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Old 09-29-2007, 07:42 AM   #1
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All the time I see people slating ''lockers'' because they are lame, etc etc. I'm just wondering - what's so great about level 70 that you *have* to get there.Personally The only real difference I see is that you get the full set of skills..the difference in gear and skills is massively different (more skills = more masters = more plat to equip properly)  and more items = larger range of lesser skilled nubs.In the lower tiers the skills and equipment is much more similar - and balance is more or less class (and therefore much more SOE)related than the higher tiers which seem to be more balanced for pvp/pve.So why, pray tell - is level 70 so great to be to pvp? I have pve characters in abundance, and have seen more endgame content there than I will ever see in pvp t7 (it's simply not possible to be in 2 raiding guilds, and why would I want to be in a faction based pvp guild or an exile guild, when I am already killing content that few pvp guilds see)my point here is that pvping at 70 isnt for content (personally) and I am struggling to see the appeal of levelling through 5 tiers of twinks, to then have to battle through my 60s (or grind in instances) to 70 just to then be less equipped and need more equipment there than the people already there.Help a brother out, list the reasons that we should all be levelling to 70, cos I am really interested (and your reasoning being that level lockers are all lamers or w/e really doesnt cut the mustard)
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Old 09-29-2007, 08:55 AM   #2
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Bibe wrote:
All the time I see people slating ''lockers'' because they are lame, etc etc. I'm just wondering - what's so great about level 70 that you *have* to get there.
Can't answer that personally. Don't have a single toon that's even hit 50 yet. But, I really enjoy the PvP at the 30-40 range. While some people are equipped out.. its not as item dependent as 70 where everyone is the same level and those with no talent can compensate with better equipment.In other words.. I'm quite content to remain in the dark regarding this and slowly level my way up to "end game" and frustration on a nightly basis.
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Old 09-29-2007, 09:23 AM   #3
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Because the game is more balanced at lvl70, because you can get items with pvp, because more skill are in game, because it's where everyone are at, because you can enjoy the raid content, etc...
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Old 09-29-2007, 09:41 AM   #4
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I think it's because they're all so lonely at level 70 and there's no way to un-level your character to a more popular tier so they tell you how great it is up there so more players will go there lawlz
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Old 09-29-2007, 10:03 AM   #5
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Hinosh wrote:
I think it's because they're all so lonely at level 70 and there's no way to un-level your character to a more popular tier so they tell you how great it is up there so more players will go there lawlz

LOL.

Ive had locked toons in the past and although i have nothing against them  ive had much better pvp since 70 than i ever did in lower tiers.Its far from lonely at 70 lol.Theres pvp if you want and instances for class gear if you dont and raiding if you want.My toons got prob half his masters 1 pvp item gear and i do ok,and yes i do solo but yes it is hard but that goes for all tiers.

I really dont care if you lockers dont lvl up.It takes no skill to kill people in t2 and it just drives new people away from the game.T3 is alittle different.A little bit more skill is needed and the new players have had time to gear up.

Unless you have a toon at t7 hinosh i would [Removed for Content] as you know nothing about this tier.

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Old 09-29-2007, 10:08 AM   #6
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Bibe wrote:
All the time I see people slating ''lockers'' because they are lame, etc etc. I'm just wondering - what's so great about level 70 that you *have* to get there.Personally The only real difference I see is that you get the full set of skills..the difference in gear and skills is massively different (more skills = more masters = more plat to equip properly)  and more items = larger range of lesser skilled nubs.In the lower tiers the skills and equipment is much more similar - and balance is more or less class (and therefore much more SOE)related than the higher tiers which seem to be more balanced for pvp/pve.So why, pray tell - is level 70 so great to be to pvp? I have pve characters in abundance, and have seen more endgame content there than I will ever see in pvp t7 (it's simply not possible to be in 2 raiding guilds, and why would I want to be in a faction based pvp guild or an exile guild, when I am already killing content that few pvp guilds see)my point here is that pvping at 70 isnt for content (personally) and I am struggling to see the appeal of levelling through 5 tiers of twinks, to then have to battle through my 60s (or grind in instances) to 70 just to then be less equipped and need more equipment there than the people already there.Help a brother out, list the reasons that we should all be levelling to 70, cos I am really interested (and your reasoning being that level lockers are all lamers or w/e really doesnt cut the mustard)

Some of us dont play on lame pve servers and raid easy mode.We like the hard mode pvp/raid challenge.Some of the top pvp guilds raid just fine with one faction and would prob do as well as some pve guilds

Lvl lockers (t2 mainly) drive new people away from game.

