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Old 12-06-2004, 09:14 AM   #1
Zorgnem

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I reached level 21 as a monk today, and decided it was time to check out the Thundering Steppes. I joined a group that was lacking a tank, so I was to fill that spot. Well I never had any problems with this before, so I happily started pulling some blue and some white con groups of gnolls from the crater below.
I felt like I got hit by a truck. Once they were upon me, I died before our healer had time to even react. It took less than 2 seconds to floor me, by 2 blue/white con gnolls. We tried a few more times, tried a few skeletons instead.. seemed to go fine for a few hits until *BAM* I go down in a matter of seconds again.
After this, it was decided to let the ranger tank. We did much better after that.
 
What am I doing wrong here?  I was dying so fast, not even 3 healers would have been able to keep me alive.. killed by even cons or less..
I've been loving brawler/monk so far, I played 2 other classes before settling on monk, and this experience is just ruining it for me. Shouldn't I be able to tank better than a ranger? Or at least withstand a few more seconds of attack from blue/white mobs?
 
This is one disheartened monk.. SMILEY
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:23 AM   #2
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How on earth were you out-tanked by a ranger? The only ways I can see this happening is:
 
- You didn't have brawler's stance up (this is extremely important, it buffs your deflection a lot and you should by no means be tanking without it)
- Your equipment really, really, really stinks (also very important, having even con equipment makes a big difference in AC)
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:45 AM   #3
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You should be able to tank those gnolls and skelletons nearby just fine
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Old 12-06-2004, 06:22 PM   #4
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They broke deflection in the last patch.  I can't tank either.  I think monks in the level 20-25 range have it pretty rough right now.  Since deflection (a damage reducing skill) is not functioning (says Moorgard), since level 20 mob damage was increased, and since we generally don't have such good armor at these levels, even blue con mobs can tear us apart with raw damage output. And YES I use all my buffs, and all of my group's buffs when tanking.
 
The armor issue is actually pretty bad.  There is great armor for higher level monks available on the merchants in town, and there is also great armor for lower level monks as well.  At level 20-25 there is nothing.  Either armor is red, or it is blue, there is no in between.  I suppose this is because they expect you to do the armor quests, but hey what armor  are you supposed to wear for said quests? Blue and green con armor?  This is an oversight I think.
 
I got so frustrated with the lack of robustness of a monk that I started a new character to keep me entertained until they fix us.  The sad thing is, inquisitors seem overpowered.  They can heal, buff/debuff, deal damage, and wear heavy armor.
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Old 12-07-2004, 12:23 AM   #5
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I had the same thing happen to me as a level 21 Monk in Stormhold. Our Guardian left and two Blue^ mobs spawned right on the Ranger. I taunted, got hit 8 times (4 from each mob), no misses, no blocks, no parries, full damage and was dead before the cleric got a heal off. The whole group was shocked at how fast it happened.
 
This was using Brawlers Stance, Staggering Stance, an Ashwood Buckler (it was before we got round shields) and most of my armour is orange. I died before I could get Martial Focus off :smileytongue:
 
The group then managed to take the mobs down with the Ranger tanking while I just lay on the floor.... not the greatest moment of my time in EQ2 :smileysad:
 
I did however manage to tank ok for the rest of the night. Most fights were fine but every so often I would take a lot of damage in a short period and nearly die.
 
I'll need to test again now Deflection has been fixed. I notice my deflection skill still reads 140/108 which, like the rest of you, I think is a bug. What I think went wrong is they upped you actual skill when you hit 20 instead of the cap. When you level normally, you don't automatically gain skill points, you just have the cap increased and you need to raise the actual skill level to match. I think they set the wrong number when you become a Monk and so the cap still increases by the normal amount when you ding, but the actual skill level won't change until the cap catches up.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the actual skill level you fight at is limited by the cap anyway and so we aren't getting any of the deflection bonus we should get at all i.e. the maximum a deflection skill a Monk gets at 21 is 108 regarless of what the figures on the skill page show. That could be complete bollocks though :smileytongue:
 
On armour; for levels 20-25 before you get your quested stuff, one of the armoursmiths in Qeynos Harbour sells Boiled Woven armour which caps out at level 30 and is orange to me at 21. It's on one of the merchants near the Graystone Yard entrance I think. It's not with the expensive vendors up by the arena.
 
