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Old 07-27-2010, 09:16 PM   #661
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I am still getting my head around this. In the future lets say I have a guild that had only silver support.

We try to do some instance zones. (which drops legendary armor which i cant use. Makes me wonder why I would even do an instance at all )

My group choices woudl be

Swash Brig  Wizard  Warlock Guardian Zerker Templar Inqusitor

In those choices I have no support classes at all. I have no degros for casters (though the swash and brig coudl help but a troub is better for casters) . I have no power regen for healers (plate healer spells take a huge amount of power)

The more I think of it what do you want thoses new people to do doing? What content? or is the goal to solo to 80? which you missing soloing classes to do that.

A main class i find people who start a new mmo play is a pet class. Yet in you martix you dont have the option for that (not unless I buy it)

It just seem to me the class choices need to be re-looked at.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:16 PM   #662
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Amnerys wrote:

As stated earlier...what it means is that there are over 630 posts in this thread, and only one Community Relations Manager (that's me!) and one Producer (SmokeJumper.)

I'm collecting comments and questions right now, but you'll have to please give us some time to get these pulled together and organized to get answers for you guys. At this point I've been here just shy of 8 hours today, and I could easily spend another 8 just working on gathering questions and feedback and answers. I'm doing the best I can. And I still have other work that needs to be done today, too.

Sounds to me like you need a competent assistant. *raises paw*  I work for cream, tuna and the occasional mousie that doesn't pay attention...   

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:17 PM   #663
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I think it is time to go outside, get some fresh air and let them compile things.  Try it, it is that thing outside your door.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:17 PM   #664
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Skilley wrote:

I think we can all agree that Arasir is a dumbas*. Think about it for a second you worthless [Removed for Content]. Turnover + no new players = a population that dwindles into nothing. Adjust your helmet and think about it for one second, rather than acting like everybody else is stupid for realizing the truth.

The questions they were asking were in reference to their CURRENT accounts, which as of this writing, will not change.  I don't know how it will affect anything in the future anymore than you do. 

And for the record, I absolutely understand (and agree) that this will most likely affect the Live servers.  I simply answered their questions as they were asked, in current terms.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:18 PM   #665
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GrunEQ wrote:

I think Gage hit it first and with the responses I'm seeing from Smokejumer I've come to the conclusion that this is smoke and mirror stuff going on so that when they can eventually announce that F2P/P2P will go to live servers, and there will be a sigh of relief.  That this being completly separate, is to stir the waters so we will be begging for it to come to Live and help with keeping up populations.  Then he can say there was a demand for it.

I have to agree with you.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:18 PM   #666
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Like the concept for new games but not in an existing game that has been around 5 years. Making a copy of eq2 and changing the subscription base is only going to kill any new accounts/toons that might have been created on the 14 day trial full content servers. Why would any new person start a toon on a non f2p server from this point on? Play two weeks free with all content and then pay full price when your toon is probably not even high enough to take part in the full content you are paying for or play free and if you like then upgrade to a pay subscription. More than likely anyone who would have started a toon on the full subscription/content server will now start a toon on a F2p server. Hence, a player population that will swiftly decline as old players leave, switch servers with no new accounts, servers will merged until the inevitably end of full subscription base servers. In the end, SOE will be able to charge more for the same content, and for a kicker selling in game items will increase their revenue on an old product. They will save more by being able to just “copy” eq2 and not have to develop or market a new product. I think I’m starting to know what a cow must feel like right before it is milked!
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:19 PM   #667
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[email protected] wrote:

I am still getting my head around this. In the future lets say I have a guild that had only silver support.

We try to do some instance zones. (which drops legendary armor which i cant use. Makes me wonder why I would even do an instance at all )

My group choices woudl be

Swash Brig  Wizard  Warlock Guardian Zerker Templar Inqusitor

In those choices I have no support classes at all. I have no degros for casters (though the swash and brig coudl help but a troub is better for casters) . I have no power regen for healers (plate healer spells take a huge amount of power)

The more I think of it what do you want thoses new people to do doing? What content? or is the goal to solo to 80? which you missing soloing classes to do that.

A main class i find people who start a new mmo play is a pet class. Yet in you martix you dont have the option for that (not unless I buy it)

It just seem to me the class choices need to be re-looked at.

Silly ratonga - SOE does not want you wasting valuable Marketplace time in an instance!

