SOE killed casual gameplay

[TigerLotus]

After a break i returned to DoV to continue my adventures and to inspect GU61.I am already wearing PQ Armor and the remaining Items are from the old Raid-Gear.

I have spent Sunday evening looking for a group-instance in DoV as Defiler, without success (on Valor).There were a lot of players online, comparable to AB - but no lfg and no responses. Obviouslyall players were raiding or crafting, some were Twinking.

On other days of the week it's the same. Yesterday I managed (yeah) to get inside a group for Fortress Spires.We wiped once at the first named and the first player left the group. We managed to get a new player and wipeda couple of times and finaly we won It was often my fault, because I droped into holes or I did'nt manage to get closeto the mob in time. I was not feeling like playing a casual instance, it was stressing like a raid encounter. One reason are the scripts thatrequire a disciplined gameplay, the other reason is the massive amount of Hitpoints and DPS of the Mobs. With mycurrent potency and reuse speed it is a cramp to heal those encounters, concentrate the entire fight (that lasts long withlow dps) and to do the required movements. It is not impossible - but it is not the gameplay a casual would expect for a fun and relaxing group-play after a busy day.

Later the evening another member of our group left, we could not even find a replacement player.

The second thing are the drops: if you have low dps, your fights take a long time. So we did not finish the instance,because some players had to go to sleep. The outcome of this Evening where 2 chests and -40 Gold in the wallet.The archievment was also very poor.

I like hard instances, but there have to be instances for having fun, too. It is true, that these Instances are more of ax1 raid. Considered, that Fortress Spires it called one of the "easy" instances, I am asking myself, how I will be able toimprove my gear? Nothing has changed to the problem, that raidgear seams to be required to do those instancessuccessfully. I don't see a reason to introduce new, harder instances now - only as a Playground for Raider.

But the casuals have no playground any more. Nobody wants do do those x1 Raids with a pickup group. And this is killing casual gameplay.

[Lemilla]

Fortress Spire is not one of the easier DoV instances. The three ToFS zones (SC, UH and Haunt) except the nameds for the ToFSx2 access quest, and Pools/Ascent are a lot easier and more casual-friendly.

[Dasein]

[email protected] wrote:

Fortress Spire is not one of the easier DoV instances. The three ToFS zones (SC, UH and Haunt) except the nameds for the ToFSx2 access quest, and Pools/Ascent are a lot easier and more casual-friendly.

If the problem is with moving during an encounter, then you're not going to have much luck in any of those instances. Lord Bob, while certainly not nearly as hard as he was, requires a good degree of group coordination and movement, especially with low DPS.

UH requires quite a bit of movement on some fights, and is generally a rather annoying zone, especially if you're not vastly overgeared.

Haunt is pretty easy, unless you're killing Tserrina, which, again, is a tough fight unless you are overgeared. Sure, I can trivialize any of these zones by going in with a HM raid geared group, but taking a PuG in PQ gear through them is still a major chalenge.

[sargonnath]

I absolutely agree with you, Tigerlotus.

Not only its really hard to find a group at level 90 to do popular instances if you are unable to show the equipment that makes you eligible, but more than that, you rely on your equipement and some choregraphical moves that shall be performed in due times.

Nothing really involving the wise, the tactics, the abilities a normal player could show.

Meaning that, for example:- Mages mobs or priests come to contact if they silenced. They never stay away where you should reach them.- Two mobs in a group of ten should flee to warn for reinforcement, causing archers of the groups to kill them in emergency. Can you see that in EQ 2? Never! It would be too dangerous for players! They would have to be clever.- They are no random traps set. Scouts do not have to scout.- There no more really deadly trap on chests - the one that truely kills the whole group -, and no more poisons or diseases staying for 1 hour, are hard to cure, and cause often death like in EQ 1 where such impairments were found, in Oasis of Marr for example.- Mobs are told to never have tons of priest casting group heals or group wards spells. Nor that they use fear group spells, mez or stun. They do not have ability to make all the whole group focus on their tanks like a coercer of your group can do. They never focus all togheter on a single opponent willingly. All these behaviors, SOE avoided them. To allow players to use these strategies that mobs shall not to use for themselves.- EVERYTHING is known is advance. You manage to find the good group leader, the one who know the instance, because he knows: where are the mobs, the nameds, the buttons, the traps - if any -. It's not Everquest: its EverTheSame.

