in Warden AA's, so no point on getting them anymore ...

Amitee · 12-12-2006, 04:09 AM

I found only the Trauma cure to be useful being it was like a 300+ 1 minute mitigation buff, and was on the verge of respeccing out of the rest of cures anyway. The whole resist thing is borked. I'm of the opinion they should be fixing resists before they start tuning these things.

Oldlore · 12-12-2006, 04:16 AM

Unbelievable lol. I can't believe they took a subpar AA line and made it worse. 3 hits means youre casting the trauma cure every 5-10s in any fight where you want it up. Pretty ridiculous imo. It's unfortunate the rest of the lines blow for PvE. I don't want melee CAs, I don't want better anti-death timers, and faster SoW is fluff, not really essential.

Goozman · 12-12-2006, 04:27 AM

ouch. they probably nerfed it to balance it with the templar and mystic ones... but that's pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. they should have made the templar/mystic ones better.

mikemcmodmi · 12-12-2006, 04:30 AM

That is an unbelievable nurf! For the love of god, the entire line is now useless. Needing to spam cure trauma for it to stick is ridiculous. I just can't believe the changes, that's [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

mikemcmodmi · 12-12-2006, 04:38 AM

Another thing I just realized. Because there's no icon up when you cast cure trauma, there's no way to know if the effect stays up or not. In the end, this will mean the whole line will become useless....

This was the one thing I liked about EoF and I believed fixed Wardens. Without the cure lines you're better off with a crusader for avoidance and mitigation in G1. I don't know.... Vanguard's looking pretty good right about now. This change better not hit live.

selch · 12-12-2006, 04:46 AM

nm

Message Edited by selch on 12-11-2006 04:54 PM

mikemcmodmi · 12-12-2006, 05:05 AM

This is a horrible change. There were a lot of things I didn't like about our AAs but overall I was pleased because of the cure line. Now that the cure line is useless our entire set of AAs looks like [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. This is ridiculous.

Goozman · 12-12-2006, 05:06 AM

selch wrote:

To add more insult to this nerf:

* Fury: Irritating Swarm: Reduces Aggression skill.

And their snare AA changed to make their root better which was possibly worst "favored" to give class defining abilities to them.

I thought wardens were defensive and debuffing for tanks to keep aggro better was a defensive manuever.

That doesn't add any insult to anything... While I agree the change to Wardens is really stupid, there were no changes to Furies to make them better in that patch. They simply added a spell casting skill and added it to all buffs and debuffs that raise or reduce spell casting skills. Irritating swarm is as useless as ever.

And whatever u said about the snare and root aa's is wrong lolz. All they did was remove the connection between snare and starnova, and make a connection between root and starnova. So now you can't get Enhance Starnova after getting Snare to rank 3 (it was broken before anyway)

Dragonreal · 12-12-2006, 05:20 AM

mikemcmodmike wrote:

Another thing I just realized. Because there's no icon up when you cast cure trauma, there's no way to know if the effect stays up or not. In the end, this will mean the whole line will become useless....

This was the one thing I liked about EoF and I believed fixed Wardens. Without the cure lines you're better off with a crusader for avoidance and mitigation in G1. I don't know.... Vanguard's looking pretty good right about now. This change better not hit live.

At least in vanguard druids are considered dps class and not healers... idk about anyone else but having my primary role be to kill crap would solve a fair chunk of the issues I have right now =/

civilgeek · 12-12-2006, 05:45 AM

Wow... this is a huge slap in the face as we don't have any worth while buffs once again. 3 hits on a trauma cure? That is absolutly rediculous as for most single mob fights it will stay up a max of 6-10 seconds. If your fighting a group it may last 1 second. SOE needs to rethink this.... LOL this is about the only way they could have made these buffs completely useless. No one wants to continuously spam a buff. If this stays in I hope soe makes the macros so that they can loop. That way I can put the MT on autofollow and go to dinner:smileyvery-happy:

Haldir - 70 Warden - Oasis

Leader of the Golden Rose of Qeynos

jka · 12-12-2006, 05:50 AM

Dragonrealms wrote:

mikemcmodmike wrote:

Another thing I just realized. Because there's no icon up when you cast cure trauma, there's no way to know if the effect stays up or not. In the end, this will mean the whole line will become useless....

