Chaos Descending: Priest Feedback - Page 9

11-09-2018, 03:35 PM

Priest feedback has been the most posted feedback thread the last 4 expansions and we still don't see sweeping changes to healing mechanics. I dont understand why. They just keep putting band aids on top of bandaids instead of fixing the fundamental issues.

11-09-2018, 04:39 PM

Healing is boring

I like when u have little meaningfull games to play with your class. A bit like the mystic prestige right side. Or also the defiler right side.

Where cadting damage spells procs an increment that increases warding or healing.
Sadly a class like warden is quite boring to play. Wind blade increment is too low to keep CB buff up all the time and few ways(none almost) to have control over this proc. Plus, even at 10 increments, u don’t have a great ability or buff to give u something to control during fight.

At least left side constant current makes u control more by casting the ward on most group members to maxi mdps.
Same for furies, force of nature is just a buff and right side has more control, but sad u never have a choice to use the build up stacks to do something more during fight.

Other than that it’s just casting ward, casting group heals. And dps.
And spell like protective instinct that actually gave u some stuff to do don’t scale well or will be even less usefull with the heal changes if dual healers.

But no answers and i guess a lot of healers have given up on seeing nice changes

Mermut · 11-09-2018, 05:02 PM

My biggest frustration is the decision to make non-solo healing a black box this expansion. We know what goes in (potency, crit bonus, ab mod) and what comes out (massively reduced healing) but we have no idea how they're related.
We've been told that the 'reduction' is applied to healing received, on the target of the heals, not healing out, on the healer.
The biggest proof we've got that 'reduction' is not uniform is the significant difference in the size of the 'reduction' of different heals.
In T1 zones, I've recorded some heals being reduced by 74%, others by 59% and yet others by 0%. These numbers are... highly suggestive.. that the healing reduction is done, literally, art by art. That suggests that devs could decided that heal A belonging to class B is 'too strong' and could adjust it to do whatever they want it to do... without any indication to players that a change has been made until the heal fails to perform as it has in the past.

For people who are 'pushing' their toons, this game is a numbers game.. for healing as well as dps. Unfortunately, it appears that the devs have decided that healers should be denied useful information about how their heals actually perform.

To make things more 'fun' quite a few mobs do % based damage to players... so as players get more hitpoints.. healing DOESN'T GET EASIER....
So healers should always have to work hard, even if the content is trivial... because reasons Frown

Rebelde · 11-09-2018, 05:39 PM

Personally I give up. Everytime I ask a certain dev I'm banned from Discord. So np. They will do their job as good as they think, and me, as customer, will take my decisions about game.
Being a healer in CD won't be easy or rewarding (everyone who tested it in the beta knows it). With the cheat gear I could finish the T1 heroics as solo healer, and it was't a challenge. It was a pain. And me, and a lot of people, play EQ2 to have a good time with friends.
I found me shouting the screen after a 10 mins fight in the stone zone. That's not funny Roll Eyes

11-09-2018, 06:58 PM

If you're being banned from Discord, it's because you were not polite to the devs. It's easy, when you're upset about something, to word things badly. If you come across as hostile, belittle the dev's decision, threaten to quit the game if your complaint isn't addressed, etc., that's going to get you banned.

Now note, I agree, there are vast problems with what is happening to healers, no argument from me.

I suggest taking a few minutes, draft what you want to say on Notepad or somesuch, then read back over it. If your tone or word choices would get you canned in a real world job if you handed such a note to your boss, then you need to rework what you're saying to something that still conveys your concerns without threats, insults, etc.

Rebelde · 11-09-2018, 07:07 PM

Thread? Insults? No. I made legit questions (more people agreed with me before the ban and the deleted posts). If they sounded aggresive it's cause my broken English, but it wasn't the intention.
If they only want feedback to fix bugs and read how wonderful is everything, they will miss a lot of good ideas and valuable opinions from their clients.
But hey! It's the idea I have about feedback.

Gillymann · 11-09-2018, 09:08 PM

Incorrect.

Questions/concerns about things that make the game unplayable (bugs, overtuned mobs, incompatible mechanics, etc) - OK.

Questions/concerns about game design elements/decisions/experience - Not OK -> Ban.

Daalilama · 11-10-2018, 02:06 AM

You know the single overriding issue here is quite frankly transparency and communication. These are issues to which the dev staff and by extension the senior producer are now complicit in are beyond the pale. For their lack of transparency lets give a list...

