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Old 03-29-2011, 12:36 PM   #1
Rhita
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You had said you were going to make gear more desireable. I guess I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up. I logged in today to find that weapons, shields, and bows were modifyed. Which is good, but still there are legendary pieces from easy dungeons that are better then my x4 raid stuff. You didnt even make the x4 raid rings better, you just nerfed the ones out of the x2. None of the fighter set pieces (earing, ring, wrist) got any kind of revamp. They all still suck and are not worth wearing at the loss of so much multi attack and crit. The fighter BP got better, I might actually wear it now. Charms still are horrible, and the hard mode charm is worse than the easy mode charm. Not to mention there is a legendary charm that blows both of my raid charms away. Also, no bow that I own can even be adorned anymore, ive tried 2 kinds of adornments, says it cant be done. Might want to fix that. You did manage to give fighter wrist easy mode a set bonus, too bad only one named drops one wrist, and no one else drops the other. Lastly, the fighter earing set, still isn't a set, not that id give up SF earings due to the loss of so many stats.

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Old 03-29-2011, 12:46 PM   #2
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A couple of mage raid gear changes adding cast speed that the vast majority of raiding mages are easily capped on, great addition. Are you purposely trying to point out that your dev team has not, does not, and never will actually play this game?

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Old 03-29-2011, 12:48 PM   #3
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Felt like more nerfs today then boosts.

Xalgoti's Ring of the Shadowbeast - lost 9 multiBlood Pearl Band - lost 9 multi

Sword of the Dead - gained 15 multi

There are not that many rings to choose from (raid); 2 from the x2, 1 from x4 (easy), 1 from x4 (hard). Bows can no longer accept white adornments. My x2 and x4 (easy) wrists and ears haven't changed at all from what I can tell, and are still very bland.

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Old 03-29-2011, 12:53 PM   #4
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Want to buy Itemization Devs that actually know and understand the game!Maybe that even actually, -gasp-, play it?

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:04 PM   #5
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Really a great disappointment, except the weapons/bows/shields, that are now better, because put some MA on the raid items. The x2 belt still has less MA than the x4 EM belt, my heroic bow has more crit then raid bows, HM rings have the same MA like SF easy mode rings, raid earrings have no MA at all, while heroic items have 24 MA, wrist raid items have no MA but useless DPS mod, while legendary have 24 MA. Velious neck pieces have less potency than SF neck pieces. Forearm items have no potency. 6 mitigation increase on my legendary shoulders were removed. Really a great disappointment.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:05 PM   #6
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Please tell me this is not it. I still have to wear legendary items cause your fable blows. I mean really come the hell on play the [Removed for Content] game and learn what the hell you are doing. This is making me sick.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:11 PM   #7
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The best part is now that this is out in the open, they will go nerf the legendary gear so the fabled with 0 MA is better. That will be the last straw imo.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:17 PM   #8
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Friged Defender (shield) - lost 12 multiBattlerager's Frozen Tower Shield (fabled) - lost 14 multi

I can understand that a few non-raid pieces were out of whack but several of those legendary pieces have remained unchanged while high end non-raid gear and x2 gear have lost a lot today.

I like what youve done to the Sword of the Dead, but in the process 4 or 5 other pieces of gear I use went down not up.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:17 PM   #9
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Still not seeing very many reasons to run a group instance when I can just afk for 55 minutes, come back at the top of the hour for a quick solo PQ run with 40 or 50 other people, and wind up with better gear. 

And yay, Xalgoti's ring now makes a fine addition to my bag o' resist gear.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:18 PM   #10
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Well if this is it for changes - i guess tanks still sport easy instance gear instead of the x2 and x4 jewelry.

So far as a tank i see as many nerfs as buffs.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:25 PM   #11
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You had to know itemization changes announced and delivered so rapidly would be complete fail.

SoE repeatedly demonstrates it takes months and months for their team to figure out and fix itemization.

All I have to say, is as a developer, their itemization code must be crazy over-complicated for things to be so persistently delayed and so persistently flawed.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:26 PM   #12
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Ironcleaver wrote:

Friged Defender (shield) - lost 12 multiBattlerager's Frozen Tower Shield (fabled) - lost 14 multi

I can understand that a few non-raid pieces were out of whack but several of those legendary pieces have remained unchanged while high end non-raid gear and x2 gear have lost a lot today.

I like what youve done to the Sword of the Dead, but in the process 4 or 5 other pieces of gear I use went down not up.

Holy crap, I just spent all my cloudy jewels on dwarf faction to get the Frozen Shield a few days ago. SMILEY

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:38 PM   #13
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Please go back and take a look at my original post. I did say that we were being "intentionally conservative" with these changes and that this we're likely to do a second pass after judging the impact of the first changes. Hang in there.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:42 PM   #14
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I'm sure this item will just get nerfed now but its worth a try I guess, kinda a last ditch hope.

