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Old 09-12-2007, 01:26 PM   #61
Mildavyn

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I'll agree with most experienced, and with my mad trolling skills I'll agree with one of the most well known... but just last week you were telling me how incompetant I was. Now suddenly I'm a pro? What's going on here?
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Old 09-12-2007, 01:27 PM   #62
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Interesting OP, very bitter in tone and plainly exaggerating. He did it wrong though so no wonder he's bitter. If one wants to compete at every lvl in this game as a fresh player you have to do it right. And you need a guild that does it right. I wouldn't recommend it.New players having a hard time...I started eq2 pvp as a complete eq2 noob. I was going to be a casual player on a pvp server and had heard that leveling was easy. So the game should suit me well. Having played a few games before (only pvp) I knew I was going to do ok in this game. Well, I didn't do ok. I'd attack blue players with orange health from stealth and they'd turn around and kill me dead. OMG! Twinks are powerful in this game! What did I do? Did I twink myself out, harvest rares and buy masters? Level up a tradeskiller? Of course not!! I leveled my main toon to 70. I found some quest/equipment info site on internet, bought app2's and adept1's, and just continued leveling using quested or treasured gear without any real trouble. Solo. I got my first mastercrafted piece of equipment at lvl 70! But the game was fun just the same (it is a fun game to level in, especially EoF) and I'd fill my role in a group when I had time to join one. If I wanted pvp during lower levels I'd go look for greens. I had fun.Now you say: what's the fun with being "inferior"? I'll forgive the question since you're a newbie. Think about it! Why would you want to be competetive in t2-t3, hell even in t6? I never understood that. The highest level is where its at in every game I've played and eq2 is no exception. Sure I've got two twinks now but who cares if I beat a noob or even other twinks. When you beat the toon someone put the _majority_ of their game time into, on the other hand, then you can feel good about yourself. If you're a new player and follow the guides: lock levels, harvest rares, tradskill etc, then sure, you'll put up a fight but imo your just missing out on a fun game. There are 24 diverse classes to play with (and against) that each have an additional 100AAs at their disposal (or a few less in my case) for customizing their char! It is great. Really. There are dungeons and quests at lvl 70 too, usually a tad bit more interesting than blackburrow to boot. There's a story line to the world that you'll just not discover if you lock at lvl 22. And when you're there at lvl 70, start to learn the game and you'll see that you *can* compete even if you don't equip raid drops. With most classes you'll do just fine and have fun in solo and group pvp most of the time. Take home message: dump the "pvp-for-newbies" guides, just accept that your subpar for a while and lvl to 70. That's how you have fun in this game during both low and high levels.

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Old 09-12-2007, 01:36 PM   #63
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Just started playing EQ2 myself and decided to roll on Nagafen.  Level 28 guardian in less than a week, been killed about 10 times and have 16ish kills.  I've also leveled up my alchemy to 26 in this time.  Don't have master crafted gear, only have about 15 AA, haven't level locked once.Whats the big deal with being ganked?  You don't lose xp, you can generally choose to rez in 3-4 different spots, you get immunity...I mean if any of you leveled in WoW back when it came out on a pvp server the ganking was far worse in say STV when a lvl 60 would show up and could corpse camp you until you decided to spirit rez.  (though if SOE removed level restrictions on pvp I bet you'd see a heck of a lot less twinking SMILEY)I rolled here because I have no interest in easy mode games, I enjoy both PVE and PVP, but how exciting is PVE when there is no reason to watch your back?Admittedly I don't solo much on a guardian, but this is an MMO, if you can't make friends go play a single player game.  There ARE ways to avoid ganking but honestly I find myself taking the easy way out less and less because it's just not as much fun.  Even as a lowly non twinked guardian that couldn't solo pvp his way out of a paper bag when I'm rolling with my friends (also non twinked) we certainly do come up against twinked groups and sometimes win.  Its not impossible, it just takes some strategy and not having completely crap gear.In short, people that start on a pvp server (and the game itself) thats been online for a long time HAVE to expect that people are going to have more experience, better gear, and yes have an advantage.  Otherwise why not just play an FPS?  If you're having problems stop reading the twink guides and out level the gankers.  Don't spend all of your time in heavily contested pvp areas...what do you expect?  For them to NOT PVP on a PVP server?(oh and p.s. taunts working in pvp may just be the best pvp feature in any game on the market)
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Old 09-12-2007, 01:49 PM   #64
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[email protected] wrote:
I'll agree with most experienced, and with my mad trolling skills I'll agree with one of the most well known... but just last week you were telling me how incompetant I was. Now suddenly I'm a pro? What's going on here?

im not sure what your talking about. if i said something to offend you i didnt mean to and im sorry, seriously. i look at forums as a place to debate issues. if i said something in the wrong tone again i apologize but i never meant im more competent than anyone on this forum or i have never ever meant to make anyone feel that way...

there are some issues in this game that strike a nerve with me yes i admit, but i try to see everyones opinion and i dont want you think im an a-hole because im not. once again if i offend anyone i dont mean to.

edit; i just like to add that i dont have a personal vendetta against anyone here and im never to big of a man to say im sorry to anyone if they have been offended.

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Old 09-12-2007, 02:03 PM   #65
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Read it...To me it is an over exaggerated pile of poop.Many folks feel that the "world of PvP" should be 1v1, 3v3, 6v6 fights of evenly matched opponents.  No one having an advantage.  [Removed for Content]...I want a PvP game where it is ~dangerous~.  Where a very well geared toon that someone has invested a lot of time into can pop out of nowhere and hand you a revive screen.  I want a PvP game where I could do the same if I am also willing to make the time sink and in game coin investment.I want a PvP world where epic battles can rage where a ~Hero~ (someone who has invested massive time and effort into his toon) wades like a demon through a mass of lesser geared enemies, slaughtering all before him till he is eventually swarmed by the masses or another ~Hero~ steps forth battle him.I want a PvP world where if you are caught out in the open by a full group of the enemy, you die...   ...fast, unless you somehow manage to slip away.  I want even something as mundane as traveling to a dungeon or harvesting to be an adventure, a risk.If I wanted a gaming world where I could feel safe, where I could avoid ~aggro~, where I only had to fight ^^^'s if I pulled them, I would have stayed on PvE.The author of that little story seemed to want a world of safety.  A world where all the fights he ran across where even conned.  Where he could PvP in peace.  He didn't find it.  He found a world full of heros and villains, a world where there are the strong and the weak, a world where people killed you because they could; and he didn't like it.  So he wrote a gross exaggeration on why he left and how it had nothing to do with the fact that he wanted something stupid.  A fantasy game without heroic battles, without the weak to defend, a world where everyone was the same for the sole reason that then he feels it would be fair.Other than some of the not-so-smart mechanics that make people not want to fight (perma-immunity, titles gained by farming fame and running, broken resists) this is a great game.Sure some people won't like it.  But if you read their posts from a different perspective, you will see it is usually because the couldn't handle not winning, because they were killed (in their opinion) too easily.I for one would hate a PvP world without danger...
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:12 PM   #66
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[email protected] wrote:
Boruk wrote:
Also [I cannot control my vocabulary] is up with nobody knowing or using the LFG function? Its a fantastic system that craps over WoW or Daoc version but nobody here uses it, maybe it reflects the mentality of T2 level range ?
You can't use the LFG tool on PvP servers because you have to be set to Anonymous, or spies from the opposite side can log in, do a /who, and find out exactly where you and your group are so they can come and kill you. Not to mention that most content in 10-19 is entirely solo. Also that very very few people are in that level range to actually level up. Also on neither of my characters did I lock, nor did I do more than around 3 heritage quests each. Yet, by 69, I still had 100 achievement points. The whole notion that you need to lock to get a good amount of achievement points is an antiquated one. Just don't grind, quest instead.
People don't use the LFG tool on PvE servers either.  I guess it's just too much trouble to click on a couple of radio boxes and type a short sentence describing what you'd like to do.... 
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:19 PM   #67
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I read it, and while some parts of it are exaggerated, he wasn't lying.

Exaggerations aside, you really only have two options to deal with the level locking.  You can lock yourself and take the time max out AA and harvest so you can afford mastercrafted gear and CAs all while getting ganked during the process.  Or, you can forget about locking and race past T2 to avoid the lockers...getting ganked during the process.

Either way, its the ganking part that detracts a lot of new players.  And its not that people can't take dying.  It the fact that there is a person behind their computer, so thirsty for kills, that they will ruin your gaming experience.  Who wants to play with that type of playerbase?

There are a few people who show class.  I've seen people /bow after a fight, /wave if they run past me while I'm on their recent list, and had a guy 8 levels above me /bonk me on the head just to let me know he could physically dominate me but chose not to.

People will say if you can't handle just leave.  The problem is that's exactly what people are doing.

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Old 09-12-2007, 02:40 PM   #68
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There are two reasons why EQ2 pvp is the way it is:1. There is a huge difference between a heroic ^^^ mob and the solo v that we see running all over the place. Quested and dropped gear is mostly based around killing these solo down arrow mobs. This is basically the only gear new players have access to in there first 20 or levels. Mechanically EQ2 is designed around a tiered system of solo -> group -> raid where each step of progression trivializes the previous tiers. This makes sence in PvE but not PvP where players can take there raid gear to pwn anyone who has never grouped or raided.2. The second reason is the existance of pvp gear and the way it is aquired. PvP gear was put in place so that players were not forced to raid to be competitive. PvP gear is introduced at level 20 and is as good or better than raid drops. The only way to get this uber pvp gear is to build up faction by killing other players which ultimately leads to the griefing. The more a player griefs the better he will become at griefing because of the way it is mechanically rewarded by the system. This is where the OP fails to understand the game. EQ2 is not about crafting if you truelly want to be competitive. So even someone who spent weeks leveling up crafters and farming dozens of plat is still going to get pwned by the griefing twinks who have a full set of pvp gear. That is the real deal in pvp here. Crafting alone is not going to cut it on these servers. It took me over a year to be able to put 1 and 2 together. First I level locked and skilled up crafters so I could get going and make it to 70 in a competitive way. When my main hit 70 I realized I forgot to grind faction for the real gear so back I went with a new set of twinks. When darklight woods first came out I got hundreds of kills in the first week. I didn't do this because I wanted to but because I had to. Players who know what they have to do know they have to get that first 17k faction or 700 kills done before they leave T2.
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:42 PM   #69
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1) Reduce the faction required to obtain PvP gear in the 20's , needing to get 20, 0000 status points , just encourages ganking , level locking and farming lowbies for status.

2) PvP kills should give expierience , and the faction requierd to obtain PvP gear should be in a range , so that if 65% of a playes curent expierience total have come from PvP kills than he would be eligable to obtain the gear the moment he obtains the level requierd to use it. So .. If you lock your level from level 10 and just PvP for expierience then as you hit the minimum required level for each piece of PvP gear you will have the facation to use it.  

3) While level locked you are also AA locked and title locked. You put your character in lockdown .. no discovery AA , no expierience , no title change.  You can loose infamy not gain.

4)Put in PvP rules such as "when being attacked by 2 seperate groups no infamy cant be lost" , when outnumbered by more than a 2:1 ratio no infamy lost. infamy cant be gained in a raid.

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Old 09-12-2007, 03:25 PM   #70
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[email protected] wrote:
Read it...To me it is an over exaggerated pile of poop.Many folks feel that the "world of PvP" should be 1v1, 3v3, 6v6 fights of evenly matched opponents.  No one having an advantage.  [I cannot control my vocabulary]...I want a PvP game where it is ~dangerous~.  Where a very well geared toon that someone has invested a lot of time into can pop out of nowhere and hand you a revive screen.  I want a PvP game where I could do the same if I am also willing to make the time sink and in game coin investment.I want a PvP world where epic battles can rage where a ~Hero~ (someone who has invested massive time and effort into his toon) wades like a demon through a mass of lesser geared enemies, slaughtering all before him till he is eventually swarmed by the masses or another ~Hero~ steps forth battle him.I want a PvP world where if you are caught out in the open by a full group of the enemy, you die...   ...fast, unless you somehow manage to slip away.  I want even something as mundane as traveling to a dungeon or harvesting to be an adventure, a risk.If I wanted a gaming world where I could feel safe, where I could avoid ~aggro~, where I only had to fight ^^^'s if I pulled them, I would have stayed on PvE.The author of that little story seemed to want a world of safety.  A world where all the fights he ran across where even conned.  Where he could PvP in peace.  He didn't find it.  He found a world full of heros and villains, a world where there are the strong and the weak, a world where people killed you because they could; and he didn't like it.  So he wrote a gross exaggeration on why he left and how it had nothing to do with the fact that he wanted something stupid.  A fantasy game without heroic battles, without the weak to defend, a world where everyone was the same for the sole reason that then he feels it would be fair.Other than some of the not-so-smart mechanics that make people not want to fight (perma-immunity, titles gained by farming fame and running, broken resists) this is a great game.Sure some people won't like it.  But if you read their posts from a different perspective, you will see it is usually because the couldn't handle not winning, because they were killed (in their opinion) too easily.I for one would hate a PvP world without danger...
AAHHHH you scare me  SMILEY/starts to rethink his stance on the PVP issuses.......................Nope still feel the same but you made me think about it.
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Old 09-12-2007, 03:49 PM   #71
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Boruk wrote:

Ok mates Ive read the entire thread and feel strongly enoughto give my point of view on this topic.

First things first, I am a NEW player been playing for about 3 weeks ( feels like a year ). Bit of background first. I have played MMO's for about 7 years. Ive been a MT in all the old plaine raids in EQ1 then moved to Daoc were i was a fairly successful MT in rvr. My troll warrior used to fair well even though warriors used to be below stealthers. I surived these games most proberbly being in the Aussie Infantry were you learn when things dont go your way, learn and adapt.

