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Old 11-05-2006, 10:06 PM   #91
Killerbee3000

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kythik wrote:    With plenty of ways to change AR the dev team takes the worst possible route.  They take one of the class defining skills that brigand have and make it completely useless.  Anything based on a proc takes away any shred of skill using it.  So now it is a luck factor and you get it what maybe 1-2 times a minute randomly.  So you get it for 20 seconds every minute but you have no control on it.  Honestly if they wanted to take away the always on off AR they could have made it a 20sec duration with  10 sec reuse, or something.  That way you would have to time it.  not just put it up and forget about it.If the brigand community will not put up with these changes i suggest a few things.  1)  Do not let this thread die, keep it going until stuff gets changed.2)  Last time they did this we PM'd the devs, it worked so do it again3)  Keep PM'ing the devs until it gets changed.I would suggest PM'ing lockeye, Gallenite, and Dymus about this change and how you feel about it.  Make sure you keep the comments clean.  Granted i know lockeye is going to edit this post and take out the pming part....

first off... welcome to reality...warlocks got their nerf  into oblivion in lu 13...troubadours got nerfed in lu 24....brigands get nerfed with eof release....in all 3 cases we are talking about class defining ability's that where nerfed into complete useless crap.its not like it was a emergency fix a few days after they received them.... it was in all 3 cases several months ago that they received the stuff that got nerfed.soe really needs to test changes more intensive and longer before they go to live servers, so that there will be no need to butcher certain classes several monthes after they received some new ability.
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Old 11-05-2006, 10:59 PM   #92
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Okay, so let me get this straight....   The AE may or may not hit me, so ...   a class that has little to zero ranged ability and already does not do massive amounts of DPS has to go ranged?THAT IS F'ING STOOPID!   our DPS is going to drop to like 500 or less....   Thoes mobs with two AE's , even lower...  The core of a brigand is being sneaky and underhanded, its bad enought we can no longer sneak past everything (how dumb is that) but now we have to run away like a ranja without a bow....SONY... pull your head out of your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and make the class function like, well... like you named it.
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Old 11-05-2006, 11:09 PM   #93
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First off, for all those who say our dps won't get hit hard please learn to play the class and open up a parser because you have no [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing clue how the class works so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] now.  Over half our dps comes from autoattack so when we'll have to joust our dps will drop like a rock no matter which CAs you cast. 

I think the change sucks, the only thing that sucks more is guilds who used 3+ brigands to trivialize content.  That's what made the change necessary.  It was necessary but the change resulted in getting it too nurfed.  As a proc with 5 points into the proc AA it won't be up long enough to make it useful.

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Old 11-05-2006, 11:23 PM   #94
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Way to go SOE. /golfclapI love my brigand as it is. To lower our already lower DPS (compared to other scouts except bards) is wrong SMILEY I can deal with the lesser DPS if the tradeoff is being able to constantly debuff. Jousting AOEs is going to make it harder to debuff and lower DPS even more. That's not much to bring to the table SMILEY If I suck at DPS and debuffing, what use is it to keep playing a brigand? Bards at least have utility buffs for the other classes./plead SOE, please don't nerf AR like this!!!!! /cry /beg :smileysad: Please don't kill our class off!LU13 drove alot of people away from the game. These upcoming changes to alot of classes may well do that again. You are already going to lose alot of subscribers with Vanguard coming out. A combination of the 2 may be the dagger in the heart...

Message Edited by shirpa on 11-05-2006 11:25 AM

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Old 11-05-2006, 11:35 PM   #95
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Magus_Blue wrote:


TerriBlades wrote:


PowertothePeople wrote:
Well, guess I wont buy EoF then and look around till some other game comes along.
 
O, Brigs are taken on raids for Dispatch, and to say that they arent taken on raids because of AoE immune is just stupid. There are guilds out there that use 5 to 6 Brigands just for that reason so they can keep Dispatch up. Now yes thats wrong, dont blame the class blame teh guild that cant do anything without them.
 
I mean I could make a Ranger or Caster to become AoE immune.

Message Edited by PowertothePeople on 11-05-2006 02:00 AM

Message Edited by PowertothePeople on 11-05-2006 02:03 AM


Im going to assume by this second edit that you mean we can stand at 35m?

Get a clue, any ranger standing at 35m sucks! All good rangers know that to max their dps they have to be within 5m, but I wouldnt expect you to understand that. The casters I know dont stand at max cast either. You'll really have to do better then that.




Excuse me, but to say that's the same as doing melee dps is pretty dumb.

You can hop your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] back while procing off autoattack and land your ranged CA's while waiting for AE to come out.  Brigand have 1 crappy ranged CA and must be at melee range for any others, and for autoattacking.  Completely [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing different situation.

 




No, I'm not saying rangers do all their DPS from range, just 80% of it. You dont have to be within melee range to do decent DPS as a ranger and can AVOID THE AoE which helps the healers out without scarifacing much at all, and if your saying that Brigs can out DPS a ranger at range then you need to get a clue. Now, rangers SHOULD beable to do this because of the class, I have no problem with this.

