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Old 04-26-2012, 07:19 PM   #1
Meirril

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The Book of Bound Mithril was a quest item for the new Brewday quest. In it is a story where Brell gets Mithanial Marr to assist him in subduing primordial elementals to make Norrath safe enough to deposite the first races. This takes place after the Dragons have defeated the Behemoths but before any of the races have been placed.

Also it firmly states that there are behemoths, elementals and forests on Norrath at this time as well as rich deposits of minerals and metals in underground caves that drew Brell here in the first place.

The book ends with Mithanial beating down all the elementals and Brell trapping them in cages forged of opposed elements by Varig Ro.

Now this brings up several questions in my mind (aka, disbelief). Wern't the Marr twins born after Norrath was populated? The Twins didn't claim a realm of influence until after they spent time with Tunare's children (the elves) in Tunaria. That is when Mithanial took on the aspects of Valor, Honor and became the Truthbringer. In the book he is refered to as "Lord of Valor" and other similar titles.

Also didn't the underfoot spill into Norrath and create many of the mineral deposits like the Everhot Ore found under Kaladim?

I was also under the impression that Tunare created the plants when she created elves, fairies and most of the animals on Norrath? I could be wrong about that one.

Anyone else find the story less than credible?

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Old 04-26-2012, 07:28 PM   #2
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It's possible, lore can get muddied by changing writers.

That, or the gods of norrath were never as important as they would want mortals to believe.

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Old 04-26-2012, 09:14 PM   #3
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The Marr Twins, Rodcet Nife, and Bertoxxulous were all the last four majors deities to arrive on Norrath, far long after many of the ages of Norrath's races had already gone by. There's no way he could have assisted Brell with depositing the first races on Norrath.

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Old 04-27-2012, 02:08 AM   #4
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well that's debatable. we know that Mithaniel and Erollisi didn't chose 'aspects' until spending time with the Elves...but that doesn't mean that they weren't around before. just becuse the book refers to him as the 'Lord of Valor' doesn't mean that Mithaniel didn't do those things as a god/godling before he took on the mantle of 'Valor'. and just becuase he didn't 'officially' come to norrath till much later didn't mean he wasn't involved in this at Brell's request. For all we know Mithaniel Marr during this time was actually in the plane of water with his father and sister, and helped Brell 'unofficially'.

Could have been Brell just giving credit where it was due, rather then leaving it as Brell and an unknown but strong young God did it...he went ahead and named Mithaniel, since he was known by then as the Truthbringer. heck you could even say that he allowed them to know who helepd him to boost mithaniel's followers/strengthen his ally.

If you think of the mithaniel described in there as like 'young adult/teenage' God Mith Marr....before he began his career as 'the Lord of Valor' it's much more plausible.

I don't think Tunare created all animal and plant life...but I think most of her results in that aspect were fosterig it's Growth more then it's creation...she may have created specific races/animals/plants(Unicorns/Bloom of Growth/elves/fae/Sifaye/Treants) but not all grasses/flowers/trees/bushes.

the only Underfoot spillage I'm familiar with is when Al'Kabor's assistant blew open the Vault door in the Hole and unleashed an elemental horde.

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Old 04-27-2012, 12:36 PM   #5
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"As the dust settled, the last of the gods came to Norrath, Mithanial Marr, god of Valor, and Erollisi Marr, goddess of love, created the Barbarians, a hardy race who settled the cold and rugged northlands, near the ruins of the Giant empire." - A Brief History Of Norrath.

Remember, this is the defining peice of lore that got everybody started when the game was first developed. It mentions when other gods around the cosmos first noticed that Norrath existed, and how when they did, they came and started getting right to work. Yeah, there were a couple gods who chose a wait and see attitude, such as Innoruuk, but his presence was known among everyone else. It seems pretty clear to me that the Marr Twins didn't know about Norrath's existence until they were the last ones.

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Old 04-27-2012, 06:50 PM   #6
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I suspect this is our old frenemy, the Unreliable Narrator, dropping by again to eat our cookies and drop an upper-decker in the half-bath.  I'm at the point where the more recent the provenance of the book, the less I trust it.

On the other hand...maybe we're getting subtle hints about something?  The Book of Bound Mithril...Mayong, Anashti'Sul, and undeath...the botched Chronoportal in Skyshrine...?