 Now this is my 3 weeks in EQ2. First thing I read up on the boards and guides, My first mistake was Venekor. I AM a Roleplayer ( heck it is a fantasy GAME ) I enjoy trying to emerse myself in the lore of the world im in. I DAOC we had RPPVP realms which actually were good and had a huge population. The only reason i left Venekor was due to population my time was way to low. Being an Aussie it was brutal playing on a low pop server on off peak. So I moved to nafgen. Keep in mind ( because i read the guides ) I Had already leveled 3 crafters to 20. a Armorer/Scholar/ and Craftsmen on venkeor but i really wanted to pvp lol.

So I started again, this time I rolled a fury as a main named Wayslayer. He is now a tailor and im in the process of leveling a scholar to make my adepts. Money ive found isnt really an issue here as ive made about 10 plat just buy selling rares im not using or making master crafted gear as I skill up. Ive also made Wayslayer a transmuter to help with cash flow. Now I dont think Im an idiot and go into this blindly BUT as soon as i ding 10 I got ganked, I shruged it off ( Im going to level to 13 before I lock, I want SoW).

One thing ive noticed is the community ive found here, specially in the 10-19 is insanley childish. Makes those that play WoW ( played it for 6 months got bored about how basic the game is ) look like fricken Universatiy scholars hehe. So ive decided to turn off the 10-19 channel and just talk to those i meet in game ( which is made the game better for me ). Also [I cannot control my vocabulary] is up with nobody knowing or using the LFG function? Its a fantastic system that craps over WoW or Daoc version but nobody here uses it, maybe it reflects the mentality of T2 level range ?

Now am I going to keep playing this game ? Yup till atleast Age of Conan. Why you might ask ? Well firstly im enjoying the crafting system also and even though the pvp system used here you can tell is an afterthought as this is a PVE game I found the mechanics quite easy. Yes i lose but I understand i have no chance of winning, There is no SKILL in t2 Pvp unless there equal geared enemys fighting. lol I laugh in RL and shake my head at the attitude of some in this thread who think they have REAL power by ganking lowbies and forcing them to cancel! What a friken stupied thing to say hehe. Thats like a crack addict saying "I pwned the dealer because i smoke my pipe so much hes run out of stock and out of bussiness!".

I dont see a future in the pvp servers here. Seriously an unbiased view here. If you guys keep on culling the new blood here for the POWA! all your doing is making your future pvp fights less and less, Imagine if you will all the level 2 destroyers/slayers are all that are left. you walk into DLW and you will see them all huging the zone wall.

Now in saying what ive said, when you finally get a even fight, the games a blast. Im just treating this game as a hardcore pve game. Even though im on a pvp server I like the fact I have to gear up before i venture out ( more realistic ) and look over my shoulder, adds excitment. And to all those lockers I have this to say. I admire the effort thats gone into you playstyle /salute. I even think your belief in that only easy fights are the only fights you KNOW you will win is understandable considering your mindset BUT understand this...you have no power over me. You can gank me 100 times and all ill do is laugh, why ? because all you are to me is a pve mob SMILEY<img src=" />.

That needs to change if this games pvp servers to survive imo.....and one way going about that is to fix the zone hoping.

Anyway Cheers mates

I am pretty much in line with this.  But what I would like to add is I am amazed by the number of people who actually believe a spanking in t2 actually gets my goat.  Most losses in t2 are no reflection on personal skill.  You are either gangbanged and dead in a few seconds or completely out-twinked or have a bad match up. When I made my guy I fully intended to die alot in t2 pvp because I mostly wanted to aa hunt. I know my guy isn't worth much of anything.  I just shake my head and go on with my business.  Sometimes I purposely waste people's time by making them chase me.  What astounds me is that when I tell people I these guys are idiots for wasting their time they think I am complaining or something.  No genuinely think they are idiots.  They actually think a loss in t2 means jack to someone who hasn't even bothered to twink?  Seriously what kind of [Removed for Content] can't do the simple math.  Unless the twink makes a mistake you will lose.  It says nothing about you.  And the deaths themselves are a free teleport more often than not.  I have literally let people kill me faster because it has saved me travel time in CL.  And yet you get these silly people that believe they are super duper and anyone speaking against them is a whiner.   I mean I have gone to DLW put myself on auto-run and been killed over and over by the same group.  I went and got a drink and they think they are cool because they are wasting their time getting no money, no fame, no faction when they could be actually killing someone worth something.  They certainly aren't even causing me any real trouble because I know they are idiots, that is what auto-run is for to show them just how stupid they are.  I am already knew going into DLW that  I would die alot my persistance will get me something, I turn in a quest I get aa.  Their persistance does nothing, they can't force me out of the zone and every second they spend on me is a second they could spend on someone worth fame and who would actually drop something. And yet they still do this obviously pointless crap, because they simply can't believe that I am not a little child who throws a temper tantrum everyone some one kills me in PvP.And these people actually believe they have an impact or something.  Hah like someone else said go play Eve Online.  In EQ2 I can just go somewhere else like splitpaw if I like.   There is no control in EQ2 there is only chaos.  CL is safer for a Qeynos than Antonica is.  A team of FP gankers in SH can make the whole place is unuseable for both sides for anything more than a slaughter fest.  There is no way for Q's to dominate or control SH unless FP's are worried about titles.This is the real problem with EQ2 pvp it is mostly a slaughterfest whose outcome is basically known ahead of time.   Whoopy some gank squad using track came up found me using no brainpower at all since track automates and negates all terrain tactical elements then killed me using no brainpower or skill at all.  Its a simple calculation.  I play on nagafen for the extra danger, I am under no illusions that the pvp itself really has much value outside the very occasional good fight with someone who has the balls to actually give me a good fight.  I don't care that groups are more powerful.  The real problem is that 80% of pvp in EQ2 is a completely worthless slaughterfest ganking.  If you were an outside observer it would be like watching a boxing match where one guy stood stuck his out and and the other guy just hit him and knocked him out.  If you were in the crowd you would boo.  It feels good for the guy who wins but for everyone else it just a big "meh".The other thing that amazes me is the number of just plain ridculous "solutions" people give and will defend to the death.  Like crafting for a month.  This is a game.  Your suggestion to do something they don't like is not good or practical or success oriented.  I have an idea if you don't like seeing your character die you could um poke a pen through both your eyes, then you will never have to see it again.  That is a "solution" to the problem, its just incredibly stupid as well.  This is all you get in EQ2, crappy "solutions" filled with pointless downsides and if you don't want to waste your time on pointless downsides you are a whiner.I have no problem with the cut throat nature of EQ2 pvp.  In fact I think its a strength.  But people need to get their heads out of their backsides and stop making excuses.  The way it currently works is not fun for many people it is simply frustrating because you are basically helpless until you twink out and even the twinks cannot solve or control anything, they just don't have to completely bend over and take it.  No amount of twinks can ever make SH usable for Pve if some FPs decide to hunt there for kicks.  Two decent FP groups can cause any PvE'er groups to get wiped over and over.  If there were no tracking it might take more groups but the principle will still be the same.  There are no solutions to anything there are just people who are the Cchaff and the people who are  slaughtering others and the very occasional conflict between the slaughters.Sometimes its exhilirating for the most part its just kind of sad.  There is no constructive side to EQ2 PvP, it is merely chaos and internecine warfare with no purpose and at many points a large portion of people will be killed and have absolutely no way to stop it in anyway.  They can't hide because of track, they can't run because CC is out of control,  if they aren't twinked they have no chance in the fight.  For these people their most efficient course of action is to die as fast as possible.   Think about that, the pvp in this game is implemented in such a way that dying is more efficient than trying to live for a non-twink.  Wanting to dominate is fine, but from the standpoint of the game there are two sides to the equation.  Right now the equation is one side is close to helpless and therefore either despairing or bored and the other side obessively oppressing them for a power fix.  Does anyone in their right mind believe this is sustainable?  You can say hey craft for a month and that can work, but do you really expect a large number of people to do that?  Do you really think a large number of people are going to craft and harvest just so that they can spend 80% of their time slaughtering people who have no chance and 20% of their time fighting other twinks?  If you do I have a bridge to sell you...Slaughter-fests are always bad for PvP.  People need to feel like they at least have chance.  Otherwise what is the point?  And eventually the slaughter gets boring even.  EQ2 at least has a decently healthy twink community so that the slaughters can at least get some good fights.  But it still drives people away.  Many people do not want to twink and only a fool engages in a hopeless struggle.  That people actually believe the only option for not twinking is to be either foolish or forced into a hopeless situation is an ok is an indication of just how disfunctional the pvp community here is. If you are not making a concerted effort to twink and run in a dedicated pvp group you should simply avoid certain places and try to die as soon as possible when someone attacks you and plan out your activities accordingly.  Join the chaos or become a victim of it (and this will happen quickly on Nagafen), you have no other option besides a stand alone instance.If  I have a guy solo in Ant and 4 +2 lvl Champions on mounts ride straight at me from nowhere and kill me in 2 seconds I don't bat an eyelash.  I don't even bother looking at their names.  Nothing I could do.  They are just doing a patrol of Ant and using track.  Really you could macro the whole thing its so brainless.  I just accept that I will randomly die.  Nothing about them is worth thinking about they are so automated they might as well be NPC.  Track make them brainless and number+equipment make them need do almost nothing in the fight.  Its not even worth consideration.  And that is easily 50% of EQ2 pvp not worth even bothering to consider, there is absolutely nothing interesting.  It has been nullified.  Hey some guys are over ther?  Hey hide in this cool hole the designers thought to put in the zone.  Oh what there is a glowing yellow trail leading directly to me?  Oh right, why am I bothering doing anything at all?  Maybe I will run?  Oh no they have horses and 50% of them are furies and can just root me forever and the other half are scouts so I will be helpless and stunned the whole time.  Oh right why am I bothering?  Maybe I will fight and at least try to kill one them?  Oh right they do twice and much damage and take half as much damage compared to me I have no chance unless they are the worst players on the server.  Why am I bothering?You may say you are solo you should lose to a group of well geared people.  That is fine,  that makes some sense.  But that is not the issue.  The issue is if you are solo in Antonica you ARE going to die, no question.  Its an absolute certaintly between tracking, CC, and overwhelming force you are screwed.  There is nothing you can do.  That does not encourage people to play a game.  It is not healthy.Look the problem is not that something like soloing a non-twink is dangerous.  That would be fine.  In fact that is kind of the point of doing it on a PvP server.  The point is that it is hopeless.  There is no razor's edge because you have no chance at all.  Seriously you must understand on some level there is no excitement when defeat is inevitable.  In EQ2 it is not a question of if but when.  It is literally a waste of my time to try not to die.  My time is spent more efficiently by taking whatever the most direct route is to whereever I am going.  In this case there is no danger in EQ2 PvP,  there is just random inevitable inescapble death.  There is no oops I made a mistake they found me.  They would have have to be drooling morons to not find you.  There is no point in trying not to die.  Just shrug and keep going.  I mean really this just sad.  It is so lacking that it actually doesn't even evoke a feeling of danger or excitement.  When a gank squad kills my guy going to the spire to get to CL it barely even evokes a grunt from me.  I hit revive and immediately start running for the spires again.  It is essentially meaningless.  More often than not there is no danger or even anything interesting just a small amount inconvience I have already factored into things.  I usually just tap my foot at them so I can get on with what  I was doing.  Afterall, why bother doing anything? Anyone with half a brain knows the answer.  There is no reason.  You have no recourse.  You are fodder.  Do you really expect people to accept being fodder?  And what is the solution?  Become a twink and level lock like everyone else?  Yeah hey that is great!  What a stellar idea oh hold on that invalidates half of the entire game design and content, maybe there is a problem?  Nooooooooooo impossible!Half of the PvP population's entire concept of the status of the game is predicated on the idea that people get all mad and competitive when they die.  This is true for some, for many it is not true.  For many they understand that there was really nothing they could do.  Because that is how EQ2 PvP works.  In a number of situations you are basically screwed.  They just shrug and say oh that is kind of weak, what crappy pvp.  If they say that in chat they are called whiners even though their assessment is mathematically provably true.  They are called whiners because if they were really strong then they would just twink out and run with a gank squad.  But that does not address the criticism, even though these people believe it does.  The fact is that EQ2 PvP outside of the Twink/ganksquad arena is not rough.  for the most part it is just boring.  It is so stupid and optionless that it is trivial. I started on Nagafen the second month it was created.   I left and came back.  I have seen the change.  I have seen how the people have settled into the tiers.  A large number of people have left.  Mostly the people left are simply making excuses and living with bad solutions.  They are tired of hearing how the solutions are bad and shout down anyone who mentions the obvious flaws.
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Old 09-12-2007, 03:50 PM   #72
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[email protected] wrote:
Read it...To me it is an over exaggerated pile of poop.Many folks feel that the "world of PvP" should be 1v1, 3v3, 6v6 fights of evenly matched opponents.  No one having an advantage.  [I cannot control my vocabulary]...I want a PvP game where it is ~dangerous~.  Where a very well geared toon that someone has invested a lot of time into can pop out of nowhere and hand you a revive screen.  I want a PvP game where I could do the same if I am also willing to make the time sink and in game coin investment.I want a PvP world where epic battles can rage where a ~Hero~ (someone who has invested massive time and effort into his toon) wades like a demon through a mass of lesser geared enemies, slaughtering all before him till he is eventually swarmed by the masses or another ~Hero~ steps forth battle him.I want a PvP world where if you are caught out in the open by a full group of the enemy, you die...   ...fast, unless you somehow manage to slip away.  I want even something as mundane as traveling to a dungeon or harvesting to be an adventure, a risk.If I wanted a gaming world where I could feel safe, where I could avoid ~aggro~, where I only had to fight ^^^'s if I pulled them, I would have stayed on PvE.The author of that little story seemed to want a world of safety.  A world where all the fights he ran across where even conned.  Where he could PvP in peace.  He didn't find it.  He found a world full of heros and villains, a world where there are the strong and the weak, a world where people killed you because they could; and he didn't like it.  So he wrote a gross exaggeration on why he left and how it had nothing to do with the fact that he wanted something stupid.  A fantasy game without heroic battles, without the weak to defend, a world where everyone was the same for the sole reason that then he feels it would be fair.Other than some of the not-so-smart mechanics that make people not want to fight (perma-immunity, titles gained by farming fame and running, broken resists) this is a great game.Sure some people won't like it.  But if you read their posts from a different perspective, you will see it is usually because the couldn't handle not winning, because they were killed (in their opinion) too easily.I for one would hate a PvP world without danger...

