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Old 10-24-2017, 11:45 PM   #1
Krystalea

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Thank you very much for changing some of the requirements. One request if possible. On the first page (sub-class) is it possible to change the end-line requirement from 22 AA's spent in that line to 20 AA's spent? This would go with the theme of requiring us to spend "bad" AA's to get to the end-line.

Thank you!
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:28 AM   #2
Arieva

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+1 on this request. The requirement to keep points in the same line to get endlines still handcuffs us to outdated or useless aa's. Require us to spend points on that tab, I'm ok with that but not to restrict it in a given line.
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Old 10-25-2017, 01:47 AM   #3
Mermut

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This, exactly, If the 'lines' are still required then the dependencies are still, effectively, in place for that page.
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Old 10-25-2017, 03:40 AM   #4
Lyricus

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"Most dependencies" seems to be an extreme exaggeration. I am not sure what I was expecting, but I don't anticipate the current changes to make much of a difference. Maybe it will save a couple points, but most classes have no where desirable to put those freed up points.
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:36 PM   #5
Earar

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when u remove dependencies, the nice thing is to make all of the same rank AA .. almost equivalent in power. Otherwise there's no real choice, coz everyone will take the same ones.

so thank you for allowing us to scrap useless AAs, but no thanks for not changing any AA and making builds more and more generic
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:37 PM   #6
Ingerimm

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I mean my eyes are the AA changes completely ok.


End skills must be subject to restrictions otherwise everyone would choose all end skills.


At the moment, the paladin class has a bug in the prestige tree that affects the prestige mastery, but this should be fixed with the next patch, according to the developers, possible other classes also are affected.
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:39 PM   #7
Earar

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all tanks have the same issue (tried on bruiser and monk and same issue .. so I guess all tanks have this issue)

but my wardens had no issue
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Old 10-29-2017, 04:33 PM   #8
Mercychalice

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I have to admit, I was hoping to see the class specific tree opened up too.
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:44 AM   #9
Sinupox

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Honestly, I was expecting new prestige with the level cap increase. I'm disappointed. In fact there hasn't been any new AA or prestige in years. I would settle with making previous AA/prestige choices relevant to current gear inflation levels, you could even add a clause that states the additional effects only work if lvl 101+ to avoid further trivializing older content. but simply removing some requirements seems stale. The character customization options have been virtually the same since DoV.

I don't understand why there isn't any new prestige. You could have a prestige line for each of the class archetypes providing options for each ascension type, effectively creating new and dynamic archetype/ascension combos. Just a few examples; adding options like resets to professional spells on casting ascensions, reduced cast times on ascensions after casting certain professional spells, addition ascension hits with "self combos", increased duration of certain professional spells after casting certain ascension, addition combo triggers with others, true healer oriented options like replacements to ascension nukes that are wards with bleedthough resistance on the same cast/reuse timers as the base ascension, and endline buffs of era appropriate values.

And from a company executive point of view, why would we spend resources on this? To sell more research time reduction on ascension spells. Grandmastering a single ascension class I've spent far more than what I do in the base expansion + yearly subscription. As a defiler/etherealist I only switch ascensions when required to fill a role to defeat certain encounters. Thats not a good selling point for purchasing new GM ascensions. But, for example, If shaman/etherealist is the best AoE dps choice with minor utility, shaman/thaumaturgist best single target dps with minor healing options, shaman/geomancer would give nice survivability oriented options and minor utility, and shaman/elementalist had best utility options.... I could be convinced to spend quite a lot of money for all those shiny new toys.
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Old 10-31-2017, 01:08 PM   #10
Lucus

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i agree they should shave the requirements down from 22 pts to 20 it would save people a few points on not so great AAs to spend elsewhere.
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:31 PM   #11
Sudedor

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I think that what we have now is a start, but changing the requirement on the first page from 22 to 20 would be nice and certainly I can't think of any places it would be OP, since the requirements below the initial lines are still in place.

I would also like to see more flexibility in some of the other trees. Honestly, the changes as we have them are really not going to "change" anything.

My biggest gripe with ALL of the AA's is that they are ALL largely irrelevant. Yes, there are a few end tier abilities that are very nice, in some cases class defining. That's great! AA's should matter! However, I'd like them ALL to matter.

One thing that could help is to make them actually do something. I'm going to use Conjuror examples, because that's the class I'm currently playing as a main.

Example 1:

Enhance Crystal Blast

Current Ability: Improves Crit Bonus by 1, improves casting speed by .2
Theoretical Change: Improves Fervor by 1, improves base casting speed by .1

Notes - Right now, this AA does absolutely nothing. For the purposes of this post, my definition of nothing is that the effect is immeasurably small. In my theoretical example, it would be a small, but measurable change to the spell. I would actually feel that spending those points made my character "better".


Example 2:

Servant's Aid

Current Ability: Improves base heal amount by 6%. (per point)
Theoretical Change: Improves Fervor by 5. (per point)

Notes - This is actually a huge problem in every single AA tree for every single class. A vast number of AA's have this text that reads "improves base _____" and it's absolutely not true. It's actually improving potency. Look, if I'm sitting on 45k potency, improving it by another 30 is another of those situations where it's just not measurable. Again, make me feel that those points matter and not just be another 5 points on the way to Elemental Blast.


Example 3:

Enhance: Master's Strike

Current Ability: Improves reuse time of Master's Strike by 6 seconds.
Theoretical Change: Improves base reuse time of Master's Strike by 6 seconds.

Notes - Current ability does nothing, theoretical change actually makes the skill matter.


These are just easy examples. They exist in every single class. Many of these point out systemic problems that should be addressed.

System problems:

1. Many AA's have text which indicates an increase to base amounts. None that I've been able to find actually produce that result. All of them are simply potency increases which are about the furthest thing from base increases you could possibly find. Yes, back in the original Kunark days these AA's probably had the same effect as a base increase, but even then they weren't true base increases, they were potency increases. Our potency being less than 100 then, we saw it as a base increase. Our potency now being measured in 40, 50 and 60k . . . these increases are irrelevant.

2. Many AA's have crit bonus improvements. These numbers are also now irrelevant in the world of 4k crit bonus - and capped crit bonus at that.

3. Many AA's have casting speed and re-use improvements, irrelevant in the capped reuse and cast speed world. Changing these to affect base value would help make them relevant again.


Right now, as a Conjuror, I look at the first tree and think: What do I need to do to get to Detonation (end of one line) and Elemental Toxicity (final ability on the page). I look at the second tree and think: "How do I waste as few points as possible while getting to Fury of the Elements and Elemental Blast?". It's like this for every class. You spend 40-70 points to get 3 or 4 abilities you really want. The other points are just wasted on things that do, for all practical purposes, nothing.
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:35 AM   #12
knine

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Even though they are "opened" up, the shaman lines are pretty much the same because of the end restriction. Still needs to be tweaked to allow more open using of AA's on this page or its essentially useless. The opening up of the dragon line is pretty solid as I didn't personally take any of the end lines there anyway. Like above poster states, with so much reuse/cast on gear, it really nullifies A LOT of the AA's. Its late now in the testing but something needs changed. Maybe add ability double cast in the lines. The enhance bolster AA is worthless since with Strength of the ancestors it essentially maxes out and its a known bug by everyone that hasn't been fixed yet. Throw in an aa like Templars have to reduce reuse of cure curse to 45 secs or something along those lines. Minus ritual, the whole wisdom line is useless because of gear and stats already in the game. Yes shamans don't have to choose any of them, but it really only leaves 4 lines to choose from and even STA/INT you really only take 2 of the AA's, the rest have been useless and remain that way still.
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