 

Message Edited by Tenzan on 12-06-2004 11:24 AM

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Old 12-08-2004, 03:56 AM   #6
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Just my 2 cents.....
 
Everyone talking about getting level 21 and dying in places that you should be 21 to even be there.  Sure you can head out and hunt places with a good group and some righteous healers before you can solo the solo mobs, but dont be suprised when you die.  And no I dont wanna hear about how you or your friend were soloing centaur bosses in TS at level 5.  Just buy BOILED LEATHER armor on the baz...it will be orange to ya for a while. Try and keep all yer items orange.  I hunt SH and TS and at 24 its all good.  I can tank decently (not like a guardian). I still die though sometimes, esp when I get yellow/orange group mobs with two up arrows (multiple groups) beating on me at the same time.  It happens and you really need someone willing to concentrate on healing, not the "I'll toss you a heal now and then while I tank" type healer.  When i get hit, it is usually very hard and I almost die constantly, but watch any other tank class,  it is pretty much the same.  It all depends on your healer.  Basically get a good one or you are gonna die. 
 
Ever play with a guardian in your group?  Hrmm...I've done it once.  Now they can really tank!  However, how many guardians do you see out there.  1?  2?  Why arent there more guardians?  They take damage and taunt.  They dont deal much for dam compared to the other fighter classes.   They excel at keeping the party alive.  They dont have very cool animations.  HACK HACK TAUNT TAUNT...HRUMMPF!!! UGGH!!!  My guess would be because they arent very fun to play.  I am in no way putting down the guardian class.  In fact we need more of them out there so we monks can shine. 
 
So when  you start to feel bad about your monkness, just remember....you get decent dps, cool animations and monks are FUN to play.  If you want to play the UBER TANKZOR, then make a guardian.
 
 
 
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Old 12-08-2004, 04:17 AM   #7
Zorgnem

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bezltrikk wrote:
Just my 2 cents.....
 
Everyone talking about getting level 21 and dying in places that you should be 21 to even be there.  Sure you can head out and hunt places with a good group and some righteous healers before you can solo the solo mobs, but dont be suprised when you die.  And no I dont wanna hear about how you or your friend were soloing centaur bosses in TS at level 5.  Just buy BOILED LEATHER armor on the baz...it will be orange to ya for a while. Try and keep all yer items orange.  I hunt SH and TS and at 24 its all good.  I can tank decently (not like a guardian). I still die though sometimes, esp when I get yellow/orange group mobs with two up arrows (multiple groups) beating on me at the same time.  It happens and you really need someone willing to concentrate on healing, not the "I'll toss you a heal now and then while I tank" type healer.  When i get hit, it is usually very hard and I almost die constantly, but watch any other tank class,  it is pretty much the same.  It all depends on your healer.  Basically get a good one or you are gonna die. 
 
I'm wearing a full set of pristine boiled leather armor. I think I should be able to tank a level 20 mob at level 21, instead of getting killed in 3 hits. I'd settle for tanking decently, but right now I'm not tanking at all.
 
Ever play with a guardian in your group?  Hrmm...I've done it once.  Now they can really tank!  However, how many guardians do you see out there.  1?  2?  Why arent there more guardians?  They take damage and taunt.  They dont deal much for dam compared to the other fighter classes.   They excel at keeping the party alive.  They dont have very cool animations.  HACK HACK TAUNT TAUNT...HRUMMPF!!! UGGH!!!  My guess would be because they arent very fun to play.  I am in no way putting down the guardian class.  In fact we need more of them out there so we monks can shine. 
 