If your casters arent standing at max range during an encounter with AoE and are getting hit with it, then you shouldnt be playing with them.

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Old 11-05-2006, 11:39 PM   #96
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ar change is rather crappy, but for me a different reason i really liked having the 14% hate gain for when i wanted to play tank for a few guildies. and when i did manage to get out to a raid it was realy nice to have up.

the funny part is what is happening with the monk aa's :

26.  Dodge -- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  5 -- Ranks:  1 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 15 points in Body
Allows the monk to automatically dodge the next melee attack and any non-direct area effect abilities within the next few seconds.  This disable the monk's autoattack and use of abilities while in effect

  • Duration: 5.0 10.0 seconds
  • Prevents AOE (except when direct)
  • Dazes caster
  • Stifles caster
  • Caster will Dodge 100% of incoming attacks
  • Dispelled when target receives hostile action
  • Epic targets gain an immunity to Stifle and Daze effects of 15.0 30.0 seconds and duration is reduced to 1.7 3.3 seconds

 

25.  Evade -- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  5 -- Ranks:  1 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 15 points in Awareness
Reduces the target's hate towards the monk

  • Decreases Threat to target by 661-1102

11.  Alternate:  Mongoose Stance -- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 6 or 7 @ rank 3
As an alternative to Dragon Stance, this stance has a chance of refucing the target's hate towards the monk on a successful strike

  • On a successful strike this spell has a higher than normal 50% chance to cast Mongoose Dodge on target of attack.  If a melee attack is used, only the primary weapon can trigger this effect.
    • Decreases Threat to target by 98

 

lol guess everyone is gettin some kinda advoid aoe's these days

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Old 11-05-2006, 11:48 PM   #97
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Not really a post in response to anything in particular, but rather an experience I just had doing a Lab trash run. 

First, I know I am a little low for this zone, but running with the guild now for a few runs here has met with success (imho).

The last time we made this run, I somehow screwed myself on the pull and gained aggro, immediatly was one-shotted...ok, np it happens.  Local healer rezi's me and its back into the fray.  HOWEVER, I somehow managed to forget to put AR buff on.  I will tell you, I was gettting hammered and began to joust the AE's with the others.  This did manage to keep me alive, mostly..but when the fight was over I looked at the parse.  Two things were VERY apparent: 

1. The overall Raid DPS was much, much lower..incl our assassin's  who usually has a sick parse leaving me jealous..lol

2.  My parse was abysmal, at best.

I did re-check all buffs before the next pull, found the AR was down, and corrected the situation.  The next fights were business as usual....and resulted in my very first Relic piece (yay, me)

The long and short of this is, AR is needed...nerfing it doesnt just change how we play...but causes EVERYONE to re-evaluate...that just doesnt seem balanced or fair IMHO.

Thanks for bearing with my long winded story...Play On..

 

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Old 11-05-2006, 11:58 PM   #98
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kythik wrote:
    With plenty of ways to change AR the dev team takes the worst possible route.  They take one of the class defining skills that brigand have and make it completely useless.  Anything based on a proc takes away any shred of skill using it.  So now it is a luck factor and you get it what maybe 1-2 times a minute randomly.  So you get it for 20 seconds every minute but you have no control on it.  Honestly if they wanted to take away the always on off AR they could have made it a 20sec duration with  10 sec reuse, or something.  That way you would have to time it.  not just put it up and forget about it.

If the brigand community will not put up with these changes i suggest a few things. 

1)  Do not let this thread die, keep it going until stuff gets changed.
2)  Last time they did this we PM'd the devs, it worked so do it again
3)  Keep PM'ing the devs until it gets changed.

I would suggest PM'ing lockeye, Gallenite, and Dymus about this change and how you feel about it.  Make sure you keep the comments clean.  Granted i know lockeye is going to edit this post and take out the pming part....



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Old 11-06-2006, 02:52 AM   #99
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Magus_Blue wrote:


Neue Regel wrote:
The funny thing is, I dont know many other skills that have been under constant review and changes like AR has.  Every single expansion and sometimes between expansions, soe decides to play with this skill over and over.  Why would it be ok in T6 and T7 but now all of a sudden it is too overpowered?  I doubt a handfull of raid mobs generated this change!
 
I dont agree with this change, nor did I agree with the last change.  We made enough noise the last time they nerfed AR hard to have them adjust some things so that it was at least manageable.  But again you guys have made the skill virtually useless...just like the last time.
 
Gonna need to have an extra healer in my group just to keep me up so that debuffs can be landed.
 
And again, like I have said before...remember not only does this effect the brigands dps, it effects the entire raid's dps.  Grats to all the haters, you finally got your way.



It sounds from Dymus that it's due to the mechanics change.  Since most AE's are ones we'll be able to fight through with some decent resist (or at least that's what it sounds like), AR is unnecessary there... And for the tougher mobs like Chel'drak, Matron, or equivalents in the expansion, they probably don't want these encounters being trivialized by raids dropping 5 brigands in there.  They actually want the tough encounters to be tough.. for everyone.  Part of that is dealing with AE.