This was the one thing I liked about EoF and I believed fixed Wardens. Without the cure lines you're better off with a crusader for avoidance and mitigation in G1. I don't know.... Vanguard's looking pretty good right about now. This change better not hit live.

At least in vanguard druids are considered dps class and not healers... idk about anyone else but having my primary role be to kill crap would solve a fair chunk of the issues I have right now =/

So true... so true.

Layar

mikemcmodmi · 12-12-2006, 05:58 AM

There's nothing that enhances furies but what this change does is screw up where we fit into a raid. With the cure line Wardens were hands down the best in G1. Now with the changes we're back to having no spot to fill...

Go Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Dirge, Coercer and Palladin ftw now. Have the Palladin put the buff on the MT that gives him a 50% or so to avoid based on the palladin's avoidance. Then pledge of armament on the MT. Epics pretty much ignore all our avoidance buffs atm and sandstorm costs too much power to maintain. The only part of avoidance that isn't [Removed for Content] is block, so have the palladin keep a shield on for the block chance plus he should have extra block chance adornments. You should see your tank avoiding more then anything we can provide. Then with pledge of armament on the tank the MT should be able to hit 6k mitigation which is all you need, everything past that has such horrible returns there's no point. So after the changes there's no point in even spamming cure trauma. With this setup you'll hit 6k mit, avoid more then with a warden in G1. What does the tank lose by not having us in G1?..... well spores and the group hot. Everything else can be cast from outside G1. Iow bye bye group1.

Then for dps groups we don't provide good enough buffs. You're better off betraying to fury for agitate and int buffs for extra dps. On top of which you get an extra cure nox... which is always the most important dispell. Nox and elemental > elemental and trauma cure.

This change really screws us. We're back to square one, you're better off bringing an extra fury instead of a warden to raids in all circumstances.

Btw, about vanguard. Disciples are the closest to a druid. They don't get ports or anything fancy, but they heal through hots, good group heals and have good dps.

Shizzirri · 12-12-2006, 06:32 AM

mikemcmodmike wrote:

There's nothing that enhances furies but what this change does is screw up where we fit into a raid. With the cure line Wardens were hands down the best in G1. Now with the changes we're back to having no spot to fill...

Go Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Dirge, Coercer and Palladin ftw now. Have the Palladin put the buff on the MT that gives him a 50% or so to avoid based on the palladin's avoidance. Then pledge of armament on the MT. Epics pretty much ignore all our avoidance buffs atm and sandstorm costs too much power to maintain. The only part of avoidance that isn't [Removed for Content] is block, so have the palladin keep a shield on for the block chance plus he should have extra block chance adornments. You should see your tank avoiding more then anything we can provide. Then with pledge of armament on the tank the MT should be able to hit 6k mitigation which is all you need, everything past that has such horrible returns there's no point. So after the changes there's no point in even spamming cure trauma. With this setup you'll hit 6k mit, avoid more then with a warden in G1. What does the tank lose by not having us in G1?..... well spores and the group hot. Everything else can be cast from outside G1. Iow bye bye group1.

Then for dps groups we don't provide good enough buffs. You're better off betraying to fury for agitate and int buffs for extra dps. On top of which you get an extra cure nox... which is always the most important dispell. Nox and elemental > elemental and trauma cure.

This change really screws us. We're back to square one, you're better off bringing an extra fury instead of a warden to raids in all circumstances.

Btw, about vanguard. Disciples are the closest to a druid. They don't get ports or anything fancy, but they heal through hots, good group heals and have good dps.

I knew the nerf was coming didn't know to what degree but in all honestly the stat bonuses, at least the physical ones worked best on brawler tanks, and those rarely tank raids (ours does every so often), but with a guard tank in full fabled the physical mit only goes up like 2-3% tops because of the new stat caps etc.

And I agree there's no point in spamming cure trauma I didn't sign up to play a warden to spam one [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing spell on the tank, if I wanted to do that i'd be playing a ranger in EQ1 still SMILEY

So I'm only picturing what aoes like searing rot, savage blows, etc will do against these cures now since they hit real fast over a short period of time, and yeah they we're nice against these aoes.