Rings

aITEM 1663103994 -630673654:Signet of the Battlerager/a Dungeon

VS

aITEM 455258683 -1832665475:Splintered Gem of Freezing Winds/a Easy Mode

aITEM -374041083 -1720416321:Ring of Deathless Fealty/a Easy Mode

aITEM -672958734 131037690:Ring of the Sleetsaber Guard/a Hard Mode

aITEM 628445900 -1559442582:Ring of Undying Fealty/a Hard Mode

aITEM 1798321924 -125705899:Ring of Dain Frostreaver VI/a Sig Quest Reward

Charms

aITEM -965290157 108407571:Tattered Emblem of Rank/a Dungeon

VS

aITEM 2089573021 1346952129:War Shard of the Temple/a Easy Mode

aITEM -1941350261 1056014963:Fragmented Token of Loyalty/a Easy Mode

aITEM 416709992 1407440612:War Shard of Zek/a Hard Mode

aITEM -401375362 2016784126:A Cold Flamed Torch/a Hard Mode

Ears

aITEM 1335996241 1970912056:Earthen Earring/a Dungeon

VS

aITEM 1411109502 -1451930900:Hoop of the Kromzek King/a Easy Mode

aITEM 1827094516 2020664201:Stud of Valdemar/a Easy Mode

aITEM 1567099629 -1937872330:Razor Edged Stud of Valdemar/a Hard Mode

aITEM 1704257383 1971734852:Stud of Sharded Lightning/a Hard Mode

I am very sorry that these non raid items will be nerfed now guys, this was not my intent, but this is just a sample on how messed up itemization really it. I cant even look forward to Hard Mode gear because legendary is so much better. While i know the loss of HP might hurt a bit, a tank that cant hold aggro is worthless. I am not asking for 50 MA per piece. I am asking that I look forward to putting in my time to raiding.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:44 PM   #15
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SmokeJumper wrote:

We are bumping up the power of Velious dungeon and raid items.  We’re doing this to make those items more competitive when compared with Public Quest items, because instances are tougher than the PQs and deserve better rewards. This does include shard armors.We are also going to bump up the power of hard-mode raid loot so hard modes are even more rewarding, as they require significant time and effort to beat.  NOTE: This doesn’t include war runes since they are already quite powerful.The net result of these changes makes dungeons and raids a bit more rewarding and also balances things out so that people with a full public quest set will be able to find solid item upgrades in dungeons.

These changes will occur next week sometime. If they happen sooner than that, we'll let you know.

This was the original - correct?

Besides how hard is it to tell loosing MA on fighter gear is a nerf?

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:44 PM   #16
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Please go back and take a look at my original post. I did say that we were being "intentionally conservative" with these changes and that this we're likely to do a second pass after judging the impact of the first changes. Hang in there.

Intentionally conservative by just completely skipping things like scout 6.0 weapons? Or maybe the fighter set ears? Or maybe the fact that there isn't a raid dropped neck, or a second wrist to complete the set bonus it has? Or maybe it was in breaking bows so that they can't take white adorns?

Conservative...... Right.......

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:47 PM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

Besides how hard is it to tell loosing MA on fighter gear is a nerf?

Tank gear with DPS stats seems to be outside of the design/intent for tank itemization going forward...

Its been obvious since beta opened up that is where they were designing for, and nothing about what has been posted indicates to me they've changed their minds on that.

If we can't have MA, then we need other effects that really compensate for the aggro loss.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:49 PM   #18
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Please go back and take a look at my original post. I did say that we were being "intentionally conservative" with these changes and that this we're likely to do a second pass after judging the impact of the first changes. Hang in there.

The heavy handed gear stat changes (nerfs) were not particularly conservative.

Why do we have this heavy handed approach, then a conservative approach to cleaning up the mess ?

The platitudes are getting old, really fast.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:51 PM   #19
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Please go back and take a look at my original post. I did say that we were being "intentionally conservative" with these changes and that this we're likely to do a second pass after judging the impact of the first changes. Hang in there.

Smokejumper,  thanks for commenting and the intention of your changes.  There is alot of frustration around lately for numerous reasons.  The status of some servers and their lag issue (which is now to the forefronth with PQs, it was in the past mostly noticeable by raiders), the issues with itemization in DoV seems worse than ever before (and im sure you have reasoning for it), and I think just an overall combination of all the issues we've seen in EQ2 in the last 2-3 years.

I have been a loyal SOE customer since EQ1 beta.  I have not once cancelled my sub, even if I didnt play as much some months, I still held my account active, and at times even had the Station Access account.  So if I do the math, I'm pretty invested in SOE and EQ2, as I'm sure many other long standing account holders are.  Think that is why we are most frustrated.  We have so much invested and it seems the return has been dimishing each year.

