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Old 06-26-2012, 10:39 PM   #1
eohprod

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OK- one piece of feedback I have is regarding physical mitigation.

For us squishy classes, every last bit helps, and with the consolidation/changes to the Character Development tab, we lost 1656 Physical Mitigation.

Every 15 levels, you could choose your resist traits- I'm sure most of us squishy types chose the physical, as it is trivial to get the other resists on gear.

However, now that is gone and not replaced in the new system.

I copied my main (92 warden, 320AA) to test today- here's the results:

Prior to merging focus effects:

Physical mitigation (buffed): 6940 granting 61.5%

After the focus merge (same toon, same buffs, same gear, same AA):

Physical mitigation (buffed): 5893 granting 57.7% damage absorption.

I realize people will probably get all bent out of shape about me reporting such a small loss with negative feedback, but having worked to increase my mitigation, I've seen that even a 2% increase can make the difference between surviving and getting squished like a bug.

Is there any way to address this?

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Old 06-27-2012, 01:41 AM   #2
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eohprod wrote:

I realize people will probably get all bent out of shape about me reporting such a small loss with negative feedback, but having worked to increase my mitigation, I've seen that even a 2% increase can make the difference between surviving and getting squished like a bug.

Is there any way to address this?

Only one regular poster in the forums thinks the physical mit nerf is sensible, and NO ONE else here thinks he's in his right mind.  You, and several other threads full of people, are absolutely justified in being bent out of shape for such a sweeping change.  The loss of so much mitigation will be keenly felt by all classes.  Addressing it is up to red names at this point.  Xelgad/Piestro's original post was instantly set upon with negative feedback regarding this exact issue, and more will be piling up.

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Old 06-28-2012, 01:41 AM   #3
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The lack of physical mit is a pretty big hit.  As a caster, dropping for 4500+ mit to 2800 is a bit of a loss.

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Old 06-28-2012, 01:50 AM   #4
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Yah, we had a few casters that until recently didn't go down the physical mit line.  Once they did, the difference in survivability to a glancing blow was dramatic.  To think we're all about to be knocked down to the level they were at before they re-speced... Yikies...

I understand the Focus rearrangement.   Don't really have a strong feeling one way or another on it.

But rolling in a massive stealth nerf to all squishie classes... Yikies... just Yikies...

Please give us our physical mit back...

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Old 06-28-2012, 06:18 AM   #5
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It's not only squishy classes.

As a tank, I really do feel the missing mitigation. dropping from 70% vs level 92 to 64 % makes a big difference in raiding tbh.

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Old 06-28-2012, 06:27 AM   #6
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Personally I just hope it's an oversight, they've added Resists/Stats to the focus effects to make up for the resist/hp choices so with any luck they'll just add some mit to each focus effect as well.

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Old 06-28-2012, 06:59 AM   #7
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The mitigation nerf is huge for Brawlers. This makes my tank a whole lot more squishy to even basic auto attacks.

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Old 06-28-2012, 10:54 AM   #8
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Can we get a red name to please comment on this one way or the other.

Most everyone i know took physical mitigation over the elemental ones. Is this an oversight or intentional?

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Old 06-28-2012, 11:21 AM   #9
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Soul_Dreamer wrote:

Personally I just hope it's an oversight, they've added Resists/Stats to the focus effects to make up for the resist/hp choices so with any luck they'll just add some mit to each focus effect as well.

If it were simply an oversight it would have already been addressed by now.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=519572 It was just glossed over here as well.

It is pretty clear that it is not open for discussion.

After our raid tonight I am going to respec that line and take extra elemental since that is my highest resist line and I will gainthe least from it. That way I will have lost all of the physical mit like they have planned then I will make the HM instance runs like usual this weekend and see how well that works out.

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Old 06-28-2012, 04:42 PM   #10
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Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

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Old 06-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #11
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Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

Is this going to be addressed BEFORE any of these changes go live?

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Old 06-28-2012, 04:53 PM   #12
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Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

Can you please remove potency from the focus effects too? Casters gain more from it than other classes so it doesn't scale properly. I'd appreciate it. Oh, Also can you remove power, wizards gain more than anybody else do due to manaburn, and the health, take that off as necros gain more due to lifeburn. Shall we go on?

Also, mit scales the same for every class, its just that some are already higher than others on curve naturaly so the gain of getting more helps out more for others. Baka

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Old 06-28-2012, 04:56 PM   #13
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Yes Lyndro,

Clothies got a good Portion of their Survival from the Phys Mit. I specced completely (also the Battlemage Line and everything i got) to get more Phys Mit and Wards so that i am able to stand at least one Trauma AE.

I have to stand in the near of the Mobs, because some of my spells have only a Range of 5 or 10 meters (because the skilled Spellreach does not affect those).