/agree 100%

I also like the learning curve. A big reason I left WoW was the mass of dumba$$es that invaded my comfy little MMO world. Let the newbs squirm imo, the ones that stay are worthy.

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Old 09-12-2007, 04:15 PM   #73
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baasfvaer wrote:
Boruk wrote:

Ok mates Ive read the entire thread and feel strongly enoughto give my point of view on this topic.

First things first, I am a NEW player been playing for about 3 weeks ( feels like a year ). Bit of background first. I have played MMO's for about 7 years. Ive been a MT in all the old plaine raids in EQ1 then moved to Daoc were i was a fairly successful MT in rvr. My troll warrior used to fair well even though warriors used to be below stealthers. I surived these games most proberbly being in the Aussie Infantry were you learn when things dont go your way, learn and adapt.

 Now this is my 3 weeks in EQ2. First thing I read up on the boards and guides, My first mistake was Venekor. I AM a Roleplayer ( heck it is a fantasy GAME ) I enjoy trying to emerse myself in the lore of the world im in. I DAOC we had RPPVP realms which actually were good and had a huge population. The only reason i left Venekor was due to population my time was way to low. Being an Aussie it was brutal playing on a low pop server on off peak. So I moved to nafgen. Keep in mind ( because i read the guides ) I Had already leveled 3 crafters to 20. a Armorer/Scholar/ and Craftsmen on venkeor but i really wanted to pvp lol.

So I started again, this time I rolled a fury as a main named Wayslayer. He is now a tailor and im in the process of leveling a scholar to make my adepts. Money ive found isnt really an issue here as ive made about 10 plat just buy selling rares im not using or making master crafted gear as I skill up. Ive also made Wayslayer a transmuter to help with cash flow. Now I dont think Im an idiot and go into this blindly BUT as soon as i ding 10 I got ganked, I shruged it off ( Im going to level to 13 before I lock, I want SoW).

One thing ive noticed is the community ive found here, specially in the 10-19 is insanley childish. Makes those that play WoW ( played it for 6 months got bored about how basic the game is ) look like fricken Universatiy scholars hehe. So ive decided to turn off the 10-19 channel and just talk to those i meet in game ( which is made the game better for me ). Also [I cannot control my vocabulary] is up with nobody knowing or using the LFG function? Its a fantastic system that craps over WoW or Daoc version but nobody here uses it, maybe it reflects the mentality of T2 level range ?

Now am I going to keep playing this game ? Yup till atleast Age of Conan. Why you might ask ? Well firstly im enjoying the crafting system also and even though the pvp system used here you can tell is an afterthought as this is a PVE game I found the mechanics quite easy. Yes i lose but I understand i have no chance of winning, There is no SKILL in t2 Pvp unless there equal geared enemys fighting. lol I laugh in RL and shake my head at the attitude of some in this thread who think they have REAL power by ganking lowbies and forcing them to cancel! What a friken stupied thing to say hehe. Thats like a crack addict saying "I pwned the dealer because i smoke my pipe so much hes run out of stock and out of bussiness!".

I dont see a future in the pvp servers here. Seriously an unbiased view here. If you guys keep on culling the new blood here for the POWA! all your doing is making your future pvp fights less and less, Imagine if you will all the level 2 destroyers/slayers are all that are left. you walk into DLW and you will see them all huging the zone wall.

Now in saying what ive said, when you finally get a even fight, the games a blast. Im just treating this game as a hardcore pve game. Even though im on a pvp server I like the fact I have to gear up before i venture out ( more realistic ) and look over my shoulder, adds excitment. And to all those lockers I have this to say. I admire the effort thats gone into you playstyle /salute. I even think your belief in that only easy fights are the only fights you KNOW you will win is understandable considering your mindset BUT understand this...you have no power over me. You can gank me 100 times and all ill do is laugh, why ? because all you are to me is a pve mob SMILEY<img src=">.

That needs to change if this games pvp servers to survive imo.....and one way going about that is to fix the zone hoping.

Anyway Cheers mates

I am pretty much in line with this.  But what I would like to add is I am amazed by the number of people who actually believe a spanking in t2 actually gets my goat.  Most losses in t2 are no reflection on personal skill.  You are either gangbanged and dead in a few seconds or completely out-twinked or have a bad match up. When I made my guy I fully intended to die alot in t2 pvp because I mostly wanted to aa hunt. I know my guy isn't worth much of anything.  I just shake my head and go on with my business.  Sometimes I purposely waste people's time by making them chase me.  What astounds me is that when I tell people I these guys are idiots for wasting their time they think I am complaining or something.  No genuinely think they are idiots.  They actually think a loss in t2 means jack to someone who hasn't even bothered to twink?  Seriously what kind of [Removed for Content] can't do the simple math.  Unless the twink makes a mistake you will lose.  It says nothing about you.  And the deaths themselves are a free teleport more often than not.  I have literally let people kill me faster because it has saved me travel time in CL.  And yet you get these silly people that believe they are super duper and anyone speaking against them is a whiner.   I mean I have gone to DLW put myself on auto-run and been killed over and over by the same group.  I went and got a drink and they think they are cool because they are wasting their time getting no money, no fame, no faction when they could be actually killing someone worth something.  They certainly aren't even causing me any real trouble because I know they are idiots, that is what auto-run is for to show them just how stupid they are.  I am already knew going into DLW that  I would die alot my persistance will get me something, I turn in a quest I get aa.  Their persistance does nothing, they can't force me out of the zone and every second they spend on me is a second they could spend on someone worth fame and who would actually drop something. And yet they still do this obviously pointless crap, because they simply can't believe that I am not a little child who throws a temper tantrum everyone some one kills me in PvP.And these people actually believe they have an impact or something.  Hah like someone else said go play Eve Online.  In EQ2 I can just go somewhere else like splitpaw if I like.   There is no control in EQ2 there is only chaos.  CL is safer for a Qeynos than Antonica is.  A team of FP gankers in SH can make the whole place is unuseable for both sides for anything more than a slaughter fest.  There is no way for Q's to dominate or control SH unless FP's are worried about titles.This is the real problem with EQ2 pvp it is mostly a slaughterfest whose outcome is basically known ahead of time.   Whoopy some gank squad using track came up found me using no brainpower at all since track automates and negates all terrain tactical elements then killed me using no brainpower or skill at all.  Its a simple calculation.  I play on nagafen for the extra danger, I am under no illusions that the pvp itself really has much value outside the very occasional good fight with someone who has the balls to actually give me a good fight.  I don't care that groups are more powerful.  The real problem is that 80% of pvp in EQ2 is a completely worthless slaughterfest ganking.  If you were an outside observer it would be like watching a boxing match where one guy stood stuck his out and and the other guy just hit him and knocked him out.  If you were in the crowd you would boo.  It feels good for the guy who wins but for everyone else it just a big "meh".The other thing that amazes me is the number of just plain ridculous "solutions" people give and will defend to the death.  Like crafting for a month.  This is a game.  Your suggestion to do something they don't like is not good or practical or success oriented.  I have an idea if you don't like seeing your character die you could um poke a pen through both your eyes, then you will never have to see it again.  That is a "solution" to the problem, its just incredibly stupid as well.  This is all you get in EQ2, crappy "solutions" filled with pointless downsides and if you don't want to waste your time on pointless downsides you are a whiner.I have no problem with the cut throat nature of EQ2 pvp.  In fact I think its a strength.  But people need to get their heads out of their backsides and stop making excuses.  The way it currently works is not fun for many people it is simply frustrating because you are basically helpless until you twink out and even the twinks cannot solve or control anything, they just don't have to completely bend over and take it.  No amount of twinks can ever make SH usable for Pve if some FPs decide to hunt there for kicks.  Two decent FP groups can cause any PvE'er groups to get wiped over and over.  If there were no tracking it might take more groups but the principle will still be the same.  There are no solutions to anything there are just people who are the Cchaff and the people who are  slaughtering others and the very occasional conflict between the slaughters.Sometimes its exhilirating for the most part its just kind of sad.  There is no constructive side to EQ2 PvP, it is merely chaos and internecine warfare with no purpose and at many points a large portion of people will be killed and have absolutely no way to stop it in anyway.  They can't hide because of track, they can't run because CC is out of control,  if they aren't twinked they have no chance in the fight.  For these people their most efficient course of action is to die as fast as possible.   Think about that, the pvp in this game is implemented in such a way that dying is more efficient than trying to live for a non-twink.  Wanting to dominate is fine, but from the standpoint of the game there are two sides to the equation.  Right now the equation is one side is close to helpless and therefore either despairing or bored and the other side obessively oppressing them for a power fix.  Does anyone in their right mind believe this is sustainable?  You can say hey craft for a month and that can work, but do you really expect a large number of people to do that?  Do you really think a large number of people are going to craft and harvest just so that they can spend 80% of their time slaughtering people who have no chance and 20% of their time fighting other twinks?  If you do I have a bridge to sell you...Slaughter-fests are always bad for PvP.  People need to feel like they at least have chance.  Otherwise what is the point?  And eventually the slaughter gets boring even.  EQ2 at least has a decently healthy twink community so that the slaughters can at least get some good fights.  But it still drives people away.  Many people do not want to twink and only a fool engages in a hopeless struggle.  That people actually believe the only option for not twinking is to be either foolish or forced into a hopeless situation is an ok is an indication of just how disfunctional the pvp community here is. If you are not making a concerted effort to twink and run in a dedicated pvp group you should simply avoid certain places and try to die as soon as possible when someone attacks you and plan out your activities accordingly.  Join the chaos or become a victim of it (and this will happen quickly on Nagafen), you have no other option besides a stand alone instance.If  I have a guy solo in Ant and 4 +2 lvl Champions on mounts ride straight at me from nowhere and kill me in 2 seconds I don't bat an eyelash.  I don't even bother looking at their names.  Nothing I could do.  They are just doing a patrol of Ant and using track.  Really you could macro the whole thing its so brainless.  I just accept that I will randomly die.  Nothing about them is worth thinking about they are so automated they might as well be NPC.  Track make them brainless and number+equipment make them need do almost nothing in the fight.  Its not even worth consideration.  And that is easily 50% of EQ2 pvp not worth even bothering to consider, there is absolutely nothing interesting.  It has been nullified.  Hey some guys are over ther?  Hey hide in this cool hole the designers thought to put in the zone.  Oh what there is a glowing yellow trail leading directly to me?  Oh right, why am I bothering doing anything at all?  Maybe I will run?  Oh no they have horses and 50% of them are furies and can just root me forever and the other half are scouts so I will be helpless and stunned the whole time.  Oh right why am I bothering?  Maybe I will fight and at least try to kill one them?  Oh right they do twice and much damage and take half as much damage compared to me I have no chance unless they are the worst players on the server.  Why am I bothering?You may say you are solo you should lose to a group of well geared people.  That is fine,  that makes some sense.  But that is not the issue.  The issue is if you are solo in Antonica you ARE going to die, no question.  Its an absolute certaintly between tracking, CC, and overwhelming force you are screwed.  There is nothing you can do.  That does not encourage people to play a game.  It is not healthy.Look the problem is not that something like soloing a non-twink is dangerous.  That would be fine.  In fact that is kind of the point of doing it on a PvP server.  The point is that it is hopeless.  There is no razor's edge because you have no chance at all.  Seriously you must understand on some level there is no excitement when defeat is inevitable.  In EQ2 it is not a question of if but when.  It is literally a waste of my time to try not to die.  My time is spent more efficiently by taking whatever the most direct route is to whereever I am going.  In this case there is no danger in EQ2 PvP,  there is just random inevitable inescapble death.  There is no oops I made a mistake they found me.  They would have have to be drooling morons to not find you.  There is no point in trying not to die.  Just shrug and keep going.  I mean really this just sad.  It is so lacking that it actually doesn't even evoke a feeling of danger or excitement.  When a gank squad kills my guy going to the spire to get to CL it barely even evokes a grunt from me.  I hit revive and immediately start running for the spires again.  It is essentially meaningless.  More often than not there is no danger or even anything interesting just a small amount inconvience I have already factored into things.  I usually just tap my foot at them so I can get on with what  I was doing.  Afterall, why bother doing anything? Anyone with half a brain knows the answer.  There is no reason.  You have no recourse.  You are fodder.  Do you really expect people to accept being fodder?  And what is the solution?  Become a twink and level lock like everyone else?  Yeah hey that is great!  What a stellar idea oh hold on that invalidates half of the entire game design and content, maybe there is a problem?  Nooooooooooo impossible!Half of the PvP population's entire concept of the status of the game is predicated on the idea that people get all mad and competitive when they die.  This is true for some, for many it is not true.  For many they understand that there was really nothing they could do.  Because that is how EQ2 PvP works.  In a number of situations you are basically screwed.  They just shrug and say oh that is kind of weak, what crappy pvp.  If they say that in chat they are called whiners even though their assessment is mathematically provably true.  They are called whiners because if they were really strong then they would just twink out and run with a gank squad.  But that does not address the criticism, even though these people believe it does.  The fact is that EQ2 PvP outside of the Twink/ganksquad arena is not rough.  for the most part it is just boring.  It is so stupid and optionless that it is trivial. I started on Nagafen the second month it was created.   I left and came back.  I have seen the change.  I have seen how the people have settled into the tiers.  A large number of people have left.  Mostly the people left are simply making excuses and living with bad solutions.  They are tired of hearing how the solutions are bad and shout down anyone who mentions the obvious flaws.
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Old 09-12-2007, 04:23 PM   #74
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baasfvaer wrote:
Boruk wrote:

Ok mates Ive read the entire thread and feel strongly enoughto give my point of view on this topic.

