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Old 12-14-2006, 12:54 AM   #91
Dragonreal

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so you're saying mystics got 5% extra speed in place of our +15 min duration? so what are we getting in place of their 35% safe fall.. I kinda figured we got the duration increase instead of the safe fall.. strange that.  so if a "measly" 5% speed = 15 min duration I wonder what we could get in place of 35% safe fall.. dam we must really be missin outIf you don't give a crap about it, why in the hell does it bother you so much that others do give a crap about it? Ok we get the idea you think we're all a buncha [Removed for Content] cuz we care about something you feel is minor.. good for you now you've stated your opinion,. we've stated ours why are you still arguing trying to change our opinon of what's important to us?

Message Edited by Dragonrealms on 12-13-2006 02:56 PM

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Old 12-14-2006, 12:55 AM   #92
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You're right.  The game shouldn't have balance.  Things should be made purposely different for flavor purposes.

Please change the mystic's sow to 40% and change ours to 50%.  It's spirit of the wolf and we're the wolf class with the wolf illusion and everything.  For flavor purposes ours should be the better SoW.  So reduce mystic sow so it's outright worse then ours and everyone should be happy according to your argument.

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Old 12-14-2006, 12:57 AM   #93
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mikemcmodmike wrote:

You're right.  The game shouldn't have balance.  Things should be made purposely different for flavor purposes.

Please change the mystic's sow to 40% and change ours to 50%.  It's spirit of the wolf and we're the wolf class with the wolf illusion and everything.  For flavor purposes ours should be the better SoW.  So reduce mystic sow so it's outright worse then ours and everyone should be happy according to your argument.


You can usually tell when someone has either run out of arguments or is starting to see that their point was silly to begin with because they start exaggerating wildly trying to bolster their position.
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Old 12-14-2006, 12:58 AM   #94
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Who's exaggerating.  I want the changes I brought up implemented.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:00 AM   #95
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Monal wrote:Oh, and one other thing.  I was going to edit this into my other post but I wanted this to stand on its own.  What makes you think everyone is SUPPOSED to run at the same speed?  Other than bards I guess, since you haven't mentioned that they have been faster, far faster, than you since release.  (I don't know if this still is the case)  Do you have some kind of supersecret access to the "Declaration of EQ2 Mechanics" or the "10 Commandments of EQ2" that the rest of us dont?  The one where it states with clarity that all priests shall have the same speed SoW, or else?

It's about getting the same benefit for cost of AA spending, we should get equal benefit for our AA points, if not then our lesser SoW should cost less, simple for intelligent people to understand.Why are you even here, you add NOTHING to the conversation, you add only disharmony and angst to a perfectly civil thread, I would thank you to go play outside or do something constructive until school is back in session and you are kept busy.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:02 AM   #96
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Dragonrealms wrote:
so you're saying mystics got 5% extra speed in place of our +15 min duration? so what are we getting in place of their 35% safe fall.. I kinda figured we got the duration increase instead of the safe fall.. strange that.  so if a "measly" 5% speed = 15 min duration I wonder what we could get in place of 35% safe fall.. dam we must really be missin outIf you don't give a crap about it, why in the hell does it bother you so much that others do give a crap about it? Ok we get the idea you think we're all a buncha [Removed for Content] cuz we care about something you feel is minor.. good for you now you've stated your opinion,. we've stated ours why are you still arguing trying to change our opinon of what's important to us?

Message Edited by Dragonrealms on 12-13-2006 02:56 PM


What makes you think everything has to counter on a 1 for 1 basis?  Isn't it just possible that we get the extra duration while Mistics get both the (in my opinion less than useful) 35% falling damage reduction + extra 5% speed?  And given that arguement, I will STILL take our extra duration, thanks.Why am I still here?  You caught me.  Guilty!  I am having fun at your expense.  No, it isn't nice, but hey the world isn't always nice.  I am not trying to convince you.  I never even considered the possibility to be frank.  I am just having fun poking at you.  You ever pick at a scab?  It hurts, but in a funny way it feels good to.  You are the scab.   Man, that came off sounding more like an insult than intended, but I like the analogy so I will keep it in. 
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:07 AM   #97
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It doesn't change the fact that SoW is seen as a druid buff.  Most people didn't even know SoW was given to mystics... it was probably given to mystics as an afterthought once it was designed for druids.

SoW is associated with druids, not mystics.  End of story.  It's also spirit of the wolf, not spirit of the bear.  I don't even think mystics should have been allowed to upgrade SoW in the first place.  Since as it stands it's an AA for you guys then at least it should be inferrior.  Change your SoW to 40% tops and ours to 50%.  It only seems right since we don't want a game where everything's equal. 

