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Old 03-15-2011, 10:42 PM   #31
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The agro range in here is just WAAY to far. It's longer than a thrown weapon using shurikens. I understand they're giants and they can see a long ways, but being as long as it is unfairly penalizes those that are stuck using throwing weapons.

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Old 03-16-2011, 03:50 AM   #32
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Gotta say, this zone is really a masterpiece.  I just finished the portal quests and unlocked the Temple, and I love how rewarding that was even disregarding the armor the quests gave.  It's a nice touch having a banker and such in the Hypogeum...I kinda wish I could just live there

Too many cool things about the zone to really go into detail about them all, but you guys did an amazing job with this one.

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Old 03-16-2011, 06:06 AM   #33
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0ppression wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Who says it should be pickup friendly? You? Most of the instances in this xpac are pickup friendly, run those instead. Its nice having a challenging zone with rewards to match (soon).

Since we geared up, we went back to Kael, how dare you calling it challenging ?

Yes it's brutal but way easier than instances, no script madness. Named are easier than Lord Djinn or the armor guy in TOFS2 SMILEY  It's  funny to restrict tank and spank content to well geared people only.

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Old 03-16-2011, 07:15 AM   #34
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A contested dungeons (if only one available) should be aimed to average players. The main enemies should be other players, not the mobs. I maybe see once per day a request for Kael in the T9 chat. Most people do always the same, Tower 1, Pool 1, rinse and repeat. Ask yourself devs: Can this be good for EQ2 in the long run? I guess with the current policy you will soon have again empty servers until the next expansion.

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Old 03-17-2011, 04:35 PM   #35
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so ive been in here for about 2 hours now. wheres the trash gear we were promised?

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Old 03-17-2011, 07:34 PM   #36
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[email protected] wrote:

so ive been in here for about 2 hours now. wheres the trash gear we were promised?

The hotfix said it was added, however it was not. We will try to have that corrected as soon as possible.

I am extremely disapointed myself.

Sorry about that all.

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Old 03-18-2011, 05:29 PM   #37
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Kander wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

so ive been in here for about 2 hours now. wheres the trash gear we were promised?

The hotfix said it was added, however it was not. We will try to have that corrected as soon as possible.

I am extremely disapointed myself.

Sorry about that all.

I'm assuming they'll be pretty rare stuff (on the order of 1% or less), probably all jewelry and no main armor pieces, but what quality will they be?  Iceshard Keep quality or higher?  I actually had a lot of fun exploring Kael Drakkel with a group a bit ago, we couldn't do the nameds (we tried one and he did knock back, knock up, mem whipe, 40k-50k dmg AoE, next one we tried mem whiped and one shotted both healers right near the start, next one didn't mem whipe but he kept summoning adds and we failed with him at 5% then he despawned), but maybe if the trash drops good loot it'll gear people up to be able to do the named.  (Or at least that's my hope)  Even though we didn't get loot it was still fun though, and we learned a lot about the layout of the city.  

I suspect there's several things we don't know yet - like maybe more than just those primary teleport spots.  I noticed an escaped thrael gorr in kennel area that wouldn't speak, but that seemed like a perfect location for a teleporter.  Maybe you just need like 40k faction with them or maybe there's a quest giver somewhere else we haven't found.  It'll be fun figuring all this out, and hopefully the trash mob's dropping loot will entice more people to do so.

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Old 03-18-2011, 07:02 PM   #38
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Awesome zone. You need to actually know how to play your toon to get through it. Not for the noob
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Old 03-19-2011, 01:04 AM   #39
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Spent 4 hours in there tonight with a reasonably geared, balanced group. We wiped a few times, only to be expected.

The power drain is a pain but bearable and it only mildly irritated.

I don't know if the notes from 17th are correct but in 4 hours we slogged from the arch to the Hypo twice, cleared the cages got one trash exquisite and saw one named (disregarding the x2 in the arena). This rather took the edge off it for me. It wasn't even smart loot for the master we got.

The zone is awesome, the mobs a challenge, much better than a regular zone plod 3 times a day. I am looking forward to doing the quests and exploring it all. From what I've seen it is a great place and will make a big change from zones or raiding all the time.

Please get the changes in soon though. 4 hours with so little reward is a very poor return on effort.