First things first, I am a NEW player been playing for about 3 weeks ( feels like a year ). Bit of background first. I have played MMO's for about 7 years. Ive been a MT in all the old plaine raids in EQ1 then moved to Daoc were i was a fairly successful MT in rvr. My troll warrior used to fair well even though warriors used to be below stealthers. I surived these games most proberbly being in the Aussie Infantry were you learn when things dont go your way, learn and adapt.

 Now this is my 3 weeks in EQ2. First thing I read up on the boards and guides, My first mistake was Venekor. I AM a Roleplayer ( heck it is a fantasy GAME ) I enjoy trying to emerse myself in the lore of the world im in. I DAOC we had RPPVP realms which actually were good and had a huge population. The only reason i left Venekor was due to population my time was way to low. Being an Aussie it was brutal playing on a low pop server on off peak. So I moved to nafgen. Keep in mind ( because i read the guides ) I Had already leveled 3 crafters to 20. a Armorer/Scholar/ and Craftsmen on venkeor but i really wanted to pvp lol.

So I started again, this time I rolled a fury as a main named Wayslayer. He is now a tailor and im in the process of leveling a scholar to make my adepts. Money ive found isnt really an issue here as ive made about 10 plat just buy selling rares im not using or making master crafted gear as I skill up. Ive also made Wayslayer a transmuter to help with cash flow. Now I dont think Im an idiot and go into this blindly BUT as soon as i ding 10 I got ganked, I shruged it off ( Im going to level to 13 before I lock, I want SoW).

One thing ive noticed is the community ive found here, specially in the 10-19 is insanley childish. Makes those that play WoW ( played it for 6 months got bored about how basic the game is ) look like fricken Universatiy scholars hehe. So ive decided to turn off the 10-19 channel and just talk to those i meet in game ( which is made the game better for me ). Also [I cannot control my vocabulary] is up with nobody knowing or using the LFG function? Its a fantastic system that craps over WoW or Daoc version but nobody here uses it, maybe it reflects the mentality of T2 level range ?

Now am I going to keep playing this game ? Yup till atleast Age of Conan. Why you might ask ? Well firstly im enjoying the crafting system also and even though the pvp system used here you can tell is an afterthought as this is a PVE game I found the mechanics quite easy. Yes i lose but I understand i have no chance of winning, There is no SKILL in t2 Pvp unless there equal geared enemys fighting. lol I laugh in RL and shake my head at the attitude of some in this thread who think they have REAL power by ganking lowbies and forcing them to cancel! What a friken stupied thing to say hehe. Thats like a crack addict saying "I pwned the dealer because i smoke my pipe so much hes run out of stock and out of bussiness!".

I dont see a future in the pvp servers here. Seriously an unbiased view here. If you guys keep on culling the new blood here for the POWA! all your doing is making your future pvp fights less and less, Imagine if you will all the level 2 destroyers/slayers are all that are left. you walk into DLW and you will see them all huging the zone wall.

Now in saying what ive said, when you finally get a even fight, the games a blast. Im just treating this game as a hardcore pve game. Even though im on a pvp server I like the fact I have to gear up before i venture out ( more realistic ) and look over my shoulder, adds excitment. And to all those lockers I have this to say. I admire the effort thats gone into you playstyle /salute. I even think your belief in that only easy fights are the only fights you KNOW you will win is understandable considering your mindset BUT understand this...you have no power over me. You can gank me 100 times and all ill do is laugh, why ? because all you are to me is a pve mob SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />.

That needs to change if this games pvp servers to survive imo.....and one way going about that is to fix the zone hoping.

Anyway Cheers mates

I am pretty much in line with this.  But what I would like to add is I am amazed by the number of people who actually believe a spanking in t2 actually gets my goat.  Most losses in t2 are no reflection on personal skill.  You are either gangbanged and dead in a few seconds or completely out-twinked or have a bad match up. When I made my guy I fully intended to die alot in t2 pvp because I mostly wanted to aa hunt. I know my guy isn't worth much of anything.  I just shake my head and go on with my business.  Sometimes I purposely waste people's time by making them chase me.  What astounds me is that when I tell people I these guys are idiots for wasting their time they think I am complaining or something.  No genuinely think they are idiots.  They actually think a loss in t2 means jack to someone who hasn't even bothered to twink?  Seriously what kind of [Removed for Content] can't do the simple math.  Unless the twink makes a mistake you will lose.  It says nothing about you.  And the deaths themselves are a free teleport more often than not.  I have literally let people kill me faster because it has saved me travel time in CL.  And yet you get these silly people that believe they are super duper and anyone speaking against them is a whiner.   I mean I have gone to DLW put myself on auto-run and been killed over and over by the same group.  I went and got a drink and they think they are cool because they are wasting their time getting no money, no fame, no faction when they could be actually killing someone worth something.  They certainly aren't even causing me any real trouble because I know they are idiots, that is what auto-run is for to show them just how stupid they are.  I am already knew going into DLW that  I would die alot my persistance will get me something, I turn in a quest I get aa.  Their persistance does nothing, they can't force me out of the zone and every second they spend on me is a second they could spend on someone worth fame and who would actually drop something. And yet they still do this obviously pointless crap, because they simply can't believe that I am not a little child who throws a temper tantrum everyone some one kills me in PvP.And these people actually believe they have an impact or something.  Hah like someone else said go play Eve Online.  In EQ2 I can just go somewhere else like splitpaw if I like.   There is no control in EQ2 there is only chaos.  CL is safer for a Qeynos than Antonica is.  A team of FP gankers in SH can make the whole place is unuseable for both sides for anything more than a slaughter fest.  There is no way for Q's to dominate or control SH unless FP's are worried about titles.This is the real problem with EQ2 pvp it is mostly a slaughterfest whose outcome is basically known ahead of time.   Whoopy some gank squad using track came up found me using no brainpower at all since track automates and negates all terrain tactical elements then killed me using no brainpower or skill at all.  Its a simple calculation.  I play on nagafen for the extra danger, I am under no illusions that the pvp itself really has much value outside the very occasional good fight with someone who has the balls to actually give me a good fight.  I don't care that groups are more powerful.  The real problem is that 80% of pvp in EQ2 is a completely worthless slaughterfest ganking.  If you were an outside observer it would be like watching a boxing match where one guy stood stuck his out and and the other guy just hit him and knocked him out.  If you were in the crowd you would boo.  It feels good for the guy who wins but for everyone else it just a big "meh".The other thing that amazes me is the number of just plain ridculous "solutions" people give and will defend to the death.  Like crafting for a month.  This is a game.  Your suggestion to do something they don't like is not good or practical or success oriented.  I have an idea if you don't like seeing your character die you could um poke a pen through both your eyes, then you will never have to see it again.  That is a "solution" to the problem, its just incredibly stupid as well.  This is all you get in EQ2, crappy "solutions" filled with pointless downsides and if you don't want to waste your time on pointless downsides you are a whiner.I have no problem with the cut throat nature of EQ2 pvp.  In fact I think its a strength.  But people need to get their heads out of their backsides and stop making excuses.  The way it currently works is not fun for many people it is simply frustrating because you are basically helpless until you twink out and even the twinks cannot solve or control anything, they just don't have to completely bend over and take it.  No amount of twinks can ever make SH usable for Pve if some FPs decide to hunt there for kicks.  Two decent FP groups can cause any PvE'er groups to get wiped over and over.  If there were no tracking it might take more groups but the principle will still be the same.  There are no solutions to anything there are just people who are the Cchaff and the people who are  slaughtering others and the very occasional conflict between the slaughters.Sometimes its exhilirating for the most part its just kind of sad.  There is no constructive side to EQ2 PvP, it is merely chaos and internecine warfare with no purpose and at many points a large portion of people will be killed and have absolutely no way to stop it in anyway.  They can't hide because of track, they can't run because CC is out of control,  if they aren't twinked they have no chance in the fight.  For these people their most efficient course of action is to die as fast as possible.   Think about that, the pvp in this game is implemented in such a way that dying is more efficient than trying to live for a non-twink.  Wanting to dominate is fine, but from the standpoint of the game there are two sides to the equation.  Right now the equation is one side is close to helpless and therefore either despairing or bored and the other side obessively oppressing them for a power fix.  Does anyone in their right mind believe this is sustainable?  You can say hey craft for a month and that can work, but do you really expect a large number of people to do that?  Do you really think a large number of people are going to craft and harvest just so that they can spend 80% of their time slaughtering people who have no chance and 20% of their time fighting other twinks?  If you do I have a bridge to sell you...Slaughter-fests are always bad for PvP.  People need to feel like they at least have chance.  Otherwise what is the point?  And eventually the slaughter gets boring even.  EQ2 at least has a decently healthy twink community so that the slaughters can at least get some good fights.  But it still drives people away.  Many people do not want to twink and only a fool engages in a hopeless struggle.  That people actually believe the only option for not twinking is to be either foolish or forced into a hopeless situation is an ok is an indication of just how disfunctional the pvp community here is. If you are not making a concerted effort to twink and run in a dedicated pvp group you should simply avoid certain places and try to die as soon as possible when someone attacks you and plan out your activities accordingly.  Join the chaos or become a victim of it (and this will happen quickly on Nagafen), you have no other option besides a stand alone instance.If  I have a guy solo in Ant and 4 +2 lvl Champions on mounts ride straight at me from nowhere and kill me in 2 seconds I don't bat an eyelash.  I don't even bother looking at their names.  Nothing I could do.  They are just doing a patrol of Ant and using track.  Really you could macro the whole thing its so brainless.  I just accept that I will randomly die.  Nothing about them is worth thinking about they are so automated they might as well be NPC.  Track make them brainless and number+equipment make them need do almost nothing in the fight.  Its not even worth consideration.  And that is easily 50% of EQ2 pvp not worth even bothering to consider, there is absolutely nothing interesting.  It has been nullified.  Hey some guys are over ther?  Hey hide in this cool hole the designers thought to put in the zone.  Oh what there is a glowing yellow trail leading directly to me?  Oh right, why am I bothering doing anything at all?  Maybe I will run?  Oh no they have horses and 50% of them are furies and can just root me forever and the other half are scouts so I will be helpless and stunned the whole time.  Oh right why am I bothering?  Maybe I will fight and at least try to kill one them?  Oh right they do twice and much damage and take half as much damage compared to me I have no chance unless they are the worst players on the server.  Why am I bothering?You may say you are solo you should lose to a group of well geared people.  That is fine,  that makes some sense.  But that is not the issue.  The issue is if you are solo in Antonica you ARE going to die, no question.  Its an absolute certaintly between tracking, CC, and overwhelming force you are screwed.  There is nothing you can do.  That does not encourage people to play a game.  It is not healthy.Look the problem is not that something like soloing a non-twink is dangerous.  That would be fine.  In fact that is kind of the point of doing it on a PvP server.  The point is that it is hopeless.  There is no razor's edge because you have no chance at all.  Seriously you must understand on some level there is no excitement when defeat is inevitable.  In EQ2 it is not a question of if but when.  It is literally a waste of my time to try not to die.  My time is spent more efficiently by taking whatever the most direct route is to whereever I am going.  In this case there is no danger in EQ2 PvP,  there is just random inevitable inescapble death.  There is no oops I made a mistake they found me.  They would have have to be drooling morons to not find you.  There is no point in trying not to die.  Just shrug and keep going.  I mean really this just sad.  It is so lacking that it actually doesn't even evoke a feeling of danger or excitement.  When a gank squad kills my guy going to the spire to get to CL it barely even evokes a grunt from me.  I hit revive and immediately start running for the spires again.  It is essentially meaningless.  More often than not there is no danger or even anything interesting just a small amount inconvience I have already factored into things.  I usually just tap my foot at them so I can get on with what  I was doing.  Afterall, why bother doing anything? Anyone with half a brain knows the answer.  There is no reason.  You have no recourse.  You are fodder.  Do you really expect people to accept being fodder?  And what is the solution?  Become a twink and level lock like everyone else?  Yeah hey that is great!  What a stellar idea oh hold on that invalidates half of the entire game design and content, maybe there is a problem?  Nooooooooooo impossible!Half of the PvP population's entire concept of the status of the game is predicated on the idea that people get all mad and competitive when they die.  This is true for some, for many it is not true.  For many they understand that there was really nothing they could do.  Because that is how EQ2 PvP works.  In a number of situations you are basically screwed.  They just shrug and say oh that is kind of weak, what crappy pvp.  If they say that in chat they are called whiners even though their assessment is mathematically provably true.  They are called whiners because if they were really strong then they would just twink out and run with a gank squad.  But that does not address the criticism, even though these people believe it does.  The fact is that EQ2 PvP outside of the Twink/ganksquad arena is not rough.  for the most part it is just boring.  It is so stupid and optionless that it is trivial. I started on Nagafen the second month it was created.   I left and came back.  I have seen the change.  I have seen how the people have settled into the tiers.  A large number of people have left.  Mostly the people left are simply making excuses and living with bad solutions.  They are tired of hearing how the solutions are bad and shout down anyone who mentions the obvious flaws.
Paragraphs bloated with doom and gloom and how EQ2 PvP is worthless yet not one suggestion on how to change it...?!?!?
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Old 09-12-2007, 04:28 PM   #75
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Derrickray wrote:

I read it, and while some parts of it are exaggerated, he wasn't lying.

