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Old 12-03-2008, 10:19 PM   #1
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It would be nice to have an upgraded version of the Lambent Balanced Strut (1% block fabled adornment) now that + block has been made so much less effective.  I'd like to see a T8 version that at least adds does Shield Block I (5% shield effectiveness).  The 1% block increase has become pretty useless with the recent changes.

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Old 12-06-2008, 01:31 PM   #2
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Shields already give far too much uncontested avoidance, there's no need for more.

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Old 12-06-2008, 05:32 PM   #3
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[email protected] wrote:

It would be nice to have an upgraded version of the Lambent Balanced Strut (1% block fabled adornment) now that + block has been made so much less effective.  I'd like to see a T8 version that at least adds does Shield Block I (5% shield effectiveness).  The 1% block increase has become pretty useless with the recent changes.

Agree... there was no upgrade in T8 because it was already a very good adornment but now it isn't very good at all.  This is so bad now that even though I totally equip with shield ally in mind, I'll probably put the 1% heal crit on my shield over this now.

Both the Lambent Balanced Strut & the Luminous Blessed Strut could use an upgrade.

Choices for shields:

  • Smoldering Reinforced Strut : +77 vs Crushing/Slashing/Piercing
  • Smoldering Spiked Strut : 69 (?) damage shield
  • Smoldering Intercepting Strut : small reactive heal on block
  • Smoldering Tactical Strut : increases Melee Crit chance by 2.0%
  • Lambent Balanced Strut :  increases Block chance by 1.0%
  • Luminous Blessed Strut : increases Heal Crit chance by 1.0%
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Old 12-06-2008, 05:36 PM   #4
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JenarieII wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

It would be nice to have an upgraded version of the Lambent Balanced Strut (1% block fabled adornment) now that + block has been made so much less effective.  I'd like to see a T8 version that at least adds does Shield Block I (5% shield effectiveness).  The 1% block increase has become pretty useless with the recent changes.

Agree... there was no upgrade in T8 because it was already a very good adornment but now it isn't very good at all.  This is so bad now that even though I totally equip with shield ally in mind, I'll probably put the 1% heal crit on my shield over this now.

Both the Lambent Balanced Strut & the Luminous Blessed Strut could use an upgrade.

Choices for shields:

  • Smoldering Reinforced Strut : +77 vs Crushing/Slashing/Piercing
  • Smoldering Spiked Strut : 69 (?) damage shield
  • Smoldering Intercepting Strut : small reactive heal on block
  • Smoldering Tactical Strut : increases Melee Crit chance by 2.0%
  • Lambent Balanced Strut :  increases Block chance by 1.0%
  • Luminous Blessed Strut : increases Heal Crit chance by 1.0%

The spiked strut is a damage reactive that damages anyone who attacks the person with the adornment.

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Old 12-06-2008, 05:48 PM   #5
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That's what I meant by damage shield.  Just not sure if the 69 is correct.

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Old 12-06-2008, 08:45 PM   #6
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Lethe5683 wrote:

Shields already give far too much uncontested avoidance, there's no need for more.

You obviously don't play a templar.

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Old 12-07-2008, 07:42 AM   #7
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Lethe5683 wrote:

JenarieII wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

It would be nice to have an upgraded version of the Lambent Balanced Strut (1% block fabled adornment) now that + block has been made so much less effective.  I'd like to see a T8 version that at least adds does Shield Block I (5% shield effectiveness).  The 1% block increase has become pretty useless with the recent changes.

Agree... there was no upgrade in T8 because it was already a very good adornment but now it isn't very good at all.  This is so bad now that even though I totally equip with shield ally in mind, I'll probably put the 1% heal crit on my shield over this now.

Both the Lambent Balanced Strut & the Luminous Blessed Strut could use an upgrade.

Choices for shields:

  • Smoldering Reinforced Strut : +77 vs Crushing/Slashing/Piercing
  • Smoldering Spiked Strut : 69 (?) damage shield
  • Smoldering Intercepting Strut : small reactive heal on block
  • Smoldering Tactical Strut : increases Melee Crit chance by 2.0%
  • Lambent Balanced Strut :  increases Block chance by 1.0%
  • Luminous Blessed Strut : increases Heal Crit chance by 1.0%

The spiked strut is a damage reactive that damages anyone who attacks the person with the adornment.