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Old 12-14-2006, 01:10 AM   #98
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Why should wardens be the healer class with the less benefit or gain from any aa line which is giving to mutil healer classes? Justify to me why wardens should be the last on the list then I will care for the response of the one who is coming here and complaining about wardens views... Till then... dude respect the players rights to say what they feel. Anyone who has played the warden class for two years and been kicked and kicked... well I personally salute them for standing up for the class today.

 

Message Edited by jkamp on 12-13-2006 12:14 PM

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Old 12-14-2006, 01:18 AM   #99
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mikemcmodmike wrote:

It doesn't change the fact that SoW is seen as a druid buff.  Most people didn't even know SoW was given to mystics... it was probably given to mystics as an afterthought once it was designed for druids.

SoW is associated with druids, not mystics.  End of story.  It's also spirit of the wolf, not spirit of the bear.  I don't even think mystics should have been allowed to upgrade SoW in the first place.  Since as it stands it's an AA for you guys then at least it should be inferrior.  Change your SoW to 40% tops and ours to 50%.  It only seems right since we don't want a game where everything's equal. 


You see, therein lies the rub.  Just because the unwashed masses believe something does not make a thing true.  I am pretty sure Shaman have had SoW since release just like Druids.  Also, as has been stated before Shaman and Druids both have always had SoW in EQ1 as well. So, what makes it a Druid buff exactly?  Just because you say so?  Just because the population believes it to be so?  So, as you can see (maybe?) it is not quite as "end of story" as you would like it to be.   You seem to be under the misconception that I am personally a shaman?  Just because I disagree with your statements I guess. 
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:28 AM   #100
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jkamp wrote:

Why should wardens be the healer class with the less benefit or gain from any aa line which is giving to mutil healer classes? Justify to me why wardens should be the last on the list then I will care for the response of the one who is coming here and complaining about wardens views... Till then... dude respect the players rights to say what they feel. Anyone who has played the warden class for two years and been kicked and kicked... well I personally salute them for standing up for the class today.

Message Edited by jkamp on 12-13-2006 12:14 PM


Ok, I can see someone can't read.  If you will bring your eyes up a few posts, you can clearly see that I fully respect your right to say whatever you want.  By the same token, I respect my own right to also say what I want.  In otherwords,  you are welcome and encouraged to say anything.  Heck, if it pleases, feel free to insult me.  Call my mom names even.  I know the truth, and words cause me no harm.  I also feel free to respond to what you post in a public forum.  You see how that two way rights thing works right?  You have the right to whine, and I have the right to whine about your whining.  I hope we have sufficiently cleared that crazy little issue up.Now, as to your very very first point in the quoted section.  The problem is, you are assuming that the item in question is, indeed, a lesser benefit.  You see, there are those of us (now, granted, I COULD be the only one but I doubt it) that disagree with you.  I think I have stated adequately that the following equation is true:(45% SoW + 45min Duration) > (50% SoW + 35% Falling Damage Reduction + 30min Duration)Much like in real math the number of operations in an equation is less important than the final result.  To me, the final result is that WE are the ones with the greater benefit.  You can NOT state with finality that this is not true, because it is an opinion and thus unprovable either way.  YOU find the opposite to be true.  Sorry, I have nothing for that.  And finally here is my point.If you whackjobs get SoE to up the speed of our SoW a measly 5% and remove my beloved extra 15 min duration, I swear to whatever deity you hold dear that I will track you down and wedgie your frigging head off.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:36 AM   #101
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Everyone has the right to say what they want..as long as they stay within the guidelines of the forum rules of conduct.I strongly suggest that you all stop tossing around personal attacks or you might find yourselves without forum access. Ya'll know better than this.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:48 AM   #102
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Scarrlette wrote:Everyone has the right to say what they want..as long as they stay within the guidelines of the forum rules of conduct.I strongly suggest that you all stop tossing around personal attacks or you might find yourselves without forum access. Ya'll know better than this.
Yes ma'am.  But they started it!Oh one thing I feel compelled to ask, since I tend to speak my mind more than is typically socially acceptible in this PC era, when you say "without forum access" do you mean lose the ability to post or the ability to read?  Posting on here is something I typically do for fun and I can take it or leave it but I do like to read it.  Now, I don't mean to say I am going to intentionaly say something to get spanked over, but eh, I am the kinda guy that if I feel something needs to be said, it gets said regardless of the consequences.  My wife says I am tactless.  I like to think of it as being blunt and up front with you.  No one ever wonders where they stand with me.  They always know.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:51 AM   #103
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Monal wrote:

Scarrlette wrote:Everyone has the right to say what they want..as long as they stay within the guidelines of the forum rules of conduct.I strongly suggest that you all stop tossing around personal attacks or you might find yourselves without forum access. Ya'll know better than this.
Yes ma'am.  But they started it!Oh one thing I feel compelled to ask, since I tend to speak my mind more than is typically socially acceptible in this PC era, when you say "without forum access" do you mean lose the ability to post or the ability to read?  Posting on here is something I typically do for fun and I can take it or leave it but I do like to read it.  Now, I don't mean to say I am going to intentionaly say something to get spanked over, but eh, I am the kinda guy that if I feel something needs to be said, it gets said regardless of the consequences.  My wife says I am tactless.  I like to think of it as being blunt and up front with you.  No one ever wonders where they stand with me.  They always know.

When one gets banned it means they may not post here anymore. But I do believe you may still read the forums.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:57 AM   #104
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I think people need to take a step back here.
 
10%... it's 10% folks.  Barely discernable while running.  Shaman's are not going to fly by us like we're standing still.  Why do they get a slightly faster SoW and safe fall?  Druids have roots and much, MUCH better DPS, why not give it to them?  What difference does it make in combat when the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] buff is suspended anyway?  How does that 10% make or break our class enough for anyone to even break a sweat over it?  After all the bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] Wardens have had to put up with and suffered though... after all we've finally been able to achieve for ourselves post LU13, there's actually an argument about a 10% difference in speed buff?  Jesus [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing christ people.  Seriously.
 
Just because you have the right to post whatever you want, doesn't mean you are excused from using some god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], good old fashioned common sense and judgment.
 
Focus on the Warden class.  Ask yourself, within the confinds of our class whether you feel we still have issues.  If you can do that, and truly illustrate why a run speed buff of 45% is so detrimental to our class that a Dev needs to be asked to change it, then that's they way it should be posted.  It should not be a "Oh look Shaman's can run faster, the game's not fair!" rant.
 
You're all adults.  Well most of your are adults.  Please read what I've said and think carefully about the power you have to make your voice heard.  Everything I've posted here is, as always, just my opinion.  I am not responding to any specific poster (for or against), but rather the warden community as a whole.

EDIT:

Heh.  I probably wouldn't have posted if I had seen a mod intervene, but eh.

Message Edited by 3cho on 12-13-2006 04:03 PM

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Old 12-14-2006, 02:02 AM   #105
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Scarrlette wrote:When one gets banned it means they may not post here anymore. But I do believe you may still read the forums.
One last question.  I really and truely am not trying to be difficult here.  So far as I can tell the only rule we have broken is the personal attack thing, and both sides have done it.  Me by calling them crazy and whackjobs and them by calling me stupid.  Here comes the question.  Is IMPLYING that someone is stupid but not directly calling them a [Removed for Content] against the rules?  For instance, saying:"You know, I think it is stupid beyond belief that anyone could be so darn concerned over 5% speed."Could be seen to be implying someone in the thread is stupid.  Yet, I have not personally attacked them.  Technically though, it is saying that the IDEA is stupid.  Is this against the rules?  Or do you have to directly attack the person for it to be breaking the rules.  A direct reference.  A greyish area comes to mind.  What if I say the following:"Anyone who gets so worked up over a 5% difference in running speed really, REALLY needs to seek some professional help and get away from this game for a little bit."In this context, I have not directly attacked anyone yet I have indirectly insulted their mental state.   I know you may think this response is just goading you, but I since the offense is bannable (which in the context of a forum could be considered a capital punishment, and for some people would absolutely ruin their lives... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] there I go again) I really would like a little clarification on this issue. 
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:13 AM   #106
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Monal wrote:Ok, I can see someone can't read.  If you will bring your eyes up a few posts, you can clearly see that I fully respect your right to say whatever you want.  By the same token, I respect my own right to also say what I want.  In otherwords,  you are welcome and encouraged to say anything.  Heck, if it pleases, feel free to insult me.  Call my mom names even.  I know the truth, and words cause me no harm.  I also feel free to respond to what you post in a public forum.  You see how that two way rights thing works right?  You have the right to whine, and I have the right to whine about your whining.  I hope we have sufficiently cleared that crazy little issue up.
Now, as to your very very first point in the quoted section.  The problem is, you are assuming that the item in question is, indeed, a lesser benefit.  You see, there are those of us (now, granted, I COULD be the only one but I doubt it) that disagree with you.  I think I have stated adequately that the following equation is true:(45% SoW + 45min Duration) > (50% SoW + 35% Falling Damage Reduction + 30min Duration)Much like in real math the number of operations in an equation is less important than the final result.  To me, the final result is that WE are the ones with the greater benefit.  You can NOT state with finality that this is not true, because it is an opinion and thus unprovable either way.  YOU find the opposite to be true.  Sorry, I have nothing for that.  And finally here is my point.If you whackjobs get SoE to up the speed of our SoW a measly 5% and remove my beloved extra 15 min duration, I swear to whatever deity you hold dear that I will track you down and wedgie your frigging head off.

