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Old 11-07-2012, 05:41 PM   #61
Neiloch

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shannontroester wrote:

you're assuming BLs actually bring something to the raid other then dps? hmm, they don't have a hate transfer, the pet they currently use doesn't have a group buff, they do have a buff that gives the group 2.5 pot (awesome)? and they usually never run in spirtual stance

This is you marginalizing beastlord utility thus marginalizing the gap between their utility and other scouts. Specifically (for this thread) painting a picture that rangers aren't that far behind in utility. You are making contradictory posts. You can't both say beastlords utility/spiritual 'usefulness is low at best' when they have some of the most utility out of DPS scouts, then proceed to say the class who actually has the least utility also has very little utility. that's like saying $10,000 and $1 are both small amounts of money when in fact there is a huge difference.

Never mind other peoples posts, how about you read what YOU wrote. Not sure why you thought I was disputing or even discussing your first posts since these quote things outline pretty clearly what I'm addressing.

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Old 11-07-2012, 06:15 PM   #62
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ZUES wrote:

. Rangers know that if a push doesn't go in before CoE launch, they will not be raiding this entire expansion.

That is an exaggeration at best.

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Old 11-07-2012, 06:38 PM   #63
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shannontroester wrote:

Rangers=t1 dps scouts, if you believe it or not that's your own thing but it's the truth, maybe you just know bad rangers

This point is completely false, Rangers with similar gear are easily outparsed by Beastlords, Wizards and Sins. Look at nearly any parse from top end raid guilds.

The truth is, people that play Rangers need to try harder (or be a better player) than the average XYZ class to even come close to their parse. Plus they are the only class completely reliant on buying ammunition to be able to parse. Without it they CANNOT use more than 70% of their abilities, what other class can make that claim? Then to top it off they bring no utility to a group.

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Old 11-07-2012, 07:06 PM   #64
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[email protected] wrote:

shannontroester wrote:

you're assuming BLs actually bring something to the raid other then dps? hmm, they don't have a hate transfer, the pet they currently use doesn't have a group buff, they do have a buff that gives the group 2.5 pot (awesome)? and they usually never run in spirtual stance

This is you marginalizing beastlord utility thus marginalizing the gap between their utility and other scouts. Specifically (for this thread) painting a picture that rangers aren't that far behind in utility. You are making contradictory posts. You can't both say beastlords utility/spiritual 'usefulness is low at best' when they have some of the most utility out of DPS scouts, then proceed to say the class who actually has the least utility also has very little utility. that's like saying $10,000 and $1 are both small amounts of money when in fact there is a huge difference.

Never mind other peoples posts, how about you read what YOU wrote. Not sure why you thought I was disputing or even discussing your first posts since these quote things outline pretty clearly what I'm addressing.

I never said they have some of the most utility out of the dps scouts (as they don't unless you run in spirit, which no one does) again, you should learn to read, there is no contrast there unless you draw a contrasting conclusion on your own terms. Also I wouldn't say they have the least utility (never said) but what they do bring is little usefulness as compared to the others, just stop being bad, BLs don't bring that much to the raid other then their 2.5 pot to the group, so give rangers something along those lines is all tbh

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Old 11-07-2012, 07:07 PM   #65
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Orthureon wrote:

shannontroester wrote:

Rangers=t1 dps scouts, if you believe it or not that's your own thing but it's the truth, maybe you just know bad rangers

This point is completely false, Rangers with similar gear are easily outparsed by Beastlords, Wizards and Sins. Look at nearly any parse from top end raid guilds.

The truth is, people that play Rangers need to try harder (or be a better player) than the average XYZ class to even come close to their parse. Plus they are the only class completely reliant on buying ammunition to be able to parse. Without it they CANNOT use more than 70% of their abilities, what other class can make that claim? Then to top it off they bring no utility to a group.

hmm, no how about you look at the parses? afaik, WW top wizzy has not broke 1 mil on targin yet (koncept) he usually does mid 900k, as well as Tywxx also does mid 900k on targin, wow amazing isn't it?