God what is with your fighter hating.  First we have too much dps, now too much protection.  You do realize that they need dps to keep the aggro from an assassin and because the mobs hit so dang hard (and mitigation is 100% contested) they need to shield stuff to keep standing so they can keep eating your aggro? 

Yes this all exists because of arguably questionable mechanics in the game, but it is necessary so that they can keep standing without burning out the healer and keep the aggro so the mobs don't run around and wipe your group or raid.  To top it off they already did stuff to the unconctested avoidance so its not what it was prior to TSO.  Goof with it more and you won't be able to run any instances (shy fabled gear) without 2 healers to keep the fighter standing.

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Old 12-07-2008, 04:08 PM   #8
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

JenarieII wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

It would be nice to have an upgraded version of the Lambent Balanced Strut (1% block fabled adornment) now that + block has been made so much less effective.  I'd like to see a T8 version that at least adds does Shield Block I (5% shield effectiveness).  The 1% block increase has become pretty useless with the recent changes.

Agree... there was no upgrade in T8 because it was already a very good adornment but now it isn't very good at all.  This is so bad now that even though I totally equip with shield ally in mind, I'll probably put the 1% heal crit on my shield over this now.

Both the Lambent Balanced Strut & the Luminous Blessed Strut could use an upgrade.

Choices for shields:

  • Smoldering Reinforced Strut : +77 vs Crushing/Slashing/Piercing
  • Smoldering Spiked Strut : 69 (?) damage shield
  • Smoldering Intercepting Strut : small reactive heal on block
  • Smoldering Tactical Strut : increases Melee Crit chance by 2.0%
  • Lambent Balanced Strut :  increases Block chance by 1.0%
  • Luminous Blessed Strut : increases Heal Crit chance by 1.0%

The spiked strut is a damage reactive that damages anyone who attacks the person with the adornment.

God what is with your fighter hating.  First we have too much dps, now too much protection.  You do realize that they need dps to keep the aggro from an assassin and because the mobs hit so dang hard (and mitigation is 100% contested) they need to shield stuff to keep standing so they can keep eating your aggro? 

Yes this all exists because of arguably questionable mechanics in the game, but it is necessary so that they can keep standing without burning out the healer and keep the aggro so the mobs don't run around and wipe your group or raid.  To top it off they already did stuff to the unconctested avoidance so its not what it was prior to TSO.  Goof with it more and you won't be able to run any instances (shy fabled gear) without 2 healers to keep the fighter standing.

Not true at all about the healer problem.  I play a bruiser and have tanked all but the hardest TSO instances fine and that's with less mitigation, less uncontested avoidance and worse "oh s***" abilities than any plate tank.

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Old 12-07-2008, 04:56 PM   #9
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Instances aren't usually a problem, it's the orange con raid mobs that are the problem.  In its current form the block adorn is almost completely worthless, especially for clerics.

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Old 12-07-2008, 05:36 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

Instances aren't usually a problem, it's the orange con raid mobs that are the problem.  In its current form the block adorn is almost completely worthless, especially for clerics.

Exactly.  This applies to tanks as well not just clerics.  Lethe, while with the shield a Warrior MAY have more avoidance without the shield than a brawler (don't know I haven't played a brawler I've seen arguments that mention both points of view), without it we definitely make the healer work more and often fail in less than fabled gear.  I have tanked most of the instances and with the changes have been experimenting (dw, shield, defensive stance, offensive stance) etc.  The healer gets burned out QUICK if I am not wearing the shield.  Simply because a Brawler can tank it without a shield and not burn out the healer has NOTHING to do with what effect the shield has on a class designed to use it. 

I understand that Brawlers have issues(the fact you have an 80 brawler explains a lot about the whole dps/avoidance issues you have now), but perhaps once the brawler community as a whole desides whether they want to be tanks or T1 dps, they can then approach SOE and ask for help.  Right now I think SOE doesn't know what to do with them because their appears (at least on the forums) to be no consensus among the Brawlers as to what they want to do.  SOE has always been a company who takes the path of least resistance and when this kind of conflict exists within a community it is safer to do nothing and have a class be a "jack of all trades" with everyone moderatly annoyed than take a stand one way or the other and SERIOUSLY annoy a large minority.

My suggestion, rather than complain and try to prevent changes that would serve the larger community (shield stuff serves at least 11 classes quite well and is necessary for many of them) I suggest if you have an issue regarding Brawler/Warrior balance you try to get a consensus amongst the brawlers and then use that consensus to get the changes ou think are necessary to that class.  