So yeah we're left with primative instinct, spores, and sandstorm.

So I guess now we have furies who can heal as much as we can, can buff as well as we can, but do twice the dps and us? Yeah that's fair sony!

Now do I dare ask when nature's walk is getting fixed because that definetly doesn't work on MOST knockbacks like the spell description says, if it does then Chel'drak, the nightblood named in blight obelisk, the horses in emerald halls, hurricanus, trey'loth, and prince whatever his name is (in EH) all missed out on this one.

But on a bright note now I won't feel bad for putting 5 aa's into sow, I can run faster than everyone else out of combat, with certain gear setups, but I'll stop talking about that because I'm sure that's next on the nerf list.

As for the "nuke ca" line this one is def not worth it because I'd have to change my entire gear setup since they're based on str and not int (and full aa's in this one < master nukes).

Eitherway I still see wardens in the MT group as long as primative instinct buffs weapon skills as much as it does.

So I'll stick with what I've said elsewhere, furies for flavor of the month in 2007!

Bad · 12-12-2006, 07:01 AM

Shizzirri wrote:
But on a bright note now I won't feel bad for putting 5 aa's into sow, I can run faster than everyone else out of combat, with certain gear setups, but I'll stop talking about that because I'm sure that's next on the nerf list.

Faster than 60% self buffed? I'm curious how you can manage that.

T'Pol · 12-12-2006, 08:58 AM

I just cant believe it.Thank you SOE :smileymad:

tuli · 12-12-2006, 09:02 AM

Shizzirri wrote:

I knew the nerf was coming didn't know to what degree but in all honestly the stat bonuses, at least the physical ones worked best on brawler tanks, and those rarely tank raids (ours does every so often), but with a guard tank in full fabled the physical mit only goes up like 2-3% tops because of the new stat caps etc.

I want to correct some issue here, in my brawler 50% mit in group setup, cure trauma 5 points was giving only 2.6% , I can imagine it was much LESS in full fabled plate tanks.

That nerf is like a blade turning whole AA board into uttermost useless.

mikemcmodmi · 12-12-2006, 09:26 AM

The mitigation curve only starts going bad after 6k mitigation. So really once your tank is at 6k mit there's no point in buffing mitigation anymore. We got the tank to 6k and just past it. Now a crusader can do the same thing as us with their mit buff.

I forgot about primitive instinct. It's a good buff now, and does help the tank hold aggro. With the aggression skill maybe there's no need for it though. If the tank can hold aggro with a pally in G1 then we're out of there. With us you can't hit 6k mit anymore as the drawback of putting us in G1. Plus from what I've seen sandstorm costs too much power in longer fights so isn't a reason to put us in G1.

This is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. What was just our strength with mitigation buffing is now our weakness in the raid picture. This hopefully won't hit live.

Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 12-11-2006 08:27 PM

Lunaya · 12-12-2006, 09:41 AM

I hate SOE for this.If Furies do twice the damage we should heal twice the hitpoints.

physht · 12-12-2006, 10:31 AM

I am opposite to this change.

It is because AA of Warden dies completely.

I want you to delete the line that changes DD into CA, and to make the line that newly strengthens DD.

susanjjacobs · 12-12-2006, 10:41 AM

/betray : (

Writer Cal · 12-12-2006, 10:46 AM

Well, this sucks. I don't see much point in taking the cures now. Although, on Test right now, Enhance: Verdant Sigh says it expires after 5 hits instead of 3. So I guess the Cures themselves get 3 hits, and Verdant Sigh gets 5. Joy. That ought to last all of half a heartbeat in any situation other than soloing single solo mobs.

physht wrote:

I want you to delete the line that changes DD into CA, and to make the line that newly strengthens DD.

Umm, this would make me very unhappy.

