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Old 07-29-2010, 12:15 AM   #1351
bks6721

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Apparently someone high up decided that following is better than leading.  I remember the days when EQ was considered the BEST mmo.  Why would the best mmo need to follow the path of failing games that where never that great to begin with?  I'd prefer to play a LEADING mmo.  When gaming store employees do not recognize the name of Everquest there is a HUGE marketing problem.  That isn't solved by going to a F2P/RMT model. 

It's like putting a stripper pole on the pulpit of your church.. sure it will draw some new people in with a dollar in their hand but your long time congregation will abandon you.

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Old 07-29-2010, 12:20 AM   #1352
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SmokeJumper wrote:

That's great news that many of you are finding the Extended items as "palatable" for regular servers.

We'll still be running the Extended service though, because the current list of features is not necessarily all that we want to try in that environment. There's no guarantees that all subscription players will enjoy or tolerate the future changes we might make in that environment.

But as I said before, this is Alpha. We're listening and discussing what we hear. That fact that Extended morphs occasionally should not be a surprise.

This - right here - is probably the closest we will get to an honest statement from SOE about this issue.  Because this says it all.  Because Smoke just made everything crystal clear, if you just do a little bit of reading between the lines and apply what is well known about SOE's modus operandi.

Let me translate.

We don't care about EQ2 - as it exists now.  We have squeezed just about all of the money out of that we can.  But the IP is still valuable.  People are still nostalgic about EQ and even those who never played the game recognize the name. 

Free Realms has been a big success for us - we need to make an EQ version of Free Realms, albeit not quite so kid-friendly.  After all, we want some access to credit cards! 

We *could* just announce that we are changing the game overnight - everyone could log in tomorrow and find themselves forced to choose one of eight iconic EQ classes.  Its been done before - by us, teehee! - but that did generate a lot of bad press.  So.... all those pesky SWG players kept asking for pre-NGE servers.  Let's do that here!  We will leave the original servers alone - really, really, really alone - and create our new EQ2 Realms moneymachine unimpeded by veterans (or, as I like to call them, suckers).  They can play in their own little world, dwindling everyday until finally we can turn off the lights on those creaky old servers and be done with them.  No one can say we forced them to accept EQ2 Realms!  And maybe, just maybe, a few of them (let's call them supersuckers) will be so desparate to keep playing EQ2 - in whatever form it appears - that they will actually pay us - yes PAY us - to play with less than they have now.

I think Smoke is in for a long, bright future with SOE!

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Old 07-29-2010, 12:21 AM   #1353
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screenid wrote:

Suggestion on how to do this on Live

-All servers are FTP with the Bronze-Silver-Gold-Plat access levels (allowing the new players to filter into all servers)

-Two RMT rule sets

- RMT restricted to mirror current Fluff on Station Market place..with the FTP related unlockable things (races- membership lvl)

                 RMT restricted servers cannot sell stat Items ...exception being Mounts

-RMT open servers - Free for all for SOE to sell what ever they want

================================

IMPORTANT... All your current LIVE ACTIVE PLAYER BASE in good standing...are granted Legacy status

-Legacy status grants us full access to everything we have purchased...w/o a monthly fee or restrictions.   When the new expansion is released ..we have to take up gold status or better (paying the monthly fee) to access the new content.

=================================

Give all your Vet Players the option to choose what RMT server rule set they wish to play on ...and allow a 1 time transfer.

Hmm....so how do you plan to deal with the massive lag that's going to be the result of the huge influx of f2p people onto current servers?? The server's would need huge upgrades.

Sure we need more people on a lot of the current servers, but don't overlook the effects of opening the floodgates.

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Old 07-29-2010, 12:25 AM   #1354
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Really soe a project? a experiment ? wouldn't it have been wiser to try this on your lowest subbed game 'Vanguard" the game you left to rot for the past 2 year's!

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Old 07-29-2010, 12:32 AM   #1355
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I've done F2P and I'm going through a F2P conversion in LOTRO as a lifetime member.