No can't prove yourself because there is no unforeseen. You are declared potent if you are well geared and know the scripts. Not if you can prove that you are a good player.

The goal is not that you prove that you are a good player with the only gear you have but your mind, but to forces you to wait until you have the proper gear, a gear which takes months of gaming because you can't have the good armor, jewelery, without having done a great amount of quests. By doing that, of course, you pay years and years of subscription...

You do not have to show how much you are ready and reacting well against unexpected events, mobs attacks, traps. You have to prove that you have spent two years in the game at least, and learned well all the wikia entries of where you are going to...The goal is to flatter people playing since a very long time, that have knowledge and gear by offering them places with no random, where everything is under their control. Not to challenge their immediate true playing skills at time. The ones that today can be good because your are in a good day but can be worse tomorrow. EQ 2 dungeons mean: EVERYTHING PREDICTIBLE. Therefore, casual players - even good ones - can't show their worth. Only the players that spent enough time to obtain gear and learned dungeons content by heart can, and are rewarded by the right to find a raid group to enter the popular raid they wish. And the game is now really elitist.

Yes, I agree. In a way its no more a game. It is more and more lacking fun.

Sargonnath.

[Wurm]

I said a couple threads ago that they are trying to put all their older players out to pasture or into the hospital and still feel that way now even after some of the nerfs that have happened in the last couple of months.

[Eugam]

Wurm wrote:

I said a couple threads ago that they are trying to put all their older players out to pasture or into the hospital and still feel that way now even after some of the nerfs that have happened in the last couple of months.

There are also old(er) devs out there creating very good games with solid gameplay.   I doubt it has something to do with old. No matter how old you are, if you take a summer break you dont have the stats and, whats worse, you dont know the strats.

[Loxus]

TigerLotus wrote:

After a break i returned to DoV to continue my adventures and to inspect GU61.I am already wearing PQ Armor and the remaining Items are from the old Raid-Gear.

I have spent Sunday evening looking for a group-instance in DoV as Defiler, without success (on Valor).There were a lot of players online, comparable to AB - but no lfg and no responses. Obviouslyall players were raiding or crafting, some were Twinking.

On other days of the week it's the same. Yesterday I managed (yeah) to get inside a group for Fortress Spires.We wiped once at the first named and the first player left the group. We managed to get a new player and wipeda couple of times and finaly we won It was often my fault, because I droped into holes or I did'nt manage to get closeto the mob in time. I was not feeling like playing a casual instance, it was stressing like a raid encounter. One reason are the scripts thatrequire a disciplined gameplay, the other reason is the massive amount of Hitpoints and DPS of the Mobs. With mycurrent potency and reuse speed it is a cramp to heal those encounters, concentrate the entire fight (that lasts long withlow dps) and to do the required movements. It is not impossible - but it is not the gameplay a casual would expect for a fun and relaxing group-play after a busy day.

Later the evening another member of our group left, we could not even find a replacement player.

The second thing are the drops: if you have low dps, your fights take a long time. So we did not finish the instance,because some players had to go to sleep. The outcome of this Evening where 2 chests and -40 Gold in the wallet.The archievment was also very poor.

I like hard instances, but there have to be instances for having fun, too. It is true, that these Instances are more of ax1 raid. Considered, that Fortress Spires it called one of the "easy" instances, I am asking myself, how I will be able toimprove my gear? Nothing has changed to the problem, that raidgear seams to be required to do those instancessuccessfully. I don't see a reason to introduce new, harder instances now - only as a Playground for Raider.