NogginMush · 12-12-2006, 12:20 PM

Pretty upset with this nerf, I just wonder what the underlying ulterior motives SOE have, with vanguard coming out in just over a months time, they make this game seem less and less attractive with each patch, are SOE pushing us towards vanguard with a view to them taking it over?? That way they can merge most EQ2 servers and use the ones left over for vanguard?? Little expense for SOE and they'd still have the EQ2 playerbase.. Or am I just being paranoid??

One [Removed for Content] off warden..

Sorano · 12-12-2006, 12:40 PM

The nerf is uncalled for and removes one of the few good buffs wardens get. If they do need to adjust it then change it to expiry after 15 hits or something. Three is just ridiculous.

As an aside to Mike, I am puzzled on why you can't get your tank to 6k mit without a pally. Both our raid tanks easily sit at 6.5k mit with just priest buffs.

Maledan · 12-12-2006, 01:39 PM

I can't believe it. I had hoped for some improvements to the warden tree, seeing how inferior it already is. The cure enhancements were the only abilities that one could call 'powerful' to a certain extent. Not overpowered, mind you... with a fabled tank, the benefit was not _that_ great due to the way mitigation works now. Now instead of the much needed improvements we get a major nerf. I really loved playing my warden before EoF, but EoF (along with the other game updates) changed an OK class into what is probably the least desirable priest class right now SMILEY

I can only hope that the devs take another hard look at the priest class balance... it's seriously broken, and I'm really puzzled how they can overlook something so obvious.

HVA · 12-12-2006, 04:34 PM

This is simply terrible :smileysad:

It was the only EoF aa-line i kinda liked, and now its broken.

Only good thing about this is - i dont need to use time on getting more aa-points.

Maledan · 12-12-2006, 04:56 PM

HVA wrote:
Only good thing about this is - i dont need to use time on getting more aa-points.

Yep... there's no real benefit to gain by grinding AP with my main now. I'll probably spend that time leveling my Fury alt instead. Let's hope the Warden class will get useful again at some point in the future.

Barand · 12-12-2006, 05:02 PM

I sticked for warden since release with good and bad time for usI think this is the last hit for me, if its go live i will betray. There is nothing for us in this expansion and now that fury get root and i even dont have to worry about soloabilityeven the armor class are a joke for wardensure now noone care about us, this one will also go live without a word from a dev, i mean when was the last time a dev spoke here ?6 month ago ? 1 year ? that maybe the last time the think about our raid role too

pootski · 12-12-2006, 05:16 PM

What class do you think whined enough to the devs that they made this change?I can see no other reason.

12-12-2006, 03:40 AM	#1
Isard Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Qeynos Posts: 294	From the test server notes just posted: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=162#M162 * Achievements * - Achievements: Added more collections levels 10-19 to grant achievement experience. - Enhancements to targeted or group buffs should no longer reset to their base spell properties. - Assassin: Frontload: Modified prose to reflect that it only increases the trigger chances of the assassin's own abilities. - Assassin: Getaway: Fixed bug that allowed combat arts and auto attack to not break stealth. Instead of blinking, the Assassin gains increased combat movement speed. - Brigand: Safehouse: Now has a maximum range of 200. - Brigand: Safehouse: Fixed stealth component when Safehouse expires. - Coercer: Coercive Healing: Fixed Regen and Ward healing effects to benefit as described. - Coercer: Enhance: Dispel Magic: Fixed to dispel hostile mental effects instead of divine. - Coercer: Thought Snap: Fixed to properly target a random fighter in the group. - Coercer: Mana Flow: Fixed duration reduction amount to 2 seconds per rank. - Conjurers and Necromancers: Enhance Pet Buffs: Buffs no longer require the player to log in or zone to activate the buff. - Defiler: Soul Ward: Removed estimated ward amount, and now examining it reads "Wards target ally from as much damage as was sacrificed by the caster" - Fury: Enhance: Starfire: Optional requirement is Enhance: Engulfing Roots instead of Enhance: Snare. - Guardian: Block: Expires only if the guardian blocks or uses a combat art. - Illusionist: Split Personality: Increased its overall effectiveness. - Illusionist: Enhance: Storm of Colors: expiration effect will affect all targets. - Illusionist: Enhance: Color Shower: expiration effect will affect all targets. - Inquisitor: Enhance: Verdict: Verdict affect will trigger properly if the target's health crosses below the threshold within the duration. - Monk: Enhance: Martial Order: Fixed so that it siphons hate from a non-fighter ally, or gives hate if it is a fighter ally. - Monk: Master's Evasion: Expires only if the monk dodges or uses a combat art. - Shadowknight: Reaver: Increased health gain to 2.5% of maximum health per hit. Reaver is now affected by Taunts. - Shadowknight Enhance: Infernal Blessing achievement should now display the heal amount correctly. - Swashbuckler: Enhance: Inspired Daring: Reduced benefit from 15 to 8 seconds per rank. - Warden: Cure Enhancements will expire after 3 hits from that damage type. - Wizard: Surging Tempest: Restored original update count to 7 ticks isntead of 9. So... good thing I haven't been spending all of my AA's there. The DEV's giveth and the DEV's taketh away Message Edited by Isard on 12-11-2006 04:40 PM __________________ Malificant 90 Dirge - 90 Carpenter - Leader of Arion Unrest Server Hamsandwich 90 Mystic - 64 Weaponsmith Tenal 82 Warden - 74 Tailor

