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Old 12-07-2011, 04:20 AM   #271
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rl_soe wrote:

While we have top of the line hardware running our databases for this kind of thing, and folks dedicated just to keeping it working well, the result of all that took quite a bit longer than we thought it would.

I hear the engineers of you out there (and yes, I know we have many very capable developers in our audience) saying, "But you should have modeled it ahead of time and known how long it would take!". You're absolutely right. We did. Turns out our model was just a tad less than 1:1 scale in some respects. I know, I know, Captain Obvious calling.

THat's what happens when the databases haven't been converted to SQL

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:26 AM   #272
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Nahdian wrote:

I think we all are little disappointed. But if you have been around since launch of the game, like I have. You pretty well know that nothing ever goes as planned.

That's kinda the point in a lot of what I've been saying.. WE should have to "get used to it" or w.e? SOE knows about the screwups as much as we do, why don't they "get used to it" and actually plan ahead for once? Or at the very least, toss us a bone with a free char slot(for BL class) or a double xp weekend.(if not to compensate us for our loss of paid gaming time, then at least to keep people from rageing about it and how bad the company is. Really, how long can they expect us to accept half-arsed appologys for the same repeated mistakes??)

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:26 AM   #273
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[email protected] wrote:

That reminded me, my programming teacher once told me, computers are like really retarted childred.  They will do exactly what you tell them to do, and nothing more.

I always heard of it as, "computers are only as smart as the people that program them."

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:28 AM   #274
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Elomort wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

O dincha know? the updates are coming to us via twitter and facebook, nevermind the fact that these are the OFFICIAL forums. 

I've been following twitter and Isulith has been doing it fairly well in terms of what she is allowed to say but I have to say as a person who has put all facebook IPs and Domain names in my /etc/hosts file pointing to 127.0.0.1 so that this blight of a company cannot get their privacy violating claws into me in any way... I don't get why SOE are using that medium as a prime communications path.

These are the forums. They should post here first.

Brasse really needs to re-evaluate the use of Facebook. They are way too dangerous to trust as a primary source of information.

Facebook and twitter can be checked and used by any cellular phone or mobile device, even those without web browsers and such. The forums cannot. That is why companies use them for their news outlets.

That is why my main's guild has a facebook group. Gonna be late to raid? Send the group a message via text message.

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:31 AM   #275
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[email protected] wrote:

Tigress wrote:

i had to delete your reply bc you had so much extra garbage in there, the only way to clean it up was to delete it all.

your reply was non-applicable to my post.  while i'm trying REALLY hard to not be annoyed at you, i dont appreciate your assumption and twisting of my comment.

i was replying directly to the comment that they (the EQ2 team) are regularly updating twitter & disease infected facebook.  so i will say it again, NO, i didn't freaking know that they were doing it & they should be updating THEIR forums and not those.  THEIR forum needs to come first, not as an afterthought.  we've had three updates here.  how many on the virus/spyware infected mediums of the internet?  from what i read in this thread, lots.  it should be the other way around.  that's my complaint & i'm sticking to it.

This is 100% spot on and to all the other posters that are saying they posted it here too you don't get it.

Approximately 1PM EST today we were told there were unforseen problems that were taking longer than expected and that we would be kept updated, this was made by Isulith 4 hours later with not one peep from anyone at SOE here except for that joke of an announcement from everyones favorite Executive Producer, the one that thinks of portions of its userbase as 'TROLLS' if they don't back his every move. Then finally it was updated here and people posted tweets that had been being made throughout the afternoon, postings to facebook etc whatever.

I almost NEVER agree with Tigress but I have already said this today.

THIS IS THE OFFICIAL SITE, THIS IS WHERE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO AND FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON.

Their facebook page and twitter feeds are also "official" and they use those primarily for the reasons I outlined in my last post.

Chill. Out.  You sound like you're gonna have an anxiety attack. They make prescription pills for that.

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:33 AM   #276
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Felshades wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

That reminded me, my programming teacher once told me, computers are like really retarted childred.  They will do exactly what you tell them to do, and nothing more.