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Old 03-19-2011, 11:41 AM   #40
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Kander wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Banditman wrote:

Faction?  Sure, that's a good reason.  Unfortunately, the time it takes to kill the faction equivalent number of mobs to that of doing a single mission is out of whack.  You'll complete a mission in FAR less time, with FAR less risk.

XP?  Sure, another great reason for a zone.  Kael fails in this regard as well.  Once again, huge hit points, huge risk, inferior rewards.

Loot?  Yes, that's also an entirely plausible reason for a zone to exist.  In fact, there have been numerous threads about the loot in Kael with Developer response saying that at least that portion is being looked at for slight increases.  Still the time and risk investment probably won't be what anyone is looking for in terms of payoff with only a slight increase in quality.

There are reasons to go to Kael, but none of them are worth it if you aren't prepared for the zone. 

Faction? I got nearly 5K faction (for 2 relevant factions, so you could say nearly 10K) the first week of the expansion.  This was nice, since I was able to buy the rune I wanted from Ry'Gorr a few days earlier than I otherwise would have.  It's not enough to make people say "I need to go to Kael to grind faction," but it is a nice bonus if you're there for other reasons.XP? At launch, the exp was pathetically low.  On double exp Saturday, it was ridiculously high.  I can't really comment on the increased exp rate without bonuses, since I (and most of my guildmates) capped AA in there when we were getting 9-12% AA per trash mob kill on the bonus exp day.

Loot? Ok, I haven't really gotten any upgrades there, but I've sold several of the Legendary drops for 250-300p  EDIT: Also, the drop rate for masters there is very high.

As I wrote in the other thread, I hope they make the statue quests repeatable and maybe a bit more rewarding.  That could make Kael a solid option for people who are after shards.

Changes made and being made.

  • PoI Quests have been made repeatable once a day (6 quests) and grant faction and shards
  • Trash drops, including rare fabled drops are being added to the zone tables.
  • Bosses now have a chance to drop shards.
  • Trash now has a chance to drop shards.
  • The experience has been raised significantly.
  • Most if not everything loot oriented is tradeable.

That's good news, because as it stands, Kael is just not a fun zone.  Very few people in my guild want to run the zone, because honestly, it's not worth the effort.  Risk vs reward in this zone ( as well as some others in this expansion) is practically nil.

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:39 AM   #41
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Awesome zone. You need to actually know how to play your toon to get through it. Not for the noob

 I wonder why you are getting excited, TOFS2, hold of rime, FP (when Djinn was flurrying for 60k) means much more coordinnation.

Trash is just about Kb (some), nasty aoe for some and Mana drain for others. We killed only one named, he KB (360), meme wiped, feared and probably a couple of others trick (may be a curse ...).

This zone is certainly not harder than sebilis long ago or even runnyeye. Indeed in sebilis pulling was probably more tricky and fear was more dangerous  (space between mob was very small).

For me Kael is not hard, it just requires some gear. It is again a  very clear sign of disdain to casual people. Most won't survive there, and it's the only unscripted content available.

The message is more or less : If you have good stuff you can tank and spank and get cool loot. If you are not,  long unrewarding scripted instances are for you.

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Old 03-20-2011, 01:39 PM   #42
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

That's good news, because as it stands, Kael is just not a fun zone.  Very few people in my guild want to run the zone, because honestly, it's not worth the effort.  Risk vs reward in this zone ( as well as some others in this expansion) is practically nil.

Honestly, I had fun the other day even when we didn't manage to kill any named, just exploring the city and learning.  Went back again recently with almost the same people and this time using the knowledge gained earlier we actually succeeded in killing a few named (and the loot was an upgrade).  I can only imagine that the way it'll go now is we keep killing, exploring, and using the upgraded gear maybe we'll be able to do the named that kicked our butts earlier.  Makes me think of the Vigilant zones - they just destroyed my guild's groups at first, but then we gained AAs/levels/items and slowly nailed each named then using that named's drops it made subsequent runs easier.  Yet, that's why Vigilant was some of my favorite SF zones.  The only thing that gets me about Kael Drakkel right now is the mem whipes - I hate mem whipes when they happen more frequently than your average tank's snap aggro abilities refresh, especially when mobs hit hard enough to almost one shot everybody else except tanks. (nontanks not only have lower mitigation, but also lower critical mitigation, so they get doubly hit by higher dmg compared to pre DoV mobs who didn't crit)  I don't want the mem whipes gone though because right now they're what makes everything so danged hard, and I do think Kael Drakkel deserves to be a harder zone and not be diluted down to be easier.