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Old 09-29-2007, 10:27 AM   #7
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Bibe wrote:
In the lower tiers the skills and equipment is much more similar - and balance is more or less class (and therefore much more SOE)related than the higher tiers which seem to be more balanced for pvp/pve.
This is just not true. At every tier there are people who've been there for months and have full masters and lots of fabled pieces. The only people who can compete with them are others who've been there for ages. Meanwhile diminishing returns means that alright fabled gear makes some difference, but not that much because of diminishing returns.
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Old 09-29-2007, 12:23 PM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:
Because the game is more balanced at lvl70, because you can get items with pvp, because more skill are in game, because it's where everyone are at, because you can enjoy the raid content, etc...
Everyone I see around me in T4-6 must be figments of my imagination then, since everyone are at 70.
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Old 09-29-2007, 12:26 PM   #9
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[email protected] wrote:
I really dont care if you lockers dont lvl up.It takes no skill to kill people in t2 and it just drives new people away from the game.T3 is alittle different.A little bit more skill is needed and the new players have had time to gear up.
So.. here's my question.Why is that everyone who isn't T7 is a locker? And that everyone who hasn't dinged 70 preys on T2 commonland/antonica newbs?Blanket statements suck..
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Old 09-29-2007, 02:03 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:
Hinosh wrote:
I think it's because they're all so lonely at level 70 and there's no way to un-level your character to a more popular tier so they tell you how great it is up there so more players will go there lawlz

LOL.

Ive had locked toons in the past and although i have nothing against them  ive had much better pvp since 70 than i ever did in lower tiers.Its far from lonely at 70 lol.Theres pvp if you want and instances for class gear if you dont and raiding if you want.My toons got prob half his masters 1 pvp item gear and i do ok,and yes i do solo but yes it is hard but that goes for all tiers.

I really dont care if you lockers dont lvl up.It takes no skill to kill people in t2 and it just drives new people away from the game.T3 is alittle different.A little bit more skill is needed and the new players have had time to gear up.

Unless you have a toon at t7 hinosh i would [I cannot control my vocabulary] as you know nothing about this tier.

I was only kidding about T7 PvP...

As for level locking? I don't lock my level to PvP, I only level lock to farm writs all day for faction. And the reason I haven't reached level 70 yet is because I don't play day and night to get to level 70.

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Old 09-29-2007, 02:09 PM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:
Because the game is more balanced at lvl70, because you can get items with pvp, because more skill are in game, because it's where everyone are at, because you can enjoy the raid content, etc...

There's nothing balanced about the end-game raid-advanced resists, and the broken nature of a handful of classes that are essentially unbeatable in pvp.  That's not the case in other tiers.  Your T5 general toons with full sets of OLD end-game raid gear?  They die to MC noobs like me.  Your lvl 23 strikeofthundermonkies die.. even though they're in a powerful spot for their toon.

There is never more balance in the game than there is at level 1.  The further you get from lvl 1, the less equality there is in pvp SMILEY  Fact.

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Old 09-29-2007, 02:22 PM   #12
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Bozidar wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Because the game is more balanced at lvl70, because you can get items with pvp, because more skill are in game, because it's where everyone are at, because you can enjoy the raid content, etc...

There's nothing balanced about the end-game raid-advanced resists, and the broken nature of a handful of classes that are essentially unbeatable in pvp.  That's not the case in other tiers.  Your T5 general toons with full sets of OLD end-game raid gear?  They die to MC noobs like me.  Your lvl 23 strikeofthundermonkies die.. even though they're in a powerful spot for their toon.

There is never more balance in the game than there is at level 1.  The further you get from lvl 1, the less equality there is in pvp SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />  Fact.

Wrong.

Level one wizard spells:

2-3 cold DoT & decreases mitigation vs heat and cold damage by around 23, .5 second casting time, 5 second recovery;

8-13 heat damage, 2 second casting time, 2 second recovery.

Level one berzerker spells:

2-4 melee damage, .5 casting time, 8 second recovery;

TAUNT, .5 casting time, 7 second recover.

Who wins there?

