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Old 06-08-2012, 09:04 PM   #241
Breckin

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Smed wrote:

I've asked the team to put them back up for a week to let people buy them with existing SC. We should have been more thoughtful about this and I apologize for handling it the way we have. I'm not sure when it will be back up. Maybe today or maybe Monday (a lot of our team went to E3).

Smed

This is the right thing to do and the right way to handle it.  People that built up SC will have the chance now to unload some or part of it actually knowing that it could go away.  While they should have known this anway by reading the EULA it was a terrible business move by SoE.  I very much like the idea of letting people who rely on SC to pay for subs have a little advance notice (especially just after a SC promotion) even if it isn't something that is promised by the EULA.  It makes good business sense.  And maybe it will quiet the "Haha you lose" people that have nothing better to do than toss fuel on the fire here in this thread.

As a side note, I wouldn't mind one bit if SoE took away purchasing subscriptions with SC and let them remain purchasable via game cards with time allotments and all the other usual methods.  It would, in my opinion, decorrupt the game in the sense it would remove the Platinum -> SC -> Subscriptions nonsense.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:06 PM   #242
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Confirmed. Non-recurring subs are back on the marketplace now.

Thank you again Smed.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:11 PM   #243
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I hope this doesn't come off as greedy, but what about doing a triple station cash day? I think it would be fair for the people who bought cards for the reason of paying for a sub, but didn't redeem them.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:13 PM   #244
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Smed wrote:

I've asked the team to put them back up for a week to let people buy them with existing SC. We should have been more thoughtful about this and I apologize for handling it the way we have. I'm not sure when it will be back up. Maybe today or maybe Monday (a lot of our team went to E3).

Smed

I have to give to you props for doing the right thing here.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:46 PM   #245
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http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=519050

Piestro wrote:

Some of you may have noticed that non-recurring subscriptions are no longer available on the Marketplace. This change was premature, and the option will be restored. However, we do intend to discontinue offering non-recurring subscriptions in the near future, and we will be sure to let you know in advance when this occurs.

We apologize for any confusion.

Reposting here as it is relevant to this discussion.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:57 PM   #246
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Smed wrote:

Quick note - I'm sorry we didn't do a good job of messaging this. It was handled while we were at E3 and that was bad. Very simply put we pulled the non-recurring subscriptions because we want a closer look at the numbers and how our overall pricing of subscriptions is impacted by it. I don't want anyone thinking they were pulled because of double DC promotions or anything like that. We know what we're getting into when we run those promotions. We've been running them for years and we run them because our players like them. It may surprise people, but we actually see terrific numbers on the days we run those promotions so it's a win-win for our players and for us.

We're trying to figure out the right balance of things that make our customers feel great about our pricing and balance that against our customer base as a whole. We aren't saying they are going away for good.. we're just looking carefully at the data right now and how we do this right. Please be patient while we figure this out. These non-recurring subscriptions are something we're still working through and we want to make sure we do this right. Obviously as a business we have to make sure the decisions we're making good for our players, and I assure you that's what we're trying to do.

I'm going to be quite frank here, and hopefully it will be found as constructive because that is the intent. Kudos to you first for making this post, you honestly should hit the boards every now and then, definately don't need to hear directly from you on a regular basis that is what you have your team for, this though warranted a post from you and you stepped up.

Smed wrote:

I've asked the team to put them back up for a week to let people buy them with existing SC. We should have been more thoughtful about this and I apologize for handling it the way we have. I'm not sure when it will be back up. Maybe today or maybe Monday (a lot of our team went to E3).