If we can fight through them with decent resists, then there was no need to change AR. 

If they are planning for more AE encounters and they are worrying about 5+ brigands in a raid trivialising their content.. get off your damnable thumbs and learn how to code/make truly challenging encounters instead of relying on removing abilities from players as this does nothing but engender hostility and disloyalty in your long term player base.

It was an ill conceived change and should not have been made.

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Old 11-06-2006, 03:42 AM   #100
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if people actually read the devs response to the AR changes look at what he said about matron/chel drak type AEs. with the expansion orange mobs are being made easier, and thier AEs are being lessened so they dont one shot all but the tank.its one small change in a greater scheme of changes, meaning the entire stats revamp may just mean AR is relativly redudent as AEs will be able to be tanked if your resists are up, EVEN matron style ones. Just wait till its out, if you find your DPS drops horribly AND you are an experience brigand (not one of these guys who thinks AR is class defining) then maybe its cause for concern, but till then, i suggest harvesting a few moonstones
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Old 11-06-2006, 04:43 AM   #101
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Ni7r0kill32 wrote:


TerriBlades wrote:


I hate to be the one that breaks this to you, but I do play a brigand.... and yes.. I do raid with it.... next.

Then maybe it is time for you to see how this spell is going to be used in KoS becuase right now, it worthless we can not know for sure when it will be up, or if it will still be up when aoe is going to hit. Making it a PITA to see it.

Easy enough, I'll just play like every other class and joust if need be. More then likely I'll never us AR

As for your ranged attack, yea its [Removed for Content], but it can be used on the move... Ask a ranger how many ranged attacks they can use on the move.

So, do you know on my berserker i can run and shoot my bow and do 4k damage every 7seconds? OO ya, thats right brigands ranged are worthless, the only good thing it is for is soloing. The attack all together may do 2k.

Then get a bow like Sarnak if you want to do 4k every 8s.

Just how many mobs have AEs that you need to joust? Seriously? The AR nerf is not the gloom and doom that so many of you are making it out to be. Okay, sure, you're going to have to joust a few AEs... your DPS might suffer a bit, but its not going to be a serious as you make it out to be.

Whole cares about most mobs, but mobs like Chel'Drak and Matron, ya, have fun staying in while those aoe's hit. Like to see how many you last and how long your raid takes to kill it now with no brigs in there.

Its been said, they are changing the way AEs one shot players. Thats what part of the revamp was about.

I love the last highlighted comment. You sir, truely do not have a clue what you are talking about. But as long as you are talking about class defining skills, lets talk about the brigand oh... Ummm let me think.. oh yea.. its prolly called DISPATCH! <-- pretty powerful debuff there.  Rake and Devit <-- well look at that. Whats the recast on that? 1m? How long do those stay on? 1m 12s? hmmm yeah.. lets not forget that each one of those debuffs all deal damage. Out of all the Brigand debuffs, only one doesnt deal damage. How many debuffs expire before the reuse timer is up? Disptach.... ummm... anything else? You can still keep the mob fully debuffs, thus you can still "do your job". Brigands arent taken on raids for thier uber DPS, and certainly not for the fact that they have AOE immunity.

Rake has been in the game since 20 so that is nothing new and Devitalize has been in the game since lvl 60, while these are bolth valueable skills, it is no where near the value to us as AR. The debuff timers there are 2 or 3 that have same recast or lower duration then recast. Sry for that error last night, was well, lets not talk about it... just know i couldn't read correctly SMILEY However alot of guilds like brigands becuase they can deal a descent amount of dps, and debuff alot bringing the total raid DPS up. However i think your failing to see how AR makes our dps steady and basically what gives us our dps. Right now I can just see that most brigands are going to be trying to make up for lost dps by spamming everything they have when they are in and thus pulling aggro...... uttt oo.... at least AR doesn't have a hate gain anymore. I am not sure what you are parsing, and what your guildmates parse, but in everysingle parse from guilds on my server usually Brigands are in the top 5 for dps. So saying they are not brought for dps is a lie as well.

Im sorry, but a brigand would never make the top five in one of our raids. Not even pushing 1.5k.

Pulling agro off the tank? Get a better tank. I know for a fact I can spam all of my CAs if I wanted and never pull agro off out MT and thats starting with Dispatch, Rake, Devit and Double Up.

Heres a tip for ya though.. if you do find that you'll have to joust a mob, stab & disembowel it before you joust out so your dps doesnt suffer as big a hit. The nerf to AR sucks, nerfs in general suck, and I can understand you being upset at the change. Like I said, I think turning into a proc is lame, and I would have like to have seen it more in the players control, but its not the end of the world. You'll adapt and move on.

I really don't care that is changing my dps, i really don't care that i have to look for a stupid icon to know if have to joust. I just a spell that i can use, i know my guildmates are going to be able to pick up dps that i am loosing someway or another.