I always heard of it as, "computers are only as smart as the people that program them."

that works too haha

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:39 AM   #277
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Felshades wrote:

Elomort wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

O dincha know? the updates are coming to us via twitter and facebook, nevermind the fact that these are the OFFICIAL forums.

I've been following twitter and Isulith has been doing it fairly well in terms of what she is allowed to say but I have to say as a person who has put all facebook IPs and Domain names in my /etc/hosts file pointing to 127.0.0.1 so that this blight of a company cannot get their privacy violating claws into me in any way... I don't get why SOE are using that medium as a prime communications path.

These are the forums. They should post here first.

Brasse really needs to re-evaluate the use of Facebook. They are way too dangerous to trust as a primary source of information.

Facebook and twitter can be checked and used by any cellular phone or mobile device, even those without web browsers and such. The forums cannot. That is why companies use them for their news outlets.

That is why my main's guild has a facebook group. Gonna be late to raid? Send the group a message via text message.

I can read and post on these forums on my Blackberry. Heck, I can read these forums on my old Motorola KRZR phone. These forums can be access by virtually any mobile device on the planet via the Opera Mobile browser. I'd say that's pretty good coverage.

I see no need for SOE, a division of Sony, to use third party applications for anything more than a secondary medium of communication between themselves and their target audience, let alone their customers.

If you want to communicate with your friends about a game, feel free to use whatever you like. For a company to communicate with its customers, it should be doing so in its own secured environment.

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:51 AM   #278
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Seriously, that we have to use facebook and twitter to get any kind of information on this when these forums are fully functional but contain absolutely no official info is beyond stupid.  I don't subscribe to facebook and twitter for a reason.  I do however subscribe to SOE and that includes the use of the forums, which apparently the SOE team forgot they should use to pass on info.  

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:51 AM   #279
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I appreciate the time taken to explain what is going. One of the most aggravating things about SOE to date has been the lack of communication and then when people get fed up and start complaining, tart responses follow. So, a vast improvement for which I thank you.

I am now forced, for the second day in a row, to do some jobs - like writing Christmas cards!

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Old 12-07-2011, 04:54 AM   #280
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apwyork wrote:

Seriously, that we have to use facebook and twitter to get any kind of information on this when these forums are fully functional but contain absolutely no official info is beyond stupid.  I don't subscribe to facebook and twitter for a reason.  I do however subscribe to SOE and that includes the use of the forums, which apparently the SOE team forgot they should use to pass on info.  

I don't know where you are getting that there is NOTHING HERE.  There is an official announcments section up at the top, where they have given out several announcments and brasse has also delivered many messages that were also delivered via facebook in this very thread.

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:10 AM   #281
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I love these kind of posts when updates/releases/conversions are done because of all of the negative comments that are made to the devs/admin staff that are working flat out to make everything good before bringing servers back online...

All the comment like 'Oh no I cant play my game for a day or two' or 'Why didnt they test this beforehand' and my favourite 'I pay good money for this piece of crap and I cant play it'...

Seriously....

I have an idea, why not actually go outside, or play something else for the down time and let the devs do what they are paid to do (and who do a brilliant job)... I would like to see all you trolls do a better job...

I have been thru F2P conversions/new patches with other MMO's and what have I done when there is downtime, I have played something else or actually did something useful, instead of just b***hing on forums about how let down I feel...

GET A LIFE ALL YOU HATERS... why not try and contribute to society in a constructive way for a change..

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:19 AM   #282
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alot of us have been through downtimes similar to this, albeit not quite so drastic, where what we get for updates is

~working hard be up soon.

4-6 hours later

~unexpected problems, be up soon.

Fact of the matter is, even getting just THAT kind of an update was a big deal.  As any updates have been rather rare in the past.  We're used to getting the run around, and alot of being led along with alot of smoke up our a**es.  Anger and hostility has become rather common place, and if you've looked around, there has been more then a few of us who have actually backed down and applauded the taking of responsibility and the updates given.  The primary gripe at this point has been having to go to social media outlets to remain up to date on whats going on rather then being able to follow HERE, in the EQ2 OFFICIAL FORUMS. Fact is, updates have been issued via FB and Twitter, and as what seems like an hours later after thought, updates were finally posted here again.

