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Old 07-29-2011, 03:02 PM   #1
Corydonn

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Please please PLEASE for the love of EQ2 don't push this raidzone in the GU. It's definately clear that this raidzone has barely been worked on and I think it'd be best left for GU62, Why?

-The current raid zones on live still have alot of clearing and some even still need more tweaks, You should definately fix those before moving to another.

-The storyline has us earning the respect of the 3 Zek Siblings for a fight with Rallos Zek... Well we haven't even gotten past the first mob in trying to get Sullon Zek to aid our cause, It's pretty crappy the storyline will go on without even giving us a chance.

-The third raid zone hasn't even been unlocked on live, Who knows if it is even finished.

-There is TONS of raiding content already in the game and another zone is just going to be another rush to get everything done farmed and locked out. I don't even see Hardcore guilds keeping up with another two raid zones of Vallon and Plane of War.

-This zone is intended for those of HM Drunder gear, By the time players actually obtain this and start hitting Plane of War. Gu63 will have hit with another raid zone I'm sure and what's left of the raiders isn't going to be pretty since the live stuff needs to be worked on rather than new things.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:04 PM   #2
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Corydonn wrote:

Please please PLEASE for the love of EQ2 don't push this raidzone in the GU. It's definately clear that this raidzone has barely been worked on and I think it'd be best left for GU62, Why?

-The current raid zones on live still have alot of clearing and some even still need more tweaks, You should definately fix those before moving to another.

-The storyline has us earning the respect of the 3 Zek Siblings for a fight with Rallos Zek... Well we haven't even gotten past the first mob in trying to get Sullon Zek to aid our cause, It's pretty crappy the storyline will go on without even giving us a chance.

-The third raid zone hasn't even been unlocked on live, Who knows if it is even finished.

-There is TONS of raiding content already in the game and another zone is just going to be another rush to get everything done farmed and locked out. I don't even see Hardcore guilds keeping up with another two raid zones of Vallon and Plane of War.

-This zone is intended for those of HM Drunder gear, By the time players actually obtain this and start hitting Plane of War. Gu63 will have hit with another raid zone I'm sure and what's left of the raiders isn't going to be pretty since the live stuff needs to be worked on rather than new things.

The heroic zone as well, many people can't even do drundar 1, much less a NEW zone.

This patch should be dedicated to redoing item stats / aas only!

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:06 PM   #3
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Agree with Corydonn.

Drunder heroic instances seem fine, however.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:07 PM   #4
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ChrissyFaey wrote:

Agree with Corydonn.

Drunder heroic instances seem fine, however.

They will both be untested, people are worried about fixing aas/stats/level caps to test raid zones/the new heroic.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:09 PM   #5
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Are you actually complaining about too much content?  Huh.  And here I thought I had heard it all.

In my view, aside from seriously broken fighter class balance (i.e., brawlers are the toughest and highest single-target DPS raid tanks, rendering guardians irrelevant), I think the game is in a better state than it has been since KoS. 

Kudos to you, Smokejumper.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:15 PM   #6
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[email protected] wrote:

Are you actually complaining about too much content?  Huh.  And here I thought I had heard it all.

In my view, aside from seriously broken fighter class balance (i.e., brawlers are the toughest and highest single-target DPS raid tanks, rendering guardians irrelevant), I think the game is in a better state than it has been since KoS. 

Kudos to you, Smokejumper.

I'm complaining that 2/3 of the content released last GU is unusable, HM Sullon and Tallon and Both Vallons, And now they are pushing for a raid zone that the designers don't have time to work on and will likely become unusable as well.

P.S. I'd hate to respond to you with a L2P and go offtopic but... Yeah sorry you can't manage the SK level of DPS I see other guardians do for a spot while increasing raid survivability up the jibbers and tanking everything a brawler can if not better <3. But I do agree brawlers are OP but Guardians aren't the ones to complain!

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:15 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

Are you actually complaining about too much content?  Huh.  And here I thought I had heard it all.

In my view, aside from seriously broken fighter class balance (i.e., brawlers are the toughest and highest single-target DPS raid tanks, rendering guardians irrelevant), I think the game is in a better state than it has been since KoS. 