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Old 12-07-2008, 07:22 PM   #11
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Instances aren't usually a problem, it's the orange con raid mobs that are the problem.  In its current form the block adorn is almost completely worthless, especially for clerics.

Exactly.  This applies to tanks as well not just clerics.  Lethe, while with the shield a Warrior MAY have more avoidance without the shield than a brawler (don't know I haven't played a brawler I've seen arguments that mention both points of view), without it we definitely make the healer work more and often fail in less than fabled gear.  I have tanked most of the instances and with the changes have been experimenting (dw, shield, defensive stance, offensive stance) etc.  The healer gets burned out QUICK if I am not wearing the shield.  Simply because a Brawler can tank it without a shield and not burn out the healer has NOTHING to do with what effect the shield has on a class designed to use it. 

With even a kite shield you probably get more avoidance than a brawler does (we only get 14% in defensive which we generally can't keep hate in and can't stun the mob then which makes it useless for any group without a dirge or warden for accuracy or on nameds where we can dump all of our most powerfull taunts).  So more uncontested avoidance, more mitigation, and for SKs and zerkers more DPS as well.  I don't see how this can be considered balanced in any way...  As far as I'm concerned brawlers are tanks not DPS, the main difference is we have less mitigation but should have more avoidance (both more contested and more uncontested) and at least comparable DPS.  Even though brawlers can dw that doesn't help me in any real amount.  I don't get much DPS from autoattack if I'm tanking.

I understand that Brawlers have issues(the fact you have an 80 brawler explains a lot about the whole dps/avoidance issues you have now), but perhaps once the brawler community as a whole desides whether they want to be tanks or T1 dps, they can then approach SOE and ask for help.  Right now I think SOE doesn't know what to do with them because their appears (at least on the forums) to be no consensus among the Brawlers as to what they want to do.  SOE has always been a company who takes the path of least resistance and when this kind of conflict exists within a community it is safer to do nothing and have a class be a "jack of all trades" with everyone moderatly annoyed than take a stand one way or the other and SERIOUSLY annoy a large minority.

I think most brawlers want to be tanks but are at this point tired of being useless for such an incredibly long time that they are willing to be made dps, utility, whatever just so long as they are actually good at something.

My suggestion, rather than complain and try to prevent changes that would serve the larger community (shield stuff serves at least 11 classes quite well and is necessary for many of them) I suggest if you have an issue regarding Brawler/Warrior balance you try to get a consensus amongst the brawlers and then use that consensus to get the changes ou think are necessary to that class.  

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Old 12-07-2008, 08:15 PM   #12
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Lethe5683 wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

With even a kite shield you probably get more avoidance than a brawler does (we only get 14% in defensive which we generally can't keep hate in and can't stun the mob then which makes it useless for any group without a dirge or warden for accuracy or on nameds where we can dump all of our most powerfull taunts).  So more uncontested avoidance, more mitigation, and for SKs and zerkers more DPS as well.  I don't see how this can be considered balanced in any way...  As far as I'm concerned brawlers are tanks not DPS, the main difference is we have less mitigation but should have more avoidance (both more contested and more uncontested) and at least comparable DPS.  Even though brawlers can dw that doesn't help me in any real amount.  I don't get much DPS from autoattack if I'm tanking.

The problem is what you note here is more a function of broken mechanics, which they have tried to resolve.  At some point Uncontested avoidance became over blown for all tanks.  To compensate they made the mobs hit HARD.  They are now trying to "fix" the reliance of uncontested avoidance of some of the tanks BUT the mobs still hit just as hard.  They created themsevles a BIG hole they need to dig out of and there is no clean way to do it.  To top it off there are classes that do not have defense and parry buffs to increase their avoidance to survive.  They do this by carrying a shield.  You can't have one shield mechanic for non-tanks and tanks, so you end up with what you see as a problem.  Thing is though reduce the plate tanks avoidance and how many more raid wipes do you think we'll see.  The way to fix this is not to bring 11 classes down to suit two classes, but rather to bring those two classes up.