12-12-2006, 03:44 AM	#2
selch Lord Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Istanbul, Turkiye Posts: 1,305	Those were only useful thing in Warden AA's, so no point on getting them anymore ... __________________

12-12-2006, 04:09 AM	#3
Amitee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 476	I found only the Trauma cure to be useful being it was like a 300+ 1 minute mitigation buff, and was on the verge of respeccing out of the rest of cures anyway. The whole resist thing is borked. I'm of the opinion they should be fixing resists before they start tuning these things. __________________ I'm going to fill this space soon! (tm) Wait... I just did. lol

12-12-2006, 04:27 AM	#5
Goozman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 693	ouch. they probably nerfed it to balance it with the templar and mystic ones... but that's pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. they should have made the templar/mystic ones better. __________________

12-12-2006, 04:46 AM	#8
selch Lord Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Istanbul, Turkiye Posts: 1,305	nm Message Edited by selch on 12-11-2006 04:54 PM __________________

12-12-2006, 04:16 AM	#4
Oldlore Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 237	Unbelievable lol. I can't believe they took a subpar AA line and made it worse. 3 hits means youre casting the trauma cure every 5-10s in any fight where you want it up. Pretty ridiculous imo. It's unfortunate the rest of the lines blow for PvE. I don't want melee CAs, I don't want better anti-death timers, and faster SoW is fluff, not really essential.

12-12-2006, 04:30 AM	#6
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	That is an unbelievable nurf! For the love of god, the entire line is now useless. Needing to spam cure trauma for it to stick is ridiculous. I just can't believe the changes, that's [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

12-12-2006, 04:38 AM	#7
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	Another thing I just realized. Because there's no icon up when you cast cure trauma, there's no way to know if the effect stays up or not. In the end, this will mean the whole line will become useless.... This was the one thing I liked about EoF and I believed fixed Wardens. Without the cure lines you're better off with a crusader for avoidance and mitigation in G1. I don't know.... Vanguard's looking pretty good right about now. This change better not hit live.

12-12-2006, 05:05 AM	#9
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	This is a horrible change. There were a lot of things I didn't like about our AAs but overall I was pleased because of the cure line. Now that the cure line is useless our entire set of AAs looks like [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. This is ridiculous.

12-12-2006, 05:06 AM	#10
Goozman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 693	selch wrote: To add more insult to this nerf: * Fury: Irritating Swarm: Reduces Aggression skill. And their snare AA changed to make their root better which was possibly worst "favored" to give class defining abilities to them. I thought wardens were defensive and debuffing for tanks to keep aggro better was a defensive manuever. That doesn't add any insult to anything... While I agree the change to Wardens is really stupid, there were no changes to Furies to make them better in that patch. They simply added a spell casting skill and added it to all buffs and debuffs that raise or reduce spell casting skills. Irritating swarm is as useless as ever. And whatever u said about the snare and root aa's is wrong lolz. All they did was remove the connection between snare and starnova, and make a connection between root and starnova. So now you can't get Enhance Starnova after getting Snare to rank 3 (it was broken before anyway) __________________