If this isnt an issue, then the AR changes shouldnt be an issue.

Now Ni7r0k, Ive hear alot of crying from you, but I have not heard one thing explaining how changing AR is "breaking" you.

Its breaking me becuase it was the coolest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing ability ever! Also our dps will go down and no matter what you say, our debuffs are never going to be up the entire time now. I don't care what mob your if you have to joust it now they are going to have a aoe that will eventually land when your debuffs are expiring, and lets no forget mobs that automatically dispell debuffs.

The fact that it was the "coolest" ablitiy ever is part of the reason its getting nerfed, that and its not needed anymore.

If you cant keep a mob fully debuffed while jousting, Im going to suggest you pick another class. Obviously you have little to no clue on the debuffs, the durations, and the reuse timers... stop spaming CAs as the come up and learn what they do. 




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Old 11-06-2006, 04:49 AM   #102
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PowertothePeople wrote:


No, I'm not saying rangers do all their DPS from range, just 80% of it. You dont have to be within melee range to do decent DPS as a ranger and can AVOID THE AoE which helps the healers out without scarifacing much at all, and if your saying that Brigs can out DPS a ranger at range then you need to get a clue. Now, rangers SHOULD beable to do this because of the class, I have no problem with this.

If your casters arent standing at max range during an encounter with AoE and are getting hit with it, then you shouldnt be playing with them.




Do you raid at all? Maybe you just dont raid with rangers? Rangers dont "avoid AEs" and even if we did, this would not help healers. Im sure you've heard of group heals? So unless the whole group is made up of  AE Immune brigand, healers are going to use their group heals.

Mind showing me where I said anything at all about brigands out dpsing rangers? Be it ranged or melee? I clearly said that brigs have one crappy ranged attack, but I guess you're just posting to post.

If your casters arent making use off all their skills and are standing outside AE range, might I suggest you find other casters to play with.

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Old 11-06-2006, 05:01 AM   #103
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Harvash wrote:

The long and short of this is, AR is needed...nerfing it doesnt just change how we play...but causes EVERYONE to re-evaluate...that just doesnt seem balanced or fair IMHO.

Thanks for bearing with my long winded story...Play On..


I don't think most people really understand how much this is going to lower our dps and the OVERALL raid dps. Even if you say we can debuff while jousting, it is oging to be half [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'d.
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Old 11-06-2006, 05:15 AM   #104
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TerriBlades wrote:

Ni7r0kill32 wrote:

TerriBlades wrote:

Easy enough, I'll just play like every other class and joust if need be. More then likely I'll never us AR

Then they need to give us a new ability so that one of ancient teachings isn't worthless IMHO.

Then get a bow like Sarnak if you want to do 4k every 8s.

Why should i change the weapons on have on my toon another time becuase sony can not make up their mind on [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]? And your a ranger of course you like bows. Just go back to being a ranger, i bet your better at it.

Its been said, they are changing the way AEs one shot players. Thats what part of the revamp was about.I guarentee that aoe's will still own most poeople even with resists, and if this ability is no longer needed then give us a new CA to replace it, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that would make me alot happier then the fubared spell we have now.

Im sorry, but a brigand would never make the top five in one of our raids. Not even pushing 1.5k.

All I am going to say is 1.5k dps?

Pulling agro off the tank? Get a better tank. I know for a fact I can spam all of my CAs if I wanted and never pull agro off out MT and thats starting with Dispatch, Rake, Devit and Double Up.

I never pull aggro of my tank, he is a great tank however i know for alot of guilds brigands pulling aggro is a huge problem.

If this isnt an issue, then the AR changes shouldnt be an issue.I really do not care that my dps is being lowered, even while riad dps being lowered becuase of this i know my guildmates will pick up the slack, but is the fact that it seems instead of bringing more and more to the table each expansion we are bringing less. Also our debuffs do less now, so we are nerfed there to.

Now Ni7r0k, Ive hear alot of crying from you, but I have not heard one thing explaining how changing AR is "breaking" you.

Its breaking me becuase it was the coolest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing ability ever! Also our dps will go down and no matter what you say, our debuffs are never going to be up the entire time now. I don't care what mob your if you have to joust it now they are going to have a aoe that will eventually land when your debuffs are expiring, and lets no forget mobs that automatically dispell debuffs.

The fact that it was the "coolest" ablitiy ever is part of the reason its getting nerfed, that and its not needed anymore.

If you cant keep a mob fully debuffed while jousting, Im going to suggest you pick another class. Obviously you have little to no clue on the debuffs, the durations, and the reuse timers... stop spaming CAs as the come up and learn what they do.

Haha learn2play huh, i bet you are one of those poeple who say rangers are the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and Coorslander is the perfect mob for you and thats all you need when assasins out dps you all the time. I don't care who you are how good of a god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ranger you are a good assasin will out dps you. I really find it funy your telling me this when obviously you do not realize how big of a nerf this is, maybe you have never seen parses to look at how often your short recast debuffs are hitting. Let me ask you, Have you ever? do you know how to read a parse?