Exaggerations aside, you really only have two options to deal with the level locking.  You can lock yourself and take the time max out AA and harvest so you can afford mastercrafted gear and CAs all while getting ganked during the process.  Or, you can forget about locking and race past T2 to avoid the lockers...getting ganked during the process.

Either way, its the ganking part that detracts a lot of new players.  And its not that people can't take dying.  It the fact that there is a person behind their computer, so thirsty for kills, that they will ruin your gaming experience.  Who wants to play with that type of playerbase?

There are a few people who show class.  I've seen people /bow after a fight, /wave if they run past me while I'm on their recent list, and had a guy 8 levels above me /bonk me on the head just to let me know he could physically dominate me but chose not to.

People will say if you can't handle just leave.  The problem is that's exactly what people are doing.

Yes people should be careful what you wish for you may get it.  But people also need to understand, that new players are judging this game for worth/value.  If you aren't twinked or otherwise setup nicely EQ2 pvp is worhtless.  Many people don't leave angry.  Yes many PvPers wish that was the case, because either it gives them a thrill to know they have power over others or because they are that immature themselves.  Instead they leave thinking the game sucks.  Honestly thinking it sucks.  That it had very little that was good to offer.  And they are right.  The twinks know they are right, they have slaughtered them over and over to make sure it is obvious.  I am not blaming them, there are reasons for the the slaughter.What kind of an idiot dies over and over in a hopeless, pointless, extremely fast fight and thinks that is good?  No one.  The only people who stick around are motivated by revenge and domination.  A large portion of pvp fights are tactically worhtless.  Sometimes good fights occur, but a large portion are not.  People really do justifiably scoff.The PvPers need to accept that a large number of people leave with a stone cold sober evaluation that the PvP here really isn't that good.  They aren't weak.  They aren't angry.  They simply looked at the gank squads and said this is kind of weak and would get boring pretty fast.  And they are not wrong.  Maybe there is more to EQ2 than just that but these people are making a valid decision based on facts.  Facts no one can deny.Let's be brutally honest here.  EQ2 PvP is wussy PvP compared to Eve Online, but I have far more repsect for Eve Online PvP even though the PvP is harsher.  Its not about losing stuff, a death in Eve Online can be far far far more penalizing than EQ2.  Its not about control, PvP in Eve Online can completely deny you access and resources and truly control a region.  Its not about ganking, Eve Online has ganking and cheap [Removed for Content] gate camping and pireates galore.The problem is nature of the structure in EQ2 itself.  I took a newbie ship in Eve Online and i made run past a couple gate camper pirates.  I got lucky it took me a half hour to get to where I was going, but I made it.  It was dangerous and fairly fun.   That has worth.In EQ2 I go out to antonica a gank squad magically finds me via track, I am completely helpless with no chance of getting away.  That is worthless.  It doesn't make me angry.  It just make me say "that had nothing to offer me and seem rather boring to do".  This sort of thing exists in Eve Online, it is not free of sin so to speak.  It is also widely disliked.  Overpowering gate camps are generally hated and considered crap.  The problem is EQ2 PvP is dominated by this sort of worthless play.People really judging EQ2 PvP for value and many people are finding it lacking.  I didn't leave nagafen because I was angry or unsucessful.  I had a destroyer with a decent amout of stuff.  I left because it seemed trivial.
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Old 09-12-2007, 04:38 PM   #76
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Magius789 wrote:
baasfvaer wrote:
Boruk wrote:

Ok mates Ive read the entire thread and feel strongly enoughto give my point of view on this topic.

First things first, I am a NEW player been playing for about 3 weeks ( feels like a year ). Bit of background first. I have played MMO's for about 7 years. Ive been a MT in all the old plaine raids in EQ1 then moved to Daoc were i was a fairly successful MT in rvr. My troll warrior used to fair well even though warriors used to be below stealthers. I surived these games most proberbly being in the Aussie Infantry were you learn when things dont go your way, learn and adapt.

 Now this is my 3 weeks in EQ2. First thing I read up on the boards and guides, My first mistake was Venekor. I AM a Roleplayer ( heck it is a fantasy GAME ) I enjoy trying to emerse myself in the lore of the world im in. I DAOC we had RPPVP realms which actually were good and had a huge population. The only reason i left Venekor was due to population my time was way to low. Being an Aussie it was brutal playing on a low pop server on off peak. So I moved to nafgen. Keep in mind ( because i read the guides ) I Had already leveled 3 crafters to 20. a Armorer/Scholar/ and Craftsmen on venkeor but i really wanted to pvp lol.

So I started again, this time I rolled a fury as a main named Wayslayer. He is now a tailor and im in the process of leveling a scholar to make my adepts. Money ive found isnt really an issue here as ive made about 10 plat just buy selling rares im not using or making master crafted gear as I skill up. Ive also made Wayslayer a transmuter to help with cash flow. Now I dont think Im an idiot and go into this blindly BUT as soon as i ding 10 I got ganked, I shruged it off ( Im going to level to 13 before I lock, I want SoW).

One thing ive noticed is the community ive found here, specially in the 10-19 is insanley childish. Makes those that play WoW ( played it for 6 months got bored about how basic the game is ) look like fricken Universatiy scholars hehe. So ive decided to turn off the 10-19 channel and just talk to those i meet in game ( which is made the game better for me ). Also [I cannot control my vocabulary] is up with nobody knowing or using the LFG function? Its a fantastic system that craps over WoW or Daoc version but nobody here uses it, maybe it reflects the mentality of T2 level range ?

Now am I going to keep playing this game ? Yup till atleast Age of Conan. Why you might ask ? Well firstly im enjoying the crafting system also and even though the pvp system used here you can tell is an afterthought as this is a PVE game I found the mechanics quite easy. Yes i lose but I understand i have no chance of winning, There is no SKILL in t2 Pvp unless there equal geared enemys fighting. lol I laugh in RL and shake my head at the attitude of some in this thread who think they have REAL power by ganking lowbies and forcing them to cancel! What a friken stupied thing to say hehe. Thats like a crack addict saying "I pwned the dealer because i smoke my pipe so much hes run out of stock and out of bussiness!".

I dont see a future in the pvp servers here. Seriously an unbiased view here. If you guys keep on culling the new blood here for the POWA! all your doing is making your future pvp fights less and less, Imagine if you will all the level 2 destroyers/slayers are all that are left. you walk into DLW and you will see them all huging the zone wall.

Now in saying what ive said, when you finally get a even fight, the games a blast. Im just treating this game as a hardcore pve game. Even though im on a pvp server I like the fact I have to gear up before i venture out ( more realistic ) and look over my shoulder, adds excitment. And to all those lockers I have this to say. I admire the effort thats gone into you playstyle /salute. I even think your belief in that only easy fights are the only fights you KNOW you will win is understandable considering your mindset BUT understand this...you have no power over me. You can gank me 100 times and all ill do is laugh, why ? because all you are to me is a pve mob SMILEY<img src=">.

That needs to change if this games pvp servers to survive imo.....and one way going about that is to fix the zone hoping.