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Old 03-20-2011, 09:59 PM   #43
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Kander wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

so ive been in here for about 2 hours now. wheres the trash gear we were promised?

The hotfix said it was added, however it was not. We will try to have that corrected as soon as possible.

I am extremely disapointed myself.

Sorry about that all.

Did this get ninja fixed? Haven't seen it in update notes, but changes aren't always there.

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Old 03-21-2011, 02:12 PM   #44
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Frezzyisfuzzy wrote:

Kander wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

so ive been in here for about 2 hours now. wheres the trash gear we were promised?

The hotfix said it was added, however it was not. We will try to have that corrected as soon as possible.

I am extremely disapointed myself.

Sorry about that all.

Did this get ninja fixed? Haven't seen it in update notes, but changes aren't always there.

I believe this is supposed to get corrected tomorrow.

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Old 03-21-2011, 05:12 PM   #45
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Hey Kander, can you make the quest Intentions of War be a group update in Kael?  It requires each group member to harvest 6 communiques, they vanish when one member gathers it, and it only updates on one person, so right now with a full group you need to find 36 of the communiques and they're spread out over a wide area.  

Maybe a teleporter to this area from Hypogeum could be added too, or not.  (It would be convenient, but I don't know if maybe you want us to have to work through new kael and then into kennel area to get to this particular section everytime)

Edit: And the quest after that, Triumph in the Temple should also group update.  When you click the teleporter only the person who clicks it gets the update instead of the whole group.  If you go on through the next guy does the update for the whole group - but it isn't obvious until the group makes that leap of faith and goes through.  BTW - I might also suggest the teleporter either suck in the whole group, or change the destination so it's not in midair in the middle of the room hovering above aggro mobs where you fall the instant you turn/move.

Also, if you die in the Temple AFTER hailing the guy and getting your update but before unlocking the door you get in a stuck state.  You respawn outside the temple, but because you've been updated the teleporter doesn't work for you anymore.  There's no way to get back in the temple unless you delete the quest and start all over from the beginning of it again.

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Old 03-21-2011, 05:38 PM   #46
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I think KD is just broken beyond repair at this point a month into the expansion and there is still no real use for this zone.

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Old 03-21-2011, 06:14 PM   #47
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People go back to SoS to farm aa + some quests. They go back to Sebilis for aa and myth faction. They go to hole for muteables and aa. I wonder if they will go back in 1 year for any reason. Right now, noone goes there.

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Old 03-21-2011, 06:22 PM   #48
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This zone is the end of heroic progression for this expansion.  Thankfully, most people have not reached that point in progression just one month into an expansion that is probably supposed to last around a year.  Once you get enough crit mit and crit chance and earn some more AAs, you have this zone waiting for you.  It offers the best items available to heroic players, as well other bonuses like easy shards/plat/masters.

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Old 03-21-2011, 07:34 PM   #49
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Novusod wrote:

I think KD is just broken beyond repair at this point a month into the expansion and there is still no real use for this zone.

Sorry, you're wrong.  I'm having plenty of fun there, and honestly if it wasn't of this difficulty (and commensurate reward) I doubt my guild would really have bothered much with it.  (BTW we're not a raid guild either, so it isn't a case of the - 'you must have uber gear then!&#39SMILEY

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Old 03-21-2011, 08:24 PM   #50
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Went in there the other day on my tank with current dov and Sf raid gear and 300 AA, and it was pretty helli-bad. Took a mystic for the healer. Mystic had no stun-breaks and you can guess aside from me the tank who was the other person always stunned was. Yup the sole healer = wipe every time. Either the duration needs to be reduced to 2 secs or changed out for a harder hitting tick.

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

This zone is the end of heroic progression for this expansion.  Thankfully, most people have not reached that point in progression just one month into an expansion that is probably supposed to last around a year.  Once you get enough crit mit and crit chance and earn some more AAs, you have this zone waiting for you.  It offers the best items available to heroic players, as well other bonuses like easy shards/plat/masters.

End of the heroic progression for the entire tier ends in 11months. IF the level increase comes as it does every other expac, 6 of which is after the mid-year content push that happens. What this means is this is basically going to be an unused zone in 5-ish months. Unlike Seb theres no mythical quest updates required from it.