No one cares if you think that the 54% is enough, really, no one cares, so why do you care if we think it isn't? You are worried that they will shorten the duration? OH PLEASE! You had to work that out of the bottom of the bag of excuses for your behavior, if you really cared you would be posting for them to FIX IT so it doesn't drop   to regular speed when zoning, so what use is the added duration to anyone? It means nothing to me, I am recasting this buff  all day long every day, the added duration is broken and you come here and complain that they will take it away from you? That is a very very far leap into twisted logic... one has nothing to do with the other.Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel about the issue, but I have yet to see a post by you that didn't include name-calling and insults, you have run the spectrum from mildly insulting to totally vulgar, then moved on to insinuated threats, WOW, just WOW....Your opinion is just that, yours, it doesn't give you any right to call names or insult people, it doesn't make you right when you throw dirt at others, it only digs your own hole deeper and deeper until you are so far down in the dirt that no one can hear you anymore...I don't see any reason that you cannot make your point, if you have one, and your opinion known without having to resort to insults and maligning words, language is a wonderful thing if you have a proper command of it.So please, have your own opinion but stop calling names and insulting people, remember, he who throws dirt soon has no ground left to stand on.Or are you going to pick up that shovel and make it worse?Peace!
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:17 AM   #107
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Ok, so Scarrlette met me in a dark ally and beat me to a bloody pulp so I am going to make one final post on this thread and vamoose so I don't make her mad enough to kill me next time.I may not have been clear before in all my having fun so here it is, laid bare for the world to see.  My concern in this issue.They will not up our SoW that extra 5% without countering it.  If they do it at all.  What they will do is make a change somewhere, and the only logical place is to reduce the duration.  This duration is what I like.  My fear, the one that keeps me up at night and causes night terrors,  is that you fine and wonderful, though somewhat misguided, folks will cause the fine and wonderful folks at Sony to, in an attempt to make you great folks happy, increase our SoW that magic 5% but then, in the aformentioned countering move, reduce the duration.  I say no!  No to this dispicable plan.How was that? SMILEY 
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:23 AM   #108
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Bratface wrote:
No one cares if you think that the 54% is enough, really, no one cares, so why do you care if we think it isn't? You are worried that they will shorten the duration? OH PLEASE! You had to work that out of the bottom of the bag of excuses for your behavior, if you really cared you would be posting for them to FIX IT so it doesn't drop   to regular speed when zoning, so what use is the added duration to anyone? It means nothing to me, I am recasting this buff  all day long every day, the added duration is broken and you come here and complain that they will take it away from you? That is a very very far leap into twisted logic... one has nothing to do with the other.Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel about the issue, but I have yet to see a post by you that didn't include name-calling and insults, you have run the spectrum from mildly insulting to totally vulgar, then moved on to insinuated threats, WOW, just WOW....Your opinion is just that, yours, it doesn't give you any right to call names or insult people, it doesn't make you right when you throw dirt at others, it only digs your own hole deeper and deeper until you are so far down in the dirt that no one can hear you anymore...I don't see any reason that you cannot make your point, if you have one, and your opinion known without having to resort to insults and maligning words, language is a wonderful thing if you have a proper command of it.So please, have your own opinion but stop calling names and insulting people, remember, he who throws dirt soon has no ground left to stand on.Or are you going to pick up that shovel and make it worse?Peace!

Oh get off your high horse.  I never feel the need to justify my actions.  They are what they are, if you don't like them it is your problem. Yea, I can be insulting.  Don't like it?  Try to be a little less sensitive or don't read my responses.  I have not once been vulgar.   Where is this "hole" you speak of?  Insinuated threats?  Please guy, get a grip on reality.  If you even remotely viewed that as a threat, you probably should not be socializing with real actual people.   I really feel that you have massively overstated the situation here.  In fact, it was hilarious to read your raving.  It was such a drama queen response.   :/  Yea, Im gonna get banned for this one for sure but, eh, It had to be addressed.
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:26 AM   #109
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Am I invisible today? *taps the mic* Is this thing on?Locked for not getting back on track and letting the personal crap go.
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