But if we're not supposed to tank, what are we supposed to do? Other professions have the damage, other professions have the utility, and I am feeling less than mediocre in every department. How can we shine when every other class outshines us.
 
So when  you start to feel bad about your monkness, just remember....you get decent dps, cool animations and monks are FUN to play.  If you want to play the UBER TANKZOR, then make a guardian.
 
Like I said, I'd settle for being able to tank decently. Right now it seems rangers outtank and outdamage me.
 



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Old 12-08-2004, 04:19 AM   #8
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Out tanked by a ranger?   Still have your Dagorels Brawlers tunic on?  
 
 
I have not grouped with a class yet that can out aggro me,  hell I get aggro when I'm tanking and not even taunting.   
 
 
I tank great,  sure I have times where the mob gets lucky and beats me down to 30% in a few hits.   When you are a monk you need to be quick to feign and shake a little aggro off you while you wait for a heal.
 
 
The bad thing is about being a Monk is that you are not guaranteed to survive a fight as a tank might with their mitigation,  so you have to adjust,  that is what FD is for..  Just make sure you have at least adept1
 
The great thing about being a monk is that we will out taunt anyone,   I have heard that scouts will out damage us but I havent seen that happen yet.  
 
 
 
I love being a Monk,  I am always at the center of the fight,  can pull mobs off of the finger-wigglers better than anyone,  and am by far the best puller in the game.
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Old 12-08-2004, 05:55 AM   #9
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Purculator, If your on Steamfont Ill bring my swashbuckler over and show you what damage is. SMILEY
 
I believe deflection is still busted at least I hope so.
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Old 12-08-2004, 09:59 AM   #10
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Yeah ..  I cant with till a PvP server comes around.....
 
 
 
Other than that,  I'm not afraid of a class that has to be "behind" the mob to do alot of damage...
 
 
you guys remind me of these two...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Swashbucklers.... lol
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:08 AM   #11
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first thing, i love your thought of them lol im cracking up so much lol. second order of thought here is, monk = tank? LOL. we are the DPS machines not tanks...
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:10 AM   #12
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oops dont mind this

Message Edited by Det'Re on 12-07-2004 10:10 PM

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Old 12-08-2004, 11:12 AM   #13
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HeHe you obviously dont know much about Swashbucklers. SMILEY Yea some of our attacks are from behind but we also have great infront attacks as well as mez, knockdown - stun, and interupt attacks and great ranged attacks, Thats not even mentioning poisons that can proc for 50 a tick with good DD damage as well. SMILEY
 
Anyway this isnt a mines bigger then yours contest.
 
Monks roll in this game is still to be seen are we tanks or are we DPS, I think right now we are mediocre tanks and OK DPS. If they fix deflection maybe we will be good tanks with the best dps of fighters but monks will never match a scouts DPS.
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Old 12-08-2004, 11:39 AM   #14
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monk = tank? LOL. we are the DPS machines not tanks...


With mentalities like these coming from our ranks, its no small wonder that groups overlook us when they need a MA.
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Old 12-08-2004, 01:24 PM   #15
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agreed i3... i tanked EL and Zek boats today just fine SMILEYnot just fine actually, tanked them great, not one loss!

Message Edited by SomeDudeCRO on 12-08-2004 12:25 AM

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Old 12-10-2004, 06:34 AM   #16
Det'

 
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but its true we are the one melee class that is not ment to tank, we are the DPS machines. im telling him out right. no need to beat aroudn the bush. pali and guardian are the tanks not us.
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Old 12-10-2004, 07:15 AM   #17
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Det'Re wrote:
but its true we are the one melee class that is not ment to tank, we are the DPS machines. im telling him out right. no need to beat aroudn the bush. pali and guardian are the tanks not us.


