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Old 10-27-2015, 02:23 AM   #61
Yards

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Currently in Beta focused casting is capping both cb and pot to 3k. I am over 3k potency and when I hit fc it goes down to exactly 3k so its basically lowering my dps when I use it atm.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:05 AM   #62
Foretold

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Jeebus H.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:50 AM   #63
Azhurial

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After seeing some of the gear available even at the solo level, it looks like anyone will be able to reach 100% doublecast pretty easily. If this is the path for itemization, and triplecast will truly never be a thing, I hope there is a plan for some change to Time Warp and maybe even Time Compression.
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:58 PM   #64
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Mage dps is gonna totally wreck scout dps. Hemotoxin is being destroyed so no more assassin #1
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Old 10-28-2015, 04:27 AM   #65
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That is a bug with conversions spreading the cap like a virus. There is no potency cap, and the bug will be fixed shortly.
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Old 10-28-2015, 10:34 AM   #66
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Not to put a needle in an already blown up balloon, but did raid testing tonight in some of the new raid zones and I really think the so called nerf to FC was not overdone in my opinion. Our warlock still did some comparable numbers in raid and still is toping the parse but not necessarily doubling everyone else's parses. I see this change as a good change because it makes things more inline for good competition and not just Warlocks doing over the top numbers.

On a side note: That Beastlord dps now, all I can say is wow. Good change, our beastlord put up some really good numbers. Still waiting to see assassin numbers since our assassin couldn't make it last night. But from what I saw last night in raid, I truly didn't see "the sky is falling" like a lot of people are screaming and thinking.

And, Gninja and anyone else involved in creating the raid content we tested, you guys did a hell of a job, I really enjoyed the encounters, it added some real spice into raid fights. The content we tested was really fun and I am looking forward to release and the new encounters.
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Old 10-30-2015, 10:29 PM   #67
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With the high stat inflation and new gear, the Illuionists need some stat changes Spells and Abilities to still be good utility.

Time Warp
Like Azhurial mentioned there's really no benefit with Time Warp in ToT when it is so easily achievable to obtain 100% double cast with the new gear. Triple Cast would be ideal or at least modifying Time Warp to add either additional DOTs and ticks like it does currently for Theorems and Prismatic Chaos. Or even a 25-100% Spell base damage increase would still make it relevant.

Flash of Brilliance VII
This spell has needed an overhaul for awhile. When quest line gear can get you up to 15K of your primary attribute the 288.3 stat boost (Grandmastered) and 98.8 increase in magical skill isn't going to be that effective with the current diminish return curve on the primary attribute. With Prestige AA specced for Power of the Soul or the Accuracy from Strength you will get a whole extra 2.3% pot & crit bonus with this spell active. Would be much more effective utility spell if:
A) The primary stats from Spell were 10X more powerful i.e. 2883 INT grandmastered for a whole 23% Pot/CB with AAs.
B) Alternatively were percentage based i.e. 10% primary stat increase

Dismay VII
79.1 melee skill debuff grandmastered... Seriously? Needs serious inflation or be percentage based i.e. 7.91% melee skill debuff.

Nightmare VIII
Grandmastered with AAs giving 100% mit reduction it gives around 4K arcane debuff. All jewelry thus far seems to have gotten well over a 4K increase I'd imagine encounters have much higher resists as well. This would be much more effective again being 2-4% arcane debuff.


Pretty much all of our group buffs, power regens, etc. will most likely need a stat inflation as well. Or make us more Tier 1 DPS please and give us a nice base damage increase like you've done for scouts. Without improving our utility or base damage stats, well we'd be stuck with mimicry for DPS and hope this xpac has more encounters that requires us to be actively be using our mezzing and mem wipe abilities to stay relevant.
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Old 10-31-2015, 02:37 AM   #68
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Pretty much this. At the very least.
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:31 PM   #69
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Enchanters Focused Feedback

Base weapon damage should be in line with other classes by now. By default ranged damage should be on par with the other scouts and mages, and Quickening should grant the enchanter a melee base on par with scouts and fighters(not including AAs/Buffs). With the exception of priests, and not taking AAs into consideration Enchanters have half the base damage as all other classes in game. As a result stats like Flurry, WDB/SWDB, and, Crit Bonus grant half the value for enchanters when compared to any other class, excluding priests.

IMO this is a simple change that is long overdue. Ranged damage for summoners and sorcerers was increased to be on par with all other DPS classes shortly after ToV release date.
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Old 10-31-2015, 11:03 PM   #70
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Of course he thinks the changes to warlocks are "perfect". He hasn't shut up about nerfing me since... forever. I'm glad you're happy with the changes, Giggs, I really am.
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Old 11-01-2015, 06:11 AM   #71
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I'm not sure how you can think warlocks are still going to be putting out comparable numbers. It seems in this expansion 3k cb is going to be easily obtained with the infusing system. If we look at what fc is going to give with max cb it is a pretty gloomy picture. With maxed out cb of 3k, fc will turn into a static 750 potency for 10 seconds every 2.5 min. For an easy comparison this is going to be at the very least 2.5 times less effective than spellbind with the ability to scale to be even less effective. It would not be so bad if the warlock class did not depend so much on fc to be able to compete with t1. The only positive thing warlocks have is that they all can betray to wizard. Warlocks dps will be going backwards this expansion and will turn into the next beastlord because the devs do not know how to balance classes they simply nerf a class so bad as to where it is unplayable.
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:08 AM   #72
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As I stated in my post, I saw with my own eyes during a raid in the new expansion that warlocks are still putting out comparable numbers. That is how I can think that warlocks are still going to be putting out comparable numbers.

