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Old 10-10-2014, 05:04 AM   #1
Enigma

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maybe having it scale with potency again would be lovely Smile or lower the base reuse to 2mins.
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Old 10-15-2014, 05:25 PM   #2
Iseous

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Lifeburn definitely needs some help. With higher potency, crit bonus, doublecast, etc., it's not really worth casting. And now with the new crits, it's going to be even worse to cast because it doesn't crit. This ability definitely needs to be changed to take into account all of those stats, and obviously health. Undead horde also needs its base reuse adjusted... 5 minutes is ridiculous. Conjuror's Communion is only 1 minute reuse.
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Old 10-15-2014, 11:49 PM   #3
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100% this man! please devs take a look at lifeburn and undead horde!
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:34 AM   #4
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+++ yes please look at lifeburn an undead horde, ty Smile
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:11 PM   #5
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Aye, with spell double attack approaching 100% in raid (without time warp) and crit bonus and potency spiking well over 2k, lifeburn has fallen out of my top 20 on many fights. Meanwhile, elemental blast hovers around the top 3. As already stated, lifeburn needs to not only crit and be affected by all the other inflated stats, but also needs the health requirement removed..not fair that we're the only dps class that has to wear max hp gear and sacrifice a bunch of other stats for one spell. In addition, just one of communion's pets (assassin) does more damage than all 14 undead horde's pets.
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:37 PM   #6
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Then you sir are itemizing wrong Smile. None of the top end necroes have been wearing max hp gear since the avatar neck change. Also you are comparing an expertise ability, lifeburn, to an end line, elemental blast. Just like every other class, the expertise are not game changing but can help you.
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Old 10-16-2014, 06:59 PM   #7
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True the abilities come from different spots, but that doesn't mean they aren't comparable. A lot of abilities between necros/conj can be compared. Blighted Horde -> Aqueous Swarm, Awakened Grave -> Roaring Flames, Undead Horde -> Communion, Graverot -> Planar Wrack, and obviously Soulburn -> Soulburn. I would say Lifeburn is closest to Elemental Blast; they both have 10 hits too.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:19 PM   #8
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Let's compare soul rot to crystal blast... never mind, i'm not going to waste my time comparing two things that are worlds apart from each other.

Point is - people need to compare classes as a whole instead of ability to ability.

Necromancers debuff the max hp of mobs. This same tactic was used to balance scouts. It is extremely short sighted and not entertaining for anyone. The fact remains that a single necromancer spell (Mortality Mark) is more powerful than elemental blast AND life burn while in a raid setting.
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:06 AM   #9
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I agree 100%, max hp debuffs should not be used for class balance. I also agree life burn needs to be revamped... again.

However, the abilities you are qualifying as "filler abilities" are doing the majority of your dps. They are amazing spells because of their reuse. Soulrot does literally do 2-3x the dps of crystal blast, so to me, that is "worlds" apart. If you would like to compare parses, feel free to PM me and I will show you the #'s.
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:16 AM   #10
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I said soulrot is better and I meant they are comparable because of how they are used, not that they are the same in terms of effectiveness. For instance, Blighted Horde and Aqueous Swarm are both on the same reuse, cast, duration, and they summon 3 limited pets. Soulrot and Crystal Blast are comparable like that, and sure soulrot is a DOT, but the duration is pretty much instant.

But as far as casting efficiency goes, soulrot is way worse than pretty much everything except lifetap, bloodcloud, and pandemic on single target. So sure, it shows up on the parse because there's nothing else to cast, but as far as being amazing in the sense that it does high damage per cast time, it's not even close to some abilities like rot flesh, dumbfires, or soulburn. And it definitely should not be better than lifeburn, although sadly in a raid setting with high pot/cb/dc, even soulrot is almost on par with lifeburn in terms of casting efficiency (unless you gear for %HP, which hurts every other one of your spells, and thus not worth it), which is something that should not be the case at all considering the high reuse and riskiness of lifeburn.
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:14 AM   #11
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Let's forget about comparing abilities to counterpart classes(conjy/necro) there is still a issue of balance...both type of summoners are behind in terms of dps when compared to an actual other class such as sorcerer's. Just because we get a max hp debuff(which i rather they remove) does not mean lifeburn and undead horde should remain unchanged. Lifeburn is in need of serious scaling buffing and undead horde just needs a lower base reuse to 2mins.
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:31 AM   #12
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Soulrot is better than Crystal Blast for sure, but it's a filler ability. The only reason it shows up on the parse is because necros have like 4 spells on relatively low recast (same with Conj), so it is the most cast spell. That doesn't mean it's an amazing spell, it's just that there's nothing else to cast. But the two abilities are definitely comparable and not worlds apart. Same recast, cast time, single target.

But Lifeburn and Elemental Blast aren't just filler abilities, and they were supposed to be good damage. Lifeburn is probably the most well-known Necromancer ability, same with Elemental Blast for Conjurors. Whenever anyone hears Necromancer, they think Lifeburn. Whenever anyone hears Conjuror, they think Elemental Blast. And considering it is a necro's longest casting, 2nd highest reuse, and probably the riskiest spell to cast of just about any class, it is a bit underwhelming how much damage it does. Same with Manaburn. Both need adjusting for current stats.

And max hp debuffs are a lame attempt at balance. DPS classes should do DPS; so their damage abilities should be adjusted for balance.
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:43 AM   #13
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Yeah, sorry if I implied I was still wearing max hp gear. Not looking for lifeburn to be op, just scale with gear upgrades. Also, mainly the reason for the comparison of LB/EB, was their proximity on the parse and the fact that devs chose both as THE spell to have a chance for early reset in the prestige tree.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:13 AM   #14
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%hp doesn't actually increase the damage of lifeburn, by the by. Scaling's completely broken. My Lifeburn damage went down when Sanctify was cast on me.
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:23 PM   #15
Iseous

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Well, even more of a reason not to wear that gear lol. Does it only take into account your HP before %HP increases or something?
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