Since DoV and now more with the Prestige Lines i am struggling to do DPS, only being able to do if i am absolutley reckless (sorry, couldn't resist SMILEY) but now i have to stand far away. As DPS is the only thing my class can provide, it is also more that i fall more and more behind. Why take a Squishy Class which can only Provide DPS and now can't do that anymore (better) than all the others, when you can have other classes which can tank/heal/Melee/support and deal equal dps ?

So, what now ? Are there any Plans for that ? A nerfage of the Trauma-AEs ? Some other ways for us to get more Phys Mit ? (I don't hope any more to get more Single-Target DPS for my class which i can use from far away).

Regards, theriatis.

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Old 06-28-2012, 04:58 PM   #14
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Can you please remove potency from the focus effects too? Casters gain more from it than other classes so it doesn't scale properly. I'd appreciate it. Oh, Also can you remove power, wizards gain more than anybody else do due to manaburn, and the health, take that off as necros gain more due to lifeburn. Shall we go on?

Also, mit scales the same for every class, its just that some are already higher than others on curve naturaly so the gain of getting more helps out more for others. Baka

I second this post as thats exactly the way I feel.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:03 PM   #15
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Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

That's fine and all if you are going to adjust every trauma AE (and there are lots of them) on current content so that mages that just lost half their mitigation don't get one shot over and over again. Not to mention the Plate tanks you are clearly trying to help in this patch now taking even more damage from every auto attack, every auto attack that they are going to be hit even more often by since the Brawler avoiding for them is no longer immune to Strikethrough.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:07 PM   #16
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

Can you please remove potency from the focus effects too? Casters gain more from it than other classes so it doesn't scale properly. I'd appreciate it. Oh, Also can you remove power, wizards gain more than anybody else do due to manaburn, and the health, take that off as necros gain more due to lifeburn. Shall we go on?

Also, mit scales the same for every class, its just that some are already higher than others on curve naturaly so the gain of getting more helps out more for others. Baka

This basically. It's totally unfair to have things that are better for some classes than others just because this is no longer a choice. Because before it always was a "choice" right? /sarcasm off.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:08 PM   #17
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Really Lyndro, is that a joke? If so its not very funny.  I thought april fools has passed.   

I guess we will have to wait until the so called "class by class" change happen.  It will prolly be rolled in right before the test goes live, if at all.  

As a person who regularly plays all classes, I can guranetee that this change will have drastic affects if not addressed.  I don't get what the problem is if a mage has a little more physical mit?  Please don't tell me this is a PVP fix, cause it sure does smell like one.  And nothing makes me want to rage quit this game more than PVP fixes affecting PVE play.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:13 PM   #18
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Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

 (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example)

Thanks for letting us know that this is the intended direction.

This is apples and oranges though. The amount of damage reduction decreases as more mit is added. A human cloth wearer vs a human Plate tank that both have only 1500 physical mit (no armor, no innate class bonuses etc) are going to get the same protection from that 1500. Now give the plate tank 3000 if the damage reduction is not EXACTLY 50% less than what the 1500 is I don't understand what is the intent of this change.

This is a broadsweeping change and "We'll address these issues" is scary, these issues already need to be addressed, this wasn't broken before it has been like that since November of 2005 iirc.

We get no more benefit from the first X amount of Physical mit than anyone else. In comparison the same scale of damage reduction applies to us for all other resists, but those are being left unchanged.

Does the same principal not apply to say arcane, add 1500 to a cloth wearer and add 1500 to a plate wearer do they both provide the exact same benefit?

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:21 PM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

Is this going to be addressed BEFORE any of these changes go live?

I'm glad someone popped in and let us know that it was intentional, but really  I have to second this question:

Is this going to be addressed before the changes go live? Because it really needs to be. 

Are armors getting a mitigation raise across the board? Mitigation changed to scale more linear rather than a curve? Whatever it is needs to happen before these go live or it needs to be added back as a choice for people. I don't think I even know anyone who DIDN'T take the physical mitigation when given the choice. This is a change that will significantly effect almost every single player you have still playing & not in a good or fun way.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:27 PM   #20
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Also keep in mind, that you guys as a dev team have paid 0 attention to mit values on gear. They don't increase in a lot of cases as you get gear that is supposed to be better. In fact in a lot of cases they actually go down. It's something that hasn't been looked at in ages, like protection value on shields being virtually unchanged since TSO (except for SS shields, which have more then everything, including PoW).
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Old 06-28-2012, 05:29 PM   #21
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eohprod wrote:

OK- one piece of feedback I have is regarding physical mitigation.

For us squishy classes, every last bit helps, and with the consolidation/changes to the Character Development tab, we lost 1656 Physical Mitigation.

Every 15 levels, you could choose your resist traits- I'm sure most of us squishy types chose the physical, as it is trivial to get the other resists on gear.