It is not as grim as some are making it out to be. As far as warlocks being so dependent on FC, I really did not see such a huge decrease in dps other than on trash where warlocks are not hitting astronomical numbers. I would highly recommend that some people give it a chance and test it out in a raid before jumping on the "oh my God the warlocks are going to be a dead class" bandwagon. After testing it in a raid, if you feel it needs some adjustments, then make some suggestions, but until it is accurately tested, nothing that has been said is nothing more than a great deal of assumptions of what the class is going to be like.

And I still remember people, primarily Warlocks, posting all over the summoner changes forums when Elemental Toxicity was first introduced with its changes hollering for a nerf of it and that it was too powerful, blah blah blah, and then it was nerfed to all hell. Well welcome to the crowd. So to be honest, I really don't feel much compassion to those complaining about this change to FC. It was in serious need of being changed and if you don't believe that, then you are really fooling yourself.
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:28 AM   #73
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Gigglezzz ur missing the point you are looking at DPS based on current gear with a cap of 3k CB. So your observation is only based on now not where this is going.

When every other class has hit cap and as Yards pointed out then FC become a fix pot based ability with a limited recast. So no over time there is a bigger nerf to FC.

So making conclusions about where we are now with the cap and assuming everything is going to fine means your not looking pass a few raids that showed a lock doing ok.
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:36 AM   #74
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The whole argument though is still based on assumptions though. No one really knows how the locks will perform in this new expansion. We can only base things right now on how things are now, so everyone is playing the guessing game of how it is going to be. Again, I recommend that maybe some of the locks complete the current beta sig line and adventurer quests and gear a lock up as much as possible with the new gear (which is better in a lot of regards to the live raid gear minus the mitigation values). Then make logical suggestions for changes or adjustments. Until that is done, there is really is nothing to base an argument on except for how people "think" warlocks will perform.
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:41 AM   #75
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BTW, I really wish I was able to hit 3k crit bonus even with the new beta gear from heroics/advanced solos, so feel lucky in that regard.
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Old 11-01-2015, 02:51 PM   #76
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I've had this argument with Gigglezzz NUMEROUS times since the the cap was mentioned. He doesn't seem to understand that once warlocks hit the 3K cap, FC is essentially useless. For a burst damage class, our burst damage is gone.

I hadn't hit the 3K cap in our test raid the other night, with all temps going (and in QUEST gear) I was at 2900 CB. So with heroic gear, I will be capped out and unable to get any more use out of FC.

By the time I get to raid gear, FC will be a 25% pot boost and nothing more.

But he doesn't GET that, because he can't see past his warlock hate. Hey, I can clear trash better than anyone!! Whoot go me. I need a nerf that DESTROYS my class defining spell.

And I can't wizard for shiz.
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Old 11-01-2015, 07:01 PM   #77
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actually your wrong again. Who says we haven't done that.

For those locks that have reached the cap in raid during the spike every +cb of new gear is pointless as 95% of the locks damage is still in the spike. Its capped and a ceiling is now in place for DPS. So the double wammy is now and will be more obvious no guessing actually happening.
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Old 11-02-2015, 01:25 AM   #78
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Thank you Enigma, For speaking up
The nerfing of warlocks FC is long overdue its been broken and way overpowered for years. Reducing the huge spike damage is exactly what was needed, thank you for finally listening Devs. Most other dps classes APPLAUD this change. Take your nerf medicine, just like the summoners had to when they nerfed elemental toxicity, it sucks but has to be done to make the game enjoyable for everyone not just the few.
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:10 AM   #79
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thank you.

Whatever the reasons for this cap are, in case there will not be any changes to the cb cap I suggest that all excess cb is added 1:1 to potency.
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:52 PM   #80
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Since when can fc get reset by ethereal weapon, where do you come up with this nonsense?
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Old 11-02-2015, 02:59 PM   #81
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Well I don't have the ethereal but from my understanding or at least I was told that FC is reset by:

aITEM 1650284571 1507732393:Essence of Duality/a

If not, I stand corrected. Guess an assumption on my part BigGrin
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:30 PM   #82
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Yards come on just be honest don't spin with half truths, technically your correct but you know what Gigglezzz means.
1. Ranged mage ethereal weapon my not reset FC directly, but it does reset the spell on your hot bar that has a chance to reset the warlocks FC ability.
2. This is completely ridiculous and overpowered, again any summoner wearing the mage ranged ethereal gets none of its big spells reset and in addition it doesn't reset blazing avatar the conjuror spell that has a small chance to reset elemental blast.