12-12-2006, 05:20 AM	#11
Dragonreal General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,554	mikemcmodmike wrote: Another thing I just realized. Because there's no icon up when you cast cure trauma, there's no way to know if the effect stays up or not. In the end, this will mean the whole line will become useless.... This was the one thing I liked about EoF and I believed fixed Wardens. Without the cure lines you're better off with a crusader for avoidance and mitigation in G1. I don't know.... Vanguard's looking pretty good right about now. This change better not hit live. At least in vanguard druids are considered dps class and not healers... idk about anyone else but having my primary role be to kill crap would solve a fair chunk of the issues I have right now =/

12-12-2006, 05:45 AM	#12
civilgeek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 60	Wow... this is a huge slap in the face as we don't have any worth while buffs once again. 3 hits on a trauma cure? That is absolutly rediculous as for most single mob fights it will stay up a max of 6-10 seconds. If your fighting a group it may last 1 second. SOE needs to rethink this.... LOL this is about the only way they could have made these buffs completely useless. No one wants to continuously spam a buff. If this stays in I hope soe makes the macros so that they can loop. That way I can put the MT on autofollow and go to dinner:smileyvery-happy: Haldir - 70 Warden - Oasis Leader of the Golden Rose of Qeynos __________________

12-12-2006, 05:50 AM	#13
jka General Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 22	Dragonrealms wrote: mikemcmodmike wrote: Another thing I just realized. Because there's no icon up when you cast cure trauma, there's no way to know if the effect stays up or not. In the end, this will mean the whole line will become useless.... This was the one thing I liked about EoF and I believed fixed Wardens. Without the cure lines you're better off with a crusader for avoidance and mitigation in G1. I don't know.... Vanguard's looking pretty good right about now. This change better not hit live. At least in vanguard druids are considered dps class and not healers... idk about anyone else but having my primary role be to kill crap would solve a fair chunk of the issues I have right now =/ So true... so true. Layar

12-12-2006, 05:58 AM	#14
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	There's nothing that enhances furies but what this change does is screw up where we fit into a raid. With the cure line Wardens were hands down the best in G1. Now with the changes we're back to having no spot to fill... Go Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Dirge, Coercer and Palladin ftw now. Have the Palladin put the buff on the MT that gives him a 50% or so to avoid based on the palladin's avoidance. Then pledge of armament on the MT. Epics pretty much ignore all our avoidance buffs atm and sandstorm costs too much power to maintain. The only part of avoidance that isn't [Removed for Content] is block, so have the palladin keep a shield on for the block chance plus he should have extra block chance adornments. You should see your tank avoiding more then anything we can provide. Then with pledge of armament on the tank the MT should be able to hit 6k mitigation which is all you need, everything past that has such horrible returns there's no point. So after the changes there's no point in even spamming cure trauma. With this setup you'll hit 6k mit, avoid more then with a warden in G1. What does the tank lose by not having us in G1?..... well spores and the group hot. Everything else can be cast from outside G1. Iow bye bye group1. Then for dps groups we don't provide good enough buffs. You're better off betraying to fury for agitate and int buffs for extra dps. On top of which you get an extra cure nox... which is always the most important dispell. Nox and elemental > elemental and trauma cure. This change really screws us. We're back to square one, you're better off bringing an extra fury instead of a warden to raids in all circumstances. Btw, about vanguard. Disciples are the closest to a druid. They don't get ports or anything fancy, but they heal through hots, good group heals and have good dps.