I can say that the only advantage to F2P for an existing subscriber is the renewed population. Keeping them as split servers defeats that objective.

Therefore, there is negligable benefit to existing subscribers in this current implementation of EQX. And as many have posited, the affect is likely to be negative.

I understand that the strong opposition to RMT in the past has led to this implementation. But, I think it's a FAIL unless there is a SIGNIFICANT benefit to play on the EQ2 Live service matched with a unified marketing approach to encourage life cycle transition between EQ2X and EQ2L.

And I'm not seeing it.

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Old 07-29-2010, 12:36 AM   #1356
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[email protected] wrote:

After pouring over the many posts on this topic I am truly at a loss for words. For the past 4 years I have loved this game. EQ2 has out lasted 2 girlfriends, 3apartments, 2 old Ford Rangers, 2 jobs, and so many life changes for me that I could go on forever. I remember my Uncle giving me his old gaming rig and saying "Here kid your going to need this" when I despretly needed something to distract me from the bars I had grown accustom to. I love this game. It has been with me and a part of me for so long now I can only imagine how thoses of you who played EQ1 and EQ2 feel. Today I found this bit of bad news and I must say I feel like I am being betrayed by an old friend. I understand SOEs need for profits and I know it is a business and I know things change but today I just don’t know where this is headed but my gut tells me it’s the end of an area. My gut tells me this is going to go bad and go bad fast and im not sure if I will be around to see something I love and enjoy stripped and distroyed by the slow death that is sure to come as this monstroisity sucks away the new player base from the servers, guilds, and game we all love. So that is how I feel, and I needed to let you know.

So what to say now… I am not sure. It seems to me you guys and gals are going to march on with this poorly though out business plan no matter what the masses say and I guess you have a right to do that. I guess all I can do at this point is offer up some suggestions. Unfortunatly most of those I will have to keep to myself for fear of being kicked or censored but here it goes…

  1. ADVERTISING! No one knows this game exists. You hear it on this fourm all the time and I’ll never forget the 16 year old kid at Gamestops face when I placed an order for the collector’s edidtion of this last expansion. Puzzled he asked me if anyone even plays EQ2 while the kid next to him didn’t even know what it was.
  2. You want more subscriptions? Why not make a free to play option to level 20/30? Get ‘em hooked, then kick in the fees and charges? This P2P is going to smack these new guys in the face the moment they logg in and then what? They will quit that’s what! Make the free to play on all servers across the board then ooo I don’t know ACTUALLY ADVERTISE IT!!
  3. Maby if you guys could figure out a system that would actually encourage and reward older veterian players to come out and help some of these new guys get their feet wet we would see a new player population that would stick around ooo and ADVERTISE IT!!
  4. So your dead set on this micro transaction crap and I guess I will just have to find a way to deal with it or move on to another MMO. You may be wrong about about this business plan but you are 100% right about one thing. I don’t want this junk on my server! If you must do this keep it over there and we can all watch this beautiful game go down the crapper as old servers dwindle and die and this new beast fills up with WOW rejects.

I know where this is going, and it looks like most of your player base does as well. It is apparent where most of your time will be spent in the near future. We on the live servers will get left behind. You can tell me not to worry and pat me on the head and say it’s going to work out fine but I know from watching you post in this vary forum! I saw how many red name responces that prowler mount got compaired to the massive ninja nerf you dished out to mystics which I am pretty sure you guys have yet to even adknowledge. When that prowler mount hit the forum it looked as if every develpoer was out answering and responding to questions. Where is that kind of response to the things that really matter? Fighter balance, ninja nerfs, gear changes, and nothing from you guys. This is a grim forcast of the future espically if this thing is successful.

I hate to be so "dramatic" but I love this game. But like I said before I don’t know if I am going to stick around to watch you put the final nail in its coffin…

~Hessin~

Bravo. *claps*

You know why I feel so betrayed? Because this game has been there through my divorce, my re-marriage, and my mothers death. When I was in a car accident in 2004 and I couldnt walk for six months, and then had to do over a year of physiotherapy, THIS was my entertainment. This game is like an very old friend to me.