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:23 AM   #283
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rl_soe wrote:

Hi folks, this is Rich Lawrence, CTO with SOE. Some of you probably remember me from original Planetside as "Twist". TR rules, but I digress.

*snip*

Thank you very much. An apology means more than you could ever imagine, atleast to me, even though this wasn't really anything you needed to apologize about.

Anyways I understand that this is harder on you guys than it is on us, good luck tomorrow and keep up the good work.

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:23 AM   #284
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lat00ukeq wrote:

I love these kind of posts when updates/releases/conversions are done because of all of the negative comments that are made to the devs/admin staff that are working flat out to make everything good before bringing servers back online...

All the comment like 'Oh no I cant play my game for a day or two' or 'Why didnt they test this beforehand' and my favourite 'I pay good money for this piece of crap and I cant play it'...

Seriously....

I have an idea, why not actually go outside, or play something else for the down time and let the devs do what they are paid to do (and who do a brilliant job)... I would like to see all you trolls do a better job...

I have been thru F2P conversions/new patches with other MMO's and what have I done when there is downtime, I have played something else or actually did something useful, instead of just b***hing on forums about how let down I feel...

GET A LIFE ALL YOU HATERS... why not try and contribute to society in a constructive way for a change..

LOL. There's the first one. Care to prove Godwin's Law next? 

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:25 AM   #285
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Sadly i feel as we move forward twitter and FB will take over as the "mouthpeice" of MMO's not just this one

Its a bit of a pain as i have no account on either service

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:27 AM   #286
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[email protected] wrote:

lat00ukeq wrote:

I love these kind of posts when updates/releases/conversions are done because of all of the negative comments that are made to the devs/admin staff that are working flat out to make everything good before bringing servers back online...

All the comment like 'Oh no I cant play my game for a day or two' or 'Why didnt they test this beforehand' and my favourite 'I pay good money for this piece of crap and I cant play it'...

Seriously....

I have an idea, why not actually go outside, or play something else for the down time and let the devs do what they are paid to do (and who do a brilliant job)... I would like to see all you trolls do a better job...

I have been thru F2P conversions/new patches with other MMO's and what have I done when there is downtime, I have played something else or actually did something useful, instead of just b***hing on forums about how let down I feel...

GET A LIFE ALL YOU HATERS... why not try and contribute to society in a constructive way for a change..

LOL. There's the first one. Care to prove Godwin's Law next? 

hate to be the party crasher, but if you read through older pages in this post and others....this is FAR from the first.  It actually sounds like it was copy/pasted from other posts, or at the least copied real close from other posts of the same nature.

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:30 AM   #287
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[email protected] wrote:

lat00ukeq wrote:

I love these kind of posts when updates/releases/conversions are done because of all of the negative comments that are made to the devs/admin staff that are working flat out to make everything good before bringing servers back online...

All the comment like 'Oh no I cant play my game for a day or two' or 'Why didnt they test this beforehand' and my favourite 'I pay good money for this piece of crap and I cant play it'...

Seriously....

I have an idea, why not actually go outside, or play something else for the down time and let the devs do what they are paid to do (and who do a brilliant job)... I would like to see all you trolls do a better job...

I have been thru F2P conversions/new patches with other MMO's and what have I done when there is downtime, I have played something else or actually did something useful, instead of just b***hing on forums about how let down I feel...

GET A LIFE ALL YOU HATERS... why not try and contribute to society in a constructive way for a change..

LOL. There's the first one. Care to prove Godwin's Law next? 

Godwin's law is kind of a dumb idea since it is self evident that eventually as a thread grows infinetly long the probability of ANYTHING being mentioned will increase to 1.   "the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses" would be true for any statement.  Not just a refrence involving Hitler or [email protected] (censored lol).