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Old 11-06-2006, 05:43 AM   #105
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Ni7r0kill32 wrote:


TerriBlades wrote:


Ni7r0kill32 wrote:


TerriBlades wrote:



Easy enough, I'll just play like every other class and joust if need be. More then likely I'll never us AR

Then they need to give us a new ability so that one of ancient teachings isn't worthless IMHO.

Why should they do this? Stream of Arrows, and Thorny Trap were both changed for rangers making them just as useless an ancient teaching as AR is going to be for Brigands.

Then get a bow like Sarnak if you want to do 4k every 8s.

Why should i change the weapons on have on my toon another time becuase sony can not make up their mind on [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]? And your a ranger of course you like bows. Just go back to being a ranger, i bet your better at it.

While you shouldnt have to, but you are the one that brought up how much damage a plate tank could do with a bow. If you like the damage from the bow, use it. Otherwise stop dragging other classes into this.

Its been said, they are changing the way AEs one shot players. Thats what part of the revamp was about.
I guarentee that aoe's will still own most poeople even with resists, and if this ability is no longer needed then give us a new CA to replace it, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that would make me alot happier then the fubared spell we have now.

Whaaaa, you'll have to spend DKP on resist gear now, and you might have to joust an AE here and there. Get over it.

Im sorry, but a brigand would never make the top five in one of our raids. Not even pushing 1.5k.

All I am going to say is 1.5k dps?

What? Cant pull those kinda numbers? Or are you just more uber then 99% of the rest of the brigands? That was an average.

Pulling agro off the tank? Get a better tank. I know for a fact I can spam all of my CAs if I wanted and never pull agro off out MT and thats starting with Dispatch, Rake, Devit and Double Up.

I never pull aggro of my tank, he is a great tank however i know for alot of guilds brigands pulling aggro is a huge problem.

Funny, thats not what you said before.

If this isnt an issue, then the AR changes shouldnt be an issue.
I really do not care that my dps is being lowered, even while riad dps being lowered becuase of this i know my guildmates will pick up the slack, but is the fact that it seems instead of bringing more and more to the table each expansion we are bringing less. Also our debuffs do less now, so we are nerfed there to.

Again, if this is true, then there shouldnt be an issue with the AR change.

Its breaking me becuase it was the coolest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing ability ever! Also our dps will go down and no matter what you say, our debuffs are never going to be up the entire time now. I don't care what mob your if you have to joust it now they are going to have a aoe that will eventually land when your debuffs are expiring, and lets no forget mobs that automatically dispell debuffs.

The fact that it was the "coolest" ablitiy ever is part of the reason its getting nerfed, that and its not needed anymore.

If you cant keep a mob fully debuffed while jousting, Im going to suggest you pick another class. Obviously you have little to no clue on the debuffs, the durations, and the reuse timers... stop spaming CAs as the come up and learn what they do.

Haha learn2play huh, i bet you are one of those poeple who say rangers are the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and Coorslander is the perfect mob for you and thats all you need when assasins out dps you all the time. I don't care who you are how good of a god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ranger you are a good assasin will out dps you. I really find it funy your telling me this when obviously you do not realize how big of a nerf this is, maybe you have never seen parses to look at how often your short recast debuffs are hitting. Let me ask you, Have you ever? do you know how to read a parse?

This just further proves my point, that you know very little about the game. Again, stop dragging other classes into this, unless of course thats some shifty way to avoid the fact that you dont have a case you can win. I dont recall saying anything about rangers, assassins or the Corslander (which is a joke by the way).

You stated that you couldnt keep a mob fully debuffed and joust. I know for a fact that you can. If you dont believe that, then you dont know what you are doing. Thats cut and dry. But hey, just keep trying, maybe you can insult a few more classes on your quest to undo the nerf.






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Old 11-06-2006, 06:13 AM   #106
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Okay brigs if you dont like your class please leave.   If you wanted to dps play a Necro/Assasin.  YOU ARE NOT A DPS.  Your sole job is to dispatch the mobs expecially orange ones so debuffs can land easier.  YOU ARE THE DEBUFFER of the game.  Instead of being a buff bot like bards you are a debuffer so get over it.
 
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Old 11-06-2006, 06:18 AM   #107
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Not much up there for good argument... but I'm digging the color scheme. SMILEY
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Old 11-06-2006, 06:44 AM   #108
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Ni7r0kill32 wrote:

TerriBlades wrote:

Easy enough, I'll just play like every other class and joust if need be. More then likely I'll never us AR

Then they need to give us a new ability so that one of ancient teachings isn't worthless IMHO.

Why should they do this? Stream of Arrows, and Thorny Trap were both changed for rangers making them just as useless an ancient teaching as AR is going to be for Brigands.

What happened to not bringing other classes into this? Also why should each acient teaching get nerfed, and most have not been nerfed to the point where they are useless

Then get a bow like Sarnak if you want to do 4k every 8s.