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:19 PM   #668
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My Opinions as a long time player

* I can't see this bringing new players to play with me on Najena. Which upsets me - I don't care how we get new players I just want new players to play with.

* I'd like to see the platinum plan offered to live servers - extra character slots at an affordable rate - Station access just costs too much for those slots

* I would not complain 1 bit if players could transfer from EQ2X to live servers - but realistically why would they move.

* I would have prefered FTP being integrated onto the live servers I don't get why players are so vocal against things that would grow server populations. Of course it would hurt tradeskillers buying items to help level but I don't tradeskill so that doesn't affect me. What does affect me is player numbers I want to play with crowds. Now I feel left out that my server will stay quite while the game booms in popularity.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:21 PM   #669
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I am offering my feedback. That's what you wanted, right? I hope I don't get banned for not being all for this.

This morning my husband told me about this news. Each time he read off a feature for the EQ2ex or whatever you're calling it, I immediately responded with "that's stupid!" I could not believe it. This is not the way to go. The vast majority of your players do not want this. Games go Free to Play when they're ready to die or when the devs stop caring.

If you're worried about earning money, how about trying some actual advertising for the game instead of implementing this nonsense? For pity's sake, WoW has commercials with freaking Mr. T in them. From you guys? You didn't even try to get the Sham-Wow guy. At least that guy can sell things.

It's like you abandoned us for money. You do not listen to your community as much as you should be.

But you tried the Marketplace and found that people love to pay money for silly things. At first I was against it, but then I thought, hey, the money we put in there goes to the devs who make the game that I love to bits. Apparently not, after 35 people were let go. How many were from EQ2?

If you listened to the players, the people who put their hearts into this game, you wouldn't have taken this route. If you had asked us what we thought perhaps you would have taken a better path instead of "oh hay, let's get more money out of these people."

The Marketplace items you're putting up are pretty much just cheat items. Wand of Devestation? Really? That's completely taking out the challenge of a difficult mob. Perhaps a mob that requires a group to kill. Which means you're killing a potential group. Forget skill, all you need to do is mash a button and life is easy. Lame. Lame. Lame.

The classes you picked for the bronze doofs are going to be the only ones you focus on dev wise. I play a Warlock, but I don't want my other friends who didn't pick one of the magic 8 classes to fall the wayside.

New players aren't going to bother with Legacy servers anymore. You're effectively going to kill us like this. Subscriptions will go down, groups will be harder to find, and you'll have to merge a majority of the servers due to low pop.

All in all, I think this is a horrible idea.

This is my feedback. I do not expect it to be listened to but at least others who feel the same way will know they're definitely not alone.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:25 PM   #670
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I 'm a newbie,

I'm still here... I'd be happy for you all to play with me SMILEY

But seriuosly, this is happening everywhere. I'm sure the implementation could be no worse then the Lotro one.. I mean they are totally breaking the lore and look and feel of Lotro to implement their F2P.

I would have rather seen F2P on the live servers, mainly because it does bring more activity to a game, but what is offered in stores can "break" it for me.

I am happy to keep paying the Sub, though in Aus its about $20 a month and I would love to see that lowered... But where I think SOE could have done better is by helping new people actually BUY this game.

One thing that Turbine did though was work out what the current subscribers would get before they announced the F2P move.. sort of dampen the impact ...

So If SOE can answer the question that keeps popping up , that might help with the delivery to current playerbase..

Some suggestions for that would be:

  • a token allocation of Station Cash per month of continuous subscription until release.
  • An extra character slot on release of F2P
  • More shared storage on release
  • Reduction of Subs on Eq2 servers to $9.98 a month if you pay 3 or 6 monthly.
  • An extra pack of LON per month of subs until release ( I never get loot cards SMILEY )

On a side note:

At the moment I am having all sorts of trouble trying to work out how my mate can actually join me.  i.e. I got the complete collection box ( from friends , thanks) and played for a month, then pay my sub..  then bought the SF upgrade, to easy.

But.... I sent my mate the trial key but here in Melboure we can't find the game anywhere... the complete collection is sold out everywhere online, and there doesn't seem to be a clear "Path to Play" ... so maybe SOE can work on the communication there before trying to sell "Free to Play" SMILEY

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:28 PM   #671
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

The vast majority of your players do not want this.