Kudos to you, Smokejumper.

This ^    --but cannot comment on the Fighter thing

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:21 PM   #8
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They can't postpone Plane until GU62 because GU62 is the expansion and it has a raid zone as well~

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:22 PM   #9
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Gaige wrote:

They can't postpone Plane until GU62 because GU62 is the expansion and it has a raid zone as well~

Well then they need some more raid designers if they intend to keep up with things actually working... SMILEY

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:23 PM   #10
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Its been like this since launch, save an instance or three per expansion.  Roger keeps up just fine, only thing blocking HM Drunder is CM/CB.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:27 PM   #11
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Meh, we can never have too much content, and they always tweak raids after they go Live anyway.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:32 PM   #12
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Gaige wrote:

Its been like this since launch, save an instance or three per expansion.  Roger keeps up just fine, only thing blocking HM Drunder is CM/CB.

Except there is no high end guilds testing the content on test like they had since launch. <3

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:37 PM   #13
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Push it out and fix it later. Hardcre raider can take one for the team and be testers. Everyone seems to blame them for everything bad why not let them contribute some good as well now.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:52 PM   #14
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Corydonn wrote:

Please please PLEASE for the love of EQ2 don't push this raidzone in the GU. It's definately clear that this raidzone has barely been worked on and I think it'd be best left for GU62, Why?

-The current raid zones on live still have alot of clearing and some even still need more tweaks, You should definately fix those before moving to another.

-The storyline has us earning the respect of the 3 Zek Siblings for a fight with Rallos Zek... Well we haven't even gotten past the first mob in trying to get Sullon Zek to aid our cause, It's pretty crappy the storyline will go on without even giving us a chance.

-The third raid zone hasn't even been unlocked on live, Who knows if it is even finished.

-There is TONS of raiding content already in the game and another zone is just going to be another rush to get everything done farmed and locked out. I don't even see Hardcore guilds keeping up with another two raid zones of Vallon and Plane of War.

-This zone is intended for those of HM Drunder gear, By the time players actually obtain this and start hitting Plane of War. Gu63 will have hit with another raid zone I'm sure and what's left of the raiders isn't going to be pretty since the live stuff needs to be worked on rather than new things.

The Plane of War raid zone will not unlock until you have earned the respect of the 3 Zeks. So it will be ready for you when you are ready for it.

We have lots a adjustments planned and coming as well. *edit* for the current content.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:52 PM   #15
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Corydonn wrote:

Except there is no high end guilds testing the content on test like they had since launch. <3

NPU used to I guess, but it rarely helped.  GU launched raid zones were always supremely buggy.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:57 PM   #16
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Kander wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Please please PLEASE for the love of EQ2 don't push this raidzone in the GU. It's definately clear that this raidzone has barely been worked on and I think it'd be best left for GU62, Why?

-The current raid zones on live still have alot of clearing and some even still need more tweaks, You should definately fix those before moving to another.

-The storyline has us earning the respect of the 3 Zek Siblings for a fight with Rallos Zek... Well we haven't even gotten past the first mob in trying to get Sullon Zek to aid our cause, It's pretty crappy the storyline will go on without even giving us a chance.

-The third raid zone hasn't even been unlocked on live, Who knows if it is even finished.

-There is TONS of raiding content already in the game and another zone is just going to be another rush to get everything done farmed and locked out. I don't even see Hardcore guilds keeping up with another two raid zones of Vallon and Plane of War.

-This zone is intended for those of HM Drunder gear, By the time players actually obtain this and start hitting Plane of War. Gu63 will have hit with another raid zone I'm sure and what's left of the raiders isn't going to be pretty since the live stuff needs to be worked on rather than new things.

The Plane of War raid zone will not unlock until you have earned the respect of the 3 Zeks. So it will be ready for you when you are ready for it.

We have lots a adjustments planned and coming as well. *edit* for the current content.

Alright thanks! This explains it all then.

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Old 07-29-2011, 07:20 PM   #17
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If I remember correctly these raid zones are already completed and they are just pushing them off the queue to get them out of way so the devs can move on the other projects.