Anyway Cheers mates

I am pretty much in line with this.  But what I would like to add is I am amazed by the number of people who actually believe a spanking in t2 actually gets my goat.  Most losses in t2 are no reflection on personal skill.  You are either gangbanged and dead in a few seconds or completely out-twinked or have a bad match up. When I made my guy I fully intended to die alot in t2 pvp because I mostly wanted to aa hunt. I know my guy isn't worth much of anything.  I just shake my head and go on with my business.  Sometimes I purposely waste people's time by making them chase me.  What astounds me is that when I tell people I these guys are idiots for wasting their time they think I am complaining or something.  No genuinely think they are idiots.  They actually think a loss in t2 means jack to someone who hasn't even bothered to twink?  Seriously what kind of [Removed for Content] can't do the simple math.  Unless the twink makes a mistake you will lose.  It says nothing about you.  And the deaths themselves are a free teleport more often than not.  I have literally let people kill me faster because it has saved me travel time in CL.  And yet you get these silly people that believe they are super duper and anyone speaking against them is a whiner.   I mean I have gone to DLW put myself on auto-run and been killed over and over by the same group.  I went and got a drink and they think they are cool because they are wasting their time getting no money, no fame, no faction when they could be actually killing someone worth something.  They certainly aren't even causing me any real trouble because I know they are idiots, that is what auto-run is for to show them just how stupid they are.  I am already knew going into DLW that  I would die alot my persistance will get me something, I turn in a quest I get aa.  Their persistance does nothing, they can't force me out of the zone and every second they spend on me is a second they could spend on someone worth fame and who would actually drop something. And yet they still do this obviously pointless crap, because they simply can't believe that I am not a little child who throws a temper tantrum everyone some one kills me in PvP.And these people actually believe they have an impact or something.  Hah like someone else said go play Eve Online.  In EQ2 I can just go somewhere else like splitpaw if I like.   There is no control in EQ2 there is only chaos.  CL is safer for a Qeynos than Antonica is.  A team of FP gankers in SH can make the whole place is unuseable for both sides for anything more than a slaughter fest.  There is no way for Q's to dominate or control SH unless FP's are worried about titles.This is the real problem with EQ2 pvp it is mostly a slaughterfest whose outcome is basically known ahead of time.   Whoopy some gank squad using track came up found me using no brainpower at all since track automates and negates all terrain tactical elements then killed me using no brainpower or skill at all.  Its a simple calculation.  I play on nagafen for the extra danger, I am under no illusions that the pvp itself really has much value outside the very occasional good fight with someone who has the balls to actually give me a good fight.  I don't care that groups are more powerful.  The real problem is that 80% of pvp in EQ2 is a completely worthless slaughterfest ganking.  If you were an outside observer it would be like watching a boxing match where one guy stood stuck his out and and the other guy just hit him and knocked him out.  If you were in the crowd you would boo.  It feels good for the guy who wins but for everyone else it just a big "meh".The other thing that amazes me is the number of just plain ridculous "solutions" people give and will defend to the death.  Like crafting for a month.  This is a game.  Your suggestion to do something they don't like is not good or practical or success oriented.  I have an idea if you don't like seeing your character die you could um poke a pen through both your eyes, then you will never have to see it again.  That is a "solution" to the problem, its just incredibly stupid as well.  This is all you get in EQ2, crappy "solutions" filled with pointless downsides and if you don't want to waste your time on pointless downsides you are a whiner.I have no problem with the cut throat nature of EQ2 pvp.  In fact I think its a strength.  But people need to get their heads out of their backsides and stop making excuses.  The way it currently works is not fun for many people it is simply frustrating because you are basically helpless until you twink out and even the twinks cannot solve or control anything, they just don't have to completely bend over and take it.  No amount of twinks can ever make SH usable for Pve if some FPs decide to hunt there for kicks.  Two decent FP groups can cause any PvE'er groups to get wiped over and over.  If there were no tracking it might take more groups but the principle will still be the same.  There are no solutions to anything there are just people who are the Cchaff and the people who are  slaughtering others and the very occasional conflict between the slaughters.Sometimes its exhilirating for the most part its just kind of sad.  There is no constructive side to EQ2 PvP, it is merely chaos and internecine warfare with no purpose and at many points a large portion of people will be killed and have absolutely no way to stop it in anyway.  They can't hide because of track, they can't run because CC is out of control,  if they aren't twinked they have no chance in the fight.  For these people their most efficient course of action is to die as fast as possible.   Think about that, the pvp in this game is implemented in such a way that dying is more efficient than trying to live for a non-twink.  Wanting to dominate is fine, but from the standpoint of the game there are two sides to the equation.  Right now the equation is one side is close to helpless and therefore either despairing or bored and the other side obessively oppressing them for a power fix.  Does anyone in their right mind believe this is sustainable?  You can say hey craft for a month and that can work, but do you really expect a large number of people to do that?  Do you really think a large number of people are going to craft and harvest just so that they can spend 80% of their time slaughtering people who have no chance and 20% of their time fighting other twinks?  If you do I have a bridge to sell you...Slaughter-fests are always bad for PvP.  People need to feel like they at least have chance.  Otherwise what is the point?  And eventually the slaughter gets boring even.  EQ2 at least has a decently healthy twink community so that the slaughters can at least get some good fights.  But it still drives people away.  Many people do not want to twink and only a fool engages in a hopeless struggle.  That people actually believe the only option for not twinking is to be either foolish or forced into a hopeless situation is an ok is an indication of just how disfunctional the pvp community here is. If you are not making a concerted effort to twink and run in a dedicated pvp group you should simply avoid certain places and try to die as soon as possible when someone attacks you and plan out your activities accordingly.  Join the chaos or become a victim of it (and this will happen quickly on Nagafen), you have no other option besides a stand alone instance.If  I have a guy solo in Ant and 4 +2 lvl Champions on mounts ride straight at me from nowhere and kill me in 2 seconds I don't bat an eyelash.  I don't even bother looking at their names.  Nothing I could do.  They are just doing a patrol of Ant and using track.  Really you could macro the whole thing its so brainless.  I just accept that I will randomly die.  Nothing about them is worth thinking about they are so automated they might as well be NPC.  Track make them brainless and number+equipment make them need do almost nothing in the fight.  Its not even worth consideration.  And that is easily 50% of EQ2 pvp not worth even bothering to consider, there is absolutely nothing interesting.  It has been nullified.  Hey some guys are over ther?  Hey hide in this cool hole the designers thought to put in the zone.  Oh what there is a glowing yellow trail leading directly to me?  Oh right, why am I bothering doing anything at all?  Maybe I will run?  Oh no they have horses and 50% of them are furies and can just root me forever and the other half are scouts so I will be helpless and stunned the whole time.  Oh right why am I bothering?  Maybe I will fight and at least try to kill one them?  Oh right they do twice and much damage and take half as much damage compared to me I have no chance unless they are the worst players on the server.  Why am I bothering?You may say you are solo you should lose to a group of well geared people.  That is fine,  that makes some sense.  But that is not the issue.  The issue is if you are solo in Antonica you ARE going to die, no question.  Its an absolute certaintly between tracking, CC, and overwhelming force you are screwed.  There is nothing you can do.  That does not encourage people to play a game.  It is not healthy.Look the problem is not that something like soloing a non-twink is dangerous.  That would be fine.  In fact that is kind of the point of doing it on a PvP server.  The point is that it is hopeless.  There is no razor's edge because you have no chance at all.  Seriously you must understand on some level there is no excitement when defeat is inevitable.  In EQ2 it is not a question of if but when.  It is literally a waste of my time to try not to die.  My time is spent more efficiently by taking whatever the most direct route is to whereever I am going.  In this case there is no danger in EQ2 PvP,  there is just random inevitable inescapble death.  There is no oops I made a mistake they found me.  They would have have to be drooling morons to not find you.  There is no point in trying not to die.  Just shrug and keep going.  I mean really this just sad.  It is so lacking that it actually doesn't even evoke a feeling of danger or excitement.  When a gank squad kills my guy going to the spire to get to CL it barely even evokes a grunt from me.  I hit revive and immediately start running for the spires again.  It is essentially meaningless.  More often than not there is no danger or even anything interesting just a small amount inconvience I have already factored into things.  I usually just tap my foot at them so I can get on with what  I was doing.  Afterall, why bother doing anything? Anyone with half a brain knows the answer.  There is no reason.  You have no recourse.  You are fodder.  Do you really expect people to accept being fodder?  And what is the solution?  Become a twink and level lock like everyone else?  Yeah hey that is great!  What a stellar idea oh hold on that invalidates half of the entire game design and content, maybe there is a problem?  Nooooooooooo impossible!Half of the PvP population's entire concept of the status of the game is predicated on the idea that people get all mad and competitive when they die.  This is true for some, for many it is not true.  For many they understand that there was really nothing they could do.  Because that is how EQ2 PvP works.  In a number of situations you are basically screwed.  They just shrug and say oh that is kind of weak, what crappy pvp.  If they say that in chat they are called whiners even though their assessment is mathematically provably true.  They are called whiners because if they were really strong then they would just twink out and run with a gank squad.  But that does not address the criticism, even though these people believe it does.  The fact is that EQ2 PvP outside of the Twink/ganksquad arena is not rough.  for the most part it is just boring.  It is so stupid and optionless that it is trivial. I started on Nagafen the second month it was created.   I left and came back.  I have seen the change.  I have seen how the people have settled into the tiers.  A large number of people have left.  Mostly the people left are simply making excuses and living with bad solutions.  They are tired of hearing how the solutions are bad and shout down anyone who mentions the obvious flaws.
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Old 09-12-2007, 05:31 PM   #77
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[email protected] wrote:
Paragraphs bloated with doom and gloom and how EQ2 PvP is worthless yet not one suggestion on how to change it...?!?!?
Interesting how you try to disparage but offer nothing substantive.  It is easy to attempt to dismiss something with an off the cuff one sentence remark, but you might be surprised how many people actually expect you to support your point of view.  You may want to try to refute things rather than simply disparage them.  Of course if you can't actually muster up any sort of refutation I understand.You want solutions?  1) Make track only show that a person is near and never lead you directly to someone, ie. no waypoint functionality.2) A PvP death in a zone which your faction does not control should zone you back to your capital city and lock you out of that zone for 30 minutes.  If your faction does control it should work as it does now.   Resurrections are not limited by this rule, ie. death of half your group should be recoverable.3) CC should probably have some sort of diminishing returns.4) the gear power gap should be less.  Some of this is just old PvE stuff.  Kelethin quest rewards are way better than Ant ones 70% of the time.  But there should never be complete one vs one dominance.  Severe disadvantge is fine, but if someone feels like there is nothing they can do, then they will have no fun.5) CA/spell progression needs to be reworked.  A prime example is the fury M2 nuke at 24.  Are furies overpowered?  I won't get into that debate but the difference between a level 22 fury and level 24 fury is just plain crazy.6) the fame/faction system needs some changing, farming NPCs is fine.  Farming players trivializes PvP.  People don't need an excuse to gank, they will do it anyway.  Never underestimate petty malice.  Ganking adds no value to PvP.  It is by definition shooting fish in a barrel.  The current system encourages and rewards ganking.  Therefore it encourages and rewards trivial play.  This is a fairly complex issue but one thing that may work well:      A large group with an overwhelming numerical advantage (say +3) should get no fame or faction or drops except in an area your faction controls.        This is a trivial encounter.  Triviality should not be rewarded.  The faction part is to encourage policing.  Will this make everyone fight with 6 people       together but ungrouped?  Maybe.  But then they miss any group buffs and group only powers.  And there are other ways around that problem.      I would go so far as to give fame/faction for defeating a person with lesser amounts of aa/lower tier gear.  However I know that implementating such a       thing would be problematic.  But still I would trade these problems if it leads to less amount of trivial PvP encounters.   I think meaningful PvP is what most       truly want.        If some people think its fun to go around slaughter people and I know some people do then fine let them do it.  But if greys give no rewards in PvE then        why does something that is essentially gray give a nice reward in PvP?  This has even worse consequences in PvP than PvE, because NPCs can't stop       playing.7) There needs to be a "parley" function.  This should allow a group leader from one faction to chat with a group leader from another.  It should have time constraints like mentoring, ie. it take a minute to setup and also will close down after a few minutes and only be usable with the same person on a limited basis (say twice an hour).  This is useful in neutral zones because sometimes you may both need something there and flat out killing each other is just not worth it to either one of you and could be avoided by diplomacy.  You could also lie and and betray them if you like.  Why do I say this, because once again many times you simply get chaos in zones.  Chaos gets boring after a while.  Add in a Chaos/order dynamic and it gets far more interesting.  It also adds an aspect of social dynamics.SMILEY I actually have no problem with level locking.  I consider it a symptom and a hacked solution for a messed up situation.        I know #2 is probably not popular and frankly it would make aa hunting in DLW far harder for my guy than it is now.  But right now there is no real way for players to police a zone.  Most FFA PvP games convienently disregard the idea of police and law and order.  That is why you get what is generally considered in the real world criminal behavior in these games.  They leave it up to the players to "police themselves".  But guess what policing is a thankless and painstaking job and this is a game.  You can't consider this stuff in a vaccum.  Even if a person can't win a hopeless fight against a twink they will feel much better about things if they can call in the cavalry and it has some effect.  I know there are people in Ant who go around and kill the gankers, but I only shout stuff to help them out.  I know their efforts do me almost no good.  And for me personally the chaos in a place like Fallen Gate or Stormhold is just annoying.  I'd rather have it harder to get to the non-faction one and really have to ninja the place than just have it be the perpetual unproductive brawl it is now.There are two major problem with EQ2 PvP:1) A large amount of trivial PvP play.  Too much ganking, too many situations where you are helpless, and too many important tactical things invalidated by PvE features (such as tracking).2) no real control or policing.  People try yeah, but they simply don't have the game tools/features to make it stick in any real way.  Why call a twink friend to come take care of someone, they can just come back.  Your friend must stay with you constantly as it stands now. 
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Old 09-12-2007, 05:47 PM   #78
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baasfvaer wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Paragraphs bloated with doom and gloom and how EQ2 PvP is worthless yet not one suggestion on how to change it...?!?!?
1) Make track only show that a person is near and never lead you directly to someone, ie. no waypoint functionality.2) A PvP death in a zone which your faction does not control should zone you back to your capital city and lock you out of that zone for 30 minutes.  If your faction does control it should work as it does now.   Resurrections are not limited by this rule, ie. death of half your group should be recoverable.3) CC should probably have some sort of diminishing returns.4) the gear power gap should be less.  Some of this is just old PvE stuff.  Kelethin quest rewards are way better than Ant ones 70% of the time.  But there should never be complete one vs one dominance.  Severe disadvantge is fine, but if someone feels like there is nothing they can do, then they will have no fun.5) CA/spell progression needs to be reworked.  A prime example is the fury M2 nuke at 24.  Are furies overpowered?  I won't get into that debate but the difference between a level 22 fury and level 24 fury is just plain crazy.6) the fame/faction system needs some changing, farming NPCs is fine.  Farming players trivializes PvP.  People don't need an excuse to gank, they will do it anyway.  Never underestimate petty malice.  Ganking adds no value to PvP.  It is by definition shooting fish in a barrel.  The current system encourages and rewards ganking.  Therefore it encourages and rewards trivial play.  This is a fairly complex issue but one thing that may work well:      A large group with an overwhelming numerical advantage (say +3) should get no fame or faction or drops except in an area your faction controls.        This is a trivial encounter.  Triviality should not be rewarded.  The faction part is to encourage policing.  Will this make everyone fight with 6 people       together but ungrouped?  Maybe.  But then they miss any group buffs and group only powers.  And there are other ways around that problem.      I would go so far as to give fame/faction for defeating a person with lesser amounts of aa/lower tier gear.  However I know that implementating such a       thing would be problematic.  But still I would trade these problems if it leads to less amount of trivial PvP encounters.   I think meaningful PvP is what most       truly want.        If some people think its fun to go around slaughter people and I know some people do then fine let them do it.  But if greys give no rewards in PvE then        why does something that is essentially gray give a nice reward in PvP?  This has even worse consequences in PvP than PvE, because NPCs can't stop       playing.7) There needs to be a "parley" function.  This should allow a group leader from one faction to chat with a group leader from another.  It should have time constraints like mentoring, ie. it take a minute to setup and also will close down after a few minutes and only be usable with the same person on a limited basis (say twice an hour).  This is useful in neutral zones because sometimes you may both need something there and flat out killing each other is just not worth it to either one of you and could be avoided by diplomacy.  You could also lie and and betray them if you like.  Why do I say this, because once again many times you simply get chaos in zones.  Chaos gets boring after a while.  Add in a Chaos/order dynamic and it gets far more interesting.  It also adds an aspect of social dynamics.SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /> I actually have no problem with level locking.  I consider it a symptom and a hacked solution for a messed up situation.        I know #2 is probably not popular and frankly it would make aa hunting in DLW far harder for my guy than it is now.  But right now there is no real way for players to police a zone.  Most FFA PvP games convienently disregard the idea of police and law and order.  That is why you get what is generally considered in the real world criminal behavior in these games.  They leave it up to the players to "police themselves".  But guess what policing is a thankless and painstaking job and this is a game.  You can't consider this stuff in a vaccum.  Even if a person can't win a hopeless fight against a twink they will feel much better about things if they can call in the cavalry and it has some effect.  I know there are people in Ant who go around and kill the gankers, but I only shout stuff to help them out.  I know their efforts do me almost no good.  And for me personally the chaos in a place like Fallen Gate or Stormhold is just annoying.  I'd rather have it harder to get to the non-faction one and really have to ninja the place than just have it be the perpetual unproductive brawl it is now.There are two major problem with EQ2 PvP:1) A large amount of trivial PvP play.  Too much ganking, too many situations where you are helpless, and too many important tactical things invalidated by PvE features (such as tracking).2) no real control or policing.  People try yeah, but they simply don't have the game tools/features to make it stick in any real way.  Why call a twink friend to come take care of someone, they can just come back.  Your friend must stay with you constantly as it stands now. 

Nice...these are actually very good and valid points. No sarcasm, I'm dead serious in saying these are probably the best solutions I've heard on these boards regarding overall problems in eq2 pvp.

The fundamental problem in eq2 pvp, and why it really is pointless, is eq2 has no foundation for pvp...that was added as sort of an 'icing on the cake', rather than the underlying guide for game mechanics.

I play two scouts...and even though I use track(well, cause it's there and other scouts are using it heh) I think it could be done away with.

I have to agree also especially with the relative progression of the strength of certain abilities and gear...also the reward system in this game. It's absolutely horrid...I won't go into detail of why cause that could be a book all by itself & I'm too lazy to do that right now.