But the casuals have no playground any more. Nobody wants do do those x1 Raids with a pickup group. And this is killing casual gameplay.

I understand the frustration your feeling right now, believe me, we all felt it when this expansion launched.  It's nothing new really.  This expansion was a wakeup call for everyone casuals and raiders alike, However...

While I understand your wanting to hop right back in the saddle again expecting PQ gear and previous teir raid-gear to trivialize heroic content, statements expressed in your tread title and subsequent post are just plain incorrect.  SOE did not kill casual gameplay; it's alive and getting better. 

Clearly, DOV content doesn't have the "cheese-mode" easiness of SF content as you can see.  There have been HUGE changes to stats and values caps that you can't be anywhere near reaching with your current gear or AA amount.  The Progression path/requirements are a lot less flexible then any other time in the history of this game.  Walking into a lower, mid-teir instance with beginning tier armor, and 5 to 10 AA's out of 50, and MAYBE half the amount of Crit chance, crit bonus, and potency needed and expecting to own an instance like a rockstar is just nuts!

Are there problems with progression, itemization, and crit mit requirements in heroic zones? - HA!  More then you know, or I care to admit!  But I can also tell you that the lower tier instances have been tweeked to death while still remaining challenging and interesting and now exactly where they should be.  But that doesn't mean you can still walk in undergeared or at any point on the AA amount and wipe the floor with them.

Before you say it, I'm not a raider (at least not this expansion) I'm in all legendary shard gear and some fabled instance drops.  I don't buy raid loot and I've earned everything I'm wearing, so I'm not some raider or casual in EM or HM raid-gear trying to discount your post.  I've worked my way up through PQ gear to shard gear.  It's very doable, but you have to follow the progression path.  There is no free ride this expansion.

[CoLD MeTaL]

Basically, if you don't already have a 'regular' group, you raid or box.  PuGs have been dead a long time.

[Nolrog]

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Basically, if you don't already have a 'regular' group, you raid or box.  PuGs have been dead a long time.

Aren't they going to improve the LFG tool (possibly even make it cross server in the future) coming with the expansion that's not really an expansion but you'll have to pay anyway?

[Wurm]

Eugam wrote:

Wurm wrote:

I said a couple threads ago that they are trying to put all their older players out to pasture or into the hospital and still feel that way now even after some of the nerfs that have happened in the last couple of months.

There are also old(er) devs out there creating very good games with solid gameplay.   I doubt it has something to do with old. No matter how old you are, if you take a summer break you dont have the stats and, whats worse, you dont know the strats.

I know that strats, have the gear and have the skill. But with the click fest everything is becoming I am finding myself really tired after a night of tanking. That and my wrists are sore.

To use the first mob mentioned by the OP... does she really need to have that many hitpoints? I roll with a good group, I average well over 20K dps on my Paladin and it takes us a long time to kill her due to no other reason as her huge hitpoint pool. Its the same thing with the bookie and fighter later in the same instance... click fest click fest click fest.

When a game starts feeling like work due to silly things like giving a normal tank and spank mob a couple of million hitpoints then something is wrong.

*edit* I'd rather do more platform jumping like Lord Bob than fight a mob for 20 mins due to its hitpoint pool.

[Wurm]

[email protected] wrote:

 I've worked my way up through PQ gear to shard gear.  It's very doable, but you have to follow the progression path.  There is no free ride this expansion.

Very true.

[CoLD MeTaL]

Nolrog wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Basically, if you don't already have a 'regular' group, you raid or box.  PuGs have been dead a long time.

Aren't they going to improve the LFG tool (possibly even make it cross server in the future) coming with the expansion that's not really an expansion but you'll have to pay anyway?

That depends on how it is implemented.  Really this is not a $OE problem, but a playerbase problem that will spend 2 hours looking for a specific class to do the zone in 10 minutes instead of taking someone available and it taking 30-40 minutes to complete the zone.

Although it has been dicey to complete a zone with a PuG since Moors and a little before that when heroic zones became mini raids due to over the top scripting.