I understand a lot of your team went to E3. It is back up now or should be rather quickly according to Covic. E3 can not cause work to stop at home base though. There were fixes to rewards of current content that we were told should be here on the 5th or 6th, nothing has materialized, no follow up post, nothing. The patch list that went to test today, the text for the Ally of Othmir achievement was fixed... John, sorry, Mr. Smedley really? Things like this can not be allowed to pile up and collect dust it does nothing but bring about more complacency. YOU absolutely under no circumstance should settle for that, I'm sure some people are rolling their eyes and saying it is just a text description of an achievement, it doesn't mean that much. Well it actually does, because when you settle for that being good enough in an imperfect state, then you settle for another thing and another and another, and eventually the Poets Palace contest gets released in the fashion that is was, the ongoing and never fixed itemization issues from DoV pt1 never get fixed and it tarnishes the image of the game, of the company and ultimately YOU. I implore you to take some time to examine and evaluate the look and feel section and the EXCELLENCE that Tom Tobey displays and the rapidity that he gets on things and gets them fixed. Polish is not only looks sir, polish can also be applied to things you can not see visually, but you certainly notice them while playing. I know you know this, or at least knew at one time, maybe along the way you have forgotten it. We need our itemization and drop rates to have much more priority than what they are getting, we need things like the renewing bulwark on the new gear that we get to actually work (RENEW and not just drain until you unequip and reequip it)

Sorry for the wall of text

tl;dr version

EQ2 is by far the best MMORPG that has ever been, I've played since '05 (this is my box account., My main is in a bit of trouble here at the moment hence I'm posting from this one)

Stop playing limbo with these other companies, it isn't enough to set the bar higher than them if it is not being set as high as it can be, because if you don't someone will step right over it when you are not looking.

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Old 06-08-2012, 10:16 PM   #247
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Breckin wrote:

Smed wrote:

I've asked the team to put them back up for a week to let people buy them with existing SC. We should have been more thoughtful about this and I apologize for handling it the way we have. I'm not sure when it will be back up. Maybe today or maybe Monday (a lot of our team went to E3).

Smed

This is the right thing to do and the right way to handle it.  People that built up SC will have the chance now to unload some or part of it actually knowing that it could go away.  While they should have known this anway by reading the EULA it was a terrible business move by SoE.  I very much like the idea of letting people who rely on SC to pay for subs have a little advance notice (especially just after a SC promotion) even if it isn't something that is promised by the EULA.  It makes good business sense.  And maybe it will quiet the "Haha you lose" people that have nothing better to do than toss fuel on the fire here in this thread.

As a side note, I wouldn't mind one bit if SoE took away purchasing subscriptions with SC and let them remain purchasable via game cards with time allotments and all the other usual methods.  It would, in my opinion, decorrupt the game in the sense it would remove the Platinum -> SC -> Subscriptions nonsense.

confused - according to Smed's post the subscriptions are back for a week, so what you are asking will still be done

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Old 06-08-2012, 10:19 PM   #248
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Calthine wrote:

Does anyone remember when they "nerfed" gnomish stilts because their awesome jump power allowed for exploits of geometry?  Or when they removed the ability camp to characters who were not visible because they were over your character limit?  There was a nice post along the lines of "Sorry folks, we all knew this one was too good to be true and wasn't going to last.  It was fun while it's lasted, but it's time to close it down."

I think that's all that most folks wanted here.

They silently removed the ability to camp to non-available characters a couple years ago.  What was happening was people who originally had the $30 membership, which gave you up to 12 character slots, were downgrading to the regular $15 membership, which gave you only 7 character slots.  However, if you knew the name of the toons that weren't available, you could camp to them instead, and still have full access to them.  Sony stealth removed that without any notification or warning, people became outraged.  Sony then replaced the option for a week, and introduced the character slot purchase option.  So yes, they did address the error, and in a way that satisfied people.  However, are they still going to give the option of multi-month renewals for non-recurring subscribers?  I can't purchase through credit cards, I simply don't have the income available.  I DO, however, through hard work and savings, have the ability to purchase sc with plat.  This isn't an easy thing for me, but I put forth the effort, and SOMEONE is paying SOE for the sc, even if it isn't me.  I would be happy to pay for multi-month subs if I get a similar discount without giving out a credit card.

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:03 PM   #249
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Thank you for doing the right thing.

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:29 PM   #250
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Wingrider01 wrote:

Breckin wrote:

Smed wrote:

I've asked the team to put them back up for a week to let people buy them with existing SC. We should have been more thoughtful about this and I apologize for handling it the way we have. I'm not sure when it will be back up. Maybe today or maybe Monday (a lot of our team went to E3).