The cynic in me tells me that when the game has a suffiecent back log of untouched raid zone the raid devs will just be reassigned elsewhere or...

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:04 PM   #18
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Corydonn wrote:

P.S. I'd hate to respond to you with a L2P and go offtopic but... Yeah sorry you can't manage the SK level of DPS I see other guardians do for a spot while increasing raid survivability up the jibbers and tanking everything a brawler can if not better <3. But I do agree brawlers are OP but Guardians aren't the ones to complain!

Funny how you think you know jack about how I play. 

Me, I go by personal observations and facts rather than unsubstantiated assumptions: 1) the number one raid guild in the world, Surreal, has gotten a lot of their worldwide first kills with a monk tank, 2) more and more top 20 guilds use brawler MT's.

Why would that be, if guardians have so "leet" DPS and "tank everything a brawler can if not better"?  High-end guilds use whatever they have to in order to get ahead, and if that means availing themselves of a brawler MT due to superior survivability, single-target DPS, hate generation, and utility, then so be it.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:05 PM   #19
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Novusod wrote:

The cynic in me tells me that when the game has a suffiecent back log of untouched raid zone the raid devs will just be reassigned elsewhere or...

Roger doesn't do other things~

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Why would that be, if guardians have so "leet" DPS and "tank everything a brawler can if not better"?  High-end guilds use whatever they have to in order to get ahead, and if that means availing themselves of a brawler MT due to superior survivability, single-target DPS, hate generation, and utility, then so be it.

We've killed everything in DoV with a guardian MT~

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:11 PM   #20
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Gaige wrote:

Novusod wrote:

The cynic in me tells me that when the game has a suffiecent back log of untouched raid zone the raid devs will just be reassigned elsewhere or...

Roger doesn't do other things~

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Why would that be, if guardians have so "leet" DPS and "tank everything a brawler can if not better"?  High-end guilds use whatever they have to in order to get ahead, and if that means availing themselves of a brawler MT due to superior survivability, single-target DPS, hate generation, and utility, then so be it.

We've killed everything in DoV with a guardian MT~

I know you have.  What I'm saying is, you would have done it sooner if you had been using a monk MT.

Guardians aren't broken.  Monks and bruisers are.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:12 PM   #21
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[email protected] wrote:

Me, I go by personal observations and facts rather than unsubstantiated assumptions: 1) the number one raid guild in the world, Surreal, has gotten a lot of their worldwide first kills with a monk tank, 2) more and more top 20 guilds use brawler MT's.

Really? I go by my personal playing in the top 20 guilds and knowing the mechanics and what a good guardian can do. See the Gaige quote above.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:15 PM   #22
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Gaige wrote:

Novusod wrote:

The cynic in me tells me that when the game has a suffiecent back log of untouched raid zone the raid devs will just be reassigned elsewhere or...

Roger doesn't do other things~

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Why would that be, if guardians have so "leet" DPS and "tank everything a brawler can if not better"?  High-end guilds use whatever they have to in order to get ahead, and if that means availing themselves of a brawler MT due to superior survivability, single-target DPS, hate generation, and utility, then so be it.

We've killed everything in DoV with a guardian MT~

While this has got nothing to do with brawlers, I'm pretty sure you guys would have stuck with Jeal (a paladin) as MT if he had been able to keep up with your raid schedule and you hadn't been left with Iguard as effectively your only tank.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:20 PM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

While this has got nothing to do with brawlers, I'm pretty sure you guys would have stuck with Jeal (a paladin) as MT if he had been able to keep up with your raid schedule and you hadn't been left with Iguard as effectively your only tank.

Sure, but we used him when everyone else was saying paladins were terrible.  Just like we use Iguards now when everyone is saying guardians are terrible~

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:21 PM   #24
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Corydonn wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Me, I go by personal observations and facts rather than unsubstantiated assumptions: 1) the number one raid guild in the world, Surreal, has gotten a lot of their worldwide first kills with a monk tank, 2) more and more top 20 guilds use brawler MT's.