Stop with the hyperbole.  The vast majority of players don't care.  The vocal minority do not want this.  Don't kid yourself that it's anything more than that.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:34 PM   #672
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The majority of the feedback is negative here, isn't it? As it is on EQ2Flames and other EQ2 blogs and sites. That's why they're banning people here.

How the heck do you figure they're the minority?

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:35 PM   #673
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

Excellent idea.  Thank you for proceeding in this direction, as it is obvious changes must be made to keep EQ2 viable.  You've found a great solution that does not negatively affect any of the current users, but does allow for the game to expand to an entirely new playerbase that would never have played EQ2 without it.

And since you allow copy transfers to the new world, those who do want to participate, can.  (I wonder if those of us on Bazaar are included in the copy ability.. ?)

Some aren't happy.. color me shocked.  For the health of the game, it's brilliant. 

bought characters should NEVER be allowed any sort of transfer.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:36 PM   #674
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TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:

Here's the thing; an endgame item takes 24 people weeks to get the strat to kill the mob nailed down, and then often several months of repeatedly killing it to farm the item. As a rough calculation, every bit of *good* raid fabled loot, once you filter out the junk drops, is about 100 man-hours of effort, if not more. If that same item is available for $5, you value that effort at an incredibly insulting 5 cents an hour.

(snip)

I'm of course aware that RMT and legal or illegal trading of items has been going on for a long time... (snip) The idea of money buying an advantage in a game goes against the very concept of a game itself: it's no different to a chess player paying $500 for a second Queen, or a football team getting a free touchdown for $10k.

(snip) ... and the core issue the devs will need to face is whether selling these items results in a viable revenue stream, or just kills the game server. I strongly suspect the latter, and the fact this is getting rolled out on separate servers suggests the devs also see this as a huge gamble.

(snip)

Approximately the same time calculation is also true of master craftsmen, who have labored to earn faction and learn recipes, acquire rare harvests, and create items. It is not uncommon for multiple months to be spent in leveling, factioning, harvesting, etc. prior to doing the final combine of any T9 MC item.

The reasons and playstyles differ, but the amount of time and effort put in for the differing goals is roughly equivalent. These are hours of subscription time that SOE is currently earning.

These are players that have invested enough time into Norrath to have grown attached to the community and / or to the lore and lands, etc, and are inclined to stay -- even if it means paying to continue playing.

Provided, that is, that their efforts do not get de-valued by having replacement options for RMT's.

[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

Enna wrote:

Not much point in actually playing the game if everything worth having can be bought, is there?

  • Level 90 toon on LiveGamer ready to go: $100
  • 100 plat to pad your pockets: $8
  • Nifty pack of veteran goodies because they are heirloom: $15
Spending the weekend laughing your butt off playing a new game with friends . . . priceless
So yes Virginia there are a lot of intangible things you can get in the game you simply cant buy.
Yes, I play on Bazaar, yes I leveled my toons from scratch, no I dont care if people buy stuff to enjoy the game.

(emphasis mine)

Probably nobody who has chosen to play on an exchange server would find the highlighted attitude annoying... else they'd not be playing on an exchange server.

The "buy stuff and then look down your nose at folks who spent hours or days or weeks or months in-game to earn equal or lesser gear" routine is a common side-effect of such purchases as are described in the above quotation.

I chose *not* to play on Bazaar, because I find that level of immaturity to be unwelcome.

This is why most people that I know are strongly opposed to RMT's for in-game stat items... the ubiquitious immaturity and rudeness of the buyers.

To borrow a popular format...

  • Monthly subscription - $15
  • Friends made while cooperating together to achieve in-game goals - no additional charge
  • Sense of accomplishment from achieving in-game goals - no additional charge

Memories made over several years in Norrath - priceless.

Please compare that several year's worth of memories to only one weekend's worth, and consider which is the greater win.

Are RMT's a growing trend? Yes.

Are RMT's a trend that encourages people to keep playing the same game, month after month? Time will tell. However, nearly everyone I ever met who bought their way into Norrath also left it after only a short time. Exceptions were few and far between.

The man says he wants freedom to experiment on the F2P (RMT) servers.  Well, he's in charge -- so he gets to choose.

I know which group of players I would prefer to "hang out" with, though. SMILEY

MoiraesFate wrote:

(snip)

You are inviting the worst possible type of player to play the game. The one that doesn't give a crap about how the game actually is and will harass the daylights out of everyone around them. The power gamers, twinks, cheaters, and leet crowd. And you KNOW it.