If you don't know the zone already no one will take you, that and gear and AA.

[JazzMaus]

TigerLotus wrote:

But the casuals have no playground any more. Nobody wants do do those x1 Raids with a pickup group. And this is killing casual gameplay.

The whole world is my playground, & since I couldn't care less about raiding, I also can't at all agree with your claim: not raiding has nothing at all to do with my casual gameplay.

[Nrgy]

This thread should have been posted on EQFlames .. that way the OP would be able to actually get a truthful answer.  This forum will not allow a truthful answer to the OP's real issues due to being heavily Mod'ed.

[Yimway]

Nolrog wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Basically, if you don't already have a 'regular' group, you raid or box.  PuGs have been dead a long time.

Aren't they going to improve the LFG tool (possibly even make it cross server in the future) coming with the expansion that's not really an expansion but you'll have to pay anyway?

Is a LFG tool really going to work at end-game?

I mean, look at current tier instances and the heavy scripting used in them.  Are you really going to trust a dungeon finder tool to provide you with a group of people capable of not only playing their class, but doing so while doing the intricate dance steps each encounter script requires?

Dungeon finder sounds awesome to me for levels 10-85, where neary any viable mix of classes can do any dungeon in those tiers, however at end tier that is not the case and I feel would be less rewarding as a result.

The reason people cant find pugs is there aren't enough reasons to do pugs.  The loot is carptastic and offers no incentive to do it.

[TigerLotus]

[email protected] wrote:

Fortress Spire is not one of the easier DoV instances. The three ToFS zones (SC, UH and Haunt) except the nameds for the ToFSx2 access quest, and Pools/Ascent are a lot easier and more casual-friendly.

I heard that ToFS Gear is not better than PQ gear. I have been there before pausing, and there was nothing interesting for me. Have they changed things there?

[agnott]

It's an MMO. It's hard to believe the devs never really worked on player interaction outside of fighting. Especially since the same company created the best blue print on how to do it in SWG.

It changes everything when you have to depend on players to get the things you need.

For those who never played.

• For buffs you would seek out Doctors  (who usually gathered in the same spot)
• When fighting you would get "Fatigue" and would need to go to a cantina and get a player entertainer to remove it
• Crafting was more interactive in SWG  ...you have had to go the player house alot more often  ...and for some reason you really enjoyed doing it.

All of these little interactions build the foundations you need for a great MMO. Asking to join a group should be the last form of interaction in a game  ....not the first one.

[TigerLotus]

sargonnath wrote:

...

No can't prove yourself because there is no unforeseen. You are declared potent if you are well geared and know the scripts. Not if you can prove that you are a good player.

The goal is not that you prove that you are a good player with the only gear you have but your mind, but to forces you to wait until you have the proper gear, a gear which takes months of gaming because you can't have the good armor, jewelery, without having done a great amount of quests. By doing that, of course, you pay years and years of subscription...

You do not have to show how much you are ready and reacting well against unexpected events, mobs attacks, traps. You have to prove that you have spent two years in the game at least, and learned well all the wikia entries of where you are going to...

You are right. The way they "rebuild" the enchanter ability daydream to a simple dot shows the same.The encounters provide no flexibility for different classes or different gameplay.Healing is boring (with my gear) as well, because I have to chainheal anyway, so no matter what spellis up, I cast it - so I have a chance to heal the next hit - if the ward is used up. No need to think,which heal or which ward could be best now.

So I have the feeling, that potency, reuse speed, and the remainung aa are in my way for success - notthe the "personal skill". It's the other way, I think the personal skill (knowing the way the own spells work)is declining. The replace this with "Tombraider-Gameplay" Elements, that not everybody playing an mmorpglikes. I liked them in action adventures or shooters like Halflife, but not in EQ2 with those dark and muddy graphicsand this controls :/

I would appreciate less strict and more flexible gameplay, mezz mobs again, fear adds, do some things other thandps. Make Healing more than chaincasting,make Enchanter Enchanter again, and make Debuffing and Buffing moreinteresting again.