However, now that is gone and not replaced in the new system.

I copied my main (92 warden, 320AA) to test today- here's the results:

Prior to merging focus effects:

Physical mitigation (buffed): 6940 granting 61.5%

After the focus merge (same toon, same buffs, same gear, same AA):

Physical mitigation (buffed): 5893 granting 57.7% damage absorption.

I realize people will probably get all bent out of shape about me reporting such a small loss with negative feedback, but having worked to increase my mitigation, I've seen that even a 2% increase can make the difference between surviving and getting squished like a bug.

Is there any way to address this?

i agree with you they need to have some way of giving us the same physical mit we had before.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:30 PM   #22
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Ok, one thing with scouts is that the new armor in SS has less mit than the armor from easy mode drunder, so was this planned...

I understand the increase was unbalanced, yet to say there is no temp solution then that is a concern. Easiest solution in my opinion is relook at base mit values or have the focus be % mit increase instead.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:45 PM   #23
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Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

I honestly dont believe you (SoE) comprehend how extensively this mitigation removal will affect classes and survivability in game.  There are a TON of Trauma AEs, not to mention AE autoattack which are going to be doing SIGNIFICANTLY more damage to every class in the the entire game now....  massively magnified as you go towards cloth armor.

And frankly, your (SoE's) track record for significant corrections due to mechanics changes is EXTREMELY poor.  And I'd rather not see yet more broken raid encounters which take months and Months and MONTHS to fix.  Because no, you will NOT correct everything prior to these changes going it, as always, it is only going to be reactionary corrections and fixes, not proactive.

In the end, it will be MUCH less effort just to keep the +physical mitigation bonuses in game.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:46 PM   #24
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Please say they are going to balance this prior to the gu so I don't have a full group of mages going splat every time a trauma ae hits them

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:49 PM   #25
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Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

With this one little change, you just increased the difficulty of every encounter in the game.  Was that really your intent?

I've got to agree with the person that said this smells like a PvP change that is going to greatly impact the PvE game. 

It's been like it is for years and years.  Encounter after encounter has been adjusted based on how it works now.    And you're yanking it out and saying you'll address the issues on a class by class basis?

How about this.  Put it back and when you have EVERYTHING in place for that "class by class basis", put them both on test and we'll try it out and let you know how it works.

Sorry, but this sounds like it was designed and decided upon by people who don't actually play the game at level cap and once the magnitude of the impact was pointed out, the "class by class basis" excuse was thrown together.  Otherwise, if you knew the impact of this decision, why wouldn't you have had that "class by class basis" already in place when you pulled this in the first place? 

Removing physical mit without making any changes to make up the difference makes every class more squishey!

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:58 PM   #26
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This reminds me of one of my favorite posts by Xelgad where he didn't want to make a change to one of the warlock prestige abilities as they planned to fix the ability that was asked to be put in its place in the "distant future". I think two weeks is enough future if this goes in.

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Old 06-28-2012, 06:03 PM   #27
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Anastasie wrote:

Please say they are going to balance this prior to the gu so I don't have a full group of mages going splat every time a trauma ae hits them

Oy, if this goes live before it's all sorted, I think I'll just stop raiding for a while.  It is not going to be pretty and to be honest, I'm not that fond of dying.. repeatedly.. for over 3 hours. 

Lyndro!  Please reconsider this huge mistake of a change!!!

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Old 06-28-2012, 06:05 PM   #28
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[email protected] wrote:

Anastasie wrote:

Please say they are going to balance this prior to the gu so I don't have a full group of mages going splat every time a trauma ae hits them

Oy, if this goes live before it's all sorted, I think I'll just stop raiding for a while.  It is not going to be pretty and to be honest, I'm not that fond of dying.. repeatedly.. for over 3 hours. 

Lyndro!  Please reconsider this huge mistake of a change!!!

 +1,000,000   the Entire Community agrees with this sentiment.

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Old 06-28-2012, 06:30 PM   #29
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Neonblue wrote:

Really Lyndro, is that a joke? If so its not very funny.  I thought april fools has passed.   

I guess we will have to wait until the so called "class by class" change happen.  It will prolly be rolled in right before the test goes live, if at all.  

As a person who regularly plays all classes, I can guranetee that this change will have drastic affects if not addressed.  I don't get what the problem is if a mage has a little more physical mit?  Please don't tell me this is a PVP fix, cause it sure does smell like one.  And nothing makes me want to rage quit this game more than PVP fixes affecting PVE play.

This change has nothing to do with PvP. We are able to tune and balance PvP mitigation curves percentages independently.

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Old 06-28-2012, 06:34 PM   #30
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They could change their minds on this, then just adjust the mitigation curve and get the same results while apeasing the masses.

Just sayin.

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