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Old 10-23-2012, 08:30 PM   #1
Orthureon

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I am not sure who envisioned that it would be a good idea to FORCE players to choose one tree or the other with the new Prestige progression.

In my opinion it is  a horrible idea, simple as that. If this is the way it is to remain, people might as well play WoW, Rift, Aion etc. Because freedom of choice is the main reason most still play this game. However, when you allow a player to truly customize their character without too many artificial restraints - such as this one - they will continue to play for that experience alone.

I am a person that split specs all the time, I don't always want the very endline on something, sometimes I just want bits and pieces from different trees to mold the character in the fashion that I want.

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Old 10-23-2012, 08:44 PM   #2
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I agree. 

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Old 10-23-2012, 08:58 PM   #3
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I agree too. They got rid of forced trees earlier - why are they bringing them back. NO FORCED AA Trees.

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Old 10-23-2012, 09:03 PM   #4
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The worst part of this, in my opinion, is the change to the requirements to put points in the frist blob of each tree. Currently, on live, you put 6 pts in the first 4 and you have access to both the first blobs. On beta, theyv'e changed it that EACH blob requires 6 pts... so to get the second starter (as many current live builds do) will require us to waste 6 points to fill out the first line.

This change implies that the first blob on each tree is SIX POINTS better then anything we can spend lower down on each tree. That seems rather excessive to me.

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Old 10-23-2012, 10:34 PM   #5
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I believe it was mentioned that you can do exactly what you used to do with AA by splitting between the trees once you get to lvl 94 and 20% (40%?) to 95... it will mean that you have to give up one of the other options on the bottom but you can still do it, just have to wait until longer...

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Old 10-23-2012, 10:48 PM   #6
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Autheas wrote:

I believe it was mentioned that you can do exactly what you used to do with AA by splitting between the trees once you get to lvl 94 and 20% (40%?) to 95... it will mean that you have to give up one of the other options on the bottom but you can still do it, just have to wait until longer...

at 95 you can get both new abilities, you just can't get all the upgrades for those abilities, don't think you can get much of the center ones either.

AA points for classes in the past never had much of a choice. There was the best choice and everything else. then eventually you had access to so many points you could get every remotely good choice and then some. What EQ2 had was the 'illusion' of choice and usually when splitting a lot was the best option, its the opposite of the what the designers intended.

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Old 10-23-2012, 11:33 PM   #7
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I agree as well.

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Old 10-23-2012, 11:55 PM   #8
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Autheas wrote:

I believe it was mentioned that you can do exactly what you used to do with AA by splitting between the trees once you get to lvl 94 and 20% (40%?) to 95... it will mean that you have to give up one of the other options on the bottom but you can still do it, just have to wait until longer...

No, you can't. Not unless you put an extra 6 points into the intial options on the very top. That's the change that I'm objecting to. Currently with 6 points in the intial 4, I can put a point in the starter of both trees. On beta, that is not possible.. no matter what level you are. Without spending (wasting in most cases) 6 more points in the top 4 options, you cannot, ever, get the start of the other tree.

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Old 10-24-2012, 12:27 AM   #9
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I said this in the other thread, the paladin feedback thread, as the #1 thing I could ask for in the expansion.

BREAK APART THE NEW AND OLD PRESTIGE TREES. THEY'RE TOO LONG.

There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to force people to go ALL the way down the left or ALL the way down the right.

Just unlock both of the new trees after 10 points spent. That's all.

Otherwise, you're either forcing people to give up what they LIKED from the last set of prestiges, or forcing them to take something they DON'T WANT from the new prestiges. Let us mix and match so we can at least use some of the new cool mechanics, instead of getting stuck with whichever tree we already started.

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Old 10-24-2012, 02:05 AM   #10
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I agree, this tree locking is for the birds. It is completely irrational that I would enter a new expansion with LESS abilities than the day before it launched. I shouldn't lose the ability to have both Umbral Barrier and the Bolster upgrade like I currently have on Live. I don't understand why you would force us to spend 12 points on the first row when we only have 25 points to spend! That's half of the points going to weak abilities when compared to later in the trees. Yes, I understand I'd have to sacrifice the upgrades or the center points by splitting my points between the trees, but sacrificing 7 points for what used to cost 1 is just plain silly. Please fix the requiring 6 additional points to be spent in the first row before you can spend points in the opposite tree. That is just SUCH a stiff penalty for splitting points =(

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Old 10-24-2012, 06:01 AM   #11
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+1 to what everyone has said here.  Getting more points in pres lines, and then making you spend most of them on things you dont want, just to get back to what you had before is a horrible idea.

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Old 10-24-2012, 08:51 AM   #12
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Agree, Id like to put 6 pts in the first 4 and you have access to both as live now.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:04 PM   #13
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I agree. I want freedom of choice. Currently on live I've got my AAs equally put in both trees so I found it very annoying being forced to follow a path all the way to the bottom.