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Old 09-12-2007, 05:47 PM   #79
matt2004

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baasfvaer wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Paragraphs bloated with doom and gloom and how EQ2 PvP is worthless yet not one suggestion on how to change it...?!?!?
Interesting how you try to disparage but offer nothing substantive.  It is easy to attempt to dismiss something with an off the cuff one sentence remark, but you might be surprised how many people actually expect you to support your point of view.  You may want to try to refute things rather than simply disparage them.  Of course if you can't actually muster up any sort of refutation I understand.You want solutions?  1) Make track only show that a person is near and never lead you directly to someone, ie. no waypoint functionality.2) A PvP death in a zone which your faction does not control should zone you back to your capital city and lock you out of that zone for 30 minutes.  If your faction does control it should work as it does now.   Resurrections are not limited by this rule, ie. death of half your group should be recoverable.3) CC should probably have some sort of diminishing returns.4) the gear power gap should be less.  Some of this is just old PvE stuff.  Kelethin quest rewards are way better than Ant ones 70% of the time.  But there should never be complete one vs one dominance.  Severe disadvantge is fine, but if someone feels like there is nothing they can do, then they will have no fun.5) CA/spell progression needs to be reworked.  A prime example is the fury M2 nuke at 24.  Are furies overpowered?  I won't get into that debate but the difference between a level 22 fury and level 24 fury is just plain crazy.6) the fame/faction system needs some changing, farming NPCs is fine.  Farming players trivializes PvP.  People don't need an excuse to gank, they will do it anyway.  Never underestimate petty malice.  Ganking adds no value to PvP.  It is by definition shooting fish in a barrel.  The current system encourages and rewards ganking.  Therefore it encourages and rewards trivial play.  This is a fairly complex issue but one thing that may work well:      A large group with an overwhelming numerical advantage (say +3) should get no fame or faction or drops except in an area your faction controls.        This is a trivial encounter.  Triviality should not be rewarded.  The faction part is to encourage policing.  Will this make everyone fight with 6 people       together but ungrouped?  Maybe.  But then they miss any group buffs and group only powers.  And there are other ways around that problem.      I would go so far as to give fame/faction for defeating a person with lesser amounts of aa/lower tier gear.  However I know that implementating such a       thing would be problematic.  But still I would trade these problems if it leads to less amount of trivial PvP encounters.   I think meaningful PvP is what most       truly want.        If some people think its fun to go around slaughter people and I know some people do then fine let them do it.  But if greys give no rewards in PvE then        why does something that is essentially gray give a nice reward in PvP?  This has even worse consequences in PvP than PvE, because NPCs can't stop       playing.7) There needs to be a "parley" function.  This should allow a group leader from one faction to chat with a group leader from another.  It should have time constraints like mentoring, ie. it take a minute to setup and also will close down after a few minutes and only be usable with the same person on a limited basis (say twice an hour).  This is useful in neutral zones because sometimes you may both need something there and flat out killing each other is just not worth it to either one of you and could be avoided by diplomacy.  You could also lie and and betray them if you like.  Why do I say this, because once again many times you simply get chaos in zones.  Chaos gets boring after a while.  Add in a Chaos/order dynamic and it gets far more interesting.  It also adds an aspect of social dynamics.SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /> I actually have no problem with level locking.  I consider it a symptom and a hacked solution for a messed up situation.        I know #2 is probably not popular and frankly it would make aa hunting in DLW far harder for my guy than it is now.  But right now there is no real way for players to police a zone.  Most FFA PvP games convienently disregard the idea of police and law and order.  That is why you get what is generally considered in the real world criminal behavior in these games.  They leave it up to the players to "police themselves".  But guess what policing is a thankless and painstaking job and this is a game.  You can't consider this stuff in a vaccum.  Even if a person can't win a hopeless fight against a twink they will feel much better about things if they can call in the cavalry and it has some effect.  I know there are people in Ant who go around and kill the gankers, but I only shout stuff to help them out.  I know their efforts do me almost no good.  And for me personally the chaos in a place like Fallen Gate or Stormhold is just annoying.  I'd rather have it harder to get to the non-faction one and really have to ninja the place than just have it be the perpetual unproductive brawl it is now.There are two major problem with EQ2 PvP:1) A large amount of trivial PvP play.  Too much ganking, too many situations where you are helpless, and too many important tactical things invalidated by PvE features (such as tracking).2) no real control or policing.  People try yeah, but they simply don't have the game tools/features to make it stick in any real way.  Why call a twink friend to come take care of someone, they can just come back.  Your friend must stay with you constantly as it stands now. 

Please dont let some of the attitudes here discourage you from posting. I agree with everything you have said 100%. They say they crave danger and if they call this "danger" they havent ever played a quality pvp game. Tracking does trivialize things to an extent there is not even a use to try anymore. whats the point?

i really hope your words dont fall on deaf ears because it was "too long". The simple mindedness of some of these so called "professional pvp'ers" astounds me. I really enjoyed reading your posts and hope you comment again in the future because clearly, the people that feel the way we do...dont speak up enough.

I started a thread a few weeks ago about the power of the fury in those level ranges. I was met with 90% of players disagreeing with me, acting totally clueless to the whole situation. Flaming, namecalling etc and then they turn around and tell others to "grow up" and "learn the system". Why would anyone want to learn this system when its a total waste of time?

Why would a new player stick with the trouble he goes through knowing that he will be one of "them" in 3 weeks? Its boring, mindless and your so right when you say whats the point? I have done what you have described so many times..just stand there and wait till its over. There is no point to fight back...you could be the most skilled pvp'er in the world and coming into this game you have snowballs chance in hell to even defend your self....

I dont think you all understand when we say new players are not asking for a "win" button. But to only have the chance to even fight back is asking to much? You all claim to have so much skill but every time someone offers a great suggestion you just shoot it down like a bad idea lol. So...why keep offering suggestions?

Every single time a discussion starts getting good and smart intelligence has seen the post and weighed in on the subject another child comes into the discussion and starts saying rude things so the whole post is locked....

Why do they lock the whole post and not just delete the post that said bad things? I can tell you why. It makes the issue go away for a few days untill someone brings it up again. SoE worked for years on this game, i doubt they want to see it just fall to the side. The pvp population in MMOs is now great as, or even greater than the old pve crowds. People like fighting people and like to feel they at least have a chance on the outcome of the battle.

When they have no chance to change the outcome, no matter what they do...why even play? And twinking yourself also is not a solution, it adds to the problem. It doesnt matter if your a twink or not, trust me. The pvp has no meaning and no thought. I really hope SoE comments soon on this situation. You my friend have opened my eyes even more on the whole sour bad tasting issue and i will also vote with my feet soon.

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Old 09-12-2007, 05:48 PM   #80
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[email protected] wrote:

I also like the learning curve. A big reason I left WoW was the mass of [I cannot control my vocabulary] that invaded my comfy little MMO world. Let the newbs squirm imo, the ones that stay are worthy.

SMILEYNeed to get your head out of your [Removed for Content] mate.
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Old 09-12-2007, 06:01 PM   #81
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[email protected] wrote:
Read it...To me it is an over exaggerated pile of poop.Many folks feel that the "world of PvP" should be 1v1, 3v3, 6v6 fights of evenly matched opponents.  No one having an advantage.  [I cannot control my vocabulary]...I want a PvP game where it is ~dangerous~.  Where a very well geared toon that someone has invested a lot of time into can pop out of nowhere and hand you a revive screen.  I want a PvP game where I could do the same if I am also willing to make the time sink and in game coin investment.I want a PvP world where epic battles can rage where a ~Hero~ (someone who has invested massive time and effort into his toon) wades like a demon through a mass of lesser geared enemies, slaughtering all before him till he is eventually swarmed by the masses or another ~Hero~ steps forth battle him.I want a PvP world where if you are caught out in the open by a full group of the enemy, you die...   ...fast, unless you somehow manage to slip away.  I want even something as mundane as traveling to a dungeon or harvesting to be an adventure, a risk.If I wanted a gaming world where I could feel safe, where I could avoid ~aggro~, where I only had to fight ^^^'s if I pulled them, I would have stayed on PvE.The author of that little story seemed to want a world of safety.  A world where all the fights he ran across where even conned.  Where he could PvP in peace.  He didn't find it.  He found a world full of heros and villains, a world where there are the strong and the weak, a world where people killed you because they could; and he didn't like it.  So he wrote a gross exaggeration on why he left and how it had nothing to do with the fact that he wanted something stupid.  A fantasy game without heroic battles, without the weak to defend, a world where everyone was the same for the sole reason that then he feels it would be fair.Other than some of the not-so-smart mechanics that make people not want to fight (perma-immunity, titles gained by farming fame and running, broken resists) this is a great game.Sure some people won't like it.  But if you read their posts from a different perspective, you will see it is usually because the couldn't handle not winning, because they were killed (in their opinion) too easily.I for one would hate a PvP world without danger...

I have heard nobody ask for fair 5v5s or 3v3s. Your mistaken when you think that. Atm, there is no difference if they use every skill they have or just stand there doing nothing. the outcome will be the same.....cant you see that?

You say you crave a world of danger where epic battles rage and one player can come in and kill everyone? Who in the world is going to play a game like this? Im sure its enjoyable for yourself...but those are other humans that pay the same price you do...for their enjoyment, not for yours.

There is a difference between pointless slaughtering and player vs player combat. Just because you cant two-shots 90% of your opponents doesnt mean that you cant have an edge because your a veteran. I find it funny you call this player a "hero" that comes and kills everyone and then waits around for another twink to show up and put up a fight. If this is your idea of "fun" then you clearly dont have a clue.

The author never said he wanted a carebear world. HE DID PUT IN TIME AND TRY TO TWINK OUT AND FOUND THE SYSTEM WORTHLESS AND POINTLESS....like 95% of other players that come and go....my gosh what is it going to take before you people wake up and admit the truth? 15 players on each server? If this keeps up your not going to have a choice apple, your toons will be moved to a pve server and stripped of all pvp gear because there wont be enough population or subscriptions to permit the cost of running the pvp servers in the first place.

The populations get lower and lower by the month, and still, half of you guys dont understand.

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Old 09-12-2007, 06:27 PM   #82
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This thread should be re-named:

'Guys you should not read this...'

Numerous 2000 word essays aren't the way forums should be used imo. Just makes anyone that wants to read the thread less inclinded to do so.

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Old 09-12-2007, 06:30 PM   #83
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[email protected] wrote:

This thread should be re-named:

'Guys you should not read this...'

Numerous 2000 word essays aren't the way forums should be used imo. Just makes anyone that wants to read the thread less inclinded to do so.

Its a complex situation that cant be summed up in 4-5 words. To some, its a very important issue, or myself, and others wouldnt spend our life typing these essays.
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Old 09-12-2007, 06:38 PM   #84
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matt2004 wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

This thread should be re-named:

'Guys you should not read this...'

Numerous 2000 word essays aren't the way forums should be used imo. Just makes anyone that wants to read the thread less inclinded to do so.

Its a complex situation that cant be summed up in 4-5 words. To some, its a very important issue, or myself, and others wouldnt spend our life typing these essays.

I agree that some topics where you have a strong opinion might take a few paragraphs for you to feel you have summed it up to a level your happy with. Some of the posts here are just plain rediculous.

One person's reply was over 2300 words. Thats like 1 hour solid typing ( at about 40 words per minute) without counting any thought time or pauses.

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Old 09-12-2007, 07:18 PM   #85
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[email protected] wrote:
matt2004 wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

This thread should be re-named:

'Guys you should not read this...'

Numerous 2000 word essays aren't the way forums should be used imo. Just makes anyone that wants to read the thread less inclinded to do so.

Its a complex situation that cant be summed up in 4-5 words. To some, its a very important issue, or myself, and others wouldnt spend our life typing these essays.

I agree that some topics where you have a strong opinion might take a few paragraphs for you to feel you have summed it up to a level your happy with. Some of the posts here are just plain rediculous.

One person's reply was over 2300 words. Thats like 1 hour solid typing ( at about 40 words per minute) without counting any thought time or pauses.

I can see exactly where your coming from Milambers. I know which post your talking about (probably the one a few posts above this one) but...if you do find the time and read his post....you will see why he took the time to say what he said. its one of the most logical posts ive ever seen on these forums and was well worth the 10 minutes it took me to read it. not flaming ya...just a fyi.