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Old 09-29-2007, 03:10 PM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:
Some of us dont play on lame pve servers and raid easy mode.We like the hard mode pvp/raid challenge.Some of the top pvp guilds raid just fine with one faction and would prob do as well as some pve guilds

Lvl lockers (t2 mainly) drive new people away from game.

so you are saying that raiding on pve is easymode? have a look at the raid progression threads.. pvp isnt just lagging, they are streets behind in what they are killing. losing swashies or brigands, as well as templars/inquisitors and defilers/mystics make a big difference; and now (for evil guilds) monks as well.Encounters are balanced for PvE, and (afaik) the only raids that really happen are either in instances, or (for contested) totally broken due to engaging in pvp restrictions (have a lvl 13 fire an arrow at the mt defiler gg) I dont see how this isnt easymode, so much as frustrating. PvPers are specced for pvp, rather than raiding; and their gear mimics this; which only really offers a second-rate raidforce(due to not having the classes, and the spec/gear) even more restrictionsI dont see anything challenging by being beaten by a technicality, or having broken mechanics screw my raid (charm in mmis for exile raids)To answer your statement -I know plenty of family guilds who are probably beaten out by harcore PvP guilds on the raid scene. I dont however know any hardcore raiding guilds that are beaten out by ANY pvp guild.. (even my guild which has barely been raiding for a month is already on 2nd floor of EH; which is (from the raid progression threads) more than most of the current guilds have established in a long while..I dont see how level lockers drive people from the game. Personally I came to pvp only a few months ago, and havent moved from tier3, you can probably still see my thread here asking for help, and advice - I dont see how I was driven from the game, I was just helped by people in my faction.
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Old 09-29-2007, 03:21 PM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:
Bibe wrote:
In the lower tiers the skills and equipment is much more similar - and balance is more or less class (and therefore much more SOE)related than the higher tiers which seem to be more balanced for pvp/pve.
This is just not true. At every tier there are people who've been there for months and have full masters and lots of fabled pieces. The only people who can compete with them are others who've been there for ages. Meanwhile diminishing returns means that alright fabled gear makes some difference, but not that much because of diminishing returns.
Just to clarify. my statement about lower tiers being imbalanced is untrue, however - the diminishing returns curve makes fabled gear ok, but doesnt give that much of an edge - however in the previous sentence you said that the only people who can compete for this fabled gear are the ones who are wearing it..Excuse me for being skeptical of a) your knowledge and b) any semblance of credibility you had.Fabled gear is few and far between; and often it's really only a slight edge; and the toss-up between choices often favours the pvp gear (which is readily available to anyone who pvps) rather than the rare fabled loot that drops in instances. There are exceptions, of course (rat queen, howling bangle, and rings of solar warmth) but really.. the fights will have *much* more to do with class balance, group makeup and communication than by the minor equipment differences, the "un-raring" of rares saw to this (imo)and as for being fully mastered.. It's really not that difficult at all; anyone with a little bit of time can fully equip themselves with ease.So.. in contrast (and on topic) the fabled gear in t7 actually makes a LOT of difference, especially as the EOF gear is expanding into secondary stats a lot more than KoS did, as well as very large stats (35 str on crushbone earing, for example, and the +700 resist-to-all jewellery from collections, which also has decent bonuses to your primary and 2 secondary stats)the curve for resists seems to become grossly exaggerated, and the stats players have has become much more filled and rounded (not to mention that the equivalent happening in the lower tiers is literally unheard of)I'm remaining unconvinced at this point, as the replies seem to be what i was expecting - the flaming of lockers, rather than the explanations of why t7 pvp is so great.
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Old 09-29-2007, 03:23 PM   #15
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Bozidar and Bibe wrote:
There's nothing balanced about the end-game raid-advanced resists, and the broken nature of a handful of classes that are essentially unbeatable in pvp.  That's not the case in other tiers.  Your T5 general toons with full sets of OLD end-game raid gear?  They die to MC noobs like me.  Your lvl 23 strikeofthundermonkies die.. even though they're in a powerful spot for their toon.

 Just to clarify. my statement about lower tiers being imbalanced is untrue, however - the diminishing returns curve makes fabled gear ok, but doesnt give that much of an edge - however in the previous sentence you said that the only people who can compete for this fabled gear are the ones who are wearing it..