[JazzMaus]

[email protected] wrote:

Are you really going to trust a dungeon finder tool to provide you with a group of people capable of not only playing their class, but doing so while doing the intricate dance steps each encounter script requires?

It works well enough in WoW & even in Rift, where there is IMO at least as much script-dancing. Beyond that, the existence of a LFD tool does not preclude player communication; nothing prevents people from stopping before a fight & making sure everyone knows how it goes.

[TigerLotus]

[email protected] wrote:

...

While I understand your wanting to hop right back in the saddle again expecting PQ gear and previous teir raid-gear to trivialize heroic content, statements expressed in your tread title and subsequent post are just plain incorrect.  SOE did not kill casual gameplay; it's alive and getting better. 

Clearly, DOV content doesn't have the "cheese-mode" easiness of SF content as you can see.  There have been HUGE changes to stats and values caps that you can't be anywhere near reaching with your current gear or AA amount.  The Progression path/requirements are a lot less flexible then any other time in the history of this game.  Walking into a lower, mid-teir instance with beginning tier armor, and 5 to 10 AA's out of 50, and MAYBE half the amount of Crit chance, crit bonus, and potency needed and expecting to own an instance like a rockstar is just nuts!

Are there problems with progression, itemization, and crit mit requirements in heroic zones? - HA!  More then you know, or I care to admit!  But I can also tell you that the lower tier instances have been tweeked to death while still remaining challenging and interesting and now exactly where they should be.  But that doesn't mean you can still walk in undergeared or at any point on the AA amount and wipe the floor with them.

Before you say it, I'm not a raider (at least not this expansion) I'm in all legendary shard gear and some fabled instance drops.  I don't buy raid loot and I've earned everything I'm wearing, so I'm not some raider or casual in EM or HM raid-gear trying to discount your post.  I've worked my way up through PQ gear to shard gear.  It's very doable, but you have to follow the progression path.  There is no free ride this expansion.

I don't feel like gameplay is alive. It is taking way to long to find/form a group, or to find a replacement.On EU-Valor the dungeonfinder will be of no use I fear, because it will not connect with US-Servers.But my experiences on US-Antonia Bayle were disappointing as well, especially the harsh tone in level-chat,and the secret co-existence of the "rp-gamers" in their own "secret" chat were they were writing permanently ooc.This is not the way a rp flagged server should look like.

I will try to build up groups for the instances, that have been suggested here, but I am not sure, if it is possibleoutdide of the weekend. And on Weekends there are the raids again...

I did not like the easy tank&spank either. Some challange is good. But it is still tank&spank+jump&run But I know people who like easy content, who just want to have fun - but want to do instances and playin groups - should this people only do pre-DoV content?. Maybe there should be some fun&easy instances onPQ-Gear level to. Even ToFS is not fun&easy.

[Yimway]

JazzMaus wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Are you really going to trust a dungeon finder tool to provide you with a group of people capable of not only playing their class, but doing so while doing the intricate dance steps each encounter script requires?

It works well enough in WoW & even in Rift, where there is IMO at least as much script-dancing. Beyond that, the existence of a LFD tool does not preclude player communication; nothing prevents people from stopping before a fight & making sure everyone knows how it goes.

Having played those tittles and the drunder heroic zones, I feel the tolerances between these games are not remotely the same.

[TigerLotus]

JazzMaus wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Are you really going to trust a dungeon finder tool to provide you with a group of people capable of not only playing their class, but doing so while doing the intricate dance steps each encounter script requires?

It works well enough in WoW & even in Rift, where there is IMO at least as much script-dancing. Beyond that, the existence of a LFD tool does not preclude player communication; nothing prevents people from stopping before a fight & making sure everyone knows how it goes.