Not only that but the reasoning behind it vs. the easier instances is odd to me. Why make instancing which penalizes player with lockout timers easier for Pug groupers. When the lockout itself hinders their chance at a continuing group formation w/other puggers with said lock outs. Rather then making an easy-top/moderate-middle-/hard-bottom zone that let players progress themselves into the zone at any level of gear they had for the tier.

As it stands now on AB after standing in the zone for hours on end looking for others. I started a list. In 8 hours 1 group of level 90's entered the zone for 20 minutes then left. The playtime was early afternoon to early evening (i had to go raid later that evening). But he desolate zone seemed to need some tweaking to help intice players. Otherwise the relatively easier pug public questing is going to draw players away from it just but by the uneeded annoyance of the time/gear/skill/effects needed in the zone.

Detor wrote:

Novusod wrote:

I think KD is just broken beyond repair at this point a month into the expansion and there is still no real use for this zone.

Sorry, you're wrong.  I'm having plenty of fun there, and honestly if it wasn't of this difficulty (and commensurate reward) I doubt my guild would really have bothered much with it.  (BTW we're not a raid guild either, so it isn't a case of the - 'you must have uber gear then!'

No sir.. YOUR WRONG! See what i did there? made a response to an opinion. Then play eq1 or even better play EQoA sir. EQoA destroyed your faith in any healer or the best armor with AC and HP you literally lived in fear of the next corner. Difficulty was a gaige of insta-death and insta-death with the mob pooping on you

I like that Fear... i like EQ2... i like when the 2 mix in a decent manner of difficulty and execution. This is what needs adressed.

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Old 03-21-2011, 08:47 PM   #51
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Rezikai wrote:

Went in there the other day on my tank with current dov and Sf raid gear and 300 AA, and it was pretty helli-bad. Took a mystic for the healer. Mystic had no stun-breaks and you can guess aside from me the tank who was the other person always stunned was. Yup the sole healer = wipe every time. Either the duration needs to be reduced to 2 secs or changed out for a harder hitting tick.

Detor wrote:

Novusod wrote:

I think KD is just broken beyond repair at this point a month into the expansion and there is still no real use for this zone.

Sorry, you're wrong.  I'm having plenty of fun there, and honestly if it wasn't of this difficulty (and commensurate reward) I doubt my guild would really have bothered much with it.  (BTW we're not a raid guild either, so it isn't a case of the - 'you must have uber gear then!'

No sir.. YOUR WRONG! See what i did there? made a response to an opinion. Then play eq1 or even better play EQoA sir. EQoA destroyed your faith in any healer or the best armor with AC and HP you literally lived in fear of the next corner. Difficulty was a gaige of insta-death and insta-death with the mob pooping on you

I like that Fear... i like EQ2... i like when the 2 mix in a decent manner of difficulty and execution. This is what needs adressed.

The stun you can avoid, it's actually a failure for your tank not doing something they're suppose to be doing.  Even if the tank doesn't catch on, some healers have special skills that can cure through a stun or avoid it as well. (templar - sanctuary, defiler - voice of the ancestors, etc etc.)

You said the zone was broken and pointless, but really there are less overall bugs than some of the instances and the point is to explore, learn how to defeat bosses, and improve your gear which is really the point of all zones.  If it was easy, THEN it would be pointless to a lot of people because why compete with other people for named when you can just do an instance and get better loot?  The loot is better in Kael Drakkel because of it's difficulty, and the loot wouldn't be what it is if the zone's difficulty were reduced.  It's the place to go when you have beaten a lot of the instances and you want to continue improving your character without being a raider.

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Old 03-21-2011, 09:40 PM   #52
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Quite honestly, KD is on the medium to challenging side of an expansion, and certainly doesn't have anything on original Mistmoore Castle (Impale says hi) or Nizara (uncurable Flame claw). It definitely has a challenge present and requires people being on their toes, nevermind casters and utility characters helping out with utility, but it's by no means the hardest dungeon ever. The risk and reward of the zone isn't limited to just it, itemization and risk vs reward has been a problem throughout the ENTIRE expansion (Ascent, Shard armor, etc), KD is just the most cleanly obvious of the bunch.

To be frank, if you can handle Iceshard Keep, odds are you could handle almost all of Kael Drakkel as well, apart from some rough bosses and otherwise annoying trash (I hate you forever double headbutt). Any healer with a CC break or a stifle immunity can trivially solo heal the zone, and all healers can do so if they're group with a smart conjuror/chanter/tank.