You are WRONG.  Moorgard has stated many, many times that all fighter classes can tank.  I ROUTINELY tank for my group.  We make just fine tanks.
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Old 12-10-2004, 07:16 AM   #18
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We might not be the greatest tanks currently, but we are supposed to be on par with the other fighters.  See my sig for a quote from Moorgard.
 
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Old 12-10-2004, 07:27 PM   #19
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MissPickle wrote:
We might not be the greatest tanks currently, but we are supposed to be on par with the other fighters.  See my sig for a quote from Moorgard.
 



We're as close as we're going to get.

We tank quite well in most situations.  Some situations you'll want a guardian or paladin tanking, though.  While we're not the best tanks, we make up for it with great DPS (for a fighter class) and the ability to hold aggro (in most situations).  Healers just need to work a little differently with a monk tanking.  It may be that some of the poor tanking ability that some people are seeing is due to some healers thinking that monks should tank like guardians, and heal them accordingly.

That's definately not the case.  Guardians have damage mitigation that is always constant, which makes healing for them more predictable.  Monks have random damage spikes, which some healers just aren't prepared for and suddenly the monk's dead, and so is the group.

Wards are a monk's best friend.  I tank great with a shaman friend on my group and mediocre in other groups who aren't use to monks tanking.

As a side note, I can still tank even with a guardian in my group.  I've done it before and it works quite well.  Have the gaurdian/paladin intervene/protect you and let you tank, have a shaman ward you.  Your high deflection/avoidance will allow you to take less damage, and the big damage hits will be partial absorbed by the guardian/paladin.  The wards will absorb damage and leave the healer with a good deal of power so that you can plow through XP quickly.  I say experiment with your group member's abilities and find new ways to work together.

Oh and remember to ask for agility buffs, they help a lot too SMILEY

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Old 12-10-2004, 09:07 PM   #20
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WackyDakky wrote:

We're as close as we're going to get.



I'm actually hoping that when they fix deflection, that will help put us in the perfect spot tanking-wise.
 
My fiance plays a shaman and we always group together.  Sometimes we duo and sometimes we look for a larger group.  When we duo, I have no trouble tanking as long as we don't pull something that we shouldn't.  :smileywink:  In a group, we normally have a plate tank, but my fiance actually prefers it when I tank.  His wards last longer on me, which gives him more time to debuff and dot and do whatever else shaman can do.
 
I remember not that long ago, we got a group in TS.  We had 2 shaman, me (monk), a plate tank, and 2 dps classes.  The plate tank had to leave, so the leader decided to hold the last spot for a "real" tank.  In the meantime, I was pulling and tanking for the group.  I did so well that the leader just filled the last spot with another dps.  He was shocked that monks could tank so well!  I was so proud.  :smileyhappy:
 
I'm pretty happy with where my monk is currently.  But I'm only level 22 and I am fortunate enough to always have at least one shaman in my groups.  It's just going to take some time to convince people that monks really do make decent tanks, and we'll only get better when SOE gets the last little bugs ironed out.
 
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Old 12-10-2004, 09:59 PM   #21
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I am a lvl 19 Bralwer, soon to be monk. SMILEY  I was just in TS last night fighting those same Gnolls for the first part of my Monk quest.    They were yellow to me.  We had a full group; me, Pally, Druid, Templar, Predator, and a Soercer. Pally started oof as Mt, but was getting beat up and couldn't hold agroe.Healers, a Druid and Templar, were getting agroed. Pally diad on one of the pulls, so I had to step up as MT.  After that the group asked me to MT. I cast staggering stance on main healer and pulled.  We had no problems! Didn't die once and with shout I didn't have any trouble maitaining agro.  Every now and then i would get that damage spike, but Druid regen made it so that was not an issue.  Granted, that pally might have had crappy gear, but i had no trouble out tanking a pally last night who was equal lvl to me.  Huh!!!  People say Monks/Bralwers cant tank? 
 
Note:  He was LVL 19, so technically he was a crusader.
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