You are right.. it is strange that this social-skills seem to degenerate more and more. It is always so hecticlike on Summer Sale But the more "automation" the devs build into a game, the less the players do on their own.Sadly the automation- and simplification-trend can be found in most mmo.

[SmokeJumper]

Dungeon Finder will help you find groups a lot more easily. Once you find those groups, what you do with them is up to you. But internal testing is really positive.

It's also going to provide information about suggested Crit Mit on the Velious dungeons so that you understand where your Crit Mit stacks up against the dungeon you want to explore. This should help you from jumping into a dungeon that's beyond your current ability.

[Banditman]

SmokeJumper wrote:

Dungeon Finder will help you find groups a lot more easily. Once you find those groups, what you do with them is up to you. But internal testing is really positive.

It's also going to provide information about suggested Crit Mit on the Velious dungeons so that you understand where your Crit Mit stacks up against the dungeon you want to explore. This should help you from jumping into a dungeon that's beyond your current ability.

If the Dungeon Finder allows a "Planetside-esque" template for building a group, you will have a winner.  You know what I'm talking about.

[Yimway]

SmokeJumper wrote:

Dungeon Finder will help you find groups a lot more easily. Once you find those groups, what you do with them is up to you. But internal testing is really positive.

It's also going to provide information about suggested Crit Mit on the Velious dungeons so that you understand where your Crit Mit stacks up against the dungeon you want to explore. This should help you from jumping into a dungeon that's beyond your current ability.

Critmit isn't the determining factor for player ability.  Not for your upper tier dungeons.  CM is just a baseline requirement that many people can obtain.  The ability to actually execute the scripts within the tolerances given is not within the majority of the player's capability (at least from the pugs I've seen).

Dungeon finder will be great for lower levels and/or easy tier dungeons.  For zones that I have to not only rely on the player having the stats needed but also some modicum of skill, dungeon finder likely will not be a tool I'd want to engage.

[DuneWarrior]

[email protected] wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

Dungeon Finder will help you find groups a lot more easily. Once you find those groups, what you do with them is up to you. But internal testing is really positive.

It's also going to provide information about suggested Crit Mit on the Velious dungeons so that you understand where your Crit Mit stacks up against the dungeon you want to explore. This should help you from jumping into a dungeon that's beyond your current ability.

Critmit isn't the determining factor for player ability.  Not for your upper tier dungeons.  CM is just a baseline requirement that many people can obtain.  The ability to actually execute the scripts within the tolerances given is not within the majority of the player's capability (at least from the pugs I've seen).

Dungeon finder will be great for lower levels and/or easy tier dungeons.  For zones that I have to not only rely on the player having the stats needed but also some modicum of skill, dungeon finder likely will not be a tool I'd want to engage.

^^This^^

Ability/skill <> Stats at a certain level.

[Jrral]

TigerLotus wrote:

I heard that ToFS Gear is not better than PQ gear. I have been there before pausing, and there was nothing interesting for me. Have they changed things there?

The armor there is a bit below Triumphant PQ gear, probably on a par with Victorious. Adequate for moving up into Velketor's, but Triumphant gear's got the edge. OTOH, if you're moving a main through you're going to get all that dropped armor (and probably some better out of Velketor's) anyway which you can pass down to an alt and not need to grind as many PQs for that alt. I think it's designed that way: you have to grind PQs once to get gear, after that you've got a second source of in-the-ballpark gear for your other characters.

[Lantis]

SmokeJumper wrote:

Dungeon Finder will help you find groups a lot more easily. Once you find those groups, what you do with them is up to you. But internal testing is really positive.

It's also going to provide information about suggested Crit Mit on the Velious dungeons so that you understand where your Crit Mit stacks up against the dungeon you want to explore. This should help you from jumping into a dungeon that's beyond your current ability.