Bleedthrough was initiated as an official "balancing" mechanic to which most healers with and without wards knew was a really bad joke but were able to adapt after a time by stacking of wards to mitigate damage (healers you know doing their job).
Bleedthrough 2.0 is fast becoming the really bad jokes red headed stepson...as stacking wards to reduce incoming group/single target damage is a thing of the past (whew good thing too cause god forbid healers are able to feel useful and keep their groups green).
Control Effect Immunities, Death Saves, AE Prevents again become near pointless...I say near to be nice but even the 2.0 death saves are garbage vs incoming damage. Whats the point in having such wonderfully designed utility for groups when scripting bypasses them...sorry but occasionally having scripts that do that is fine having all scripts do that is weak by design.
The "Healer Nerf" as it has been coined stems from the serious hit EVERY healer receives once they enter a heroic or raid zone. It's a double whammy slap in the face. The amount warded/healed drops off considerably from 50-70% hit that is neither uniform by class or by spell. In addition the true mechanics involved have been intentionally hidden and the major issue is that it is a incoming heal nerf but there is more going on here that whats been said by Kander than just an incoming heal nerf so now all healers will be playing whack a mole mechanics to maintain their groups survival.
Wards. So now wards will be less effective by a long shot (kind of a kick in the shamans backside as aside from wards they have very little left since stacking is no longer a sustained option. will incoming damage be adjusted down to account for the "one and done' warding now since extra wards aside from keeping something up will be meh? Doubtful.
Reactives. With wards (if a cleric is tandem with a shaman) being less effective than they are on live...reactive triggers will be burning through at an accelerated rate. Yet with this on the horizon nothing has been done to address this major concern...and it is not like no one suggested a possible fix (band-aid) for the trigger concern.
Hots. Well druids have been complaining that their hots are not getting fully utilized among other things well you asked for it and now you got it though it comes at the expense of 4 other classes to varying degrees. And yet their are still a host of issues with druids that those who play them can answer better than me.
Planes of Prophecy was pushed as the class fix xpac but aside from some novelty fixes long standing issues were ignored. I guess Chaos Descending could be pushed as the class balance xpac but their already are enough holes in the "balancing" to call it the swiss cheese xpac.

As for communication when you do not communicate the teams plans and direction they want to move the classes and the game in a straight forward manor let alone the reasons why healers are shouldering the brunt of such excessive nerfs without much in the way of fixes or adjustments to their classes to help mitigate incoming changes you leave the healer community to simply speculate as to the motives and the anger festers. I am seeing flashbacks to the Temple of Veeshan disaster again only this time on steroids. And yet the only thing we have as a response is white noise.

11-10-2018, 07:54 AM

strange thing is that in raid it didn't feel that much different when coming to healing/dpsing

only different thing is the parse. that now some wards are less interesting to have (especially with 2 healers)

Mermut · 11-10-2018, 09:18 AM

My experience is different... I've had to be much spammier with my heals/wards... Perhaps the fights are overtuned, but I had t1 fights where single hits were blowing through entire pt ward on tank and group ward and grp ward was still on cooldown.
Sure, most fights I could keep my group alive... but the it's spammy. Not 'hard', but not 'fun' either.

11-10-2018, 11:30 AM

we tried .. last thursday, when was your experience ? earlier ?

I was really surprised, the only big damage was when tank would fail to cast bulwark tbh. Now I wasn't solo healing

11-10-2018, 02:17 PM

There are simple ways for healers showing they are unhappy:
-stop playing healer
-cancel sub.

it may feel a bit extreme, but in front such a dev's silence....

(I've been playing a healer as main since march 2005, I've got the 7 healer classes 110, and happily bought collector's editions for years...)

Beyoncia · 11-10-2018, 05:06 PM

And what if I have only one character and it's a priest? And I have no desire to stop playing?

Mermut · 11-10-2018, 05:12 PM

If I wasn't committed to my raid forces, I would bench my healers. As it is, the chances of them running any pugs is vanishingly small.
While most of the healing isn't 'too hard' form what I've seen. None of it has been 'fun'.

11-10-2018, 05:53 PM

I admire Beyoncia's comittment in the healing department, especially as inquisitor. But I'm afraid I'm not as endurant.
My year subscription ends in december, and for the first time since 2005, I"m considering not renewing it.
(BTW I'm definitely for the removal of interrogation 50% treshold but noone gives a f....)

11-12-2018, 03:45 AM

It should be obvious from my current sig where I am for the xpac. I'll be kicking around with DPS toons and someone else can fall on the healer sword. Defiler's in mothballs for the first time in ten years unless this gets straightened out.

11-12-2018, 09:57 AM

I was banned for pointing out that training monkies are a alternative to not releasing content that was originally in the game and them making a profit off of not adding content to the game.

Is that aggressive. No.

That's me voicing an opinion and giving feedback that is constructive in the sense that players feel betrayed because of the way that the situation regarding guild halls was handled. For example you now look at training dummies in guild halls, instead of making monkeys the new "dummies" they put them behind a pay wall that requires you to pay money to test your abilities against mobs that are similar in mitigation and health to raid bosses.

This now comes into a situation of not being able to comfortably provide feedback unless its a positive comment without the fear of being banned. This is why alternative websites for this game were so rampant, because it was the only place to voice your opinions freely, developers also read those seperate forums. Nothing will improve without giving opinions from all sides, hand picking opinions and silencing others isn't healthy for any situation.

I know of players who have been banned solely off of private messages to developers, not a single thing said in actual channels.