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Old 11-07-2012, 07:40 PM   #66
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For the love of god shannon shut up; the thread isn't about rangers DPS it is about their usefulness compared to other t1 classes. Yes Rangers are t1 dps if the stars align, but that is it. We bring nothing else to the table like other T1 DPS classes do however little value you put on that, that is the case. This entire thread is about rangers need to bring something to the table besides DPS, if they (the devs) are do not want to give us a useful buff and/or debuff then they need to bump ranger dps to t0 to make them relevant at the table. That is what this thread is about, so stop saying ranger are t1, most of us know we are if we get the buffs.

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Old 11-07-2012, 08:18 PM   #67
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Koncept has done 1.3 million and if Twyxx had my group he'd do the same.

Basically put a 3% max hp debuff on Snipe, then.

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Old 11-07-2012, 08:23 PM   #68
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[email protected] wrote:

For the love of god shannon shut up; the thread isn't about rangers DPS it is about their usefulness compared to other t1 classes. Yes Rangers are t1 dps if the stars align, but that is it. We bring nothing else to the table like other T1 DPS classes do however little value you put on that, that is the case. This entire thread is about rangers need to bring something to the table besides DPS, if they (the devs) are do not want to give us a useful buff and/or debuff then they need to bump ranger dps to t0 to make them relevant at the table. That is what this thread is about, so stop saying ranger are t1, most of us know we are if we get the buffs.

maybe you should, Idk, read the posts in the thread? that is what I was discussing, along with the the factors that they are along with scouts in every other way, by giving examples? I mean if you learn to read something for once...

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Old 11-07-2012, 08:38 PM   #69
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Koncept has done 1.3 million and if Twyxx had my group he'd do the same.

Basically put a 3% max hp debuff on Snipe, then.

I would prefer not to have a hp debuff its so overdone ATM. But I guess beggers can't be picky?

I'ed rather go with the debuf Neiloch describes. While actuly being the same thing it wouldn't be precived(sp) as being the same.

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Old 11-07-2012, 08:40 PM   #70
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shannontroester wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

For the love of god shannon shut up; the thread isn't about rangers DPS it is about their usefulness compared to other t1 classes. Yes Rangers are t1 dps if the stars align, but that is it. We bring nothing else to the table like other T1 DPS classes do however little value you put on that, that is the case. This entire thread is about rangers need to bring something to the table besides DPS, if they (the devs) are do not want to give us a useful buff and/or debuff then they need to bump ranger dps to t0 to make them relevant at the table. That is what this thread is about, so stop saying ranger are t1, most of us know we are if we get the buffs.

maybe you should, Idk, read the posts in the thread? that is what I was discussing, along with the the factors that they are along with scouts in every other way, by giving examples? I mean if you learn to read something for once...

OMG rangers are t1 dps. OMG thats all that comes out of you mouth. You posted about rangers needed love, but the rest of you post is OMG OMG rangers are t1 dps. GO troll another thread.

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Old 11-07-2012, 08:51 PM   #71
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you really haven't been reading much I can tell....or not reading fully..., I also never use omg

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Old 11-07-2012, 09:18 PM   #72
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Koncept has done 1.3 million and if Twyxx had my group he'd do the same.

Your group isn't as good for me as it is for you, but with bruiser, inq, mystic, illy, dirge, bolster and a piece of avatar gear I could hit 1.3. 

Buffratx and Koncept both outparse me consistently. They typically have better setups/buffs (and should), but are also more skilled players than I am.  They're just on another level...or cheat good.    So keep that in mind when comparing classes by using their parses.

I've been in three guilds over the last year and a half and have played with a lot of excellent dps'ers.  If all you're comparing is dps, rangers are fine.  I think beastlord dps potential is a tiny bit above assassins which is a tiny bit above rangers (due to a few cast times and tight range restrictions on sweet spot).  Rangers just typically don't get the same groups/buffs as the other two so it seems like a bigger difference.

But yeah, this thread isn't about ranger dps.  It's about balancing the overall value of rangers vs beastlords/assassins.  There's still a week.  Let's see what Xelgad has in mind.

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Old 11-07-2012, 09:25 PM   #73
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Ranger

Rangers rejoice! Ranged multi-attack, flurry and ae auto-attack no longer consumes extra ammo.