Smed

This is the right thing to do and the right way to handle it.  People that built up SC will have the chance now to unload some or part of it actually knowing that it could go away.  While they should have known this anway by reading the EULA it was a terrible business move by SoE.  I very much like the idea of letting people who rely on SC to pay for subs have a little advance notice (especially just after a SC promotion) even if it isn't something that is promised by the EULA.  It makes good business sense.  And maybe it will quiet the "Haha you lose" people that have nothing better to do than toss fuel on the fire here in this thread.

As a side note, I wouldn't mind one bit if SoE took away purchasing subscriptions with SC and let them remain purchasable via game cards with time allotments and all the other usual methods.  It would, in my opinion, decorrupt the game in the sense it would remove the Platinum -> SC -> Subscriptions nonsense.

confused - according to Smed's post the subscriptions are back for a week, so what you are asking will still be done

Yes, I neglected to say that I meant later on after a reasonable warning period.

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:37 PM   #251
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Pakhet wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Pakhet wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I paid with CC and if you are going to do math do all the math....with a CC payment you are getting $5 worth of station cash a month X 12 months that $60 bucks add that in with the $40-50 people are paying for the station cash and wow look they are the same....what are you saying you wish you were paying more? hmm i bought a t.v for $2000 and you bought the same T.V for $2500 do you go on about it cause i was a bit better at shopping and saved $500?

You get worse at math -500/200

$14.99 x 12 = $179.88

If you bought it as a flat yearly it's $119.88

Now - on triple I bought 2 $15 cards for $30 at walmart. I got 1 year subscription. Even with the 500 free SC at $60 a year, that is a $29.88 different of SC being cheaper vs a credit card.

Rebate rolls around I still have the SC stored up from the triple. So not only did I get triple SC (2x6 = 12,000) I also got a 50% rebate off my subscription, so I got to keep 6,000 of that 12,000. $15 for a year. $44.88 cheaper than someone paying with a credit card.

SoE cannot take that much of a loss off a subscription and still make a profit. That would be like gamestop instead of offering once you spend thousands at their store a stupid $50 coupon, making membership be buy one brand new game, get 3 free. They'd go under fast.

And "free to play your way" does not mean "you get to be a premium member for free". Please. It means you can be bronze, or silver and not pay monthly. Gold was always, in every game, across the MMO universe meant to be paid for.

I will agree they should have given a warning about it though.

How did i get worse at math? if you read the posts i was going off the numbers that were posted i know the price for subscription been paying the fees since EQ1 launched...

now i would like to know how off 2 $15 cards on triple SC day you managed to get a $119 yearly subscription? not here to go on about math i know numbers.

If some think buying the triple case and using it to buy subscriptions was wrong complain to SOE they were the ones that did it. Now as for using double and triple as an incentive to get people to open thier wallets then just canceling what they clearly know people bought the SC for is just wrong....

How did I get a $119 yearly sub off 2 $15 cards on triple? Quite easily. Walmart cards are 1500 + 500 bonus. So that is 2,000 SC x3 on triple = 6,000 SC. The yearly non-recurring is 11,988 SC. Each $15 card was 6,000 SC - 2 cards = 12,000 SC = 1 yearly sub. When I also bought one off the rebate using the SC I got off triple, I spent 11,988 and got HALF of that back. So I was left with nearly 6,000 SC left over, after buying a yearly, roughly making a yearly subscription $15. Simple math.

Yes, they were the ones that did it. Which is why they have removed it. And why I don't mind that they did and anyone complaining really shouldn't be. The way they handled it was poor yes, they should have given notice. But since they are fixing it with restoring it so you can spend SC, not much to complain about.

It's worse than that, Jim.

Buy 2 cards, triple them in the triple weekend, wait and spend them on a Rebate Weekend (buy 12 months) and then resub on recurring and get 6000SC FREE over the next 12 months (you cc will never be charged as long as you top up with SC again in the next 12 months).