The main issue is the fact that information that is said solely on discord is not available in another medium, if players instead of being banned were given a "no speaking" rank in discord the entire issue of being "banned" from speaking and being barred from information would be resolved.

Instead now players are required to either:

A. Make a new account and not talk to avoid being banned.
B. Ask others about information
C. Pray the information gets relayed in another source either the forums or the eq2 twitter account.

Nothing about healing has changed, wards/heals are just debuffed to a sense that they aren't 100% heals, which was the way healing was originally designed.

The way that the nerf went about was wrong, they should of debuffed the original tooltips of heals to allow them to be analyzed without hidden mechanics in play.

"For people who are 'pushing' their toons, this game is a numbers game.. for healing as well as dps. Unfortunately, it appears that the devs have decided that healers should be denied useful information about how their heals actually perform."

I copied this comment from your earlier post, this game isn't always about numbers, because you can't just analyze the numbers of a class. Heal parses in this game have always been somewhat silly to look at because you also have to factor in the other utility bonuses to class, such as stoneskins, damage reductions etc.

Instead of bleedthrough wards should of just been nerfed to a number that didn't allow wards to absorb all damage, and the damage also needs to not be so ridiculous that only the strongest potential classes like druids are able to heal through it.

That was one of the great parts about tears of veeshan, a shaman could ward enough to heal through majority of the aoes and a druid could also keep up with the damage, yet the damage wasn't so high that wards were required to actually live through the aoes because the damage happened in ticks as opposed to high hits. I'm sure a few will disagree with this, but as someone who cleared that expansion and someone who was in a guild that ww1sted it I can comfortably say that based on our experiences any class could heal any mob.

Mermut · 11-12-2018, 10:14 AM

Not only is the debuff 'hidden' and not 'even' between different heals, there is little to no in game warning via casting bars, mob emotes, etc when massive damage is incoming.
Devs have decided that pre-curing is 'maing thing too easy' instead of healers paying attention and exhibiting skill.
When massive hits can come in without warning.. healing degenerates into a spam heal fest or deaths. Neither is fun. That is a significant change to 'how healing works'.

I honestly don't think the devs ever consider whether or not healing is fun or rewarding.. the way content is this expansion, giving healers little to no pertinent information seems to be a 'strategy' designed to make the content 'more challenging' Frown

11-12-2018, 10:20 AM

Im sorry but "massive hits coming in without warning..." has always been a thing, mobs have always had things like random aoe auto buffs, a tank doesn't avoid a hit etc.

I've always had to react with certain abilities waiting on them to happen, not every aoe comes exactly when your timer says, sometimes a tank used to get double attacked/flurried and it would eat multiple stoneskins and then he would randomly get hit for massive amounts of damage before the immunity to damage on each stoneskin change went in(when I played a templar in CoE, I had to be super ready to hit him with my hand heal).

This is at least my experience playing the game from t5-ToT, and a bit in kunark/PoP as basically ever healer class at some point on a myriad of encounters.

Healing has always been this way, as I said earlier, hidden mechanics is not fun. No one is disagreeing with you on that front, i'm disagreeing with your assessment that healing has had a massive change in this expansion.

11-12-2018, 04:18 PM

U need the big hits. That’s what make the healer’s job fun.
That’s why we get some insta cast heals and death saves. For the Oh Sh****t moments.
Now u usually don’t have time to use them.

Cure is nice, keeping group up is nice, for shamans, preparing group ward at right time to protect group, timing AoEs to know when u can dps and when you’ll have to heal like crazy.

Dps fun part is their rotation.
Tanks have nice conversation with mobs and need to keep them occupied while healer’s fun is all about preparation, and handling what was not planed. That no fight are always the same and that u always have to adjust. Because our mechanics are less complexe.

But right now we just perma heal whatever the reason and doesn’t matter oh prepared u were, hits can pne shot anybody.
And it wasn’t fun in pop and not funnier in CD.

Mermut · 11-12-2018, 04:58 PM

Earar said: ↑

“U need the big hits. That’s what make the healer’s job fun.
That’s why we get some insta cast heals and death saves. For the Oh Sh****t moments.
Now u usually don’t have time to use them.

Cure is nice, keeping group up is nice, for shamans, preparing group ward at right time to protect group, timing AoEs to know when u can dps and when you’ll have to heal like crazy.

Dps fun part is their rotation.
Tanks have nice conversation with mobs and need to keep them occupied while healer’s fun is all about preparation, and handling what was not planed. That no fight are always the same and that u always have to adjust. Because our mechanics are less complexe.

But right now we just perma heal whatever the reason and doesn’t matter oh prepared u were, hits can pne shot anybody.
And it wasn’t fun in pop and not funnier in CD.”

Agreed. Big hits are fine, when you can prepare for/anticipate them... Fights should give 'clues' that such things are coming... casting bars, mob emotes, etc, so healers that are paying attention know when to use their 'big stuff' to protect their group/tank. THAT takes skill and attention.
Never knowing when anything is coming in so you have to constantly throw everything including the kitchen sink in 'just in case' or risk people dying isn't 'hard'... it's tedious and disheartening.