I think most brawlers want to be tanks but are at this point tired of being useless for such an incredibly long time that they are willing to be made dps, utility, whatever just so long as they are actually good at something.

well regretably what they say is what the devs see not what they think.  It gets even worse in that we are like the third class dev since launch so theydefinitely don't know what people are thinking rather than saying.  Also I know plenty of people who have rolled brawlers in the last year or two saying "its going to be tougher t1/t2 dps".  Add in those saying "more utility please" and the situation becomes even more murky and the devs have even less of a clue as to which way to go.  It doesn't help that SOE seems to have never really had a clue as to what to do with the brawler beyond "they were in EQ1 so we need them".  We have the same problem among zerkers.  Over the last couple of years people rolled them thinking "plate wearing dps".  Now our dps got nerfed and they are crying about it.  Again though this is something to be addressed by asking for fixes in regards to the class, not nerfs to others, especially when those nerfs are ones that would effect at least 9 other classes.

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Old 12-07-2008, 10:50 PM   #13
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Man I was just hopeing that this was about improving the +healing crit on shield adornment.. /sigh I wanted something T8's not T4ish.

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Old 12-07-2008, 11:57 PM   #14
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I ended up using a +1 heal crit (T5) adornment instead of the 1% block (not very helpful on a ~600 protection buckler...). SMILEY

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Old 12-08-2008, 03:45 PM   #15
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I'm going to do the same.  But hope that the derail of the thread intro brawler issues doesn't take attention away from the issue with adornments which is that the T5 & T6 adornments could use a T8 version.  Shield adorns in general aren't very impressive and would benefit from a little attention (cause I know Fyre has nothing else to do atm! /grin).

  • Smoldering Reinforced Strut : +77 vs Crushing/Slashing/Piercing
  • Smoldering Spiked Strut : damage shield
  • Smoldering Intercepting Strut : small reactive heal on block
  • Smoldering Tactical Strut : increases Melee Crit chance by 2.0%
  • Lambent Balanced Strut :  increases Block chance by 1.0%
  • Luminous Blessed Strut : increases Heal Crit chance by 1.0%
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    Old 12-09-2008, 11:38 AM   #16
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    [email protected] DLere wrote:

    Lethe5683 wrote:

    [email protected] DLere wrote:

    With even a kite shield you probably get more avoidance than a brawler does (we only get 14% in defensive which we generally can't keep hate in and can't stun the mob then which makes it useless for any group without a dirge or warden for accuracy or on nameds where we can dump all of our most powerfull taunts).  So more uncontested avoidance, more mitigation, and for SKs and zerkers more DPS as well.  I don't see how this can be considered balanced in any way...  As far as I'm concerned brawlers are tanks not DPS, the main difference is we have less mitigation but should have more avoidance (both more contested and more uncontested) and at least comparable DPS.  Even though brawlers can dw that doesn't help me in any real amount.  I don't get much DPS from autoattack if I'm tanking.

    The problem is what you note here is more a function of broken mechanics, which they have tried to resolve.  At some point Uncontested avoidance became over blown for all tanks.  To compensate they made the mobs hit HARD.  They are now trying to "fix" the reliance of uncontested avoidance of some of the tanks BUT the mobs still hit just as hard.  They created themsevles a BIG hole they need to dig out of and there is no clean way to do it.  To top it off there are classes that do not have defense and parry buffs to increase their avoidance to survive.  They do this by carrying a shield.  You can't have one shield mechanic for non-tanks and tanks, so you end up with what you see as a problem.  Thing is though reduce the plate tanks avoidance and how many more raid wipes do you think we'll see.  The way to fix this is not to bring 11 classes down to suit two classes, but rather to bring those two classes up.

    I think most brawlers want to be tanks but are at this point tired of being useless for such an incredibly long time that they are willing to be made dps, utility, whatever just so long as they are actually good at something.

    well regretably what they say is what the devs see not what they think.  It gets even worse in that we are like the third class dev since launch so theydefinitely don't know what people are thinking rather than saying.  Also I know plenty of people who have rolled brawlers in the last year or two saying "its going to be tougher t1/t2 dps".  Add in those saying "more utility please" and the situation becomes even more murky and the devs have even less of a clue as to which way to go.  It doesn't help that SOE seems to have never really had a clue as to what to do with the brawler beyond "they were in EQ1 so we need them".  We have the same problem among zerkers.  Over the last couple of years people rolled them thinking "plate wearing dps".  Now our dps got nerfed and they are crying about it.  Again though this is something to be addressed by asking for fixes in regards to the class, not nerfs to others, especially when those nerfs are ones that would effect at least 9 other classes.

    The role of all fighters is meant to be a tank, not DPS, not utility.  For those people who made a brawler thinking they would be T1/T2 DPS then they made a poor decision and need to re roll.