Zebuxoruk knew the timeline would fray...is that what this lore is telling us?

...or is it just telling us they don't really care anymore?

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Old 04-28-2012, 06:19 AM   #7
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Too many hats to wear.  Not enough time to focus on lore exclusively.  Too much lore written by too many people over too many games and too long a time.   Lore not cross-referenced or coordinated or plotted out.  Make it up as we go along, rewrite off the cuff when contradictions are found.

I stopped trying to find consistency in the lore a long while back.  Its a Gordian Knot anymore.

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Old 04-30-2012, 03:02 PM   #8
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Cusashorn wrote:

"As the dust settled, the last of the gods came to Norrath. Mithaniel Marr, god of Valor, and Erollisi Marr, goddess of love, created the Barbarians, a hardy race who settled the cold and rugged northlands, near the ruins of the Giant empire." - A Brief History Of Norrath.

Just correcting a bit of punctuation, which can make a whole lot of difference.  I have thought that the separation between those two sentences were rather curious.  It was almost as if Mithaniel and Erollisi were not specifically being listed as "the last of the gods", but simply inferred.   But what about Rodcet Nife and Bertoxxulous?

Contradictions and points of view abound within history and lore.

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Old 04-30-2012, 05:48 PM   #9
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A real question would be who the heck wrote this book?

If it was Brell, then why refer to himself in the 3rd person? Probably not Brell.

If it was his worshipers, why make up a story involving Mithanial Marr and Varig Ro? Are we saying Brell isn't strong enough to beat up elementals? Are we saying that Brell isn't the master craftsmen? Why mention two of Brell's often time accomplices?

Was this the work of some Brell worshiper trying to gain favor with the followers of Mithanial Marr and Varig Ro? Who follows Varig Ro anyways? Smiths from Freeport?

Maybe this is a plot carried out by the Circle of Unseen Hands hundreds of years ago to raise the status of Varig Ro to the same prominence as Mithanial Marr and Brell by creating this tome and burying it amongst the remains of some of Brell's high priests?

Maybe it is part of a secret Roklikk plot to diminish the greatness of Brell by making him look weak and stupid so that he looses favor among the Army of Serillus?

Seriously, who wrote this book?

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Old 04-30-2012, 08:38 PM   #10
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Ah!  Those are excellent questions, Meirril!

I hope that we are able to explore them in the future, as is intended.  There's definitely more to the story than what has been presented at this time!

~Kaitheel

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Old 05-01-2012, 08:43 PM   #11
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Kaitheel wrote:

Cusashorn wrote:

"As the dust settled, the last of the gods came to Norrath. Mithaniel Marr, god of Valor, and Erollisi Marr, goddess of love, created the Barbarians, a hardy race who settled the cold and rugged northlands, near the ruins of the Giant empire." - A Brief History Of Norrath.

Just correcting a bit of punctuation, which can make a whole lot of difference.  I have thought that the separation between those two sentences were rather curious.  It was almost as if Mithaniel and Erollisi were not specifically being listed as "the last of the gods", but simply inferred.   But what about Rodcet Nife and Bertoxxulous?

Contradictions and points of view abound within history and lore.

~Kaitheel

Ok, so it was a period and not a comma... That said though, Bertoxxulous and Rodcet Nife are never mentioned in the origin story... which I always found a little unusual, but it also makes better sense to me when I look back on it in retrospec with what we learn about both deities here in EQ2. (Basicly, they did nothing that made them worthy of being noted.)

This is suppose to be a universal piece of lore that isn't being told from anyone's point of view, so I really don't see how it can be a contradiction unless something new comes along to intentionally retcon it.

At any rate, I still believe it to be evidence that the Marr Twins were among the very last to know about Norrath's existence, long after many races had already experienced their own empires, and that Mithanial couldn't have been involved with helping Brell make the planet inhabitable.

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Old 05-11-2012, 11:06 AM   #12
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Kaitheel wrote:

Cusashorn wrote:

"As the dust settled, the last of the gods came to Norrath. Mithaniel Marr, god of Valor, and Erollisi Marr, goddess of love, created the Barbarians, a hardy race who settled the cold and rugged northlands, near the ruins of the Giant empire." - A Brief History Of Norrath.