And the devs aren't listening and don't seem to care about their vets. We have repeatedly asked whats being offered vets in return and gotten nothing in reply.

Now, after all the years, all the times I've gone to this games defense, all the arguments I've had with people, now they're screwing us all. Gee.. how nice. After everything, they should be giving me a free sub. But no, instead, it goes f2p and screws us all.

How about a little loyalty to your vets, huh?

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Old 07-29-2010, 12:39 AM   #1357
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jamzez wrote:

Really soe a project? a experiment ? wouldn't it have been wiser to try this on your lowest subbed game 'Vanguard" the game you left to rot for the past 2 year's!

I might actually go back to vangaurd if they did that, as I sure aint paying to play it.  This experiment is in full force and headed its way all you got to do is read smokes commenns about how palitable it was for all us. 

In other words all our servers are going that way before to long.  You just dont experiment with that kind of money give me a break.

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Old 07-29-2010, 12:40 AM   #1358
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[email protected] wrote:

No, that's not the plan, or at least its not my plan. My plan is to pay for optionals, and not have to pay a subscription if i don't have the money this month. I don't care how they do it just give me the ability to not fall behind without a subscription, yes what i suggested is more lucrative to Sony, thats because i want to see it implemented. But anyway im not here to argue with you, i gave my feedback, I just would be appreciate it if i could get some feedback that my feedback has been be jotted down to be reviewed

I don't want to come over as insulting or whatever, but seriously: You know that can can perfectly legal and without any blah pay 15 $ for a month and cancel whenever you want under the current sub model? If your financial planning is so badly on a month by month timeframe that you don't have an idea if you have the money for the next month, when the current month sub is about to run out, what makes you think you would do better on a model that has even more allure to spend money out of your wallet that you really shouldn't spend on a game?

RMT models are tailored towards people who have money to spend, not people who just scrape by. Would that fit for you? You don't want to fall behind if you don't pay every month? People fall behind if they don't play - because they don't play not because they don't pay!, be it an RMT or a sub game.  And if you don't have the money today, why do you think you will have it next month, but not the month after that? Maybe? Or is your idea that you can play a F2P because other people with big wallets buy enough SC to support the F2P model? In that case please take a closer look at what you get with F2P and Silver Membership. It's not much but if it's all you want, go for it. Just don't try and sell vet players this model of paying 10-15 $ for access to one instance!  Most of us are not the ones who want it.

I'm not following you, I just don't get the mindset. I accept your opinion, but your logic eludes me. Completely.

Now to make it clear: I don't mind trying out this Model. Not at all. But I still think it should be reworked from both ends, to be on par with what other games offer, and to fit in or around the existing game, so that we don't drain the existing servers of new players. Please rework your prices somewhat and/or what your are offering for those prices. Then find a sensitive approach to bind it in the existing system. I don't mind the marketplace or players that buy from it as long as the game doesn't change to a: You have to buy XYZ to be able to do heroics/raids. As long as I can do everything in game without having to buy with SC I'm okay.

Thanks for reading.

Purr~

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Old 07-29-2010, 12:40 AM   #1359
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[email protected] wrote:

I know this model, Smoke, and it's absolutely brilliant... that is, if you can pull it off. 

For the playerbase, the gist of the model is based on a divide and conquer concept, with a twist.  It has almost a flawless success rate (except when they try to rush it or it gets mangled in the translation to another location).  It's the same model many insurance companies and the Government are using to to stop cigarette smoking btw.  They're using your money and your children against you.

First you divide (obviously) and attract new employees/people already on board.  This introduces a new element to the culture you want all the while keeping them away from the influcences of the old culture.  You entrench them (the newbs) to the behaviors you want to change so they only know "that way". 

you then offer modest incentives to the new culture all the while broadcasting throughout the entire old and new employee base.  Broadcasting is a key component here, it must stay positive from a broadcasting point all the while keeping the old employee base away from inputing comments to the new employee base (hence the separate servers and boards).