I don't think a Dungeon Finder will be a solution.  People already know they can use Level Chat to advertise for LFG or LFM.  The thing is, since DoV, the majority of people stopped running instances.  Two factors IMHO:

1) Public Quests.  I loved the idea when it came on Live, and I now despise it.  People run hourly PQs on their army of alt to get virtually free loot for 5-7 mins spent wandering around and casting a spell or two.  Making PQs hourly is what killed it, since someone with 3 alts might spend all night just running a PQ, going AFK, coming back with another toon for the next PQ, and so on for the whole evening.  Then, they log off for the night.

My suggestion: reduce the frequency of PQs.  There shouldn't be a new PQ every hour, as that leaves about only 30 mins per hour for PUGging (10 mins AFK waiting at the PQ area, 10 mins PQ, and 10 mins spent forming up a PUG).  Make them every three hours for example, so people have plenty of time to run a PUG between two PQs.

2) The difficulty level since SF is getting rough for casual players.  A lot of instances requires gear, skill and knowledge of the zone.   That means 2/3 of the instances aren't doable by a regular PUG.  And people with the know-how don't want to spend 5 mins per named encounter to explain the whole strategy to first-timers.  That leaves on average 2-3 instances per expansion, which some people run ad nauseum.

My suggestion: establish a better progression curve with instances.  Someone having PQ + instance 1-2 gear should have the necessary gear and skill to run instances 3 and 4.  Right now, it's more like you have 2 instances for casual, maybe one for a well-geared casual player, and the rest is only doable (without feeling like rage-quitting 10 times) with at least half of the people in raid gear.

And there is also the loot factor: instance loot is bland and boring.  It's hard to be motivated to run a 1 hour instance to *maybe* get a piece of gear that will show a 0.5% increase over that piece of loot you can easily get by going semi-AFK every hour in a PUG.  Rewards need to be more exciting than just a few generic numbers.  But to be honest, that is a general issue with DOV loot in general, both instanced and raid.

[TigerLotus]

SmokeJumper wrote:

Dungeon Finder will help you find groups a lot more easily. Once you find those groups, what you do with them is up to you. But internal testing is really positive.

It's also going to provide information about suggested Crit Mit on the Velious dungeons so that you understand where your Crit Mit stacks up against the dungeon you want to explore. This should help you from jumping into a dungeon that's beyond your current ability.

You talk about something like "item-level", one of the things I hate most If I remember correctly "item-level"was first used in Diablo to classify items with adornments in their requirements, preventing players from using overpowereditems. Nowadays it has become something like a "entrance qualification" for instances. If there are only two or threegroups forming (in levelchat - i can't see guild-internal groups) and they all want to do instances "above my itemlevel" -should I sit still and watch others playing without me? If there is such a thing like a item-level, it should be optimal,but it should not be a minimum requirement, like a filter. If you force players with less itemlevel to do certain instances and there are no groups for those - you lock this players ot of the game.It should be like in good old days, were groups took even under-level players with them and said "he will not help, but we could have made it with 5, and there was a free slot.The way things are working now, players, who are locked out of gameplay due to their equipment have to buytheir stuff from raiders, or need some raider (everything is to easy because we are overpowered ) friends, whoare willing to do those instances with them. Raiding is the most  attractive way to equip yourself, casual gameplaymust be more attractive again.

Honestly I often have the feeling, that the developers impression on the needs and problems of the casualsis a wrong one. Not because they prefer raiders - but because the raiders are the obsessed players, who domore testing and give most of the feedback. Casuals are largely not the typ of players, that like testing andcaculating stats and their effect. But because Raiders have different requirements, different likings andjudge casual content different than casuals, the forum feedback -especially for testserver- is primarily thevoice of the raiders.

[TigerLotus]

Banditman wrote:

If the Dungeon Finder allows a "Planetside-esque" template for building a group, you will have a winner.  You know what I'm talking about.

And if the DF is server-only, I am not sure, if there are "more" groups like before.I have no problem looking for a group and typing 'till my fingers glow But if there are no reactions, it is no use.If Smoki and his Team are planing on an cross-Server-DF, I hope they includenon-US Servers. Otherwise it will be as "successfully" as cross-Server-PvP