I personally want EQ2 to grow and get better, but it wont without some serious changes.  Server issues, and an Item Dev or a better process to create and balance items, are must haves and soon.  Everyone is a bit frustrated with waiting or hoping for things to get better.  If things wont get better, it would be nice to be informed, even though I dont think this will happen, it would be appreciated from myself and many long time customers.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:53 PM   #20
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Please go back and take a look at my original post. I did say that we were being "intentionally conservative" with these changes and that this we're likely to do a second pass after judging the impact of the first changes. Hang in there.

I used to work in an office building with a motto posted on the wall "If you don't have time to do it right the first time, how are you going to find time to do it again?"

Seems to me it would be a lot easier to do something properly the first time instead of making pass after pass changing loot. Looking at the Kael loot and the PQ loot again it is obvious that the PQ gear is still superior. PQ ones have haste, more mitigation, multi attack and defense. All that got bumped on the Kael gear was the critical mitigation by a massive 1 point. Took you all a week to figure out 7+1?

So, how many passes are we talking before gear gets in line 8? 10? A year's worth?

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:54 PM   #21
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U'd think they'd do a progression on pieces

so lets say  solo quest items start at 8 multi attack

heroic and heroic quests is from 9 multi to 14

raid is from 15 to 20

Right now it goes

solo quest 20 multi

raid 8 multi attack..

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:55 PM   #22
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I would also like to remind you again similar concerns were brought up in beta.

178.8 DPS self-buffed is really the way to go to help me hold aggro as a tank.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:56 PM   #23
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Please go back and take a look at my original post. I did say that we were being "intentionally conservative" with these changes and that this we're likely to do a second pass after judging the impact of the first changes. Hang in there.

This was with respect to the zone nerfs forthcoming, not the itemization changes.

The itemization changes thread doesn't go into that kind of detail, but it does make mention that we should be seeing the itemization changes this week if not sooner (posted last week)

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=497976

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:56 PM   #24
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Please go back and take a look at my original post. I did say that we were being "intentionally conservative" with these changes and that this we're likely to do a second pass after judging the impact of the first changes. Hang in there.

No you didnt say that - you said that when refering to nerfing how hard the instances where not for gear changes. Because atm conservative changes is not what we need. We need this stuff fixed and a items dev that knows what the hell they are doing or at least plays the [Removed for Content] game.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:58 PM   #25
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[email protected] wrote:

If we can't have MA, then we need other effects that really compensate for the aggro loss.

I agree completely. I really do not mind the loss of Multi attack but for the fact damage is still lthe best source of hate. Would you rather auto attack (get a multi attack with possible AE-auto, then add in procs) for around 40 to 60k+ damage - or - toss a single 12 to 20k taunt, or a 8 to 15k encounter taunt.

I do not want to do damage as a tank, and these we seem to agree upon as far as itemization goes in velious - but please boost our taunts and other tools then.

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:59 PM   #26
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Well my forum search for "intentionally conservative" came back with 0 results.

Not that i expect anything to work correctly anymore.

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Old 03-29-2011, 02:00 PM   #27
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Please go back and take a look at my original post. I did say that we were being "intentionally conservative" with these changes and that this we're likely to do a second pass after judging the impact of the first changes. Hang in there.

I understand conservative, but nothing was upgraded except for weapons, shields, and bows. While they were nice upgrades, you still ninja nerfed x2 gear. Didn't even boost anymore raid gear aside from what I already listed. I really hope you plan to add more changes.

As for a direct question to you SmokeJumper, do you guys plan to put the missing Neck and Wrist item on a mob? At the moment there are no EM Necks off any mob, and one of the Wrists are missing from game as well.

aITEM 1729903615 -1209499427:Bangle of Falling Stars/a Missing Wrist

aITEM -995735835 979702660:Torque of the Imperator's Touch/a Missing Neck

Judging by the name of the Neck, its supposed to be off the same mob who drops shoulders in Halls of Legends.

The Wrist i'd guess easy mode Kraytoc's somewhere. (I know these are only the fighter pieces, I dont know the name of the others. But fighter, scout, priest, mage are all missing their Neck and Second Wrist items. Please fix this)

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Old 03-29-2011, 02:02 PM   #28
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btw sorry for my rhetoric in this thread but I am just tired and sick of it. I am to the point where I just want to say screw it and stop even wanting to wait for a change. If this was like a only sometimes thing it would be diffrent but its all the [Removed for Content] time. Its like none of your team plays this game or if they do its for 10 min so they can say hey...i have a toon.v =/

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Old 03-29-2011, 02:03 PM   #29
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I'm the wrong guy to try to answer your questions, but I've forwarded this thread to those in charge of itemization and they'll write a response soon. There weren't supposed to be nerfs, so I'm trying to find out why that occurred.

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Old 03-29-2011, 02:04 PM   #30
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Please go back and take a look at my original post. I did say that we were being "intentionally conservative" with these changes and that this we're likely to do a second pass after judging the impact of the first changes. Hang in there.

Your recent comment about conservative changes was made in your post about dungeon balance. That post didn't mention itemization. Your post about itemization changes suggested that items would see a boost, not a nerf...so I'm not sure where conservative comes into it anyway...
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