This queres the interest of some in the old employee base and creates "doubt" (doubt is key).  You continue to build on the "grass is greener" concept.  (you can see the start of this with the plat membership of 10 toon slot compaired to the current 7 for only $30 more).

Slowly (slowly is the key word) you increase the rewards and lessen the broadcasting (dim the lights on the old employee base) this REALLY gets them talking because now they are wondering  "what's going on?"  It creates fasination to cause more people to "check it out". 

Here's were the twist kicks in, peer pressure.  People talk, more importantly, "friends" talk.  The model uses the loyalies people have with each other and at this point, it's completely employee driven.

You keep increasing the rewards (modestly) and gaining the interest, all the while telling the old employee base, "I'm sorry, you told us you didn't want to be part of this."  You exclude them, which really facinates them.  Until you get the "Hey, they have it better, I want better too".  Which you reply, "Sorry, this is only for NEW model employees" if you want it you have to come "on board".  And Viola... rinse and repeat until you have everyone but the die hards, the die-hards that refuse to commit get removed".  "Sorry we're closing this server, there's no employee interest playing like this anymore".

It's easier to change the landscape with a tidal wave, then drops of water.

The Key here is "if" they are going to release new accounts to the old servers or "flip the switch giving them access to everything" on the current server so they don't have to leave their friends.  My bet is they will keep them on the current server .

This is how they are going to get micro-transactions and F2P into the entire playerbase without the playerbase revoiting... the playerbase with scream for it.  What's going to make or break it is how much response they get from new players joining the free to play.  I bet we see a HUGE advertising push.

I wanted to push this up to where folks would be seeing it again.  Especially in light of the most recent "acknowledgements" from Smokejumper about how folks appear to be willing to tolerate having these features brought to the live servers.  It is working!

While I am not one to spout gloom or doom, or that the sky is falling, I am old enough and wise enough to see the writing on the wall. And I am for sure smart enough to see the direction for this game, which I have so enjoyed, is going down a path I choose not to follow.

Back when LoN was just showing up there were posts of a slippery slope.  Then SC made it's surprise entrance and there were posts about a slipperly slope.

Well, welcome to the landslide! SMILEY

I have gamed long enough to see the trends, and I don't believe there is anyone on these forums, or any other game forum, that can't admit this is the future of gaming. 

People want things fast and easy and are willing to pay for it.  SoE would be a poorly run business to not capitalize on it. 

And do remember.  SoE really does not care about any of us. Humans care about people they know. Businesses say they care. What business does not?   We are, in the big picture, just faceless wallets to be opened.  It isn't personal.....it is business.

I have had the pleasure of meeting SoE employees and they are fine folks..just like you and me.  I harbor no ill will towards any of them. They are, after all, simply trying to pay their bills like the rest of us.

But they will have to do it without my coin.   My account expires tomorrow and it is already cancelled. Regretfully, I step away to find entertainment in other venues.

Remember..it is a game.  Now y'all have fun!

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:01 AM   #1360
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Amnerys wrote:

This quote from SmokeJumper is so far buried that I just wanted to make sure people are seeing it still:

SmokeJumper wrote:

This is an experiment. We are currently at the Alpha stage of the new service. I fully expect the model to morph as we get feedback.

Alpha is all about feedback and adjustments. We'd love for you all, both those in favor of the new server and those against it, to spend a little time trying out the Alpha and letting us know what you think is good and bad, and whatever feedback you have on how it functions.

Your constructive feedback will help everyone. And while we start working through the Alpha kinks, the best way to make this service the best it can be, for new players and for our veterans alike, is to hear from you, specifically about your experiences on the Extended Alpha server.