As for risk vs reward, the experience gain is -insane- compared to most other zones, meaning this is an amazing place to bring alts/utility/etc that could use AA. Should it be the only reason to come here? Nah, but the problem -right now- exists within DoV itemization; Kael Drakkel is a well balanced and interesting dungeon all around.

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Old 03-21-2011, 10:55 PM   #53
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My problem with Kael is not that it is broken or too hard, you need some gear (but nothing amazing) and decent players. But the gear barrier is excluding lot of people.

The difficulty is much lower than TOFS2 or TOFS special named (i did them before the nert). The problem is that this old style contant )tank and spank with nasty abiliies -- stun, kb, curse, fear --  is only accessbile one you got some medium gear.

We miss a Easy Kael, and i wonder why we don't have 3 different Kael (easy, medium and hard).  Turning Kael into 3 areas  is very easy (use the same map and quest but give different rewards).

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Old 03-22-2011, 03:31 AM   #54
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Is there any value atm in having ally faction with kd? I have 50k and only see a bank and a merchant that sells bread and water in the hypogeum, was hoping for a faction merchant tbh

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Old 03-22-2011, 07:21 AM   #55
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[email protected] wrote:

Is there any value atm in having ally faction with kd? I have 50k and only see a bank and a merchant that sells bread and water in the hypogeum, was hoping for a faction merchant tbh

I'm assuming you mean the thrael'gorr orcs?  Supposedly there's some really nice stuff they sell, and that's why it's limited to 5 faction per kill.  I haven't found the vendor though, and I always admit that I could be wrong or misunderstood the dev statement of a while back.

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Old 03-22-2011, 03:38 PM   #56
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Leovinus wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Is there any value atm in having ally faction with kd? I have 50k and only see a bank and a merchant that sells bread and water in the hypogeum, was hoping for a faction merchant tbh

I'm assuming you mean the thrael'gorr orcs?  Supposedly there's some really nice stuff they sell, and that's why it's limited to 5 faction per kill.  I haven't found the vendor though, and I always admit that I could be wrong or misunderstood the dev statement of a while back.

There's a vendor that sells raid war runes (requires raid shards), but he's a Ragebourne (one of the vampires) and doesn't require you do anything with the Thrael'Gorr orcs.

Currently I think the only think getting 50k faction and finishing the Thrael Gorr questline gets you is a title - 'Emancipator of Thrael Gorr'

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Old 03-22-2011, 04:06 PM   #57
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Running this zone at 200 crit, 250ish DA, and only 130ish crit mit and having no problem with the hall marks and seperating trash etc.  Crit mit can go higher but I would loose Crit chance and DA. 

Running the hallmarks with no issues atm.  too many people are avoiding the fun of an open dungeon crawl for scripted instance guarenteed loot.

You nerfed the zone too much.  The knock backs from beta were epic fun and the constant de-aggro realy kept healers and mages in the group on the ball for cures.  Now its just a matter of scouts making sure they place themselves right.  I really dont know what people are complaining about.  The  HQ and quest gear is more than enough for this zone.

We were looking fro trash drops but only got a few stupid masters - bleh.

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Old 03-22-2011, 08:09 PM   #58
Detor

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[email protected] wrote:

You nerfed the zone too much.  The knock backs from beta were epic fun

They still exist in some areas.  I personally saw our whole group go flying to the other side of the Noble's Quarter when one giant got a knockback off and we were going up that ramp thing to get the crow at the top for the teleport quest in that region.

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Old 03-23-2011, 02:01 PM   #59
Kander

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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

  • PoI Quests have been made repeatable once a day (6 quests) and grant faction and shards
  • Trash drops, including rare fabled drops are being added to the zone tables.
  • Bosses now have a chance to drop shards.
  • Trash now has a chance to drop shards.
  • The experience has been raised significantly.
  • Most if not everything loot oriented is tradeable.

Everything on this list should now be implemented as of this morning.

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Old 03-23-2011, 02:33 PM   #60
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Novusod wrote:

I think KD is just broken beyond repair at this point a month into the expansion and there is still no real use for this zone.

I was there last night.

Top end Legendary/ Lower end Fabled gear and alot of it was tradable, this is exactly what an open heroic zone should be offering in terms of rewards + there are a ton of kill quests for shards + plat.

I'm loving Kael right now and would not change a thing

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