 

Very nice, thank you!

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:16 AM   #74
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shannontroester wrote:

maybe you should, Idk, read the posts in the thread? that is what I was discussing, along with the the factors that they are along with scouts in every other way, by giving examples? I mean if you learn to read something for once...

Once again, you are talking to a top ranger in a WW1st guild, and examples of parses from the top rangers in EQ2 are being presented to you.

However you have no interest in contributing anything to this argument except "you don't know what you're talking about" and "ranger DPS is fine" with nothing to back it up.

Until you present some credentials, you are nobody and your opinions have zero weight.

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:28 AM   #75
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feldon30 wrote:

shannontroester wrote:

maybe you should, Idk, read the posts in the thread? that is what I was discussing, along with the the factors that they are along with scouts in every other way, by giving examples? I mean if you learn to read something for once...

Once again, you are talking to a top ranger in a WW1st guild, and examples of parses from the top rangers in EQ2 are being presented to you.

However you have no interest in contributing anything to this argument except "you don't know what you're talking about" and "ranger DPS is fine" with nothing to back it up.

Until you present some credentials, you are nobody and your opinions have zero weight.

you don't look over things to well do you? cause I was never talking to Tywxx (the ranger in equil), and also both buffrat and tywxx backed it up that it was infact, true?

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:36 AM   #76
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Twyxx wrote:

Ranger

Rangers rejoice! Ranged multi-attack, flurry and ae auto-attack no longer consumes extra ammo.

 

Very nice, thank you!

and the cries of a thousand rangers were silenced! 

  for a about a minute  lol

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:39 AM   #77
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Koncept has done 1.3 million and if Twyxx had my group he'd do the same.

Basically put a 3% max hp debuff on Snipe, then.

  the main thing you get that twix won't is reuse and that's what needs to be given to every scout just like mages. 

 along with all procs need to fixed to work uniformly.    procs being able to be affected by potency twice while others aren't is BS becuause not everyone can have that class with those broken procs unless you double/triple up on classes and again this is bad for balance.

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:45 AM   #78
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Twyxx wrote:

Ranger

Rangers rejoice! Ranged multi-attack, flurry and ae auto-attack no longer consumes extra ammo.

 

Very nice, thank you!

Agreed, thank you very much for the kindness SMILEY Trust me its not lost on us rangers and we greatly appreciate it!

....now only if we could get minimun range removed eh lol.

But honestly thank you guys again, this was nice to see. SMILEY

Respectfully,

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Old 11-08-2012, 01:08 AM   #79
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Twyxx wrote:

Ranger

Rangers rejoice! Ranged multi-attack, flurry and ae auto-attack no longer consumes extra ammo.

 

Very nice, thank you!

Based on tests this change affects all classes not just rangers.  Or at least also affects monks.

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Old 11-08-2012, 01:17 AM   #80
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yea, this is a wonderful change.   i can finally start using bone arrows on all my alts not just my raid main and my alt ranger lol

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Old 11-08-2012, 05:55 AM   #81
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shannon is starting to remind me of solistcey lol

These arrow changes are awesome. As well as hidden shot. These were fundamental problems rangers have had to deal with for quite a while and I am glad they are being fixed like this instead of trying to do it by piling on more AA/prestige. Now if we can just get some utility rangers and more importantly other players/classes see as valuable we will be doing pretty (gosh darn) good imo.

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Old 11-08-2012, 06:01 PM   #82
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This isnt really a ranger buff.  Sure, it makes playing one cheaper, and less annoying, but still doesnt address utility/desirability.  Thanks though, between this and mass arrow production, Ill have to spend less time pressing 456, or 123 on the keypad.

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Old 11-08-2012, 09:09 PM   #83
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crazyeyes321 wrote:

This isnt really a ranger buff.  Sure, it makes playing one cheaper, and less annoying, but still doesnt address utility/desirability. 

The ammo conservation means nothing if we never play our rangers. This is a good change and I appreciate it. But lets face it, without some added utility we will be sitting on the sidelines playing Bobby Beuche!

"Meester raid leader dude.... ummm... my momma dont wantz me to play no fooseball!"

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