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Old 03-21-2012, 12:46 PM   #31
Piestro

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[email protected] wrote:

There was another reason for this flag (and we usually advertised to Test players at that time): picking Testers for early access in beta. This was done up to SF (under Kiara), lapsed for TSO & Velious but Domino made a big push for it on AoD beta and all flagged Testers go a Friend & Family access to beta.

This was for a reason that I'll put bluntly: full-time Testers are used to bugs and, when seeing a bug, will document it, try to reproduce it, find workarounds and advertise game-crashing bugs (for exemple: don't ever pay your rent until next patch or you'll crash the server). Players wanting to just have a sight of the next candy will whine and just say "game crashes it sucks". Of course it doesn't mean that all players that don't play on Test do that or that Test players never whine, it was a generic comment. In AoD beta there was a player from Nagafen who did an amazing job at testing reforging and high end mechanics. But I'm pretty sure the reason why there were so few bugs in Beastlord levelling and Freeport quests was because flagged testers made it to beta early, thanks to Domino.

Another point is that Testers are usually used to search for the quest updates without just looking at ZAM or Wikia because it's just not in yet. The number of players reaching Beta and just asking "where is X mob for Y quest?" then "can't find X mob for Y quest, can I have the loc", and then "can't find mob Z for Y quest" is incredibly high, leading some of us to just create macros and spam them all the time to cut down the questions. It's mind numbing.

I have yet to do a Beta with the EQ2 team, however Community usually can make reccomendations for inclusion. I'll keep both the Beta community and those who frequently post bugs in mind (although of course I can't make any promises).

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Old 03-21-2012, 07:13 PM   #32
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I am playing on Test Copy now for this run, but my main focus has been on Test, where I have had characters since I started playing EQ2 in 2008. It is much harder to gain any ground on Test than it is to play a copied character on Test Copy, but to me at least, Test is a real, permanent server, and Test Copy is a disposable sandbox that can be wiped as needed.

I am reconsidering my play on Test these days because I am becoming more and more convinced that SOE management does not know and does not care about the resource they have in the permanent community on Test. If you want coherent and useful bug reports and feedback, you have a far better chance of getting what you want from an experienced and knowledgable group who are committed to helping make a better game, and you get that on Test. And if you want grizzled veterans to tackle the chaos of a first-round beta, that's where you look for your shock troops.

SOE used to understand this. I remember the outrage when the EverQuest Test server was wiped in 2000. SOE got the message, and vowed never to wipe Test again. This is where the whole concept of Test Copy came from. But things have changed, and I'm not so sure the current management even remembers any more why there's a permanent Test server.

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Old 03-21-2012, 07:50 PM   #33
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If what's being done on the Test server is in fact for the benefit of all players, then there's no reason those players shouldn't be able to read about the good work being done for them; all the better for them to appreciate the process of testing, bug reporting, retesting, etc. Why would anyone want to hide something for which all of us should be appreciative?

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Old 03-21-2012, 07:51 PM   #34
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:41 PM   #35
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Pearl wrote:

If what's being done on the Test server is in fact for the benefit of all players, then there's no reason those players shouldn't be able to read about the good work being done for them; all the better for them to appreciate the process of testing, bug reporting, retesting, etc. Why would anyone want to hide something for which all of us should be appreciative?

I wouldn't say anyone wants to hide. And we could gain us a few more part-time Test players for the extra exposure. It can provide a place genuinely interested people can ask questions too.

But the truth is the vast majority of players do NOT understand the test servers, the differences between them, and what happens on those servers. Just reading some of the posts made by non-Test players in this forum since it went public proves this, there's a lot of misinformation out there, or "close but not quite the reality" information.

This leads to:

people say we're whining, without knowing how the server struggles

people say we're spoilt, or make other false statements which don't help

plus the people who will come in and troll because they're bored

all in the face of a battered community which is often pretty worn down already.

Frankly if someone is not a tester, they shouldn't be spouting off opinions about the Test servers and player-testers, and how SOE does or doesn't support them. That would be like me saying what should happen to PVPers on a PVP server - when I have no genuine interest in that activity, I've never been on the server, and I never will.

On a more productive note, since what we need is an education drive, I think a couple of stickied information threads at the top of the forum could really help.