Interestingly the 6000 free SC would be enough to buy another 12 month sub (on the next Rebate Weekend, as long as you balance was enough to pay the full 11,988SC). Pay 11,988SC get half back.

So basically, if you keep atleast 6000SC on your account (better to have 6500SC to be safe) you could pay your 12 month sub from the monthly 500 free SC saved over the year.

Never pay anything for EQ2 again!

I can see why they changed this, no company can exist if they fund their own game and nobody pays a cent.

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:45 PM   #252
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Dumb question all please,

How much station cash does Sub to everquest 2 or vanguard or eq1 cost and where in station store can you buy it?

Last question is, can you gift station cash still to another account?

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:58 PM   #253
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Alliera wrote:

Dumb question all please,

How much station cash does Sub to everquest 2 or vanguard or eq1 cost and where in station store can you buy it?

Last question is, can you gift station cash still to another account?

I'm not in game, but look in the in-game Marketplace under Memberships.

No, you cannot gift Station Cash (unless you buy a card and give someone else the code).

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Old 06-09-2012, 12:03 AM   #254
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Calthine wrote:

Alliera wrote:

Dumb question all please,

How much station cash does Sub to everquest 2 or vanguard or eq1 cost and where in station store can you buy it?

Last question is, can you gift station cash still to another account?

I'm not in game, but look in the in-game Marketplace under Memberships.

No, you cannot gift Station Cash (unless you buy a card and give someone else the code).

Im looking ok,

I see memberships ok?

But under that see memberships with dollars on them for 1 month at time, 3, 6, 12 etc where is memberships can pay with station cash or are those them but mislabled?

I have always had all access accounts since eq 1-4 betas and eq 2 etc but its for alt account had to buy alot of games this month pre order etc for 3 mmos all collectors and times 4 accounts for each game so 12 collectors and all our normal subs thats is alot of money.

So again see memberships but where is it to sub with station cash? under that and how much station cash per 30 day sub does it cost?

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Old 06-09-2012, 12:08 AM   #255
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Alliera wrote:

Calthine wrote:

Alliera wrote:

Dumb question all please,

How much station cash does Sub to everquest 2 or vanguard or eq1 cost and where in station store can you buy it?

Last question is, can you gift station cash still to another account?

I'm not in game, but look in the in-game Marketplace under Memberships.

No, you cannot gift Station Cash (unless you buy a card and give someone else the code).

Im looking ok,

I see memberships ok?

But under that see memberships with dollars on them for 1 month at time, 3, 6, 12 etc where is memberships can pay with station cash or are those them but mislabled?

I have always had all access accounts since eq 1-4 betas and eq 2 etc but its for alt account had to buy alot of games this month pre order etc for 3 mmos all collectors and times 4 accounts for each game so 12 collectors and all our normal subs thats is alot of money.

So again see memberships but where is it to sub with station cash? under that and how much station cash per 30 day sub does it cost?

Look under non-recurring.

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Old 06-09-2012, 01:11 AM   #256
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Smed wrote:

Quick note - I'm sorry we didn't do a good job of messaging this. It was handled while we were at E3 and that was bad. Very simply put we pulled the non-recurring subscriptions because we want a closer look at the numbers and how our overall pricing of subscriptions is impacted by it. I don't want anyone thinking they were pulled because of double DC promotions or anything like that. We know what we're getting into when we run those promotions. We've been running them for years and we run them because our players like them. It may surprise people, but we actually see terrific numbers on the days we run those promotions so it's a win-win for our players and for us.

We're trying to figure out the right balance of things that make our customers feel great about our pricing and balance that against our customer base as a whole. We aren't saying they are going away for good.. we're just looking carefully at the data right now and how we do this right. Please be patient while we figure this out. These non-recurring subscriptions are something we're still working through and we want to make sure we do this right. Obviously as a business we have to make sure the decisions we're making good for our players, and I assure you that's what we're trying to do.