I have good raid gear on both of my level 70s. Resists mean very little. Once you're at around 3000, which is easily reachable with the EoF set and the EoF collections, you won't see a lot of difference from then on. High level raid gear is made to deal with high level raid mobs, and most of what they throw at you is not even slightly like what you will get thrown at you at level 70 in PvP. And yes, there are classes (rangers) who are currently overpowered. But that's true in almost every tier, so I don't really see how that argument holds any water. The difference is that at level 70 everyone is staying there for the long haul, so they've all geared/mastered up their characters. The only people at the lower tiers who have are people who've locked. Now granted on Nagafen there are people who've been to the really difficult EoF raid zones and have some of the unbalanced gear, like the Rigid Scale Bow. These people don't exist on Venekor, and on Nagafen are primarily exiles. And honestly it takes about 12 days /played to get to level 70. I'm sure all of you level lockers have similar time logged with your characters. It's rather dull from 64-70 but it's still quick. The diminishing returns curve doesn't kick in when you're at level 17. You go from about 600 mitigation to 1000, which gives you vastly more mitigation than someone who's naturally at that level. And it doesn't matter that the stuff is rare, because these people will go to the instances thirty or fourty times until they get the piece. I've seen twinks wearing almost full sets of fabled gear at level 33. And nor did I say that the only people who can compete for this gear are the ones wearing it. The only people who will go to the trouble of getting a group together to go get it are the twinks. Most people don't spend long enough at level 17 to bother. I have seen level 17/25 twinks sitting afk while two or three people attack them and not go below green. This just isn't possible at level 70 no matter what you're wearing.
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Old 09-29-2007, 04:16 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
I really dont care if you lockers dont lvl up.It takes no skill to kill people in t2 and it just drives new people away from the game.T3 is alittle different.A little bit more skill is needed and the new players have had time to gear up.
So.. here's my question.Why is that everyone who isn't T7 is a locker? And that everyone who hasn't dinged 70 preys on T2 commonland/antonica newbs?Blanket statements suck..

Where did i say everyone that wasnt 70 is a locker?I have 4 toons unlocked and not 70 by a long way.

Venekor t7 pvp may be low but nagafen t7 pvp is very good with a large population.Now if i was on a server that was dead i would proberly lock where the pvp was but on nagafen theres no need as t7 is way more fun than low lvl pvp imo.

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Old 09-29-2007, 04:27 PM   #17
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Bibe wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Some of us dont play on lame pve servers and raid easy mode.We like the hard mode pvp/raid challenge.Some of the top pvp guilds raid just fine with one faction and would prob do as well as some pve guilds

Lvl lockers (t2 mainly) drive new people away from game.

so you are saying that raiding on pve is easymode? have a look at the raid progression threads.. pvp isnt just lagging, they are streets behind in what they are killing. losing swashies or brigands, as well as templars/inquisitors and defilers/mystics make a big difference; and now (for evil guilds) monks as well.Encounters are balanced for PvE, and (afaik) the only raids that really happen are either in instances, or (for contested) totally broken due to engaging in pvp restrictions (have a lvl 13 fire an arrow at the mt defiler gg) I dont see how this isnt easymode, so much as frustrating. PvPers are specced for pvp, rather than raiding; and their gear mimics this; which only really offers a second-rate raidforce(due to not having the classes, and the spec/gear) even more restrictionsI dont see anything challenging by being beaten by a technicality, or having broken mechanics screw my raid (charm in mmis for exile raids)To answer your statement -I know plenty of family guilds who are probably beaten out by harcore PvP guilds on the raid scene. I dont however know any hardcore raiding guilds that are beaten out by ANY pvp guild.. (even my guild which has barely been raiding for a month is already on 2nd floor of EH; which is (from the raid progression threads) more than most of the current guilds have established in a long while..I dont see how level lockers drive people from the game. Personally I came to pvp only a few months ago, and havent moved from tier3, you can probably still see my thread here asking for help, and advice - I dont see how I was driven from the game, I was just helped by people in my faction.

Pve is =easy mode.Pvp = hard mode for raiding.What part didnt you understand.