"What this forum is for" - explain it's for testers to talk about the testing process and the servers, not for feedback, with a strong warning about bug/feedback/commenting on content posts being moved out.

"What is Test server?" - explain in detail, the patches, short notice downtimes, increased risk of the game breaking, the minor benefits (xp bonus, bookworm, master drops). Maybe also what it's really like to play there, the population, broker usage, crafting for others.

"What is TestCopy server?" - explain in detail, buffers and usual locations, getting wiped, the copy commands.

And other suggestions, folks?

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Old 03-22-2012, 04:15 PM   #36
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Soresha wrote:

Pearl wrote:

If what's being done on the Test server is in fact for the benefit of all players, then there's no reason those players shouldn't be able to read about the good work being done for them; all the better for them to appreciate the process of testing, bug reporting, retesting, etc. Why would anyone want to hide something for which all of us should be appreciative?

I wouldn't say anyone wants to hide. And we could gain us a few more part-time Test players for the extra exposure. It can provide a place genuinely interested people can ask questions too.

But the truth is the vast majority of players do NOT understand the test servers, the differences between them, and what happens on those servers. Just reading some of the posts made by non-Test players in this forum since it went public proves this, there's a lot of misinformation out there, or "close but not quite the reality" information.

This leads to:

people say we're whining, without knowing how the server struggles

people say we're spoilt, or make other false statements which don't help

plus the people who will come in and troll because they're bored

all in the face of a battered community which is often pretty worn down already.

Frankly if someone is not a tester, they shouldn't be spouting off opinions about the Test servers and player-testers, and how SOE does or doesn't support them. That would be like me saying what should happen to PVPers on a PVP server - when I have no genuine interest in that activity, I've never been on the server, and I never will.

On a more productive note, since what we need is an education drive, I think a couple of stickied information threads at the top of the forum could really help.

"What this forum is for" - explain it's for testers to talk about the testing process and the servers, not for feedback, with a strong warning about bug/feedback/commenting on content posts being moved out.

"What is Test server?" - explain in detail, the patches, short notice downtimes, increased risk of the game breaking, the minor benefits (xp bonus, bookworm, master drops). Maybe also what it's really like to play there, the population, broker usage, crafting for others.

"What is TestCopy server?" - explain in detail, buffers and usual locations, getting wiped, the copy commands.

And other suggestions, folks?

Good idea!

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Old 03-22-2012, 05:01 PM   #37
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Nice plan. One flaw. Nobody reads stickied threads at the top of forums ...
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:21 AM   #38
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Piestro wrote:

I'm making the assumption that some players have chosen to go to test rather than test_copy. I have not been monitoring the server populations extensively. People who have played on test before, etc. might be more likely to go to test than test_copy. 

Some folks might mistakenly roll a character on Test, but when they find out they have to level it up the hard way they will leave for Test-Copy instead. A few folks will stay because they didn't know such a community existed, but I think most will not.

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Old 03-25-2012, 04:28 AM   #39
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Wow, I'm not a tester, I don't think you realize how much they do. Really. 20 to 30 mins a week? Do you have any idea how much time volunteers (testers, guides etc) spend on behalf of the community? It's a heck of a lot more than that. I've never been a tester, but I know how much time people who contribute put in. 

It really must be becoming a skeleton crew there. SMILEY

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Old 03-28-2012, 04:20 PM   #40
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has anyone noticed that the plain nek pine trees that u can craft is not visable when placing them in the test as well as the live servers as well since the update this week? sigh.............

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Old 03-28-2012, 04:41 PM   #41
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[email protected] wrote:

has anyone noticed that the plain nek pine trees that u can craft is not visable when placing them in the test as well as the live servers as well since the update this week? sigh.............

Oh you are so cuteSMILEY  Yes and frostfell trees too are MiASMILEY   not fully visibleSMILEY

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Old 03-28-2012, 08:35 PM   #42
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Piestro wrote:

Mermut wrote:

Piestro wrote:

I do agree that the better way of handling this would be for me to have posted and let people know that the change was going to happen. Unfortunately I have severe time constraints, and chose not to do so because that would have delayed making these changes for at least a week or two. For that you have my apologies.