Daalilama · 11-12-2018, 05:05 PM

Death saves are pointless and have been for some time. Since the devs believe control effect immunities and ae prevents be that class abilities or war runes need to be pointless well their scripts need to follow the guk method of bypassing everything. With wards not being quite as effective now reactives and hots will come further into play but to date no attempt at adjusting reactive trigger count up or increasing the dr on hots has be made to compensate. Taking everything into consideration between the changes to bleedthrough the hidden incoming heal nerf (the mechanics and math of which have been intentionally obfuscated) the nerf to heals inside heroic/raid zones the constant power drains on everything (going back to skyshrine mechanics of power drains everywhere was not a fun time than and it wont be here) the select dots that must not be cured so year I would think healers are somewhat pissed. The dev team should really not use the phrase "we're players too" when they won't or can't play healers and than set out to set up shackles on our legs as we try to keep groups green. It's also why the devs re silent on this thread they got called on the carpet and instead of manning up and provide part of the discussion (feedback is a 2 way street..as of now its only 1 way) they hope the anger dissipates when we go live so they hide....it won't.

Gillymann · 11-12-2018, 06:52 PM

So.....

According to your statement, you value having fun less than you value commitment to your raid force. Not judging your preferences, however, nothing will change "fun-wise" as longs as people continue to order the experience of fun below other things, because DBG knows people will continue buy even if they are not having said fun.

To each their own Smile

Mermut · 11-12-2018, 07:00 PM

I can't argue your point, but I'm also not going to leave my friends in a lurch. I just hope I don't burn out.

Mermut · 11-12-2018, 07:51 PM

*sigh* Going through AA and with nearly no information about how the heal debuff works means it's not even possible to make informed choices about AAs Frown

11-12-2018, 08:01 PM

I kinda wonder if any devs play healers, and if so, which healer classes?

11-12-2018, 08:03 PM

can change game Wink

inq of course

11-12-2018, 08:07 PM

A better question might be, do they play them like we play them, or do they run through the game with the best of everything, rather than having earned it like players have to?

Gillymann · 11-12-2018, 08:09 PM

Mermut, you are waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy over-thinking it:

Steps:

(1) Just max pot, cb, fervor, resolve.
(2) Keep your buffs ticking
(3) Constantly spam your best 4 or 5 abilities.
(4) Cure
(5) Toss out an ascension every now and then.

No, no, no.

You're welcome Smile

Mermut · 11-12-2018, 08:20 PM

A bot could do that Tongue

I like to actually maximize my effectiveness, not minimize my chances of staying awake Wink

11-09-2018, 06:58 PM	#245
Sigrdrifa Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Rebelde said: ↑ “Personally I give up. Everytime I ask a certain dev I'm banned from Discord. So np. They will do their job as good as they think, and me, as customer, will take my decisions about game. Being a healer in CD won't be easy or rewarding (everyone who tested it in the beta knows it). With the cheat gear I could finish the T1 heroics as solo healer, and it was't a challenge. It was a pain. And me, and a lot of people, play EQ2 to have a good time with friends. I found me shouting the screen after a 10 mins fight in the stone zone. That's not funny ” If you're being banned from Discord, it's because you were not polite to the devs. It's easy, when you're upset about something, to word things badly. If you come across as hostile, belittle the dev's decision, threaten to quit the game if your complaint isn't addressed, etc., that's going to get you banned. Now note, I agree, there are vast problems with what is happening to healers, no argument from me. I suggest taking a few minutes, draft what you want to say on Notepad or somesuch, then read back over it. If your tone or word choices would get you canned in a real world job if you handed such a note to your boss, then you need to rework what you're saying to something that still conveys your concerns without threats, insults, etc.

11-09-2018, 09:08 PM	#247
Gillymann New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Sigrdrifa said: ↑ “If you're being banned from Discord, it's because you were not polite to the devs. It's easy, when you're upset about something, to word things badly. If you come across as hostile, belittle the dev's decision, threaten to quit the game if your complaint isn't addressed, etc., that's going to get you banned. Now note, I agree, there are vast problems with what is happening to healers, no argument from me. I suggest taking a few minutes, draft what you want to say on Notepad or somesuch, then read back over it. If your tone or word choices would get you canned in a real world job if you handed such a note to your boss, then you need to rework what you're saying to something that still conveys your concerns without threats, insults, etc.” Incorrect. Questions/concerns about things that make the game unplayable (bugs, overtuned mobs, incompatible mechanics, etc) - OK. Questions/concerns about game design elements/decisions/experience - Not OK -> Ban.