12-12-2006, 06:32 AM	#15
Shizzirri Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 440	mikemcmodmike wrote: There's nothing that enhances furies but what this change does is screw up where we fit into a raid. With the cure line Wardens were hands down the best in G1. Now with the changes we're back to having no spot to fill... Go Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Dirge, Coercer and Palladin ftw now. Have the Palladin put the buff on the MT that gives him a 50% or so to avoid based on the palladin's avoidance. Then pledge of armament on the MT. Epics pretty much ignore all our avoidance buffs atm and sandstorm costs too much power to maintain. The only part of avoidance that isn't [Removed for Content] is block, so have the palladin keep a shield on for the block chance plus he should have extra block chance adornments. You should see your tank avoiding more then anything we can provide. Then with pledge of armament on the tank the MT should be able to hit 6k mitigation which is all you need, everything past that has such horrible returns there's no point. So after the changes there's no point in even spamming cure trauma. With this setup you'll hit 6k mit, avoid more then with a warden in G1. What does the tank lose by not having us in G1?..... well spores and the group hot. Everything else can be cast from outside G1. Iow bye bye group1. Then for dps groups we don't provide good enough buffs. You're better off betraying to fury for agitate and int buffs for extra dps. On top of which you get an extra cure nox... which is always the most important dispell. Nox and elemental > elemental and trauma cure. This change really screws us. We're back to square one, you're better off bringing an extra fury instead of a warden to raids in all circumstances. Btw, about vanguard. Disciples are the closest to a druid. They don't get ports or anything fancy, but they heal through hots, good group heals and have good dps. I knew the nerf was coming didn't know to what degree but in all honestly the stat bonuses, at least the physical ones worked best on brawler tanks, and those rarely tank raids (ours does every so often), but with a guard tank in full fabled the physical mit only goes up like 2-3% tops because of the new stat caps etc. And I agree there's no point in spamming cure trauma I didn't sign up to play a warden to spam one [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing spell on the tank, if I wanted to do that i'd be playing a ranger in EQ1 still So I'm only picturing what aoes like searing rot, savage blows, etc will do against these cures now since they hit real fast over a short period of time, and yeah they we're nice against these aoes. So yeah we're left with primative instinct, spores, and sandstorm. So I guess now we have furies who can heal as much as we can, can buff as well as we can, but do twice the dps and us? Yeah that's fair sony! Now do I dare ask when nature's walk is getting fixed because that definetly doesn't work on MOST knockbacks like the spell description says, if it does then Chel'drak, the nightblood named in blight obelisk, the horses in emerald halls, hurricanus, trey'loth, and prince whatever his name is (in EH) all missed out on this one. But on a bright note now I won't feel bad for putting 5 aa's into sow, I can run faster than everyone else out of combat, with certain gear setups, but I'll stop talking about that because I'm sure that's next on the nerf list. As for the "nuke ca" line this one is def not worth it because I'd have to change my entire gear setup since they're based on str and not int (and full aa's in this one < master nukes). Eitherway I still see wardens in the MT group as long as primative instinct buffs weapon skills as much as it does. So I'll stick with what I've said elsewhere, furies for flavor of the month in 2007!

12-12-2006, 07:01 AM	#16
Bad General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	Shizzirri wrote: But on a bright note now I won't feel bad for putting 5 aa's into sow, I can run faster than everyone else out of combat, with certain gear setups, but I'll stop talking about that because I'm sure that's next on the nerf list. Faster than 60% self buffed? I'm curious how you can manage that.

12-12-2006, 08:58 AM	#17
T'Pol Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Wolf Den Posts: 276	I just cant believe it.Thank you SOE :smileymad: __________________

12-12-2006, 09:02 AM	#18
tuli General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 24	Shizzirri wrote: I knew the nerf was coming didn't know to what degree but in all honestly the stat bonuses, at least the physical ones worked best on brawler tanks, and those rarely tank raids (ours does every so often), but with a guard tank in full fabled the physical mit only goes up like 2-3% tops because of the new stat caps etc. I want to correct some issue here, in my brawler 50% mit in group setup, cure trauma 5 points was giving only 2.6% , I can imagine it was much LESS in full fabled plate tanks. That nerf is like a blade turning whole AA board into uttermost useless.

12-12-2006, 09:26 AM	#19
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	The mitigation curve only starts going bad after 6k mitigation. So really once your tank is at 6k mit there's no point in buffing mitigation anymore. We got the tank to 6k and just past it. Now a crusader can do the same thing as us with their mit buff. I forgot about primitive instinct. It's a good buff now, and does help the tank hold aggro. With the aggression skill maybe there's no need for it though. If the tank can hold aggro with a pally in G1 then we're out of there. With us you can't hit 6k mit anymore as the drawback of putting us in G1. Plus from what I've seen sandstorm costs too much power in longer fights so isn't a reason to put us in G1. This is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. What was just our strength with mitigation buffing is now our weakness in the raid picture. This hopefully won't hit live. Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 12-11-2006 08:27 PM

12-12-2006, 09:41 AM	#20
Lunaya Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 125	I hate SOE for this.If Furies do twice the damage we should heal twice the hitpoints.