Really? I go by my personal playing in the top 20 guilds and knowing the mechanics and what a good guardian can do. See the Gaige quote above.

Meanwhile, I am one of those good guardians, one who has been raid MT'ing since this game came out, and I know as much as any player about EQ2 game mechanics--surely more than you, if one were to judge solely by the misinformation you are spreading.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:22 PM   #25
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[email protected] wrote:

Gaige wrote:

Novusod wrote:

The cynic in me tells me that when the game has a suffiecent back log of untouched raid zone the raid devs will just be reassigned elsewhere or...

Roger doesn't do other things~

[email protected] wrote:

Why would that be, if guardians have so "leet" DPS and "tank everything a brawler can if not better"?  High-end guilds use whatever they have to in order to get ahead, and if that means availing themselves of a brawler MT due to superior survivability, single-target DPS, hate generation, and utility, then so be it.

We've killed everything in DoV with a guardian MT~

While this has got nothing to do with brawlers, I'm pretty sure you guys would have stuck with Jeal (a paladin) as MT if he had been able to keep up with your raid schedule and you hadn't been left with Iguard as effectively your only tank.

Also, Right now I would love to have a guardian apply to Azure Skies for tanking. Raidwide HP buffs and AE avoidance for all the other tanks.The only real tank that should be complaining about not being able to tank in raids is SK right now.

P.S. Pretty sure Surreal used a Guardian tanking the Dragon on Tormax.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:29 PM   #26
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Gaige wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

While this has got nothing to do with brawlers, I'm pretty sure you guys would have stuck with Jeal (a paladin) as MT if he had been able to keep up with your raid schedule and you hadn't been left with Iguard as effectively your only tank.

Sure, but we used him when everyone else was saying paladins were terrible.  Just like we use Iguards now when everyone is saying guardians are terrible~

I, for one, am not saying guardians are terrible.  In fact, I think we are in better shape than we've been since RoK (back when we were in the position brawlers are now, with the best single-target DPS and hate generation and vastly superior survivability). 

I'd like to see some issues regarding our utility fixed (e.g., extended range on group death preventer and HP buffs that scale with stat inflation) and some more sword-and-board hate generation, but aside from that, I don't think the class needs major changes.

On the other hand, some other classes need nerfs, since they are way too powerful at the moment.  The obvious example is the monk class, which currently sports the highest single-target DPS among fighters combined with the lowest taken damage and the best "oh-[Removed for Content]" abilities.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:43 PM   #27
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You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:48 PM   #28
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You do not know anything about monks man. Get one to 90 and try to tank something with it. THeir free DPS is useless in tanking as soon as there is almost no any treat generation except DPS. So you just have to deal with 400k dps from wizard with your 100k+some agro from your 2 taunts. Thank the god if you have cool setup every raid with 2 agro transfers, 2 agrobuffs and all dpsers have -30-50% hategain on them. If anything missing - you will have great problems.

Only point that they deal more dps than any other tanks (in solotarget only btw) and more survivability vs phisical damage do not make them best tanks.

DPS is just a way of holding agro and it isn't even close enough for it. Even more - our guardian sometimes DPS more than me.

Not mentioning the fact that monk's have almost useless nowdays raidbuff and no groupbuffs, except 1 temporary combat mastery 12 sec's in 2 min's that gives something only to 1 rogue in group really.

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Old 07-30-2011, 02:19 AM   #29
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This old arguement comes up from time to time as Guardians and other plate tanks want their monopoly back. Thankfully the game doesn't work like that anymore. The plate tanks actually have competition now with brawlers on a level playing field. Monopoly tanking is over and never coming back so get over it already and move on. If your not tanking up to par and dying alot blame your healers or blame yourself but it is a poor craftsman that blames his tools.

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Old 07-30-2011, 04:40 AM   #30
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I would rather there be a list of stuff to be killed next than sit around and wait for more content...

As it is now we have a good amount of content waiting to be killed.  I for one like that they are doing a "controled release" progression effectivally reducing the amount of time spent in farm mode.  With the new content being released as the raid progression moves on I feel like there is always something new to do.

Now can we get some variaty in armor?  everyone looks the same!

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