Just correcting a bit of punctuation, which can make a whole lot of difference.  I have thought that the separation between those two sentences were rather curious.  It was almost as if Mithaniel and Erollisi were not specifically being listed as "the last of the gods", but simply inferred.   But what about Rodcet Nife and Bertoxxulous?

Contradictions and points of view abound within history and lore.

~Kaitheel

Well at the very least it seems that mithaniel helped brell. perhaps referring to someone as a god means they have a chosen aspect (and power over it) and someone who is created/born/acendend to become a god is simply reffered to as an immortal until they choose an aspect.

so putting it that way mithaniel could have come to norrath earlier with little to no mortal knowlege of him being there since he wasn't offically a god (or all records mortal or written being destoryed)

with the book of bound mithril being created by a mortal by direct dictation from brell or his avatar(after mithaniel chose an aspect) so that they would be aware of mithaniel's help.

the part that infers mithaniel and erollisi arrived last may be reffering to them taking aspects and arriving as gods and not immortals without aspects.

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Old 05-12-2012, 07:57 PM   #13
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General_Info wrote:

Kaitheel wrote:

Cusashorn wrote:

"As the dust settled, the last of the gods came to Norrath. Mithaniel Marr, god of Valor, and Erollisi Marr, goddess of love, created the Barbarians, a hardy race who settled the cold and rugged northlands, near the ruins of the Giant empire." - A Brief History Of Norrath.

Just correcting a bit of punctuation, which can make a whole lot of difference.  I have thought that the separation between those two sentences were rather curious.  It was almost as if Mithaniel and Erollisi were not specifically being listed as "the last of the gods", but simply inferred.   But what about Rodcet Nife and Bertoxxulous?

Contradictions and points of view abound within history and lore.

~Kaitheel

Well at the very least it seems that mithaniel helped brell. perhaps referring to someone as a god means they have a chosen aspect (and power over it) and someone who is created/born/acendend to become a god is simply reffered to as an immortal until they choose an aspect.

so putting it that way mithaniel could have come to norrath earlier with little to no mortal knowlege of him being there since he wasn't offically a god (or all records mortal or written being destoryed)

with the book of bound mithril being created by a mortal by direct dictation from brell or his avatar(after mithaniel chose an aspect) so that they would be aware of mithaniel's help.

the part that infers mithaniel and erollisi arrived last may be reffering to them taking aspects and arriving as gods and not immortals without aspects.

Zebobrox (sp?) is a god. Or was a god. He was born mortal, studied under Aeyone Ro and discovered a method to make himself a god. He was a god without worshipers, a plane or a sphere of influence but he was acknowledged as a GOD.

There are near-god like beings in Norrath, they are collectively known as "spirits". Very powerful, unaging, they have worshipers and god-like powers. They arn't gods. Lesser gods are more powerful and influential. Zeb was acknowledged to be beyond them.

Mithanial and Erollisi were born gods, from their father Terru Marr. (note: no mother) Unlike other gods, they wern't given a portion of their father's sphere of influence to rule over but found their own. But from the moment of birth they were gods. As gods, they are unique in this aspect. Most gods are 'born' into their sphere of influence, the twins are the only ones that had a choice.

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Old 05-30-2012, 06:35 AM   #14
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What I want to know then is, If the Marr twins were able to choose a sphere, then were those spheres left empty by one of the 4 gods killed by Theer?

And wasn't Zeb also considered a God of Knowledge and Learning at some point? I thought I read that somewhere in either game...

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Old 05-30-2012, 11:24 AM   #15
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

And wasn't Zeb also considered a God of Knowledge and Learning at some point? I thought I read that somewhere in either game...

While this doesn't fall under EQ2's timeline, I have to say I enjoyed progressing through the EQ1 expansion Seeds of Destruction because Zebuxoruk had a terrific story to tell and the Void was ever-changing. When I entered the original Void A, it made me think "maybe this is their play on what-if EQ2's future happened". I'm not sure what he was a god of, if anything... it may very well be knowledge, he seemed to be very insightful of the past, present and future. Anyways, here's what he had to say in SoD: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wik..._About_All_This (for those extra curious, here's a screenie of the first time I zoned into the Void... that dragon? It's a dead Veeshan. o.O)

*stops derailing now*

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