11-10-2018, 02:06 AM	#248
Daalilama Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	You know the single overriding issue here is quite frankly transparency and communication. These are issues to which the dev staff and by extension the senior producer are now complicit in are beyond the pale. For their lack of transparency lets give a list... Bleedthrough was initiated as an official "balancing" mechanic to which most healers with and without wards knew was a really bad joke but were able to adapt after a time by stacking of wards to mitigate damage (healers you know doing their job). Bleedthrough 2.0 is fast becoming the really bad jokes red headed stepson...as stacking wards to reduce incoming group/single target damage is a thing of the past (whew good thing too cause god forbid healers are able to feel useful and keep their groups green). Control Effect Immunities, Death Saves, AE Prevents again become near pointless...I say near to be nice but even the 2.0 death saves are garbage vs incoming damage. Whats the point in having such wonderfully designed utility for groups when scripting bypasses them...sorry but occasionally having scripts that do that is fine having all scripts do that is weak by design. The "Healer Nerf" as it has been coined stems from the serious hit EVERY healer receives once they enter a heroic or raid zone. It's a double whammy slap in the face. The amount warded/healed drops off considerably from 50-70% hit that is neither uniform by class or by spell. In addition the true mechanics involved have been intentionally hidden and the major issue is that it is a incoming heal nerf but there is more going on here that whats been said by Kander than just an incoming heal nerf so now all healers will be playing whack a mole mechanics to maintain their groups survival. Wards. So now wards will be less effective by a long shot (kind of a kick in the shamans backside as aside from wards they have very little left since stacking is no longer a sustained option. will incoming damage be adjusted down to account for the "one and done' warding now since extra wards aside from keeping something up will be meh? Doubtful. Reactives. With wards (if a cleric is tandem with a shaman) being less effective than they are on live...reactive triggers will be burning through at an accelerated rate. Yet with this on the horizon nothing has been done to address this major concern...and it is not like no one suggested a possible fix (band-aid) for the trigger concern. Hots. Well druids have been complaining that their hots are not getting fully utilized among other things well you asked for it and now you got it though it comes at the expense of 4 other classes to varying degrees. And yet their are still a host of issues with druids that those who play them can answer better than me. Planes of Prophecy was pushed as the class fix xpac but aside from some novelty fixes long standing issues were ignored. I guess Chaos Descending could be pushed as the class balance xpac but their already are enough holes in the "balancing" to call it the swiss cheese xpac. As for communication when you do not communicate the teams plans and direction they want to move the classes and the game in a straight forward manor let alone the reasons why healers are shouldering the brunt of such excessive nerfs without much in the way of fixes or adjustments to their classes to help mitigate incoming changes you leave the healer community to simply speculate as to the motives and the anger festers. I am seeing flashbacks to the Temple of Veeshan disaster again only this time on steroids. And yet the only thing we have as a response is white noise.

11-10-2018, 09:18 AM	#250
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Earar said: ↑ “strange thing is that in raid it didn't feel that much different when coming to healing/dpsing only different thing is the parse. that now some wards are less interesting to have (especially with 2 healers)” My experience is different... I've had to be much spammier with my heals/wards... Perhaps the fights are overtuned, but I had t1 fights where single hits were blowing through entire pt ward on tank and group ward and grp ward was still on cooldown. Sure, most fights I could keep my group alive... but the it's spammy. Not 'hard', but not 'fun' either.

11-10-2018, 05:06 PM	#253
Beyoncia Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Torquem said: ↑ “There are simple ways for healers showing they are unhappy: -stop playing healer -cancel sub.” And what if I have only one character and it's a priest? And I have no desire to stop playing?

11-09-2018, 03:35 PM	#241
Fistpower Active Member Posts: n/a	Priest feedback has been the most posted feedback thread the last 4 expansions and we still don't see sweeping changes to healing mechanics. I dont understand why. They just keep putting band aids on top of bandaids instead of fixing the fundamental issues.

11-09-2018, 04:39 PM	#242
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Healing is boring I like when u have little meaningfull games to play with your class. A bit like the mystic prestige right side. Or also the defiler right side. Where cadting damage spells procs an increment that increases warding or healing. Sadly a class like warden is quite boring to play. Wind blade increment is too low to keep CB buff up all the time and few ways(none almost) to have control over this proc. Plus, even at 10 increments, u don’t have a great ability or buff to give u something to control during fight. At least left side constant current makes u control more by casting the ward on most group members to maxi mdps. Same for furies, force of nature is just a buff and right side has more control, but sad u never have a choice to use the build up stacks to do something more during fight. Other than that it’s just casting ward, casting group heals. And dps. And spell like protective instinct that actually gave u some stuff to do don’t scale well or will be even less usefull with the heal changes if dual healers. But no answers and i guess a lot of healers have given up on seeing nice changes

11-09-2018, 05:02 PM	#243
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	My biggest frustration is the decision to make non-solo healing a black box this expansion. We know what goes in (potency, crit bonus, ab mod) and what comes out (massively reduced healing) but we have no idea how they're related. We've been told that the 'reduction' is applied to healing received, on the target of the heals, not healing out, on the healer. The biggest proof we've got that 'reduction' is not uniform is the significant difference in the size of the 'reduction' of different heals. In T1 zones, I've recorded some heals being reduced by 74%, others by 59% and yet others by 0%. These numbers are... highly suggestive.. that the healing reduction is done, literally, art by art. That suggests that devs could decided that heal A belonging to class B is 'too strong' and could adjust it to do whatever they want it to do... without any indication to players that a change has been made until the heal fails to perform as it has in the past. For people who are 'pushing' their toons, this game is a numbers game.. for healing as well as dps. Unfortunately, it appears that the devs have decided that healers should be denied useful information about how their heals actually perform. To make things more 'fun' quite a few mobs do % based damage to players... so as players get more hitpoints.. healing DOESN'T GET EASIER.... So healers should always have to work hard, even if the content is trivial... because reasons