As someone who has seen F2P in action, my advice is that you should not have separate servers.  The players will come, and so will the money, but if a whole bunch of new players show up on fresh servers without some "old-timers" there to hold their hands, it's going to slow things down a lot; especially since they'll have to pay their way through portions of the learning process.  That will not reflect well on this game or its owners.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:12 AM   #1361
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Wilin wrote:

I've done F2P and I'm going through a F2P conversion in LOTRO as a lifetime member.

I can say that the only advantage to F2P for an existing subscriber is the renewed population. Keeping them as split servers defeats that objective.

Therefore, there is negligable benefit to existing subscribers in this current implementation of EQX. And as many have posited, the affect is likely to be negative.

I understand that the strong opposition to RMT in the past has led to this implementation. But, I think it's a FAIL unless there is a SIGNIFICANT benefit to play on the EQ2 Live service matched with a unified marketing approach to encourage life cycle transition between EQ2X and EQ2L.

And I'm not seeing it.

This is the issue I see as well. Problem is, SoE is screwed no matter which method they choose:

1) SoE flips the switch and allows F2P on all the Live servers, allowing everybody to purchase items with non-marginal stats on the Market. Veteran hardcore playerbase abandons the game outright in huge droves, and we suddenly have another SWG screw-up on our hands.

2) SoE does EQ2X as currently planned. Players play on the F2P server, but never merge with the actual Live servers because they'd lose out on their characters, would have the buy the latest expansion, etc. Thus, the Live server population continues to slowly dwindle.

I'm just thankful that they didn't choose #1 - the last thing that EQ2 needs (or more accurately, another SoE MMO) is a failure of SWG proportions. But #2 isn't a solution either in the long run, and that's the overall problem.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:14 AM   #1362
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I cant quote, but to the person replying to me a few posts back, when did o say i couldn't afford the subscription? I have two accounts on yearly subscriptions, and another by the month, what i said is i don't want to have a reoccurring fee that i have to pay to play uninterrupted.
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:28 AM   #1363
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SmokeJumper wrote:

That's great news that many of you are finding the Extended items as "palatable" for regular servers.

We'll still be running the Extended service though, because the current list of features is not necessarily all that we want to try in that environment. There's no guarantees that all subscription players will enjoy or tolerate the future changes we might make in that environment.

But as I said before, this is Alpha. We're listening and discussing what we hear. That fact that Extended morphs occasionally should not be a surprise.

im not really sure how this reads to everyone else, but it seems pretty clear that they plan to improve the marketplace quality items above what they currently are, and possibly even higher than current in game items. They here us say that we are more than willing to accept the FTP model as is, but they also know how we feel against a PTP (pay to power) model. It seems like he has just come out and point blank told us that they have future plans to create an environment that we would not enjoy or find "palatable".

I am one that was willing to accept the model as it stands, since you would still be required to sub to have any real chance at playing the content. Sure mastercrafted will get you more than enough for the solo content, but just barely squeek by on the heroic. I cannot imagine running a Cella or any of the Vigilant zones with a MC Tank with expert CAs. Or a healer in the same trying to heal that said tank. Of course SOE knows this already as well, and since all the new people on the new shiny servers will be starting from Level 1, it gives them time to add Legendary or Fabled (or even higher) quality items to the marketplace once the population begins to reach the level cap.

Feel free to correct me if im wrong, obviously i cannot see into the future. All im saying is that you want to keep your options open to the ability to do this in the future. I welcome you to come right out and tell us that this will never happen, since im sure you will be quoted on it later. (PS. im pretty sure how the community views silence)

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:28 AM   #1364
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Just in case anyone missed this-

Rothgar wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Sp while everyone is busy complaining about the XP bar and the color. You should really take a look at the MERCHANT window.

Notice anything different on it? SC 650 (Thats right Station Cash is displayed)

Yes, we've added station cash to this window because of another key feature that you may not have noticed yet. Certain Marketplace items may now appear in a merchant list of it coincides with what the merchant is selling. For example, a horse merchant might also display a couple of marketplace horses (as an example) and you would be able to purchase those items from the merchant rather than having to use the Marketplace window. The SC amount at the bottom of the window makes it easier to see if you have the funds to purchase those items.