Smed

Apologizing for your company's missteps has become commonplace.  Your reasoning is completely illogical.  You're pulling a subscription method, because you want to find out how your subscription pricing is impacted?  Right.  Surely, you could look at those numbers without removing the chosen method of MANY people to subscribe.  Clearly, you don't care that you're going to lose subscribers.  I suppose that's really what you're saying:  How many of our customers can we drive away, and still stay afloat.  The answer:  Not too many more.

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Old 06-09-2012, 08:11 AM   #257
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ok.. I just looked and for the uk;splitpaw I still can see the sc choice 1 month non recurring.  Did they only remove it for US?

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Old 06-09-2012, 08:33 AM   #258
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Ashlanne wrote:

We are constantly working to test new products and offers in our marketplaces and will periodically remove and add items as we evolve our commerce.

We encourage customers to check in regularly to see what's new as we will be implementing more and more changes and tests moving forward.

The term "TEST" really bothers me.

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Old 06-09-2012, 09:00 AM   #259
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Eshaac wrote:

ok.. I just looked and for the uk;splitpaw I still can see the sc choice 1 month non recurring.  Did they only remove it for US?

Eshaac

they took them off then smed asked the team to put them back for a week.

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Old 06-09-2012, 09:15 AM   #260
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General_Info wrote:

Eshaac wrote:

ok.. I just looked and for the uk;splitpaw I still can see the sc choice 1 month non recurring.  Did they only remove it for US?

Eshaac

they took them off then smed asked the team to put them back for a week.

Ah, I see ok.. Thanks

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Old 06-09-2012, 09:36 AM   #261
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Thank you Mr. Smedley for communicating transparently about this issue, and giving a 1 week grace period.

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Old 06-09-2012, 09:41 AM   #262
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SC subscriptions are back up at marketplace (not over website) with a timer of 7 days....so hurry up. SMILEY

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Old 06-09-2012, 10:16 AM   #263
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This is just sad. I just dont understand.

You get plat and somone gives your sc card. The person getting card plays SOE money..

Your birthday soon and family wants to give a gift. You ask for some sc cards to pay your sub. SOE gets family money

It is double SC day you go down to your store to get sc cards (to pay for your sub..yes sont lose a little money but it your falut doing double sc days)

It this time where some are rich and others are not it was nice having another way to pay. Now with this gone you will see less subs and sales for sc cards go down. Maybe that is your plan to take away sc.

So doing this is not saving you any money. It is hurting your customer base. The only thing I see is your trying to save your own face due to 50% reabte thing. This is an error on your part not customer. Like I said in another post I been playing this game since in was in beta and now I just don't know anymore. I just dont think you guys thinking of your cusotmers at all...

Please rethink this.

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Old 06-09-2012, 10:22 AM   #264
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[email protected] wrote:

It is double SC day you go down to your store to get sc cards (to pay for your sub..yes sont lose a little money but it your falut doing double sc days)

Only thing I see is your trying to save your own face due to 50% reabte thing. This is an error on your part not customer.

Please rethink this.

So on one hand you say the Double/Triple SC and Rebates are indeed mistakes when it comes to Subs, but then turn around and say that they shouldn't take SC Subs away? /boggle

I guess they could stop giving Double/Triple SC or Rebate days... but I would wager more customers utilize those days than those that use SC Subs.

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Old 06-09-2012, 10:41 AM   #265
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Ahlana wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

It is double SC day you go down to your store to get sc cards (to pay for your sub..yes sont lose a little money but it your falut doing double sc days)

Only thing I see is your trying to save your own face due to 50% reabte thing. This is an error on your part not customer.

Please rethink this.

So on one hand you say the Double/Triple SC and Rebates are indeed mistakes when it comes to Subs, but then turn around and say that they shouldn't take SC Subs away? /boggle

I guess they could stop giving Double/Triple SC or Rebate days... but I would wager more customers utilize those days than those that use SC Subs.

Pretty simple solution is to remove the 2x/3x SC sales (even they didnt hurt acc. to Smed), and do marketplace sales at one-half/one-third price of todays special sales days which simply exclude subscriptions.

Taaadaaa, you can have both, extreme cheap item sales and subscription payed by SC.

And as SC can also be bought without CC those that wont give CC data to SOE again are also happy.