3. This has all been a good discussion to air the warlock changes, but the fact is this change is necessary for the good of the game, Warlocks will still most likely be the top mage dps with the highest potential, but hopefully now your not going to be double the parse of other dps classes, competition always makes the game better. And if it lowers warlocks dps and your no longer the top mage dps, than that's also a good thing, let other classes shine for a couple xpacs
4. Again all the non warlock dps classes I talk with in guilds and server APPLAUD the needed change to FC.
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Old 11-02-2015, 05:06 PM   #83
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The ethereal resets a spell that a good warlock won't cast unless at certain number of increments and depending on when tw is going to be cast. Apoc is on like a 22 second recast so the fact that you think it being reset by ethereal and having a 10% chance to reset fc makes it op is laughable.

If your warlock is doing double that of the other t1's I'd suggest getting better players. I know not everyone can raid with top end players but don't destroy a class because other people are bad. Basing a warlocks potential on a 30 second parse is irrevlevent. On longer fights a warlocks dps is in line with most the other dps. For example on Brell which is like an 11 min fight i never top the parse. The assasin sits at 1 followed by conj then maybe warlock.
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Old 11-02-2015, 05:12 PM   #84
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Seriously, Gigglezzz has a personal problem with my DPS, his opinion should actually count for jack squat. I'm not saying that FC wasn't overpowered before... I'm saying with the CB cap its been nerfed into the dirt. When I hit 3000 CB, I will be taking my class's defining ability OFF MY HOTBAR.

I don't mind the change to FC, I rather like it. Its the fact that its 100% based off CB.. that CAPS... that is unacceptable. Either remove the cap, or base it of off something else - POT? Maybe?

FFS. You will never get that. How about you main change to a warlock this expac and give it a try?
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Old 11-02-2015, 05:15 PM   #85
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I do agree fc should be changed but not to what it has been changed to. The reuse of fc should be lowered to maybe a min or so and the value it increases the stat should be lowered linear to what the time was lowered maybe slightly less. This will get rid of inflated 30 second parses that people spill tears over and will still keep warlocks playable. It will also lower the value of a fc reset.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:31 PM   #86
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Claps Claps Claps, 100% agree. Again, just as I have said, I remember a crapload of warlocks jumping all over the nerf elemental toxicity bandwagon. Now its your turn and its a 100% needed nerf to FC. Still cant believe you guys are still fighting for FC that is putting some of you guys upwards of 5k CB. That is just insane. AND its resettable by the ethereal weap, c'mon that is just insanity if you remotely think that is balanced.

And as I have said, its not that bad, you guys are still squarely on top of the parse, just not outrageously over the top. There are classes way more broken than warlocks can even think about.

And Forebodes, I do not have any warlock hate at all. I just don't like when people clearly are trying to justify something that EVERYONE including the warlocks know how as been OVERPOWERED for a long time. And like I have said to you and will continue to say, MOST classes are unable to get to 3k CB right now. So that alone is a bonus to you guys. Now throw in even if FC is a 25% potency boost, well guess what, its better than nothing. As Skulls said, its warlocks time to take the nerf medicine just like all other classes have had to take it, it might taste nasty but guess what it will make you feel better in the end.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:45 PM   #87
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Again, if you have done that, then post some FACTS of what your parses are like and show the HUGE loss of DPS you are claiming right now compared to OTHER CLASSES. I will put any amount of money that you are still doubling most dps classes. Perhaps give some reasonable suggestions for tweaking the nerf backed by accurate information from your testing with the new gear. Or better yet, PM it to one of the devs. I really don't care, but the whole point is as I will continue to state, this nerf to FC has been a long time coming and now its here, there is no fighting it or claiming its a foul punch.

You are saying you will have a DPS cap but yet you have not shown hitting this so called cap. You haven't gotten any of the new raid gear or know what the proccs or gear is. Noone does at this point. So again you are assuming there will be a cap, AGAIN assumption.
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Old 11-03-2015, 03:13 AM   #88
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Manatap - power tap on this spell may also be an issue. After testing a few encounters in beta I have noticed new mobs have much larger power pools.
  • BUG - If multiple illusionists cast this spell on the same target they will overwrite each other regardless of quality, or level.
Overall Illusionists ability to drain or feed power is a fraction of what warlocks can currently provide by a factor of 4.
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Old 11-03-2015, 03:27 AM   #89
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I'm not sure if this spell is even relevant. When a scout uses Detect Weakness on a mob it does not list a weapon skill. The closest stat listed would be accuracy, and I don't think debuffing a mobs weapon skill will lower its hit rate. Changing it to an Accuracy debuff would be a simple change, and make the spell relevant again.
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:00 PM   #90
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2 ro pets, 1 incinerate in 15 minutes and I still did not beat our warlock's best Brell parse. I was also not wearing a vulnerability ear, while he was wearing one, since I have to prioritize abilities on a pillar that key abilities do not affect. Using Vuln ear + no ro pets when he does not use ro deity, I probably would have been at about 3-5m lower, while giving him an additional 1.4%.
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