*Puts on flame retardant suit*

Link

Rothgar wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I want to know if this will be on all servers or just the EQ2X ones. If all, then I would like to voice my extreme dislike of that idea. The only way I want to see this happen on current servers is if they change their minds and make the current servers integrated with EQ2X.

Yes it will be on all servers.

On that same vein, get rid of the giant SC button, for the love of all that is holy. Talk about bad taste. It isn't hard to find SC or the marketplace as it is now. There is already plenty of in-game advertising for it. Please show some restraint and class here.

I can't make that decision.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:28 AM   #1365
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@Huene

As I said, I don't understand your logic: If you don't want a longer term commitment, don't sub for one. I fail to see where you fare better on a gold membership compared to a monthly sub, and I fail to see how $10+ for an Instance access make you fare better either. *shrug*

edited for spelling and tiredness... it's getting late.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:28 AM   #1366
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 SmokeJumper wrote:

That's great news that many of you are finding the Extended items as "palatable" for regular servers.

I have NO clue how you can twist posts in this thread to come up with that conclusion.  Illogical jumps yet again.Extended ITEMS aren't palatable for regular servers.The Free2Play model IS.

Is that a difficult separation to make?The basic free-2-play model would be just fine on all current servers.  Where people choosing to take that subscription route purchase the account upgrades and access that they want.  Implement that on all servers.

Your EQ2Extended model, keep that as a new server set with the expanded StationCash market place that you have a hard on for.  -THAT- is the sole thing that the majority of the current live players DONT WANT on their servers.

To Recap:Free2Play and Extended ITEMS are two different subjects.Free2Play subscription option would be fine on all current servers.

Extened Items StationCash store is what should make the Extended Servers special and separate.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:31 AM   #1367
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"Yes, we've added station cash to this window because of another key feature that you may not have noticed yet.  Certain Marketplace items may now appear in a merchant list of it coincides with what the merchant is selling.  For example, a horse merchant might also display a couple of marketplace horses (as an example) and you would be able to purchase those items from the merchant rather than having to use the Marketplace window.  The SC amount at the bottom of the window makes it easier to see if you have the funds to purchase those items."

What the %TZ going on. This is going to live servers? What stops you from adding things like armor, pots, and things that are on that other "Extended Server" to live?

You change a UI to benefit FTP and it is will be on live? So in the future if I want a mount I cant quest for it. I just have to buy it right?

If you going to keep this FTP separate then stick to your words!! Keep FTP stuff off live servers period. You want to make a new UI for Ftp then keep it there. My word do you guys not care about any of us at all? Should we quite and you can do things over again?

Never in my life have I seen a company not give a writ about their player base.

/sigh

"Short term profits will benefit you but at what price will you loose you soul"

I give up!!

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:32 AM   #1368
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It's all a business, and I get that. SoE hardly needs our blessing to go forth with the most lucractive plan it can enact,

but...

the way this is being done borders on the absurd in its alienation and slow strangulation of the 'Legacy' servers.

I'm really surprised and saddened by what I'm seeing here, and I honestly hope that some of the other posters are right in guessing that's it's only a matter of time till the F2P shows up on the current servers. If it doesn't, then this is the beginning of attrition without end, because every player lost is one that won't be replaced on the *coughs* 'Legacy' servers.

Bah.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:37 AM   #1369
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[email protected] wrote:

I cant quote, but to the person replying to me a few posts back, when did o say i couldn't afford the subscription? I have two accounts on yearly subscriptions, and another by the month, what i said is i don't want to have a reoccurring fee that i have to pay to play uninterrupted.

So you'd rather spend more money all at once rather than less money over time...did you ever take any economics courses ever?...or even just math?  Can you comprehend the basic concept of the time value of money?