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Old 06-09-2012, 11:05 AM   #266
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Madsu3 wrote:

Ahlana wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

It is double SC day you go down to your store to get sc cards (to pay for your sub..yes sont lose a little money but it your falut doing double sc days)

Only thing I see is your trying to save your own face due to 50% reabte thing. This is an error on your part not customer.

Please rethink this.

So on one hand you say the Double/Triple SC and Rebates are indeed mistakes when it comes to Subs, but then turn around and say that they shouldn't take SC Subs away? /boggle

I guess they could stop giving Double/Triple SC or Rebate days... but I would wager more customers utilize those days than those that use SC Subs.

Pretty simple solution is to remove the 2x/3x SC sales (even they didnt hurt acc. to Smed), and do marketplace sales at one-half/one-third price of todays special sales days which simply exclude subscriptions.

Taaadaaa, you can have both, extreme cheap item sales and subscription payed by SC.

And as SC can also be bought without CC those that wont give CC data to SOE again are also happy.

Why bother though? $15 SC cards are also Sub cards... so it doesn't prevent people who do not want to use a CC from subbing.

The Walmart cards give 1 month sub and 500 SC if they so choose. And the week grace period SOE is offering will allow people to off load stock piled SC on subs.

Seems like the problem is fixed /shrug

Not saying your solution is not a valid one, it looks like it would work just fine. I am just saying there is no reason for people to complain anymore, they can indeed offload their current SC stockpile and just use the Cards to sub from now on instead. SOE doesn't lose the sub money due to Double and Triple SC.. and people can still play without using a CC in the future. seems win/win to me

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Old 06-09-2012, 11:38 AM   #267
Cherri
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Pakhet wrote:

Fact: Nearly every MMO requires a $14.99 a month sub for premium membership.

Fact: No other game offers yearly memberships for $15 like this one did during the triple/rebate.

Fact: NO game can survive with such CHEAP subscriptions.

Fact: People were still playing this when it was $14.99 a month, no F2P

Fact : Other upcomming games are offering F2P with no restrictions.

Fact : Upcomming MMOs are a once off payment for buying the game then no monthly sub.

Fact : Players probably still paid the monthly sub for this game because at the time there wasnt much competition.

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Old 06-09-2012, 11:42 AM   #268
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Well option for non-recurring sub shows for me but will not purchase....hangs on processing purchase....my sub ends mid July ....if I am not able to get the non-recurring during the week it is available then I will be saying ADIOS forever....Tried 4-5 times via in-game market place and it hangs every stinking time...since the option no longer exists via web seems I am outta luck....been a fun run though....just sad to see my characters go sooner than anticipated =o)

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Old 06-09-2012, 11:47 AM   #269
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Pakhet wrote:

Fact: Nearly every MMO requires a $14.99 a month sub for premium membership.

Fact: No other game offers yearly memberships for $15 like this one did during the triple/rebate.

Fact: NO game can survive with such CHEAP subscriptions.

Fact: People were still playing this when it was $14.99 a month, no F2P

Fact : Other upcomming games are offering F2P with no restrictions.

Fact : Upcomming MMOs are a once off payment for buying the game then no monthly sub.

Fact : Players probably still paid the monthly sub for this game because at the time there wasnt much competition.

Well you can't say "Fact" and then probably right after it.. that would make it not a fact.

I mean it isn't a fact anyways as there is TONS of competition on the MMO market.

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Old 06-09-2012, 11:51 AM   #270
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Ashlanne wrote:

We are constantly working to test new products and offers in our marketplaces and will periodically remove and add items as we evolve our commerce.

We encourage customers to check in regularly to see what's new as we will be implementing more and more changes and tests moving forward.

I understand trying out new things but do you really thing people have huge balances so they buy every new armor set or 1000"s of potions or whatever else is on the marketplace?  IMO the test was lets see how much coin we can get and close the door...

well i sure hope you come out with a limited edition mount that runs 200% and flies 400% for 24,000 SC or something so i can blow my balance or it will be sitting there for a long while.

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