(snip)

Its the people that keep coming back that keep a company in businesses... NOT the people that hop from game to game.

I don't mind having the other type of server out there, but it is uncomfortable to see those servers looking likely to be the primary gateway into Norrath.

It troubles me that free trials to standard servers are apparently switching to invitation-only.

Even the FAQ seemed to promote the RMT / F2P servers as the place to establish (not just a place to begin).  The current servers were mentioned, amost as an afterthought, as remaining available. That lack of encouragement to move is uncomfortable reading. It almost discourages moving to the standard live servers, which is counter-productive.

I understand enthusiasm about something new. However, just because something is new does *not* automatically make it better.

A bit of re-phrasing in that FAQ to make the current Live servers sound a bit more attractive would *really* help!

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:38 PM   #675
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I am offering my feedback. That's what you wanted, right? I hope I don't get banned for not being all for this.

This morning my husband told me about this news. Each time he read off a feature for the EQ2ex or whatever you're calling it, I immediately responded with "that's stupid!" I could not believe it. This is not the way to go. The vast majority of your players do not want this. Games go Free to Play when they're ready to die or when the devs stop caring.

If you're worried about earning money, how about trying some actual advertising for the game instead of implementing this nonsense? For pity's sake, WoW has commercials with freaking Mr. T in them. From you guys? You didn't even try to get the Sham-Wow guy. At least that guy can sell things.

It's like you abandoned us for money. You do not listen to your community as much as you should be.

But you tried the Marketplace and found that people love to pay money for silly things. At first I was against it, but then I thought, hey, the money we put in there goes to the devs who make the game that I love to bits. Apparently not, after 35 people were let go. How many were from EQ2?

If you listened to the players, the people who put their hearts into this game, you wouldn't have taken this route. If you had asked us what we thought perhaps you would have taken a better path instead of "oh hay, let's get more money out of these people."

The Marketplace items you're putting up are pretty much just cheat items. Wand of Devestation? Really? That's completely taking out the challenge of a difficult mob. Perhaps a mob that requires a group to kill. Which means you're killing a potential group. Forget skill, all you need to do is mash a button and life is easy. Lame. Lame. Lame.

The classes you picked for the bronze doofs are going to be the only ones you focus on dev wise. I play a Warlock, but I don't want my other friends who didn't pick one of the magic 8 classes to fall the wayside.

New players aren't going to bother with Legacy servers anymore. You're effectively going to kill us like this. Subscriptions will go down, groups will be harder to find, and you'll have to merge a majority of the servers due to low pop.

All in all, I think this is a horrible idea.

This is my feedback. I do not expect it to be listened to but at least others who feel the same way will know they're definitely not alone.

+1

Well said. AB will persist for a while due to sheer numbers, but it will be an extremely small percentage of people that will go out, buy the game, and play on a legacy server.

This will be the straw that breaks the camels back for a lot of people. I've seen 10 accounts(not exaggerating) get cancelled by people I know in the last 2 weeks alone. Now I'm seeing more "Taking a break" posts in guild forums. 5-6 of the top 10 raiding guilds on Antonia Bayle have closed doors in the last month. Don't believe me? Check the server forums on eq2flames.

Personally, I wish they would go f2p on all servers, simply so I can unsubscribe, then log in at will once I've moved on to another game so I can say hi to people here.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:39 PM   #676
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GrunEQ wrote:

I think Gage hit it first and with the responses I'm seeing from Smokejumer I've come to the conclusion that this is smoke and mirror stuff going on so that when they can eventually announce that F2P/P2P will go to live servers, and there will be a sigh of relief.  That this being completly separate, is to stir the waters so we will be begging for it to come to Live and help with keeping up populations.  Then he can say there was a demand for it.

There is no doubt in my mind the EQ2X offering was designed specifically to elicit this response.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:39 PM   #677
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

The majority of the feedback is negative here, isn't it? As it is on EQ2Flames and other EQ2 blogs and sites. That's why they're banning people here.

How the heck do you figure they're the minority? 

Because most people, like 90%, don't come to the forums.  The people here and on flames are a minority.  A very vocal minority, but a minority none the less.

And the kind of feedback that people are posting, keeps people who do support it quiet, becuase they are afraid to say anything, lest they be roasted (especially on EQ2F.)