Why should i change the weapons on have on my toon another time becuase sony can not make up their mind on [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]? And your a ranger of course you like bows. Just go back to being a ranger, i bet your better at it.

While you shouldnt have to, but you are the one that brought up how much damage a plate tank could do with a bow. If you like the damage from the bow, use it. Otherwise stop dragging other classes into this.

while i shouldn't have to is the key  there.

Its been said, they are changing the way AEs one shot players. Thats what part of the revamp was about.I guarentee that aoe's will still own most poeople even with resists, and if this ability is no longer needed then give us a new CA to replace it, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that would make me alot happier then the fubared spell we have now.

Whaaaa, you'll have to spend DKP on resist gear now, and you might have to joust an AE here and there. Get over it.

OMG not my dkp, that really doesn't bother me considering most gear i have i can buff whatever i resist i want so, ya, gg on that one.

Im sorry, but a brigand would never make the top five in one of our raids. Not even pushing 1.5k.

All I am going to say is 1.5k dps?

What? Cant pull those kinda numbers? Or are you just more uber then 99% of the rest of the brigands? That was an average.

Again 1.5k is high for your number 5 person?

Pulling agro off the tank? Get a better tank. I know for a fact I can spam all of my CAs if I wanted and never pull agro off out MT and thats starting with Dispatch, Rake, Devit and Double Up.

I never pull aggro of my tank, he is a great tank however i know for alot of guilds brigands pulling aggro is a huge problem.

Funny, thats not what you said before.

Once again never once said i had a problem pulling aggro, however alot brigs do.

If this isnt an issue, then the AR changes shouldnt be an issue.I really do not care that my dps is being lowered, even while riad dps being lowered becuase of this i know my guildmates will pick up the slack, but is the fact that it seems instead of bringing more and more to the table each expansion we are bringing less. Also our debuffs do less now, so we are nerfed there to.

Again, if this is true, then there shouldnt be an issue with the AR change.

so you enjoy being less use to each raid you go on?

Its breaking me becuase it was the coolest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing ability ever! Also our dps will go down and no matter what you say, our debuffs are never going to be up the entire time now. I don't care what mob your if you have to joust it now they are going to have a aoe that will eventually land when your debuffs are expiring, and lets no forget mobs that automatically dispell debuffs.

The fact that it was the "coolest" ablitiy ever is part of the reason its getting nerfed, that and its not needed anymore.

If you cant keep a mob fully debuffed while jousting, Im going to suggest you pick another class. Obviously you have little to no clue on the debuffs, the durations, and the reuse timers... stop spaming CAs as the come up and learn what they do.

Haha learn2play huh, i bet you are one of those poeple who say rangers are the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and Coorslander is the perfect mob for you and thats all you need when assasins out dps you all the time. I don't care who you are how good of a god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ranger you are a good assasin will out dps you. I really find it funy your telling me this when obviously you do not realize how big of a nerf this is, maybe you have never seen parses to look at how often your short recast debuffs are hitting. Let me ask you, Have you ever? do you know how to read a parse?

This just further proves my point, that you know very little about the game. Again, stop dragging other classes into this, unless of course thats some shifty way to avoid the fact that you dont have a case you can win. I dont recall saying anything about rangers, assassins or the Corslander (which is a joke by the way).

Becuase I was serious about that?

You stated that you couldnt keep a mob fully debuffed and joust. I know for a fact that you can. If you dont believe that, then you dont know what you are doing. Thats cut and dry. But hey, just keep trying, maybe you can insult a few more classes on your quest to undo the nerf.

Again, there is going to be time that becuase of jousting the mob will not be debuffed the entire time.

I would not have a problem with this change, Them lowering our dps, or just lowering our debuffs but doing all 3 at once is a kick in the balls x3. However its ok becuase you enjoy being gimped and having your class nerfed


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Old 11-06-2006, 06:53 AM   #109
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Join us chatting on Brigand Forum ! SMILEY
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Old 11-06-2006, 06:57 AM   #110
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This game is just [Removed for Content] me off more and more each time I play it, i don't roll a class that i like to play to 3 months and then have to find a new class. And ya,,, the color scheme shall continue foREVEr
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Old 11-06-2006, 08:51 AM   #111
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IF the change to AR was what is written in the spell description, it might not be all bad. But it's not. It's supposed to have a 15% chance to proc off CA's, but what it actually does is 15% proc, that only procs off CA's. So since most CA's are 0.5 second cast, it has a 2.5% chance to proc for every CA you cast. It goes off about once every 3 or 4 minutes in my testing.
 