I felt, after consulting with a number of parties, that this was the better choice. Currently there are many people playing on test, because of the GU 63 content. This represents an opportunity to recruit and retain people who are currently testing, and allowing them to see the community that exists on tests increases the potential of this opportunity. While we may respectfully disagree on the reasons for this choice, no disrespect to the test community was intended.

Quick question.. when you say lots of people playing on test, do you mean test or test_copy? They are two very distinct servers with a different community. Test_copy has a very transient population where people tend not to feel much attachment because the server can be wiped at any time. On test, people tend to play there regularly and the only way to get a toon there is to make it there and level it up manually, no buffers, no gear merchants, etc. I agree that the game would be well served by a bigger population on test (not test_copy) but all the push seems to be for players to go to test_copy.

I'm making the assumption that some players have chosen to go to test rather than test_copy. I have not been monitoring the server populations extensively. People who have played on test before, etc. might be more likely to go to test than test_copy. 

No offense intended but you know how the saying goes about assuming anything, right?Now I know I'm not a solid member of the Test Community. I have deep respect for the people that have made their homes there because they are dedicated & committed to testing content all the time. It is thanks to the Test Community that I can enjoy all the aspects of crafting & solo adventuring on my avatars. There are few people who come to the game & make the decision to reside on Test and faithfully treat their world as both a testing zone as well as their home. If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have happily cozied up to Test & never looked at the rest of the servers.I agree with Mermut that TestCopy is a highly fluctuating population. It might usually consist more of those who might want to see what the end-game is going to be like or what new recipes crafters like myself would drool over, rather than people who will honestly & truthfully /bug and /feedback problems or issues. It's also a throw-away server that gets wiped out of existance when its usefulness is done. Even the MotD on Live servers push TestCopy instead of appealing to the people what are willing to start from scratch and work their way up on the more permanant Test server. I'm on the side that Testers should have a piece of the forums to themselves where they are not subject to the trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people that populate the general forums. I also believe that the use of the polling mails would have given a clearer picture of the people that make up the Test Community. That would have been good use of a delay of a week or two.It wasn't broke, so why try to force a change on something that otherwise was working for that community?Just my two coppers worth.

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Old 04-04-2012, 01:13 AM   #43
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[email protected] wrote:

 I'm on the side that Testers should have a piece of the forums to themselves where they are not subject to the trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people that populate the general forums.

Is this how inhabitants of the Test server see the rest of the EQ2 population?

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Old 04-04-2012, 05:00 AM   #44
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Pearl wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

 I'm on the side that Testers should have a piece of the forums to themselves where they are not subject to the trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people that populate the general forums.

Is this how inhabitants of the Test server see the rest of the EQ2 population?

Absolutely not, but " trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people" are around too and when we are trying to sort out confusing bugs and server specific issues sorting through their posts can definately slow the process.

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Old 04-07-2012, 06:00 AM   #45
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Cloudrat wrote:

Pearl wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

 I'm on the side that Testers should have a piece of the forums to themselves where they are not subject to the trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people that populate the general forums.

Is this how inhabitants of the Test server see the rest of the EQ2 population?

Absolutely not, but " trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people" are around too and when we are trying to sort out confusing bugs and server specific issues sorting through their posts can definately slow the process.

Thanks Cloudrat. At least we know that you do not hold the same regard for the EQ2 population, as Ebonchyld.Given the concerns expressed by some testers of waning population, the denizens of the Test server should be thankful for the added exposure. It may inspire some sorely needed new blood. This can only bode well for Test, and EQ2.

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Old 04-07-2012, 10:12 AM   #46
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[email protected] wrote:

Cloudrat wrote:

Pearl wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

 I'm on the side that Testers should have a piece of the forums to themselves where they are not subject to the trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people that populate the general forums.

Is this how inhabitants of the Test server see the rest of the EQ2 population?

Absolutely not, but " trolls, whiners & otherwise clueless people" are around too and when we are trying to sort out confusing bugs and server specific issues sorting through their posts can definately slow the process.

Thanks Cloudrat. At least we know that you do not hold the same regard for the EQ2 population, as Ebonchyld.Given the concerns expressed by some testers of waning population, the denizens of the Test server should be thankful for the added exposure. It may inspire some sorely needed new blood. This can only bode well for Test, and EQ2.