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Old 09-29-2007, 04:47 PM   #18
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Bibe wrote:
All the time I see people slating ''lockers'' because they are lame, etc etc. I'm just wondering - what's so great about level 70 that you *have* to get there.Personally The only real difference I see is that you get the full set of skills..the difference in gear and skills is massively different (more skills = more masters = more plat to equip properly)  and more items = larger range of lesser skilled nubs.In the lower tiers the skills and equipment is much more similar - and balance is more or less class (and therefore much more SOE)related than the higher tiers which seem to be more balanced for pvp/pve.So why, pray tell - is level 70 so great to be to pvp? I have pve characters in abundance, and have seen more endgame content there than I will ever see in pvp t7 (it's simply not possible to be in 2 raiding guilds, and why would I want to be in a faction based pvp guild or an exile guild, when I am already killing content that few pvp guilds see)my point here is that pvping at 70 isnt for content (personally) and I am struggling to see the appeal of levelling through 5 tiers of twinks, to then have to battle through my 60s (or grind in instances) to 70 just to then be less equipped and need more equipment there than the people already there.Help a brother out, list the reasons that we should all be levelling to 70, cos I am really interested (and your reasoning being that level lockers are all lamers or w/e really doesnt cut the mustard)
To address one specific comment from your post:  Because there are from 19 - 38 (assuming 1 to 2 true end game raiding guilds on each server) bluebie guilds who have done and are doing the same thing.   Why do you end game raid?   To see the hardest encounters that EQ2 has?  Blue or Red servers; where would it be harder?To address the post in general:  The thing with EQ2 PvP servers is that if you are interested in nothing other than PvP, as in no tier specific content and don't mind playing a class without the full array of abilities, then you can potentially make any certain level the "end game" level, by locking, twinking and min/maxing the class for that meta game.  This is the reason why you are even needing to ask this question in the first place.Play as you wish.  Both locked PvP and end game PvP have their appeal.  You've already heard the reasons before, so no need to ask.  In a game that can be played so many different ways, others aren't going to have the answer for you.So in short, the reasons of others don't matter.  Its your $15.  Its your time.
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Old 09-29-2007, 05:10 PM   #19
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Bibe wrote:
All the time I see people slating ''lockers'' because they are lame, etc etc. I'm just wondering - what's so great about level 70 that you *have* to get there.Personally The only real difference I see is that you get the full set of skills..the difference in gear and skills is massively different (more skills = more masters = more plat to equip properly)  and more items = larger range of lesser skilled nubs.In the lower tiers the skills and equipment is much more similar - and balance is more or less class (and therefore much more SOE)related than the higher tiers which seem to be more balanced for pvp/pve.So why, pray tell - is level 70 so great to be to pvp? I have pve characters in abundance, and have seen more endgame content there than I will ever see in pvp t7 (it's simply not possible to be in 2 raiding guilds, and why would I want to be in a faction based pvp guild or an exile guild, when I am already killing content that few pvp guilds see)my point here is that pvping at 70 isnt for content (personally) and I am struggling to see the appeal of levelling through 5 tiers of twinks, to then have to battle through my 60s (or grind in instances) to 70 just to then be less equipped and need more equipment there than the people already there.Help a brother out, list the reasons that we should all be levelling to 70, cos I am really interested (and your reasoning being that level lockers are all lamers or w/e really doesnt cut the mustard)
I will tell you why 70 is better. Do you think it's fun to see a group with people who are all mastered out and fabled geared nuking you with spells you don't have yet?I don't think so.. Before level 70 there shouldn't be any level locking since people take advantage of that like scouts who can track lower level players to gank,, and they can do that forever. Where's the skill in that? Now you maybe say,, they can do that even if they don't level lock!Yea sure they can,, but then you don't see guilds who has all level locked meant to kill lowbies.At 70 it's stop. You compete at the same conditions,, no higher level characters killing you with abilities you don't have cause you can't quest alone since these higher level twinks can kill you, without you havig any chance at all to kill them.Why does SoE allow this when they have set a level limit at 70? Remove the limit and let everyone do what they want then..Same as why can't I mentor down and pvp then? Why allow level locking? Should be the same,, if you want to level lock then you shouldn't be able to engage in pvp as you can't do when you are mentoring.Mentoring is for helping lower level friends with the pve part. Level locking is to be able to do all the quests at your level, not to abuse to make a powerful twink to gank people with. Or is it?Same thing, you shouldn't be able to take advantage of having a 70 who can give your lowbie uber fabled gear and level lock him to farm lowbie players who's trying to reach 70 to try the endgame, as you can't use your 70 char to mentor down and use the uber gear you allready have equipped. I know people who has level 70 chars who rather play with their twinks. And when I asked them why? Answer was "My 70 has crap gear" = I suck competing against other players at same level who's playing at the same conditions and prolly much better at gearing up, thats why I rather kill ungeared lowbies...*puke*Btw should I stay at level 20 or 28 with my ranger twink?
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Old 09-29-2007, 08:54 PM   #20
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My personal thoughts on getting to 70. Honestly thats where the true challenge of the game starts. I mean come on a monkey can roll a toon, lock it, gear it out, and use all 8 ca that they have to gank new chars. I am working my way to 70 on my dirge and I know I will have a blast when I get there. Following my dirge my inquis will follow to 70 prolly 80 by then. Also take into account that the new expansion will be mostly 70 to 80 content. So let the lamers lock out in t2 and such they will just miss out on all the great new stuff that RoK will have to offer.
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Old 09-29-2007, 09:42 PM   #21
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Hinosh wrote:
I think it's because they're all so lonely at level 70 and there's no way to un-level your character to a more popular tier so they tell you how great it is up there so more players will go there lawlz
This nonsense makes me laugh.Like we can't make a lowbie in like a day if we didn't want to.level 70's HAVE played all the tiers.  Lowbies haven't.Classes are more balanced in higher tiers, and you have full access to all your CA's.  A lowbie in t2 or t3 has what, 10 CA's?  if that? 