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:40 PM   #678
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What exactly are the restrictions on using the broker?

I can't buy?

Can't sell?

Have a limited number of items I can sell?

Has this been clearly explained anywhere? Do I have to vendor trash everything I can't use, or stand in the middle of Qeynos /saying "Who wants to buy this stuff" ??

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:40 PM   #679
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A friend mentioned "it's a tricky situation because f2p [stuff] could well kill off sub fee servers, but if you don't do something to try to expand the player base, they can't support any servers anyway."

Also there should be ways to transfer between both server types, and let newbies into legacy servers without RAF because it'll damage raiding, since guilds will have a hard time recruiting newer players.

All in all if done wrong it'll damage EQ2Live.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:40 PM   #680
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Nolrog wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

The vast majority of your players do not want this.

Stop with the hyperbole.  The vast majority of players don't care.  The vocal minority do not want this.  Don't kid yourself that it's anything more than that.

The real debate here isn't what specific players want.  That is pretty much a waste of time.  The issue is what the consequences will be of this change to the game.  Pushing pretty much all new players away from the established player base will cause a disruption that could end up being very destructive and should be considered not from a PR point of view, but from a system point of view.

My two cents are that it might make sense to use one or both of the livegamer/exchange servers for this experiment.  The player populations on those servers are the most amenable to the idea of selling equipment for cash and the populations are rather low, so a boost in population would be relatively easy to support presuming the hardware isn't inferior.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:42 PM   #681
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Nolrog wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

The majority of the feedback is negative here, isn't it? As it is on EQ2Flames and other EQ2 blogs and sites. That's why they're banning people here.

How the heck do you figure they're the minority?

Because most people, like 90%, don't come to the forums.  The people here and on flames are a minority.

Yep, and a lot of those will simply up and unsubscribe if they don't like whats going on, because its not worth the trouble to them, with so much more out there, and so much more on the horizon.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:43 PM   #682
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Iamien1 wrote:

Having less Newbs does affect us. We sort of need the newbs to counter the number of players that leave the game.

How many noobs do you see now?

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:43 PM   #683
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People so mad at the concept people not really looking at what they offer in FTP. It just doesnt seem like it will work. Take a look at bronze. Think back when you started the game and think of the issues you going to have if you are restricted to thoses rules. (this game is still very hard at low levels when you arenet twinket out)

one example is legendary and fabled restricted.

This means you cant buy led or fab loot from broker or market place (so what does FTP benefit them)

When you go in an instance and you get led or fable from killing a name you dont get to use the item

Some quest reward you get led and fable items you cant use

Hertridge quest items you cant use

So basically they want people to do quests and killl no names and get no led,/ fable loot.

That doenst make sense at all

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:44 PM   #684
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Nolrog wrote:

Iamien1 wrote:

Having less Newbs does affect us. We sort of need the newbs to counter the number of players that leave the game.

How many noobs do you see now?

My guild is one of the largest RP guilds on Antonia Bayle right now, and we've been seeing a ton of fresh blood. Actual new players. This will stop that.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:47 PM   #685
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90%.

Thank you for the scientific and mostly likely terribly accurate number that you just didn't pull out of thin air.

If people don't care? Yes, they'll leave. And the game will die. I happen to care, as do all the people being the "vocal minority."

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:48 PM   #686
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DO NOT TAKE OUR NEWBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:52 PM   #687
Iamien1

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Nolrog wrote:

Iamien1 wrote:

Having less Newbs does affect us. We sort of need the newbs to counter the number of players that leave the game.

How many noobs do you see now?

My guild this past week on crushbone alone have seen at least 15 fresh players.

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:53 PM   #688
Terrius

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Imo they should add a limited but free account type that allows 2 characters to reach lvl 50(maybe 80) with a cap on AA and content (up to RoK only) and put out a bunch of adds on the internet. Least then you wouldnt need all the stupid armour restirctions and crap. Also It'd bring new players to the real servers. this whole EQ2X thing seems like a shock campaign to reveal that it'll actually be hitting the live servers.
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:53 PM   #689
Tynii

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You can count me in the minority that think this ftp idea is complete crap!!!
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:54 PM   #690
Shagrax
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What is the perk for EQ2Live players you talked about, SmokeJumper?

Unlimited player slots?Ability to play more than one char at time per account?Elighten us

(changed color since red is so angry, when im not, im curious) 

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