The Testers should be thankful? I'm pretty sure it's SOE and the playerbase that should be thankful for Testers who dedicate hours per week with detailed bug reports in exchange for nothing.

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Old 04-07-2012, 01:17 PM   #47
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feldon30 wrote:

The Testers should be thankful? I'm pretty sure it's SOE and the playerbase that should be thankful for Testers who dedicate hours per week with detailed bug reports in exchange for nothing.

Yes, they should.The exposure may inspire some new people, with a genuine interest to help test, to join the Test Server. More genuine testers would likely result in more successful outcomes from Test Server.If testers successfuly identifying and aiding in the resolution of bugs, is the driving desire of those who play upon test, they should be thankful for the added exposure, because it aids the cause they seek. The test server otherwise remaining out of sight, out of mind, and not really talked about, will do nothing to solve the population issues testers have commented on.

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Old 04-07-2012, 02:18 PM   #48
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:55 PM   #49
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If I had a nickel for every time I saw a newcomer in Test chat (or 1-9, or Crafting, on Test Server) who wanted to know where the buffers were, and had to be re-directed to Test_Copy server...

... I could probably buy a lifetime gold membership with the accumulated cash. 

I have encouraged people to come to Test ever since I learned how to get there.

============================================

A few years ago, when I learned how to reach Test server, the community was thriving. While it remained a distinctly lower population than the live server where I also play, there were usually people around. If one did a /who all ... one often saw around 50 players serverwide.

Something must have happened during the year when I was so ill that I didn't even manage to log into the game often enough to get all the holiday recipes, because now Test server seems to have become a ghost town.

During recent months, when I log in, if I do a /who all ... it's usually fewer than 20 people on the entire server.

One side-effect of the echoing emptiness is that my own playtime has shifted to more on Live and less on Test. It's just not as much fun when there's almost nobody else around, at all. I used to spend about half of my playing time on Live, and half on Test. Lately, I might get over to Test once a week (though I did make a point of putting in some extra time to test this latest GU.)

============================================

Would new recruits be good for the Test community? Yes, if they're serious about testing and trying to improve Norrath... instead of looking for a free ride or lots of "PL" assistance.

Unfortunately, most of what I see in Test chats are people wanting to buff a toon to level 90, get some sneak previews, and then run back to Live to plan strategies on how to get server discoveries.

============================================

Testing does work a bit differently from general Live playing. It takes a different kind of dedication, and as Cloudrat's signature says - it takes Patience. Not just a little bit of patience, either, but a lot.

I have seen times where /bug reports and /feedback resulted in changes that were improvements. Other times, to my disappointment, I see the very same things I reported showing up in the Live version. It happens, sometimes things go astray or get overlooked.

============================================

I do grow weary of the people who seem to think Test Server players owe them. Technically, the people whose job it is to catch bugs are SOE's paid QA employees. We Test Server players just help them "proofread" ... and we do that without any monetary compensation.

I've been tempted to make up some rather pointed hotkeys that encourage the complainers to go do the testing for themselves... but so far, I've resisted that temptation. *points to her nicely polished rent-a-halo and tries to look good*

============================================

So while opening this forum to the public, which is the first time I had access, could possibly encourage more people to come test... my concern is that making it completely public could backfire if the clueless complaining-flaming types choose to use it as an opportunity to harass.

We are fellow-players, not SOE employees. We don't need that kind of hassle from the immature folks who think being rude makes them somebody. It doesn't, and that kind of harassment grows old very quickly.

============================================

It also hurts when in webcasts Brasse and Smokejumper talk of Test_Copy situations and call those "Test" ... as if the real Test server didn't exist. Contrary to their assumptions, I'm *more* likely to take risks when I copy my Live or Test characters to Test_Copy, and explore.

Why? Because if I do something that messes up a copied character, it's not permanent. The real character still exists safely on a real server, and those multiple deaths, or faction hits, or lost house items are only impacting the clone. It's a great opportunity to go wild with one's gameplay, and look for ways that things might break, and not have to worry about messing up a permanent character.

But then, it seems I think like a Tester and not like expected.