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Old 09-12-2007, 07:33 PM   #86
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baasfvaer wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Paragraphs bloated with doom and gloom and how EQ2 PvP is worthless yet not one suggestion on how to change it...?!?!?
Interesting how you try to disparage but offer nothing substantive.  It is easy to attempt to dismiss something with an off the cuff one sentence remark, but you might be surprised how many people actually expect you to support your point of view.  You may want to try to refute things rather than simply disparage them.  Of course if you can't actually muster up any sort of refutation I understand.You want solutions?  1) Make track only show that a person is near and never lead you directly to someone, ie. no waypoint functionality.2) A PvP death in a zone which your faction does not control should zone you back to your capital city and lock you out of that zone for 30 minutes.  If your faction does control it should work as it does now.   Resurrections are not limited by this rule, ie. death of half your group should be recoverable.3) CC should probably have some sort of diminishing returns.4) the gear power gap should be less.  Some of this is just old PvE stuff.  Kelethin quest rewards are way better than Ant ones 70% of the time.  But there should never be complete one vs one dominance.  Severe disadvantge is fine, but if someone feels like there is nothing they can do, then they will have no fun.5) CA/spell progression needs to be reworked.  A prime example is the fury M2 nuke at 24.  Are furies overpowered?  I won't get into that debate but the difference between a level 22 fury and level 24 fury is just plain crazy.6) the fame/faction system needs some changing, farming NPCs is fine.  Farming players trivializes PvP.  People don't need an excuse to gank, they will do it anyway.  Never underestimate petty malice.  Ganking adds no value to PvP.  It is by definition shooting fish in a barrel.  The current system encourages and rewards ganking.  Therefore it encourages and rewards trivial play.  This is a fairly complex issue but one thing that may work well:      A large group with an overwhelming numerical advantage (say +3) should get no fame or faction or drops except in an area your faction controls.        This is a trivial encounter.  Triviality should not be rewarded.  The faction part is to encourage policing.  Will this make everyone fight with 6 people       together but ungrouped?  Maybe.  But then they miss any group buffs and group only powers.  And there are other ways around that problem.      I would go so far as to give fame/faction for defeating a person with lesser amounts of aa/lower tier gear.  However I know that implementating such a       thing would be problematic.  But still I would trade these problems if it leads to less amount of trivial PvP encounters.   I think meaningful PvP is what most       truly want.        If some people think its fun to go around slaughter people and I know some people do then fine let them do it.  But if greys give no rewards in PvE then        why does something that is essentially gray give a nice reward in PvP?  This has even worse consequences in PvP than PvE, because NPCs can't stop       playing.7) There needs to be a "parley" function.  This should allow a group leader from one faction to chat with a group leader from another.  It should have time constraints like mentoring, ie. it take a minute to setup and also will close down after a few minutes and only be usable with the same person on a limited basis (say twice an hour).  This is useful in neutral zones because sometimes you may both need something there and flat out killing each other is just not worth it to either one of you and could be avoided by diplomacy.  You could also lie and and betray them if you like.  Why do I say this, because once again many times you simply get chaos in zones.  Chaos gets boring after a while.  Add in a Chaos/order dynamic and it gets far more interesting.  It also adds an aspect of social dynamics.SMILEY<img src=" /> I actually have no problem with level locking.  I consider it a symptom and a hacked solution for a messed up situation.        I know #2 is probably not popular and frankly it would make aa hunting in DLW far harder for my guy than it is now.  But right now there is no real way for players to police a zone.  Most FFA PvP games convienently disregard the idea of police and law and order.  That is why you get what is generally considered in the real world criminal behavior in these games.  They leave it up to the players to "police themselves".  But guess what policing is a thankless and painstaking job and this is a game.  You can't consider this stuff in a vaccum.  Even if a person can't win a hopeless fight against a twink they will feel much better about things if they can call in the cavalry and it has some effect.  I know there are people in Ant who go around and kill the gankers, but I only shout stuff to help them out.  I know their efforts do me almost no good.  And for me personally the chaos in a place like Fallen Gate or Stormhold is just annoying.  I'd rather have it harder to get to the non-faction one and really have to ninja the place than just have it be the perpetual unproductive brawl it is now.There are two major problem with EQ2 PvP:1) A large amount of trivial PvP play.  Too much ganking, too many situations where you are helpless, and too many important tactical things invalidated by PvE features (such as tracking).2) no real control or policing.  People try yeah, but they simply don't have the game tools/features to make it stick in any real way.  Why call a twink friend to come take care of someone, they can just come back.  Your friend must stay with you constantly as it stands now. 
Thanks for offering these.  Without it your long posts are just wastes of time.I didn't offer suggestions to fix this ~problem~ because I don't agree with you that solos being killed by groups or groups being killed by raids is a ~problem~.I believe it was an earlier post in this thread that I did state the few things I feel need changed.  The possibilities for exploiting the solutions you suggest to curb ~ganking~  are too numerous and readily apparent.  You even noted a most obvious one yourself.  While I do agree with you in that the disparity in effectiveness in gear should be toned down in the lower tier, I cannot agree that people should be penalized for grouping.This is a PvP game.  When a fight occurs it seems obvious that a distinct advantage should go to the side with more people.  I don't view that as wrong.  I view that as common sense.This game already caters to scouts running solo or duo on their hunt for titles.  Is a solo going to get rolled flat by a group?  Yes.  Can he call out for help in his faction's channels?  Yes.  Can he get a group?  Yes.  Soloing should be risky.  And yes, you are right.  Scout track should be nerfed.  I think it should work just like it does now, but with a HUGELY diminished range, and you should not get to see enemy cons on track.  You should have to learn their names.  Make being a good tracker a skill.  Currently track provides WAY too much information that affects whether people even fight.   "zOMG!!!1!  Full group of Oranges!  Evac!"  Thats something that is fine to hear, but should it really happen before visual contact with the other group has even taken place?You have some great suggestions.  But the whole "Save The Solo Player" thing is silly to me.  A raid sweeping the land like locusts should be a danger instead of a non-issue.  A group shouldn't have to kick a few members so that people get credit for the kills of a trio they come upon.
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Old 09-12-2007, 08:08 PM   #87
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matt2004 wrote:

roll a new toon on nagafen and show me how fast you adapt. Venekor has a little griefing, nagafen is a whole different ballgame. tons of people want population i mean this is a mmo after all.....should i have 30 crafters to level 20 before i can step foot on nagafen because i need to "adapt"?

Your definition of "adapting" is suck it up while we beat the living hell out of you for a few weeks/months. Im sorry thats not adapting. thats BS.

doom and gloom? ignore it as usual as you say? i think your server population is gonna slap you in the face. you and i BOTH know that venekor is a month away from being in some serious trouble. the fact is, any of you that thinks this pvp system is fun/adaptable or in any such a way that a *****real***** new player can come in and just pick it up in a "week" as so many say...your fooling yourself, lieing, or have never played real pvp.

like i said earlier, pvp is putting one human against another human....one group against another group...skill/reaction vs skill/reaction....

this system is like going to a WWF ring and having me in one corner and my 2 year old son in the other. then i beat the hell out of him, the crowd BOOOs! me....and i get the microphone and say.."c'mon..nubs he needs to adapt"

get a life and stop ganking greens and sony wouldnt have to do anything at all. some of these people make me sick. there would be no tier2/3 problem if they would just play thier mains. its so hard for you to find these actions justifiable your like a fish out of water just looking for excuses. in a way ill be glad when these servers do die and you have to play a real pvp game where your gonna have a 50% chance of losing when you engage. i bet you quit within a month. whats wrong? 50/50 chance for both parties.....couldnt you adapt?

I have a toon on Naggy, yet according to you the "hardmode" of that server should have me running here crying about dumbing down the twinks like yourself. No thanks.  It's the same dynamic which makes this world so diverse, some people adapt, others ball up in a corner and make alot of noise.  My point is that there are many who aren't here making noise.

No worries, I'm not here to play forum pvp with you since I actually play the game, I'm just here like Apple to show that there is another side to the whine.  Btw I got 120 kills last night on Venekor, for a "dead" server that speaks bounds.

It's not the gank that makes these games bad mat2004, its doomsayers and easymode petitioners like yourself that do.  People like you are the cause for debacles like SWG's NGE.  Keep the essays coming though, when they dumb this down to not beign a challenge there will be other games for people like myself (who like a challenge) to go to. Flame on.

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Old 09-12-2007, 08:26 PM   #88
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[email protected] wrote:
matt2004 wrote:

roll a new toon on nagafen and show me how fast you adapt. Venekor has a little griefing, nagafen is a whole different ballgame. tons of people want population i mean this is a mmo after all.....should i have 30 crafters to level 20 before i can step foot on nagafen because i need to "adapt"?

Your definition of "adapting" is suck it up while we beat the living hell out of you for a few weeks/months. Im sorry thats not adapting. thats BS.

doom and gloom? ignore it as usual as you say? i think your server population is gonna slap you in the face. you and i BOTH know that venekor is a month away from being in some serious trouble. the fact is, any of you that thinks this pvp system is fun/adaptable or in any such a way that a *****real***** new player can come in and just pick it up in a "week" as so many say...your fooling yourself, lieing, or have never played real pvp.

like i said earlier, pvp is putting one human against another human....one group against another group...skill/reaction vs skill/reaction....

this system is like going to a WWF ring and having me in one corner and my 2 year old son in the other. then i beat the hell out of him, the crowd BOOOs! me....and i get the microphone and say.."c'mon..nubs he needs to adapt"

get a life and stop ganking greens and sony wouldnt have to do anything at all. some of these people make me sick. there would be no tier2/3 problem if they would just play thier mains. its so hard for you to find these actions justifiable your like a fish out of water just looking for excuses. in a way ill be glad when these servers do die and you have to play a real pvp game where your gonna have a 50% chance of losing when you engage. i bet you quit within a month. whats wrong? 50/50 chance for both parties.....couldnt you adapt?

I have a toon on Naggy, yet according to you the "hardmode" of that server should have me running here crying about dumbing down the twinks like yourself. No thanks.  It's the same dynamic which makes this world so diverse, some people adapt, others ball up in a corner and make alot of noise.  My point is that there are many who aren't here making noise.

No worries, I'm not here to play forum pvp with you since I actually play the game, I'm just here like Apple to show that there is another side to the whine.  Btw I got 120 kills last night on Venekor, for a "dead" server that speaks bounds.

It's not the gank that makes these games bad mat2004, its doomsayers and easymode petitioners like yourself that do.  People like you are the cause for debacles like SWG's NGE.  Keep the essays coming though, when they dumb this down to not beign a challenge there will be other games for people like myself (who like a challenge) to go to. Flame on.

Not one person here has asked for easy-mode or dumbed down pvp. I quit SWG because of the NGE so dont assume you know me or what type of person i am. Dont believe me? check my posting history, stated this many, many times...

Im not suprised at all you can earn 120 kills a night. Its rather easy when most of the enemies you fight cant even remove 2% of your HP....i however am asking for a challenge in pvp. I would like every single player to have some sort of a chance. I dont enjoy entering a fight knowing if im going to win or lose before the first punch is even thrown...i like a challenge, as i said, many times. I however, dont find any challenge whatsoever hunting down people that dont have any chance to fight back...or getting steam-rolled by groups and they gain credit/fame/infamy/items when they have shown no skill whatsoever. Why should you gain fame or infamy in fighting the down-hill battle? Please explain

I find it funny, people like you call this type of pvp a challenge when there is no challenge or meaning at all. Please, explain to us this system you call a challenge...because unless you happen to get lucky and find a group of twinks around your level with the same amount of people there is no challenge in this type of pvp whatsoever. The fight is over before it even began. And, since you seem to believe you have such a promising future for this type of gameplay...tell me...what game will you move to that shows this type of cowardice? None, because no other game on the market has such a messy rule-set. Fact is, i can see the player in your sig...your NOT a new player and i would go as far to say you dont have a clue what new players go though because youve already established yourself and have your twinks. At least i have the common sense to realise with no new players staying on the pvp servers and with the current population issues (deny it all you like, could care less, really) the servers wont be around for "doomsayers" as you call it...none of us will be here period.

Of course there are many that agree with you man, they are already here and could care less what hardships new players go through as long as they continue to rule the servers and who progresses and who doesnt. If you wish to start a personal arguement with me personally, by all means, start your own thread...i promise you ill be there in an instant. Unless you have anything productive to say.....stop trolling.

Your post has brought very very little to this discussion.

and to think, i just told gnobrin how mature this post had stayed so far.....please, if your a moderator and considering locking this post..please consider deleting the posts that are found offensive, and not the entire discussion, thank you.

**edit....you said (not gonna quote, too much trouble) your here, just like apple, saying threads/people like me ruins these games, funny thing is, even apple himself stated just above your post that yes, some things need to be changed.....i find it irritating some people feel the need to comment on the thread and cant even keep up with the conversation. Also, if you would have read the whole thread (i know its long, and you could care less) youd see im not even the originial poster...copy/paste ftw. Nobody is asking for groups to stop rolling solos....jeeze....but why should the solo's be penalized when they had no chance to change the outcome of battle in the first place?

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Old 09-12-2007, 09:18 PM   #89
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Interesting reading very similar to listening to raiders vs. casuals on my regular server... Basically the haves and the have nots... only difference here, the have nots unless adopted by the haves are never going to have anything.

**** Long time EQ1 player (beta to Omens) hard core raider... left took a few months off and then came onboard with EQ2.  Hardcore player for the first couple of years, then changed jobs ect.. real life caught up and I slowed down alot.  I don't raid often anymore I have 5 maxed toons on my main server, guardian, mystic, ranger, swash, fury...  *****

Being bored on the PVE servers at the moment a friend suggested I try out PVP... so I did, I generated a barbarian zerker on Nagafen... Did the usual on the newbie isle spent two nights after work (130am Pacific time) playing a few hours working thru all the quests, getting my foraging skills up and getting what gear I could off the island before making the jump to Qeynos.  Quite interesting not having a sugar daddy toon to toss items off my tradeskillers to help with the leveling and what not.  Also quite a shock not having any money at all... left the island with 44silver. 

Got to Qeynos and setup shop in my starter city, did the local quests upped my tradeskill level to 10th... foraged and quested in the Oakmyst Forrest for raws, rares and shinys... 

I am now 10th I am wearing 3 pieces of Bronze Armor (Forged not pristine.. pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] hard to get pristine off a brand new tradeskiller... lol ) upped a few of my CA's to adept 3.. the advanced artisan books are nutty expensive for some of the levels so had to pick and choose which ones I could afford.  Lucked out did the quest on the newbie isle where you spawn the triple up heroic blob in the pond won a level 1 conjuror master sold it for 15gp on the broker this morning... So now I have enough coin to work up my tradeskills a ways....

Dinged 10th this morning, turned in my quests and the three completed collections and ran around Qeynos for Disco... just off of one AA.  All is good so far.. not having a bad time, kinda fun having to work my [I cannot control my vocabulary] off for every little thing ect.

Then made the worst mistake of my life, stepped out into Antonica... 35 seconds later... deader then a doorknob never even saw the guy no the horse who with 2 buddies litterally ran me over soon as I stepped on the path outside the SQ gate.  Only consolation didn't have to listen to them gloat.  Respawned and silly me figured [Removed for Content] I can run to the lighthouse ect... 43 seconds later poof dead again... same group who knows..

If this is how it's gonna be, back to boring quests on my other server cause i don't have the patience to get ganked within steps of the gate over and over and over lol...

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Old 09-12-2007, 09:21 PM   #90
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anyway ranting posts aside the op story is pretty accurate lol. The first thing you absolutly have to do is start to farm so that you can accumulate massive amounts of cash to get your armor and spells, then quest and lock xp for your aa's necessary to survive for some. Though this isn't exactly a hard pvp game either. For 1 thing you don't have any restrictions on armor, which is pretty common with most other mmo's. It also has a 4 lv hitting rule which most don't have. I think this games pvp is about as easy as it gets.I cant even think of an easier pvp game. Even wow is ffa.
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