12-12-2006, 10:31 AM	#21
physht Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 61	I am opposite to this change. It is because AA of Warden dies completely. I want you to delete the line that changes DD into CA, and to make the line that newly strengthens DD.

12-12-2006, 10:41 AM	#22
susanjjacobs Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 16	/betray : ( __________________

12-12-2006, 10:46 AM	#23
Writer Cal Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 700	Well, this sucks. I don't see much point in taking the cures now. Although, on Test right now, Enhance: Verdant Sigh says it expires after 5 hits instead of 3. So I guess the Cures themselves get 3 hits, and Verdant Sigh gets 5. Joy. That ought to last all of half a heartbeat in any situation other than soloing single solo mobs. physht wrote: I want you to delete the line that changes DD into CA, and to make the line that newly strengthens DD. Umm, this would make me very unhappy. __________________ ~Daenee~ Member of the Tom Tobey Fan Club since 2010. Homeshow Designs: Deluxe Seaside Cottage Reckoning Goes Corporate

12-12-2006, 12:20 PM	#24
NogginMush Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	Pretty upset with this nerf, I just wonder what the underlying ulterior motives SOE have, with vanguard coming out in just over a months time, they make this game seem less and less attractive with each patch, are SOE pushing us towards vanguard with a view to them taking it over?? That way they can merge most EQ2 servers and use the ones left over for vanguard?? Little expense for SOE and they'd still have the EQ2 playerbase.. Or am I just being paranoid?? One [Removed for Content] off warden..

12-12-2006, 12:40 PM	#25
Sorano Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 505	The nerf is uncalled for and removes one of the few good buffs wardens get. If they do need to adjust it then change it to expiry after 15 hits or something. Three is just ridiculous. As an aside to Mike, I am puzzled on why you can't get your tank to 6k mit without a pally. Both our raid tanks easily sit at 6.5k mit with just priest buffs. __________________

12-12-2006, 01:39 PM	#26
Maledan Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 59	I can't believe it. I had hoped for some improvements to the warden tree, seeing how inferior it already is. The cure enhancements were the only abilities that one could call 'powerful' to a certain extent. Not overpowered, mind you... with a fabled tank, the benefit was not _that_ great due to the way mitigation works now. Now instead of the much needed improvements we get a major nerf. I really loved playing my warden before EoF, but EoF (along with the other game updates) changed an OK class into what is probably the least desirable priest class right now I can only hope that the devs take another hard look at the priest class balance... it's seriously broken, and I'm really puzzled how they can overlook something so obvious.

12-12-2006, 04:34 PM	#27
HVA Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 31	This is simply terrible :smileysad: It was the only EoF aa-line i kinda liked, and now its broken. Only good thing about this is - i dont need to use time on getting more aa-points. __________________ Louiise/Mountt - Splitpaw

12-12-2006, 04:56 PM	#28
Maledan Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 59	HVA wrote: Only good thing about this is - i dont need to use time on getting more aa-points. Yep... there's no real benefit to gain by grinding AP with my main now. I'll probably spend that time leveling my Fury alt instead. Let's hope the Warden class will get useful again at some point in the future.

12-12-2006, 05:02 PM	#29
Barand General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 358	I sticked for warden since release with good and bad time for usI think this is the last hit for me, if its go live i will betray. There is nothing for us in this expansion and now that fury get root and i even dont have to worry about soloabilityeven the armor class are a joke for wardensure now noone care about us, this one will also go live without a word from a dev, i mean when was the last time a dev spoke here ?6 month ago ? 1 year ? that maybe the last time the think about our raid role too

12-12-2006, 05:16 PM	#30
pootski Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 140	What class do you think whined enough to the devs that they made this change?I can see no other reason.