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Old 09-29-2007, 10:26 PM   #22
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Getting to 70 requires dedication, and pvp at endgame requires that not only you know your own class really well, but also all other classes. You need to know their abilities and how to counter them. In the lower tiers the classes aren't yet defined, hell it used to be the case that you only became a ranger (or any other class) at level 20. Up to that point the classes were (and still are) pretty much the same. In short pvp in T7 requires dedication and more knowledge of the game, thus making the players that eccel there better by default. Now who would you prefer to fight? Generic es-WoW casual Joe Gamer or the best players in the game? If you're just a part-time player on this server like yourself then sure, low level pvp is the way to go, but if this is the only server you play on then end game is where it's at. And as for raiding on a pvp server: a contested here requires more then showing up, which will usually suffice to get it down on a pve server.
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Old 09-30-2007, 03:17 AM   #23
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grats to phaust for being the first person to have a relevant answer for the OP.I already see endgame content, and contested is fairly meh.. logging in at offpeak times with a group at every major level range to protect you from people trying to put you in pvp combat is broken, rather than hard, I doubt I will miss that; avatars may be the hardest in the game, but a 30minute fight being ruined by a couple of lowbies with arrows.. I'm not sure I would find that challenging so much as frustrating. Also, I have no doubt that there are a few guilds which have locked down many of the contested already; like all servers, contested raid content is seen most often by the few, rather than the many.I disagree that low level classes have no definition. Wizards nuke, assassins stab, chanters mez, fighters taunt- apart from the ATs, it's still pretty relevant. There are more things to understand and know in tier7 I am sure, but that doesnt make me want to level to play thereDo you think it's fun to see a group with people who are all mastered out and fabled geared nuking you with spells you don't have yet? yes, actually. I enjoy knowing that as a lvl 14, fighting a lvl 16 wiz will be hard, because he now has flame chamber; or a 28 coercer will be much more powerful because they have despotic mind now, whereas they were less potent at 27, and even more so at 22.. fighting a lvl 24 fury, knowing that he has m2 thunderstrike, and probably energy vortex too..when your targets are yellow and orange (and possibly red too) it makes things much more interesting (for me at least) and adds a lot of depth to the game.To address one specific comment from your post:  Because there are from 19 - 38 (assuming 1 to 2 true end game raiding guilds on each server) bluebie guilds who have done and are doing the same thing.   Why do you end game raid?   To see the hardest encounters that EQ2 has? Blue or Red servers; where would it be harder?Pve is =easy mode.Pvp = hard mode for raiding.What part didnt you understand. harder != broken. I have no interest in paying to play with broken mechanics; and not seeing content due to not having the classes to make this possible would be frustrating, rather than challenging. I wouldve thought that the ''but you get to endgame raid where it is more difficult and frustrating'' wouldnt be such a major playing card for a reason to get to 70, rather than lock in the lower tiers.Again - the things that are great about being 70. stop slating lowend/locked pvp, I just want to hear about endgame pvp, and why everyone should be headed there. Because it's certainly not for the raiding.
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Old 09-30-2007, 04:00 AM   #24
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generally at 70 most people know how to [I cannot control my vocabulary] play and dont suck completely at the game..tier 7 pvp takes more strategy and i know some complete [I cannot control my vocabulary] is gonna reply and say OH well my level 45 general in FULL gear that procs fears stuns and stifles has to have a read strat to kill that bot wizard who is farming those TS nodes all day. I have two 70s its much more fun because its a much more equal playing field, you have people in full raid gear that are still VERY killable, unlike at level 15 when if someone is fully adorned level 12 mc gear and fabled with that  nightmare horse and [I cannot control my vocabulary] you probably cant kill them.i enjoy the endgame 6v6 or 12 v 12 pvp because the fights are generally always won on skill and gear is not that much really... you can see the best raid guilds die in pvp alot to constant pvpers
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Old 09-30-2007, 04:31 AM   #25
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Bibe wrote:
grats to phaust for being the first person to have a relevant answer for the OP.I already see endgame content, and contested is fairly meh.. logging in at offpeak times with a group at every major level range to protect you from people trying to put you in pvp combat is broken, rather than hard, I doubt I will miss that; avatars may be the hardest in the game, but a 30minute fight being ruined by a couple of lowbies with arrows.. I'm not sure I would find that challenging so much as frustrating. Also, I have no doubt that there are a few guilds which have locked down many of the contested already; like all servers, contested raid content is seen most often by the few, rather than the many.I disagree that low level classes have no definition. Wizards nuke, assassins stab, chanters mez, fighters taunt- apart from the ATs, it's still pretty relevant. There are more things to understand and know in tier7 I am sure, but that doesnt make me want to level to play thereDo you think it's fun to see a group with people who are all mastered out and fabled geared nuking you with spells you don't have yet? yes, actually. I enjoy knowing that as a lvl 14, fighting a lvl 16 wiz will be hard, because he now has flame chamber; or a 28 coercer will be much more powerful because they have despotic mind now, whereas they were less potent at 27, and even more so at 22.. fighting a lvl 24 fury, knowing that he has m2 thunderstrike, and probably energy vortex too..when your targets are yellow and orange (and possibly red too) it makes things much more interesting (for me at least) and adds a lot of depth to the game.To address one specific comment from your post:  Because there are from 19 - 38 (assuming 1 to 2 true end game raiding guilds on each server) bluebie guilds who have done and are doing the same thing.   Why do you end game raid?   To see the hardest encounters that EQ2 has? Blue or Red servers; where would it be harder?Pve is =easy mode.Pvp = hard mode for raiding.What part didnt you understand. harder != broken. I have no interest in paying to play with broken mechanics; and not seeing content due to not having the classes to make this possible would be frustrating, rather than challenging. I wouldve thought that the ''but you get to endgame raid where it is more difficult and frustrating'' wouldnt be such a major playing card for a reason to get to 70, rather than lock in the lower tiers.Again - the things that are great about being 70. stop slating lowend/locked pvp, I just want to hear about endgame pvp, and why everyone should be headed there. Because it's certainly not for the raiding.