 
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Old 11-06-2006, 08:58 AM   #112
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Deep breaths everyone. There is some good discussion in this thread so I'd hate to close it based on a few heated posts. Settle down and post constructively.
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Old 11-06-2006, 09:17 AM   #113
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Wow, I hadn't realized the NDA was lifted so i wasn't even looking out for this, but here's my 2cp.1)AR in its current form on beta simply doesn't proc reliably.  Blame the broken proc mechanics if you want, but its currently unusable.  On a typical 4 minute boss fight AR proc'd once for me and didn't even cause me to avoid an AE.  I checked with our other 2 guild brigands and their experience is the same.2)Those of you that think you won't be getting 1 shotted with the new AE mechanics are simply wrong.  I took cheldrak's AE for 11k with 7k resists.  Sure with new gear you'll have a bit more HP, but if you think you and your healers can sustain 11k hits, you are sadly mistaken.  Our guild WW 2nded chel'drak and we always 1st pull him on live, im too embarrassed to say what we were able to get him to in beta...lets just say it caught us a little off guard.  We didn't even attempt matron.  3)Those of you who think it will not effect your dps and more importantly your ability to keep your low duration debuffs on the mob simply haven't played other melee dps classes, or realized how many mobs have annoying ae stun/knockback abilities.  I've seen a reduction of around 100-300 RELATIVE dps depending on the encounter (i.e. my dps in relation to other classes)...with a few exceptions.  And I'm not talking about trash fights, but lets be honest, no one builds raids around trash fights.  Raid slots are given based on boss mob performance.  Trust me getting 1 shotted by an AE really hurts your dps potential.  4)For those of you that think we still bring good debuffs to the raid.  I've got news for you...with the changes to the mitigation curves word on the street is its much easier to hit the point of diminishing returns on -mitigation without dispatch.  When I get a chance I'm going to crunch the numbers from our beta parses to verify the hearsay that dispatch is less effective.  But the usefulness of multiple brigands on raids appears to have been greatly diminished.  (both because of mitigation changes and because of the AR nerf)All of the suggestions listed here and more have been suggested as changes to AR to at least make it viable.  Every beta patch it seems some good changes go in, I know a lot of casters, healers, and a few tank classes are stoked on EoF.  I'm secretly hoping that the dev's simply haven't gotten to the 7 page thread with good, balanced AR suggestions on the beta boards.I also don't really agree with you Innocent of FoH. I've done all the same raids you have in EoF and I fail to see how AR would be super overpowering in those situations.  Especially considering other classes are getting AE avoidance abilities...I really think they could strike a balance with some sort of activatable skill, increased penalty on the skill in its current form, or significant upgrade to the proc % on AR.If they don't intend for AR to be up often the proc should proc group AE avoidance to add some more group utility to the brigand class so multiple brigands are still desirable on raids.

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Old 11-06-2006, 09:26 AM   #114
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First off we only started getting ubber debuffs come LU13.  I didn't roll my brigand to be a debuffing class, that was an extra bonus from the revamp when we got a lot of debuffing abilities.  There's nothing written in stone saying we're a debuffing class and have to stay that way.  What we are is a scout class.  As in a dps class.  That's truly what we are at heart. 

That's not to say we should be outdpsing assassins and rangers (but I sometimes do) but we should be a T2 dps class.  Our hope is that from aoes you won't have to joust them.  It will be just like Labs, Lycaeum, HoS and DT now where jousting isn't needed.  In that case our dps won't suffer and I'm fine with the change.  Just put on a little resist gear and I'm gtg with the only drawback being we can't equip as many proc items and acrylia rings.

On the other hand there's AoEs like Matron or Chel'drak.  If these AoEs get cut and pasted onto mobs in the expansion we're going to get hit with a big dps nurf.  Look at swashbucklers for a comparison to how we'll be fairing.  Over 50% of my dps is autoattack, if we have to joust we aren't like assassins that can get those big CAs off and run out.  Our DPS is limited to how long we can beat on a mob so jousting will PLUMMET our dps.  This is my main concern.

It also doesn't have to be limited to this expansion.  It can be on any expansion or A pack where if we have to joust we're going to be the suck and best of left on the sidelines EVEN with our good debuffs.

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Old 11-06-2006, 09:32 AM   #115
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Urza69 wrote:
Okay brigs if you dont like your class please leave.   If you wanted to dps play a Necro/Assasin.  YOU ARE NOT A DPS.  Your sole job is to dispatch the mobs expecially orange ones so debuffs can land easier.  YOU ARE THE DEBUFFER of the game.  Instead of being a buff bot like bards you are a debuffer so get over it.
 
Change your class if you dont like it PERIOD.  
 
 
 
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LOL, I'm not sure what game you're playing.  I guess you're just a tank, maybe SOE should remove all the zerker DPS AAs, offensive stance, etc.


 

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Old 11-06-2006, 11:55 AM   #116
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sobek_eq2 wrote:


Urza69 wrote:
Okay brigs if you dont like your class please leave.   If you wanted to dps play a Necro/Assasin.  YOU ARE NOT A DPS.  Your sole job is to dispatch the mobs expecially orange ones so debuffs can land easier.  YOU ARE THE DEBUFFER of the game.  Instead of being a buff bot like bards you are a debuffer so get over it.
 
Change your class if you dont like it PERIOD.  
 