11-09-2018, 05:39 PM	#244
Rebelde New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Personally I give up. Everytime I ask a certain dev I'm banned from Discord. So np. They will do their job as good as they think, and me, as customer, will take my decisions about game. Being a healer in CD won't be easy or rewarding (everyone who tested it in the beta knows it). With the cheat gear I could finish the T1 heroics as solo healer, and it was't a challenge. It was a pain. And me, and a lot of people, play EQ2 to have a good time with friends. I found me shouting the screen after a 10 mins fight in the stone zone. That's not funny

11-09-2018, 07:07 PM	#246
Rebelde New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Thread? Insults? No. I made legit questions (more people agreed with me before the ban and the deleted posts). If they sounded aggresive it's cause my broken English, but it wasn't the intention. If they only want feedback to fix bugs and read how wonderful is everything, they will miss a lot of good ideas and valuable opinions from their clients. But hey! It's the idea I have about feedback.

11-10-2018, 07:54 AM	#249
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	strange thing is that in raid it didn't feel that much different when coming to healing/dpsing only different thing is the parse. that now some wards are less interesting to have (especially with 2 healers)

11-10-2018, 11:30 AM	#251
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	we tried .. last thursday, when was your experience ? earlier ? I was really surprised, the only big damage was when tank would fail to cast bulwark tbh. Now I wasn't solo healing

11-10-2018, 02:17 PM	#252
Torquem Member Posts: n/a	There are simple ways for healers showing they are unhappy: -stop playing healer -cancel sub. it may feel a bit extreme, but in front such a dev's silence.... (I've been playing a healer as main since march 2005, I've got the 7 healer classes 110, and happily bought collector's editions for years...)

11-10-2018, 05:12 PM	#254
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Torquem said: ↑ “There are simple ways for healers showing they are unhappy: -stop playing healer -cancel sub. it may feel a bit extreme, but in front such a dev's silence.... (I've been playing a healer as main since march 2005, I've got the 7 healer classes 110, and happily bought collector's editions for years...)” If I wasn't committed to my raid forces, I would bench my healers. As it is, the chances of them running any pugs is vanishingly small. While most of the healing isn't 'too hard' form what I've seen. None of it has been 'fun'.

11-10-2018, 05:53 PM	#255
Torquem Member Posts: n/a	I admire Beyoncia's comittment in the healing department, especially as inquisitor. But I'm afraid I'm not as endurant. My year subscription ends in december, and for the first time since 2005, I"m considering not renewing it. (BTW I'm definitely for the removal of interrogation 50% treshold but noone gives a f....)

11-12-2018, 03:45 AM	#256
Anaogi Active Member Posts: n/a	It should be obvious from my current sig where I am for the xpac. I'll be kicking around with DPS toons and someone else can fall on the healer sword. Defiler's in mothballs for the first time in ten years unless this gets straightened out.