Thats prob the most stupid thing ever written..Spoken like a true blue server player.If its too hard dont try.You will go far in life with that attitude.

You do realise you can go and join a exile guild for raiding with all the classes if you wish.How is this broken?Soe gives you a choice.

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Old 09-30-2007, 05:47 AM   #26
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please stop pressing reply as your erudition has given way to ignorance, i will give you another example: Charm is an often used tool in mmis (its a tier7 eof zone in mistmoores castle) mobs there charm the mt; who then starts attacking the raid force, as an exile, fighting other exiles, he is put into pvp combat, and therefore so is the rest of the raid. ensue- wipe.I'm quite unsure why ''spoken like a true blue server player'' is meant to be an insult, all context points to you trying to offend me, but you are only portraying yourself as ill informed. As for '' the most stupid thing ever written"; may I suggest you peruse some of your own posts.As for if it's not hard dont try - please have a look at the class I am playing, and the tier I am playing in. It's in a pretty picture at the bottom of each and every one of my posts. I am astounded that I am accused of playing on /easymode by some random forum troll, when it is really quite obvious that this is not the case*edit: to clarify, many of my kills are solo, or duo, or with random pickup groups, as my guild is on US time, and I am australian, I generally only get to group with them when I play late-nights, or weekends.Oh, and as an addendum - when I want something truly difficult for individual skill, I tend to play RTS or FPS, rather than MMOs SMILEYPlease stop posting in this thread zorros, it was not meant for your ilk.*requires intelligence on the behalf of the troll, also blinkers must be taken off (blinkers are those things on horses that cover their eyes so they can only see in the particular direction that they are being pointed in by their masters)
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Old 09-30-2007, 07:31 AM   #27
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Bibe wrote:
please stop pressing reply as your erudition has given way to ignorance, i will give you another example: Charm is an often used tool in mmis (its a tier7 eof zone in mistmoores castle) mobs there charm the mt; who then starts attacking the raid force, as an exile, fighting other exiles, he is put into pvp combat, and therefore so is the rest of the raid. ensue- wipe.I'm quite unsure why ''spoken like a true blue server player'' is meant to be an insult, all context points to you trying to offend me, but you are only portraying yourself as ill informed. As for '' the most stupid thing ever written"; may I suggest you peruse some of your own posts.As for if it's not hard dont try - please have a look at the class I am playing, and the tier I am playing in. It's in a pretty picture at the bottom of each and every one of my posts. I am astounded that I am accused of playing on /easymode by some random forum troll, when it is really quite obvious that this is not the case*edit: to clarify, many of my kills are solo, or duo, or with random pickup groups, as my guild is on US time, and I am australian, I generally only get to group with them when I play late-nights, or weekends.Oh, and as an addendum - when I want something truly difficult for individual skill, I tend to play RTS or FPS, rather than MMOs SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15">Please stop posting in this thread zorros, it was not meant for your ilk.*requires intelligence on the behalf of the troll, also blinkers must be taken off (blinkers are those things on horses that cover their eyes so they can only see in the particular direction that they are being pointed in by their masters)