"I have plenty of money but I want to spend it all at once in the hopes that by drastically limiting the amount of content Im allowed to experience I might possibly shave a few nickels off my total subscription fee"*sarcasm*

How is that remotely logical?  Did you just rob a bank and need to get rid of the cash as quickly as possible?  Thats the only scenario I can think of where this becomes a logical desire.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:39 AM   #1370
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Im not surprised by the UI changes and how saturated the game will be with SC and marketplace. With these UI changes (and changes to the merchants) how is that keeping your RMT model off the legacy servers? They have already guaranteed that the content for both server sets will be identical and rolling out at the same time. They will also have to ensure all future content is balanced for the free players so as not to drive them away before thier wallets are empty. As long as EQ2X is still EQ2 and not its own separate entity (which they call it now, but obviously its not, looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, must be a duck) we on the live servers will be effected. You say you want the servers to be separate entities but as long as its the same game, sharing the same developers, how can it possibly be a separate game? The only two things our servers will differ on is the access to the "robust" marketplace and the access to a new playerbase.
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:43 AM   #1371
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[email protected] wrote:

Im not surprised by the UI changes and how saturated the game will be with SC and marketplace. With these UI changes (and changes to the merchants) how is that keeping your RMT model off the legacy servers? They have already guaranteed that the content for both server sets will be identical and rolling out at the same time. They will also have to ensure all future content is balanced for the free players so as not to drive them away before thier wallets are empty. As long as EQ2X is still EQ2 and not its own separate entity (which they call it now, but obviously its not, looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, must be a duck) we on the live servers will be effected. You say you want the servers to be separate entities but as long as its the same game, sharing the same developers, how can it possibly be a separate game? The only two things our servers will differ on is the access to the "robust" marketplace and the access to a new playerbase.

This is because they already planned to force us into a full RMT game. This is their way of telling us.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:47 AM   #1372
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TalisX1 wrote:

It is mostly found 'palatable' because you have threatened us with cutting off the supply of new players. If you would remove that threat most people in this thread would again be against the extended marketplace because the fear of our servers dieing would be greatly diminished.

Put another way you gave us the option between A) quadripileqia and B) death. You then said "Look! Most people want to be quadripileqics!"

Silat

Awesome, and well put.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:52 AM   #1373
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We didnt ask for FULL RMT on live servers. What about the lore of the game? What about the reason to play? Why would you take such a loved game and just bash things in it we didnt ask for.

So not only you gave us FTP but you also turn the live servers into FULL RMT? Thank you again for caring about the people who played the game over all theses years..

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:54 AM   #1374
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@purr Gold is a monthly sub actually but im not here to argue with you and i certainly appreciate your debating style and willingness to accept my request as a request as opposed to arguing with me about it. The whole concept of paying what ive been calling rent for access to the game disgusts me. i know thats the way it's always been done and as such is the norm, but that hasn't made me like the arrangement any more. I really don't think i have the verbal skills to explain why i want the ability to own access to content rather than rent it. I just know that I'd like to see a plan between silver and gold that unlocks all gold features, but doesn't require the monthly commitment. Take it or leave it, thats where i stand. Sleep well and i hope i see more intelligent conversationalists such as yourself in the future.
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:56 AM   #1375
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kalaria wrote:

 SmokeJumper wrote:

That's great news that many of you are finding the Extended items as "palatable" for regular servers.

I have NO clue how you can twist posts in this thread to come up with that conclusion.  Illogical jumps yet again.Extended ITEMS aren't palatable for regular servers.The Free2Play model IS.

Is that a difficult separation to make?The basic free-2-play model would be just fine on all current servers.  Where people choosing to take that subscription route purchase the account upgrades and access that they want.  Implement that on all servers.

Your EQ2Extended model, keep that as a new server set with the expanded StationCash market place that you have a hard on for.  -THAT- is the sole thing that the majority of the current live players DONT WANT on their servers.

To Recap:Free2Play and Extended ITEMS are two different subjects.Free2Play subscription option would be fine on all current servers.