 
 
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LOL, I'm not sure what game you're playing.  I guess you're just a tank, maybe SOE should remove all the zerker DPS AAs, offensive stance, etc.


 




How are we not DPS, we are suppose to be T2 DPS, yes [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s are suppose to out DPS us, but according to SOE necro's are suppose to be T2 DPS also. ATM, necro's are T1 DPS out doing wiz/warlocks go to their boards and post why are you even here.
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Old 11-06-2006, 12:04 PM   #117
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I think we can all agree AR is completely useless, now give us a fix please.

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Old 11-06-2006, 01:32 PM   #118
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It's experiencing changes like these through EQ1 that has large numbers of people in the gaming community sworn never to touch an SOE product, and is why EQ2 never reached the market dominance it was expected to.

It boggles the mind.

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Old 11-06-2006, 04:11 PM   #119
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rsparrowk wrote:
Wow, I hadn't realized the NDA was lifted so i wasn't even looking out for this, but here's my 2cp.1)AR in its current form on beta simply doesn't proc reliably.  Blame the broken proc mechanics if you want, but its currently unusable.  On a typical 4 minute boss fight AR proc'd once for me and didn't even cause me to avoid an AE.  I checked with our other 2 guild brigands and their experience is the same.2)Those of you that think you won't be getting 1 shotted with the new AE mechanics are simply wrong.  I took cheldrak's AE for 11k with 7k resists.  Sure with new gear you'll have a bit more HP, but if you think you and your healers can sustain 11k hits, you are sadly mistaken.  Our guild WW 2nded chel'drak and we always 1st pull him on live, im too embarrassed to say what we were able to get him to in beta...lets just say it caught us a little off guard.  We didn't even attempt matron.  well... ahem... so, i don't know how good the eof gear is... but unless it's far better than kos the new AE mechanics sound bad from your description.3)Those of you who think it will not effect your dps and more importantly your ability to keep your low duration debuffs on the mob simply haven't played other melee dps classes, or realized how many mobs have annoying ae stun/knockback abilities.  I've seen a reduction of around 100-300 RELATIVE dps depending on the encounter (i.e. my dps in relation to other classes)...with a few exceptions.  And I'm not talking about trash fights, but lets be honest, no one builds raids around trash fights.  Raid slots are given based on boss mob performance.  Trust me getting 1 shotted by an AE really hurts your dps potential.  not only your reduction in dps... our brigand is not always online so i know that the difference between a raid with and without a brigand is big.4)For those of you that think we still bring good debuffs to the raid.  I've got news for you...with the changes to the mitigation curves word on the street is its much easier to hit the point of diminishing returns on -mitigation without dispatch.  When I get a chance I'm going to crunch the numbers from our beta parses to verify the hearsay that dispatch is less effective.  But the usefulness of multiple brigands on raids appears to have been greatly diminished.  (both because of mitigation changes and because of the AR nerf)i think they should change mitigation (and also resists) debuffs to have a bigger effect the higher the mitigation (resist) in question is. example with made up numbers:reduces the target's mitigation by 5000 if target's mitigation 8500 or higher.reduces the target's mitigation by 4000 if target's mitigation 7500 or higher.reduces the target's mitigation by 3000 if target's mitigation 6500 or higher.reduces the target's mitigation by 1750 if target's mitigation 1 or higher.lets not discuss if with those made up numbers the ability would be overpowered or not.... i just made them up to show how debbuff's for mitigation and (resists) should get changed to counter the new combat mechanis with extreme high mitigation and resists numbers.All of the suggestions listed here and more have been suggested as changes to AR to at least make it viable.  Every beta patch it seems some good changes go in, I know a lot of casters, healers, and a few tank classes are stoked on EoF.  I'm secretly hoping that the dev's simply haven't gotten to the 7 page thread with good, balanced AR suggestions on the beta boards.I also don't really agree with you Innocent of FoH. I've done all the same raids you have in EoF and I fail to see how AR would be super overpowering in those situations.  Especially considering other classes are getting AE avoidance abilities...I really think they could strike a balance with some sort of activatable skill, increased penalty on the skill in its current form, or significant upgrade to the proc % on AR.make it activatable with a duration of lets say 1 min or something along that line....If they don't intend for AR to be up often the proc should proc group AE avoidance to add some more group utility to the brigand class so multiple brigands are still desirable on raids.even if it would be group wide they would still need to up the procrate on it.

Message Edited by rsparrowk on 11-05-2006 08:23 PM


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Old 11-06-2006, 05:37 PM   #120
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Urza69 wrote:
Okay brigs if you dont like your class please leave.   If you wanted to dps play a Necro/Assasin.  YOU ARE NOT A DPS.  Your sole job is to dispatch the mobs expecially orange ones so debuffs can land easier.  YOU ARE THE DEBUFFER of the game.  Instead of being a buff bot like bards you are a debuffer so get over it.
 
Change your class if you dont like it PERIOD.  
 
 
 
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Please nerf destruction and open wounds.

 

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