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:38 AM   #288
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I agree I'd like the game fixed and working properly from the outset as well but the way this was done was just appalling.  I'd much rather you told me the game woule be down for 24hrs and it be down for less, than you tell me it be down for 12 hrs and me sitting here expectantly waiting only to get another message at the 16hr mark saying oh 2 more hrs then at the 18hr mark say ohhh we'll be back in the morning to fix it and get it up for you ASAP after that.  SoE talked up this xpac so much and joked around about how many people would be taking the day off to play on launch day and look how launch day happened...another failed delivery. Same kinda thing after the hack too rather than say it'll be a week or two roght from day one, they fed updates once a day saying sorry guys try again tomorrow - that got old very quickly.

I have personaly never really been disappointed with SoE before now I just saw the previous mistakes that were made as opportunites to get it right the first time like many of you in this column are saying but fact is this is a pattern of failed delivery now with SoE that has disgruntled a previously quite happy paying customer at a time when SoE can afford to upset their funding the least.  I am sick of hearing apologies from you, just get it right the first time.  Funny how right in the middle of the extended downtime at around the 18hr mark though, despite the servers being locked and the websites all being down they still managed to charge me for the xpac...way to go Sony fix the pocket first before the customer cancels their order...

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:46 AM   #289
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(( People love to moan, whine and complain at everything, and this thread is packed full of that. Once someone writes four or more paragraphs of pure moaning, no wonder SOE do not reply to that - I wouldn't either.

SOE, just keep us updated please - here on the forums, not on "social media" that many do not even use.

Thanks. ))

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Old 12-07-2011, 05:59 AM   #290
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They're not gonna reply cos they went home for the night...jussayin.

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:02 AM   #291
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[email protected] wrote:

They're not gonna reply cos they went home for the night...jussayin.

The community people went home (Forums people and guys who post on facebook etc.) but as far as we know the people actually doing the developement and implementation are still working.  Although it wouldn't be too surprising if they went home to sleep... 16 hours straight of working is hard for most people.

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:03 AM   #292
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soon

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:05 AM   #293
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the community folks did at any rate, but the devs/gm's/etc are workin all night to get the game back up and running for us.  as of now, about 5 more hours before they are back in, and in a meeting or something, figure probably 6 hours before they post an update. 

Atleast they have been a bit more update friendly then in the past, and responsibility for it getting fubared on account of bad planning was taken.  Means alot to me and many others that they actually have done this for a change.  For me personally it went a long way in easing my being upset about the continued down time, including the overnight bit.

I give em props, and am hopeful for a brighter future with the EQ2 devs and community relations.

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:13 AM   #294
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

alot of us have been through downtimes similar to this, albeit not quite so drastic, where what we get for updates is

~working hard be up soon.

4-6 hours later

~unexpected problems, be up soon.

I recall the DoV release so well. We had 2 weeks of the server having 45 minute zones (hence the first stanza in my signature line), 2 to 3 crashes an hour and very little communications from SOE.

This time round it's a very smooth upgrade compared to the hell that was DoV.

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:24 AM   #295
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skuext wrote:

soon

LMFAO!!!!

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:30 AM   #296
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Thank you for the very prcise explanation post. It was much appreciated.

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:40 AM   #297
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

They're not gonna reply cos they went home for the night...jussayin.

The community people went home (Forums people and guys who post on facebook etc.) but as far as we know the people actually doing the developement and implementation are still working.  Although it wouldn't be too surprising if they went home to sleep... 16 hours straight of working is hard for most people.

Yeah and they probably worked 12hrs a day for the last week leading up to launch as well just so they could make launch as promised, so having this happen today I'd bet they have in fact gone home and are not working overnight to be back at 7am to fix else they be drooling with their faces in the keyboard getting nothing done anyway.  Which takes me back to my point - I'd rather they said the downtime was 24hrs or 48hrs or delay launch altogether if it meant they had it up and running properly in the first place.   This "soon" business just gets very old and I am tired of hearing it.