11-12-2018, 09:57 AM	#257
Adoninilol Active Member Posts: n/a	Sigrdrifa said: ↑ “If you're being banned from Discord, it's because you were not polite to the devs. It's easy, when you're upset about something, to word things badly. If you come across as hostile, belittle the dev's decision, threaten to quit the game if your complaint isn't addressed, etc., that's going to get you banned. Now note, I agree, there are vast problems with what is happening to healers, no argument from me. I suggest taking a few minutes, draft what you want to say on Notepad or somesuch, then read back over it. If your tone or word choices would get you canned in a real world job if you handed such a note to your boss, then you need to rework what you're saying to something that still conveys your concerns without threats, insults, etc.” I was banned for pointing out that training monkies are a alternative to not releasing content that was originally in the game and them making a profit off of not adding content to the game. Is that aggressive. No. That's me voicing an opinion and giving feedback that is constructive in the sense that players feel betrayed because of the way that the situation regarding guild halls was handled. For example you now look at training dummies in guild halls, instead of making monkeys the new "dummies" they put them behind a pay wall that requires you to pay money to test your abilities against mobs that are similar in mitigation and health to raid bosses. This now comes into a situation of not being able to comfortably provide feedback unless its a positive comment without the fear of being banned. This is why alternative websites for this game were so rampant, because it was the only place to voice your opinions freely, developers also read those seperate forums. Nothing will improve without giving opinions from all sides, hand picking opinions and silencing others isn't healthy for any situation. I know of players who have been banned solely off of private messages to developers, not a single thing said in actual channels. The main issue is the fact that information that is said solely on discord is not available in another medium, if players instead of being banned were given a "no speaking" rank in discord the entire issue of being "banned" from speaking and being barred from information would be resolved. Instead now players are required to either: A. Make a new account and not talk to avoid being banned. B. Ask others about information C. Pray the information gets relayed in another source either the forums or the eq2 twitter account. Mermut said: ↑ “If I wasn't committed to my raid forces, I would bench my healers. As it is, the chances of them running any pugs is vanishingly small. While most of the healing isn't 'too hard' form what I've seen. None of it has been 'fun'.” Nothing about healing has changed, wards/heals are just debuffed to a sense that they aren't 100% heals, which was the way healing was originally designed. The way that the nerf went about was wrong, they should of debuffed the original tooltips of heals to allow them to be analyzed without hidden mechanics in play. "For people who are 'pushing' their toons, this game is a numbers game.. for healing as well as dps. Unfortunately, it appears that the devs have decided that healers should be denied useful information about how their heals actually perform." I copied this comment from your earlier post, this game isn't always about numbers, because you can't just analyze the numbers of a class. Heal parses in this game have always been somewhat silly to look at because you also have to factor in the other utility bonuses to class, such as stoneskins, damage reductions etc. Instead of bleedthrough wards should of just been nerfed to a number that didn't allow wards to absorb all damage, and the damage also needs to not be so ridiculous that only the strongest potential classes like druids are able to heal through it. That was one of the great parts about tears of veeshan, a shaman could ward enough to heal through majority of the aoes and a druid could also keep up with the damage, yet the damage wasn't so high that wards were required to actually live through the aoes because the damage happened in ticks as opposed to high hits. I'm sure a few will disagree with this, but as someone who cleared that expansion and someone who was in a guild that ww1sted it I can comfortably say that based on our experiences any class could heal any mob.

11-12-2018, 10:14 AM	#258
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Adoninilol said: ↑ “ Nothing about healing has changed, wards/heals are just debuffed to a sense that they aren't 100% heals, which was the way healing was originally designed. The way that the nerf went about was wrong, they should of debuffed the original tooltips of heals to allow them to be analyzed without hidden mechanics in play.” Not only is the debuff 'hidden' and not 'even' between different heals, there is little to no in game warning via casting bars, mob emotes, etc when massive damage is incoming. Devs have decided that pre-curing is 'maing thing too easy' instead of healers paying attention and exhibiting skill. When massive hits can come in without warning.. healing degenerates into a spam heal fest or deaths. Neither is fun. That is a significant change to 'how healing works'. I honestly don't think the devs ever consider whether or not healing is fun or rewarding.. the way content is this expansion, giving healers little to no pertinent information seems to be a 'strategy' designed to make the content 'more challenging'

11-12-2018, 10:20 AM	#259
Adoninilol Active Member Posts: n/a	Mermut said: ↑ “Not only is the debuff 'hidden' and not 'even' between different heals, there is little to no in game warning via casting bars, mob emotes, etc when massive damage is incoming. Devs have decided that pre-curing is 'maing thing too easy' instead of healers paying attention and exhibiting skill. When massive hits can come in without warning.. healing degenerates into a spam heal fest or deaths. Neither is fun. That is a significant change to 'how healing works'. I honestly don't think the devs ever consider whether or not healing is fun or rewarding.. the way content is this expansion, giving healers little to no pertinent information seems to be a 'strategy' designed to make the content 'more challenging' ” Im sorry but "massive hits coming in without warning..." has always been a thing, mobs have always had things like random aoe auto buffs, a tank doesn't avoid a hit etc. I've always had to react with certain abilities waiting on them to happen, not every aoe comes exactly when your timer says, sometimes a tank used to get double attacked/flurried and it would eat multiple stoneskins and then he would randomly get hit for massive amounts of damage before the immunity to damage on each stoneskin change went in(when I played a templar in CoE, I had to be super ready to hit him with my hand heal). This is at least my experience playing the game from t5-ToT, and a bit in kunark/PoP as basically ever healer class at some point on a myriad of encounters. Healing has always been this way, as I said earlier, hidden mechanics is not fun. No one is disagreeing with you on that front, i'm disagreeing with your assessment that healing has had a massive change in this expansion.

11-12-2018, 04:18 PM	#260
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	U need the big hits. That’s what make the healer’s job fun. That’s why we get some insta cast heals and death saves. For the Oh Sh****t moments. Now u usually don’t have time to use them. Cure is nice, keeping group up is nice, for shamans, preparing group ward at right time to protect group, timing AoEs to know when u can dps and when you’ll have to heal like crazy. Dps fun part is their rotation. Tanks have nice conversation with mobs and need to keep them occupied while healer’s fun is all about preparation, and handling what was not planed. That no fight are always the same and that u always have to adjust. Because our mechanics are less complexe. But right now we just perma heal whatever the reason and doesn’t matter oh prepared u were, hits can pne shot anybody. And it wasn’t fun in pop and not funnier in CD.