============================================

Oops, seems I've rambled a bit more long-winded than I'd planned, but I hope my meandering ramblings help someone to better understand a different perspective.

Thanks for your time, and have a good day. SMILEY

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Old 04-17-2012, 01:55 AM   #50
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I can see a lot confussion here, myself especially included.  Maybe it's the new launch pad or other changes in the forums that Piestro has stated. Is the new launch pad option of "public-test" different than just the original posters "Test" for starters?

I admit I am one of those Transient testers, that works more than full time with a family of 6 kids (which more than half of us play EQ2), where my mains Raid on a tri-weekly basis while running a couple guilds with my good friends - busy! LOL

This game has been one of my few personal accessible escapes, and while I can't/don't want to dedicate myself to trying to fix the game I enjoy, I am still very passionate about it.  Would rather focus on the fun and enjoyment versus the mechanics.  But when I can still like to try and help share "an" opinion.

I do play test here and there, and while I may have only about 40 hours in on GU 63 over the last couple weeks, I've still put in over 10 feedbacks and bugs.  Some silly cosmetics, some I think are huge like the lack of faction understanding.

I think Test should be the last place for flamers and they should be reported for trolling, but some of us transient commoners may have good insight SMILEY I don't think most of us would be here if we didn't care and wanted to help OUR game be the best it can be.

I do appreciate all of you testers for all that you do, and the awesome Dev team that has created and maintaned, grown and try to do your best to create something that has life and a continous path forward.

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Old 04-17-2012, 02:15 AM   #51
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Although I would see your point HUGE if you were all paid a certain wage instead of paying to play (I don't know how it might work on a different private test server? If it's different now than when I was doing test years ago?) and bound by NDA rules like many other upcoming games where people are given certain tasks daily to run through zones many times etc and are expected to give quantitative results and feedback as a matter of accountability in order to keep your job.  That's a totally different thing, it's your job not a game since you are an employee not a customer.  Again, not sure what the real story is...

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Old 04-17-2012, 05:03 AM   #52
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Citadelli wrote:

Although I would see your point HUGE if you were all paid a certain wage instead of paying to play (I don't know how it might work on a different private test server? If it's different now than when I was doing test years ago?) and bound by NDA rules like many other upcoming games where people are given certain tasks daily to run through zones many times etc and are expected to give quantitative results and feedback as a matter of accountability in order to keep your job.  That's a totally different thing, it's your job not a game since you are an employee not a customer.  Again, not sure what the real story is...

Cita

The problem I keep encountering is that dissatisfied customers are blaming me (and other Test Server players) if any bugs slilp past "Public" testing.

We who play on Test are *not* paid QA. Fixing bugs is *not* our job.

All we can do is help point out bugs that QA missed, the same as any other player.

However, other players who never even visit Test server seem to think that they can harass us and accuse us of "not doing our job" whenever they don't like something that happens in the game.

We are unprotected targets, when that sort of thing begins happening. I've mostly quit telling people on Live servers that I also play on Test for that reason.

SOE Employees have some useful tools to deal with people who get rude that we, as players, do not. Frankly, I don't think anybody gets paid enough to have to tolerate the level of abuse that sometimes gets dished out, but at least employees have methods and tools in place to help keep a lid on unreasonable people (this would include dialing the extension / sending an email to the people that suspend and ban the accounts of the unreasonable).

All we Test *players* can do is protest to SOE whens someone else starts being unreasonable.

You like to play in peace, and not get harassed for playing a bit differently from someone else, yes?

Well... we like the same thing! SMILEY

This is the reason why people are wanting Test Server to have its own semi-private forums, where we can discuss things specific to Test server without having to worry about people who don't ever come to Test server misunderstanding what we are saying / doing, and getting their "rude" on.

I hope that helps? SMILEY

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Old 04-18-2012, 12:47 PM   #53
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:38 PM   #54
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:34 PM   #57
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:40 PM   #58
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:37 PM   #59
Purr

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I think it couldn't be more clear which direction our beloved Test Server and it's dedicated Forum are going. When did we actually have MODs having to step in to "move posts" BEFORE the forum became open to the non-testers?

'nuff said.

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Old 05-14-2012, 11:18 PM   #60
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Hugs PURR!

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