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Old 10-24-2012, 07:21 PM   #14
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I would hope they listen to player feedback on this one.  It is almost as bad as the Subclass trees still being locked.  There are so many wasted AA there, why would we now need to waste presitge points.

Unlock Prestige Trees, Unlock Subclass Trees 2012!! SMILEY

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Old 10-24-2012, 10:45 PM   #15
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Mermut wrote:

Autheas wrote:

I believe it was mentioned that you can do exactly what you used to do with AA by splitting between the trees once you get to lvl 94 and 20% (40%?) to 95... it will mean that you have to give up one of the other options on the bottom but you can still do it, just have to wait until longer...

No, you can't. Not unless you put an extra 6 points into the intial options on the very top. That's the change that I'm objecting to. Currently with 6 points in the intial 4, I can put a point in the starter of both trees. On beta, that is not possible.. no matter what level you are. Without spending (wasting in most cases) 6 more points in the top 4 options, you cannot, ever, get the start of the other tree.

^^^ This precisely.  I put 6 in the first line, I can go down left or right.  You have to put the OTHER 6 in the first line to go down the second line . . . 

A better way would be to have us spend 6 on line one, then as soon as we spend another 6 down one line, open up the second line . . . Forcing us to have to spend 12 points in that first line is just going to alienate and frustrate people.  Especially since, as of now, I can do BOTH abilities (currently 3rd line down) but come expansion time I'm going to wake up and suddenly forget how to use one or the other.  Then be frustrated by having to waste points on abilities I don't want just to remember them both . . . 

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Old 10-25-2012, 02:33 AM   #16
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if you're going to keep the trees as they are then you need to make certain that both are balanced or what's the use of making two trees?      specially for classes that have totally different focus for each side.

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Old 10-25-2012, 04:23 AM   #17
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I'd like freedom of choice also. I'm only playing EQ2 right now because beta gives gold sub while on beta server so I can help do beta and see if I like the content enough to come back. This being changed to freedom of choice would be a huge factor on if I come back or not.

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Old 10-25-2012, 09:41 AM   #18
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I said this in the other thread, the paladin feedback thread, as the #1 thing I could ask for in the expansion.

BREAK APART THE NEW AND OLD PRESTIGE TREES. THEY'RE TOO LONG.

There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to force people to go ALL the way down the left or ALL the way down the right.

Just unlock both of the new trees after 10 points spent. That's all.

Otherwise, you're either forcing people to give up what they LIKED from the last set of prestiges, or forcing them to take something they DON'T WANT from the new prestiges. Let us mix and match so we can at least use some of the new cool mechanics, instead of getting stuck with whichever tree we already started.

+1

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Old 10-25-2012, 01:56 PM   #19
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Aside from the fact that some new prestige trees are blah least allow us to pick and choose which of the first 4 prestige abilities we would like before we decide which tree is worth it...not really sure the rational on this.

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Old 10-25-2012, 02:15 PM   #20
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I completely agree with most of the posts above. I feel like we should be allowed to do at least what we used to be able to do on (as it is on live now). forcing us to choose one or the other is gonna change a lot of how a lot of players played their toons and may be a killer for people on teh edge of wether they will continue playing or not. I am personally not looking forward to changing my whole playstyle due to this.

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Old 10-25-2012, 03:00 PM   #21
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Just unlock both of the new trees after 10 points spent. That's all.

Otherwise, you're either forcing people to give up what they LIKED from the last set of prestiges, or forcing them to take something they DON'T WANT from the new prestiges. Let us mix and match so we can at least use some of the new cool mechanics, instead of getting stuck with whichever tree we already started.

QFE

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Old 10-25-2012, 04:09 PM   #22
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I'm sure there may be some reasoning behind a new restriction like this, but taking back what you had once given is not a great way to handle things.

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Old 10-25-2012, 05:06 PM   #23
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amgx wrote:

I'm sure there may be some reasoning behind a new restriction like this, but taking back what you had once given is not a great way to handle things.

Well I am sure most of us wouldn't mind this proposed idea IF AND ONLY IF:

a) Both sides had equally valuable endlines

b) every single ability in the tree was unique and enticing.

They had a year plus (did they not???) to add new progression abilities to the classes. and they give us about 10-15 new things to choose... really???

The least they could have done was give each class a new spell or something.

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Old 10-25-2012, 07:56 PM   #24
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I said this in the other thread, the paladin feedback thread, as the #1 thing I could ask for in the expansion.

BREAK APART THE NEW AND OLD PRESTIGE TREES. THEY'RE TOO LONG.

There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to force people to go ALL the way down the left or ALL the way down the right.

Just unlock both of the new trees after 10 points spent. That's all.

Otherwise, you're either forcing people to give up what they LIKED from the last set of prestiges, or forcing them to take something they DON'T WANT from the new prestiges. Let us mix and match so we can at least use some of the new cool mechanics, instead of getting stuck with whichever tree we already started.