11-12-2018, 04:58 PM	#261
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Earar said: ↑ “U need the big hits. That’s what make the healer’s job fun. That’s why we get some insta cast heals and death saves. For the Oh Sh****t moments. Now u usually don’t have time to use them. Cure is nice, keeping group up is nice, for shamans, preparing group ward at right time to protect group, timing AoEs to know when u can dps and when you’ll have to heal like crazy. Dps fun part is their rotation. Tanks have nice conversation with mobs and need to keep them occupied while healer’s fun is all about preparation, and handling what was not planed. That no fight are always the same and that u always have to adjust. Because our mechanics are less complexe. But right now we just perma heal whatever the reason and doesn’t matter oh prepared u were, hits can pne shot anybody. And it wasn’t fun in pop and not funnier in CD.” Agreed. Big hits are fine, when you can prepare for/anticipate them... Fights should give 'clues' that such things are coming... casting bars, mob emotes, etc, so healers that are paying attention know when to use their 'big stuff' to protect their group/tank. THAT takes skill and attention. Never knowing when anything is coming in so you have to constantly throw everything including the kitchen sink in 'just in case' or risk people dying isn't 'hard'... it's tedious and disheartening.

11-12-2018, 05:05 PM	#262
Daalilama Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Death saves are pointless and have been for some time. Since the devs believe control effect immunities and ae prevents be that class abilities or war runes need to be pointless well their scripts need to follow the guk method of bypassing everything. With wards not being quite as effective now reactives and hots will come further into play but to date no attempt at adjusting reactive trigger count up or increasing the dr on hots has be made to compensate. Taking everything into consideration between the changes to bleedthrough the hidden incoming heal nerf (the mechanics and math of which have been intentionally obfuscated) the nerf to heals inside heroic/raid zones the constant power drains on everything (going back to skyshrine mechanics of power drains everywhere was not a fun time than and it wont be here) the select dots that must not be cured so year I would think healers are somewhat pissed. The dev team should really not use the phrase "we're players too" when they won't or can't play healers and than set out to set up shackles on our legs as we try to keep groups green. It's also why the devs re silent on this thread they got called on the carpet and instead of manning up and provide part of the discussion (feedback is a 2 way street..as of now its only 1 way) they hope the anger dissipates when we go live so they hide....it won't.

11-12-2018, 06:52 PM	#263
Gillymann New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Mermut said: ↑ “If I wasn't committed to my raid forces, I would bench my healers. As it is, the chances of them running any pugs is vanishingly small. While most of the healing isn't 'too hard' form what I've seen. None of it has been 'fun'.” So..... According to your statement, you value having fun less than you value commitment to your raid force. Not judging your preferences, however, nothing will change "fun-wise" as longs as people continue to order the experience of fun below other things, because DBG knows people will continue buy even if they are not having said fun. To each their own

11-12-2018, 07:00 PM	#264
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Gillymann said: ↑ “So..... According to your statement, you value having fun less than you value commitment to your raid force. Not judging your preferences, however, nothing will change "fun-wise" as longs as people continue to order the experience of fun below other things, because DBG knows people will continue buy even if they are not having said fun. To each their own ” I can't argue your point, but I'm also not going to leave my friends in a lurch. I just hope I don't burn out.

11-12-2018, 07:51 PM	#265
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	sigh Going through AA and with nearly no information about how the heal debuff works means it's not even possible to make informed choices about AAs

11-12-2018, 08:01 PM	#266
Sigrdrifa Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Mermut said: ↑ “I honestly don't think the devs ever consider whether or not healing is fun or rewarding..” I kinda wonder if any devs play healers, and if so, which healer classes?

11-12-2018, 08:03 PM	#267
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Mermut said: ↑ “I can't argue your point, but I'm also not going to leave my friends in a lurch. I just hope I don't burn out.” can change game Sigrdrifa said: ↑ “I kinda wonder if any devs play healers, and if so, which healer classes?” inq of course

11-12-2018, 08:07 PM	#268
Bhayar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Sigrdrifa said: ↑ “I kinda wonder if any devs play healers, and if so, which healer classes?” A better question might be, do they play them like we play them, or do they run through the game with the best of everything, rather than having earned it like players have to?

11-12-2018, 08:09 PM	#269
Gillymann New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Mermut said: ↑ “sigh Going through AA and with nearly no information about how the heal debuff works means it's not even possible to make informed choices about AAs ” Mermut, you are waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy over-thinking it: Steps: (1) Just max pot, cb, fervor, resolve. (2) Keep your buffs ticking (3) Constantly spam your best 4 or 5 abilities. (4) Cure (5) Toss out an ascension every now and then. No, no, no. You're welcome

11-12-2018, 08:20 PM	#270
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Gillymann said: ↑ “Mermut, you are waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy over-thinking it: Steps: (1) Just max pot, cb, fervor, resolve. (2) Keep your buffs ticking (3) Constantly spam your best 4 or 5 abilities. (4) Cure (5) Toss out an ascension every now and then. No, no, no. You're welcome ” A bot could do that I like to actually maximize my effectiveness, not minimize my chances of staying awake