I soloed a coercer to 56 then exiled him then went illus.Your point on playing a "hard" class is what?.Coercers totally rock after 24.Scouts/druids/tanks get eaten alive by them.The only class that gave my coercer any trouble what so ever was a illusionist.

If you bothered to read my post you would realise i am saying Blue server raiding is easy mode.Oh and btw i have been raiding a long time before pvp came out.Eq1 through to time and GoD and then EQ2 till pvp came out.I like the fact we have to think alittle bit for a raid because we dont have every class to use.

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Old 09-30-2007, 07:44 AM   #28
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Bibe wrote:
please stop pressing reply as your erudition has given way to ignorance, i will give you another example: Charm is an often used tool in mmis (its a tier7 eof zone in mistmoores castle) mobs there charm the mt; who then starts attacking the raid force, as an exile, fighting other exiles, he is put into pvp combat, and therefore so is the rest of the raid. ensue- wipe.I'm quite unsure why ''spoken like a true blue server player'' is meant to be an insult, all context points to you trying to offend me, but you are only portraying yourself as ill informed. As for '' the most stupid thing ever written"; may I suggest you peruse some of your own posts.As for if it's not hard dont try - please have a look at the class I am playing, and the tier I am playing in. It's in a pretty picture at the bottom of each and every one of my posts. I am astounded that I am accused of playing on /easymode by some random forum troll, when it is really quite obvious that this is not the case*edit: to clarify, many of my kills are solo, or duo, or with random pickup groups, as my guild is on US time, and I am australian, I generally only get to group with them when I play late-nights, or weekends.Oh, and as an addendum - when I want something truly difficult for individual skill, I tend to play RTS or FPS, rather than MMOs SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />Please stop posting in this thread zorros, it was not meant for your ilk.*requires intelligence on the behalf of the troll, also blinkers must be taken off (blinkers are those things on horses that cover their eyes so they can only see in the particular direction that they are being pointed in by their masters)
So are you saying exile guilds cant do mmis?
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:40 AM   #29
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Bibe wrote:
why would I want to be in a faction based pvp guild or an exile guild, when I am already killing content that few pvp guilds see
lol you're in some scrub guild on najena that's probably never killed a contested and barely clears eh and mmis. i play on pvp, i'm 70, i pvp with some of the best, i have also fought every encounter in game with my guild and killed contesteds (including avatars and mayong) whilst others were rez zerging us. getting to 70 to be the best you can be in all aspects of the game and play with really cool ppl is what this game's all about
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:45 AM   #30
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Bibe wrote:
All the time I see people slating ''lockers'' because they are lame, etc etc. I'm just wondering - what's so great about level 70 that you *have* to get there.Personally The only real difference I see is that you get the full set of skills..the difference in gear and skills is massively different (more skills = more masters = more plat to equip properly)  and more items = larger range of lesser skilled nubs.In the lower tiers the skills and equipment is much more similar - and balance is more or less class (and therefore much more SOE)related than the higher tiers which seem to be more balanced for pvp/pve.So why, pray tell - is level 70 so great to be to pvp? I have pve characters in abundance, and have seen more endgame content there than I will ever see in pvp t7 (it's simply not possible to be in 2 raiding guilds, and why would I want to be in a faction based pvp guild or an exile guild, when I am already killing content that few pvp guilds see)my point here is that pvping at 70 isnt for content (personally) and I am struggling to see the appeal of levelling through 5 tiers of twinks, to then have to battle through my 60s (or grind in instances) to 70 just to then be less equipped and need more equipment there than the people already there.Help a brother out, list the reasons that we should all be levelling to 70, cos I am really interested (and your reasoning being that level lockers are all lamers or w/e really doesnt cut the mustard)
Really there is no good reason to do it.  The most fun I had pvp'ing was at T2 in Ant.  Use to run my zine through archers wood causing all sorts of havoic -- those were the days, sigh.  IMO, the only reason to progress is if you want to see other content in the game (which is a very good reason since there is a lot of content), or perhaps if there is a particularly annoying opponent who you want to get a lvl advantage on.
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