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    Old 12-09-2008, 03:41 PM   #17
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    The blanced strut needs upgrades in T7 and T8, and if it stays as low of a percent as it is it needs to be changed to a treasured adornment.  The last time an adornment was nerfed this hard everyone with that adornment had the adorn removed from their items and given back to them at the nerfed level and was given plat in compensation for it (+400 health and power to shoulders and helm anyone?).  I recived no plat bonus, just a kick in the pants for the 7 shields I have adorned (granted I no longer use a few of them, I still have four wherever I go). 

    Fabled adornment for +1% shield effectiveness?  Fix it please.  And a heal crit adorn upgrade wouldn't hurt either.

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    Old 12-09-2008, 03:55 PM   #18
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    They could at least change it from 1% block to 1% reposte. Then it would remain uncontested. I still agree it needs a t8 version. either Shield Block I (5%), or 2% reposte.

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    Old 12-09-2008, 03:59 PM   #19
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    For a fabled adornment, the T6 version should be 5% shield effectivness and the T8 version 10% or 15%.  Either that or let me put weapon adornments on the stupid thing and have them proc off my main hand weapon...

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    Old 12-09-2008, 08:20 PM   #20
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    mayyyyyybe 10%, but 15% would be too much for fighter tower shields.

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    Old 12-10-2008, 12:02 PM   #21
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    Its a fabled adornment, if there is a T8 version 15% shield effectiveness seems in-line with other T8 fabled adornments.  The parry for wrists is 3% parry, if a shield gives 20% (tower shield) avoidance then 15% SE would give an additional 3%.

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    Old 12-10-2008, 01:04 PM   #22
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    Undorett wrote:

    Its a fabled adornment, if there is a T8 version 15% shield effectiveness seems in-line with other T8 fabled adornments.  The parry for wrists is 3% parry, if a shield gives 20% (tower shield) avoidance then 15% SE would give an additional 3%.

    15% seems a bit high for an adornment, but a T8 version around 5-10% SE does seem worth while.

    As a tank, I personally dumped the +1block for melee crit.

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    Old 12-10-2008, 01:37 PM   #23
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    Undorett wrote:

    For a fabled adornment, the T6 version should be 5% shield effectivness and the T8 version 10% or 15%.  Either that or let me put weapon adornments on the stupid thing and have them proc off my main hand weapon...

    No way.  This adornment should be deleted, left as is, or changed to something besides shield block.

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    Old 12-10-2008, 03:36 PM   #24
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    Lethe5683 wrote:

    Undorett wrote:

    For a fabled adornment, the T6 version should be 5% shield effectivness and the T8 version 10% or 15%.  Either that or let me put weapon adornments on the stupid thing and have them proc off my main hand weapon...

    No way.  This adornment should be deleted, left as is, or changed to something besides shield block.

    No one cares what you have to say because you poo poo on everything that may help a plate tank in any way.  Maybe someday they will bring back shields for brawlers and you can be happy again.  You tank with 2 weapons, we don't.  If there is a problem with your class, get it fixed and lay off.

    1% shield effectiveness for a fabled adornment is stupid, it's like paying 12 plat for +1 to deflection. 

    I am fine with 10%, just saying 10% SE is about equivlent to the T7 parry adorns for the wrists, not the T8.

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    Old 12-10-2008, 05:03 PM   #25
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    With the change to the mechanics of shield block (it being changed to shield effectiveness), this adornment needs some adjustment. As per usual, I can't promise when, but I have this on my list and will try to get it upgraded/changed as soon as possible.

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    Old 12-10-2008, 05:16 PM   #26
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    Thanks Fyreflyte, could we also get some upgrades to it in T7/T8?

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    Old 12-10-2008, 05:20 PM   #27
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    That would be up to Domino SMILEY I'll mention it to her.

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    Old 12-10-2008, 06:53 PM   #28
    Junaru

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    Well maybe you just rolled the wrong class. If you want to tank roll a Brawler else stop complaining..If the sheild adornment suck use another weapon.

    Sorry I felt the need to reverse what I have heard for years. You really should post this in the Monk forum. All the devs hang out there.

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    Old 12-10-2008, 07:25 PM   #29
    EQPrime

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    Fyreflyte wrote:

    With the change to the mechanics of shield block (it being changed to shield effectiveness), this adornment needs some adjustment. As per usual, I can't promise when, but I have this on my list and will try to get it upgraded/changed as soon as possible.

    Thank you for the reply.

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