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:47 AM   #298
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good god people.. Havent any of you trolls ever worked at a job that involved anything complicated? I used to build houses and I was very very good at it. But No matter how experienced my crew, my subcontractors and myself were, and no matter how much planning and checking and rechecking we did, Stuff still went wrong.

I don't know a thing about coding, how to merge accounts or any of that stuff, but common sense just by experiencing all the content and wonderful things that makes us all so anxious to play(both ftp and otherwise) is exactly what makes complicated.. Just relax, go outside, take a walk, play with your kids, cook a real meal, go christmas shopping, visit with your family or even ..gasp.. go look at that bright thing in the sky.. ( you know.. its called the sun..)

It's a game, its not life or death and you have people who are probably exhausted  working their tails off to get us all the goodies. I am sure they are under incredible pressure and I fully expect that will still be glitches to iron out..

Just give them a break and say thank you

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:51 AM   #299
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[email protected] wrote:

Just give them a break and say thank you

People pay to have access, which they don't have during downtimes, and extended downtimes just makes it worse.

If anything SoE should say "Sorry and thank you", since it's we that is paying them, not the other way around...

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:53 AM   #300
chelanfarsight

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rl_soe wrote:

Hi folks, this is Rich Lawrence, CTO with SOE. Some of you probably remember me from original Planetside as "Twist". TR rules, but I digress.

I must apologize for the extended down time of EQ2 while we get everything in order for free to play. Obviously we didn't anticipate it being this long. I know how important it is for the game to be available when you want to play, and what it means to miss a raid you were looking forward to, or check out new features. In this case the issues that are keeping you from playing are under my watch, so I need to say it: I'm sorry. I value my game time as well when I can get it, and I know how you feel.

EQ2 is a great product with a long history for us, and part of the reason we are taking so long on this update is because of that. Let me explain a bit. In order for everyone that played in the past or currently to get the best experience when logging in on the first day of free to play, there were many changes that had to be made in data to represent all of the features those players (past or present) were entitled to, plus new goodies, and the merge of what amounts to two different products in a business sense (EQ2 and EQ2X). This is a lot of accounts - millions - and a lot of 'business rule' complexity. While we have top of the line hardware running our databases for this kind of thing, and folks dedicated just to keeping it working well, the result of all that took quite a bit longer than we thought it would.

I hear the engineers of you out there (and yes, I know we have many very capable developers in our audience) saying, "But you should have modeled it ahead of time and known how long it would take!". You're absolutely right. We did. Turns out our model was just a tad less than 1:1 scale in some respects. I know, I know, Captain Obvious calling.

In the end we realized two things as the maintenance progressed - that this was going to take much longer than we thought it would, and correspondingly the results would be not as well tested as they should be before release. For instance, there was a risk that some out of those millions might not end up with the right race packs or character slots. In the end, we decided it was best to extend the maintenance through the night so we could do a better job of checking that kind of thing.

Please understand that we don't do this casually or think that it's a lack of dedication. Most of the key people involved in this publish, on the game team and our platform side, have been here very long days and every day leading up to this. I just had to tell some folks that had been here for 30+ hours to go get some sleep. If there was any way I thought we could be certain you'd be able to play with everything correct tonight, we would have done that.

I'm committed to changing how we do this type of operation going forward so that it has much less visible impact on you the players - we will trade more back end prep time and resources against less publish downtime, basically. I do hope everybody enjoys the massive effort the game team has put into this release. I'll see you online tomorrow.

wanted to personally thank the Red here for his candor and forthrightness. this makes the wait that much more bearable for me. information is all most of us typically want. being left in the dark is absurd. we're not looking for promises or vague hopeful hints. just the facts on what's wrong and maybe why.

i hope that this signals a turn in SoE's typical community dealings where so often we are left in the dark concerning things like this.

again, no promises, or hints of hope, its just nice to be told X is happening because Y occurred, etc.

thank you Red for your post. i rest at ease now knowing that someone cared enough to inform us in a realistic and adult manner.

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