Extened Items StationCash store is what should make the Extended Servers special and separate.

This right here. A FTP plan can be nothing but an unlimited trial with either a level cap or content block. Nowhere in a FTP model does it say a "robust" marketplace is a requirement. Take you little experiment and run with it. I wish you all the best of luck, although i have a feeling of where it will end. But dont remove our free trial from legacy servers and not replace it with something of equal or higher value. An unlimited trial will still generate you a profit by "hooking" those new players with the free content and they will want to upgrade to subscriptions when they reach thier "content block" or they can just continue on with no progress. Thats the option you want players to face, play all you want and be stuck in progression, or "sub up" to reach end game. Thats a successful FTP model.

You still get your pet project, to do with as you see fit, and it gives you even more footing because then you really can separate both entities and not just say it is when we all know one will effect the other.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:59 AM   #1376
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Taldier, its not about the price for me it's about the commitment
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:01 AM   #1377
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[email protected] wrote:

@purr Gold is a monthly sub actually but im not here to argue with you and i certainly appreciate your debating style and willingness to accept my request as a request as opposed to arguing with me about it. The whole concept of paying what ive been calling rent for access to the game disgusts me. i know thats the way it's always been done and as such is the norm, but that hasn't made me like the arrangement any more. I really don't think i have the verbal skills to explain why i want the ability to own access to content rather than rent it. I just know that I'd like to see a plan between silver and gold that unlocks all gold features, but doesn't require the monthly commitment. Take it or leave it, thats where i stand. Sleep well and i hope i see more intelligent conversationalists such as yourself in the future.

I have a strong feeling that alot of the community understands exactly what you are trying to say. The only problem i see with it, is that you are asking for something thats not currently on the table, nor is it a reasonable assumption that SOE will take the suggestion seriously. Your only two options are to remain on the legacy servers with the current subs plan, or move to EQ2X under thier proposed FTP plan. There is no option whatsoever about paying for unlocking content, or one time charges except for the move from bronze to silver.

Its not that people are arguing with you, its that you are arguing a fictional price model.

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Old 07-29-2010, 02:02 AM   #1378
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Huene, congrats on having a unique outlook on all this rigamarole. But explain somthting to me, because I'm lost on your concepts of "renting" and "owning"

My best guess is people paying subs are "renting" and will lose access when they cease to pay their sub? People that will "own" under the FtP model will make their marketplace purchase and "own" what they bought?

Bottom libe, when the FtP player leaves the game they will find out how much of their marketplace purchased virtual badselves they "own"

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Old 07-29-2010, 02:08 AM   #1379
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SmokeJumper wrote:

That's great news that many of you are finding the Extended items as "palatable" for regular servers.

We'll still be running the Extended service though, because the current list of features is not necessarily all that we want to try in that environment. There's no guarantees that all subscription players will enjoy or tolerate the future changes we might make in that environment.

But as I said before, this is Alpha. We're listening and discussing what we hear. That fact that Extended morphs occasionally should not be a surprise.

SJ, your smart enough to realize, it doesn't matter a [Removed for Content] bit what it morphs into, players will tollerate just about anything short of segmentation.

So long as the system is designed that all new players end up on EQ2X, segementation of the environments is unacceptable.

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Old 07-29-2010, 02:10 AM   #1380
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The simpliest explanation of "renting" vs "owning" is this: Renting is a recurring charge Owning is a one time charge Thats it, cut and dry. What Huene is trying to suggest is that SOE implements a pricing structure that allows for one time charges to purchase unlimited access to content, rather than having to constantly pay a recurring sub fee. The problem is that SOE will most likely never allow this, and it doesnt fit into either the current EQ2Live or the new EQ2X models. Its a completely fictional idea that Huene is offering as a suggestion for something new and not feedback on something currently being proposed. As a suggestion of something they want to see it is a very vaild suggestion. It just doesnt pertain to the topic at hand.
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