After logging in and seeing what it turned out like today, I have to agree with this.

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Old 10-25-2012, 08:25 PM   #25
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I'm thinking one reason is to make us choose to define a playstyle.  As a ranger do you want to be single target or aoe heavy?  The other reason is probably that this is easier to balance.  If they just opened up all the abilities to everyone now it would be a lot tougher to balance. 

Not saying I wouldn't prefer they put a bunch of cool stuff out there and let us pick around the meh, but just offering possible reasons for their thinking on this.

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Old 10-25-2012, 09:45 PM   #26
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My beef with ALL of this (and it is looking to be a game breaker if it stays) is that, as of now, and for the past SIX months, (92 came out in aprox. April-ish) I've had BOTH of the 3rd line abilities (in my case, "In Plain Sight" and "Bleedout").  So here I'll be, loving the fact I can use both of these abilities and finding them extremely useful.  I'll go to bed one day knowing them both, then one day (i.e. expansion day) I suddenly forget how to use them?  Sure I can go down one line, but I can't, for the life of me, remember how to do the other, even though I've been using it for 7 months?  Really?  That's what you're going with?

You are nerfing EVERYONE in the game that has chosen both abilities.  Seriously?  Who's master plan was this?  WHY is it there NEVER seems to be forethought into ANY of this?  Why not come out with "New Game Enhancements" every week and give and take away abilities EVERY 6 months?  Hell,  make it bi-monthly . . . bi-weekly . . . in fact, just give us a random character every time we log in with similarly statted gear . . . I liked Mortal Kombat's random character choice, let's do that here!

Okay, the above was a BIT unfair and melodramatic . . . (I've been taking overacting classes) but you get the idea.  It's frustrating beyond belief to be given abilities in one update just to be taken away from one day to the next, six months later.

I don't WANT it to "Open Up" after 10 points.  I can use both abilities NOW!  I shouldn't have to wait to level up to be able to use them again, no matter HOW you redistribute the requirements.  

Don't take abilities away in an update or expansion.

It's not like it's a game breaking bug having both abilities.  But it WILL effect my DPS, my gameplay, and my enjoyment of the game.  Rework the lines to allow for us to keep what we've already been using for the past SIX months. . . . Please . . . pretty please with sugar on top?  

Thanks.

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Old 10-25-2012, 10:28 PM   #27
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The first impression the players will have of this expansion will be negative if this goes live.  Not a good idea.

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Old 10-26-2012, 12:32 AM   #28
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Shae wrote:

The first impression the players will have of this expansion will be negative if this goes live.  Not a good idea.

During Fan Faire I was excited . . . actually excited, about this expansion.  (which hasn't happened since Sentinel's Fate).  But this will just leave me annoyed, frustrated, and feeling like there's never any forethought to any kind of progression . . . gear, raid, ability, or otherwise.

Taking abilities away from players that aren't game breaking or way too overpowered (which this isn't) just because "Well, that's how we want to design it just 'cause that's what we thought of . . . " is just . . . I can't even begin to convey how P.O.'d I will be if it goes live this way  . . . except to finally stop subscribing to every SOE game.  

At least I'll still have Fan Faire I can go to and win in the Aether Races (or whatever contest you have) to win back the money I've laid out to SOE since June of '99.  Second place was nice this year, but I got a whole LOT more money to win back from you, SOE.  Keep the high paying contests coming.

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Old 10-26-2012, 01:31 AM   #29
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The key to sales is simple ( Give the people what they want ) Or they wont buy what your selling.

 Having said that, It would be a real shame if SOE  for the first time in their history to launch a simple to use beta campaign looking for feedback and ignored the popular demand or if you will request from players alike.

This Is more than likely the most important issue with this expansion due to the fact that our unique abilities are what define our characters essentially and being forced to go down one avenue forgoing our previous choices in  our current state takes away from any chance of being unique, rather takes away from the direction the game has gone since launch and forces us to simply level up and select the AA's that SOE wants us to pick.  ( perception, but not opinion )

Having  access to new abilities but only by forgoing our current choices and not being able to modify the new aa's in much of any way if one choses to  retain what we currently have leaves us with 2 options -

( 1 ) Keep what we have now, and gain nothing much in general at all.

( 2 ) Lose what we have been given by trading our choices for new ones.

I personally like my current choices, and everyone I have spoken with generally does too and has gotten use to them. too keep them we have to forgo the new aa's and wont really be able to modify them to their fullest and that leaves a stale taste in my mouth.

I was pretty excited for new AA's and content, NOT the ability to keep my current AA's and only have viewing access to the new AA's.

I dont think ive ever been dissapointed in SOE until i tried this BETA and saw this forced AA tree BUT, im glad i saw it in beta so i can cancel my preorder sale of this expansion. Im not going to pay for something i dont want, Period.

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Old 10-26-2012, 01:43 AM   #30
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i can understand the balance aspect but the thing is that in most cases the trees aren't balanced. 

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