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Old 10-20-2014, 02:29 AM   #1
Edgwynne

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brought my defiler to beta to test out, and realized after working and talking with other healers, that my wards aren't critting the way other classes do. They're out healing me by at least 25 to 200% because they get the legendary, fabled and mythical crits. (We have comparable stats and gear)

We defilers really need some dev love. Please acknowledge and fix it for us this expac or we will die out as a breed... who needs a gimpy healer? The answer is not re-roll a druid.
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:28 AM   #2
Kiry

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Mystic wards do not crit either it's already been noted on another thread only the heals attached to wards crit but not the wards themselves, but hey they didn't crit for most of ToV either.
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:32 AM   #3
Anunnaki

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I was in a heroic with a Mystic and a Warden. The Mystic doesn't raid, so he has all Heroic gear (a few overcharged), and he out-healed a Maw equipped Warden. Almost by double. :dunno: I guess results may vary.
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Old 10-20-2014, 01:39 PM   #4
Kiry

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1. I'd hope the mystic out healed the waden since wards count before HoTs , this is why heal parses mean nothing.

2. the difference between heroic and "raid" gear is so small now it's almost negligible

3. wards should crit just like all other healers' heals do, this is a BUG.
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Old 10-20-2014, 03:08 PM   #5
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just reiterating Kiry's last point. wards definitely should crit - as per developer post they are supposed to have the same benefit as anything else that's subject to the new crit system (see crit thread AoM boards)

this is bugged and has been reported since like day 1 of beta. so far we've had no specific dev response to the bug reports though
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Old 10-20-2014, 04:49 PM   #6
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Who your tank is here is a big difference. If your tank is running good rotations on Stoneskins, or avoiding/mitigating most the damage then the Priest/Druid heals don't heal for anything. You could see that back even in RoK if the tank takes 0 damage then priest/druid heals = 0. Wards are consumed first so if a tank takes only a small amount of damage that we can prevent the priest/druid again still heals for 0.

The issue becomes if the tank is taking 2 million damage we can only ward/heal for 300k and Druids can heal for 1 million there's clearly an imbalance. Sometimes you see it, sometimes you don't. Depends on the zone, tank, and rest of group makeup.

In any zone I've been in if the tank takes more damage than I can ward I get out parsed by Priest/Druids. Group damage also highly benefits druids since our group ward is generally eaten by the tank. Not sure how priests fair with group stuff don't remember if their group triggers are per person or group collective like wards.
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Old 10-20-2014, 10:23 PM   #7
Anunnaki

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1. Exactly my point.
2. I wouldnt go that far.
3. Yeah, I'm not saying they shouldn't, just saying that if you are getting out healed by 200%, an occasional fabled/myth crit probably isnt the reason.
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Old 10-20-2014, 10:31 PM   #8
Arieste

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Yay! You're alive Smile
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:15 AM   #9
Xelgad

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Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:44 AM   #10
Neiloch

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Should check the DPS parse as well. Druid in a heroic group with a shaman, wouldn't surprise me in the least if they were forgoing a lot of healing to do some DPS.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:58 AM   #11
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Druids don't have to forgo much healing to dps.. in fact if they don't dps at all, their healing will be less then if they dps at least some.
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:01 AM   #12
Neiloch

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Should see the druids I have grouped with, think their regular wizards up until people start dropping. Real fun when they are solo healing too. GO PICK UPS!
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:03 AM   #13
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Sounds like me when I do level agnostic dungeons on my Warden or Fury. Smile
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:34 AM   #14
Kurei Hitaka

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XD Am I the only sane healer left? Saying this as someone who has only recently grown attached to his healer...
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:48 AM   #15
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It depends if you think that any healer who likes to dps 'isn't a sane healer' or only those more concerned about dps are the insane ones Wink
I like to push out as much dps as I can... while keeping my group alive and stable and buffing group dps as much as possible too. I'll forgoe personal dps buffs for group dps buffs every time.
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:31 AM   #16
Xelgad

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We're looking into the new criticals not working with wards. This is a bug.
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Old 10-21-2014, 07:58 PM   #17
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Endymion and I have implemented a fix for wards and the new critical types, along with some chat logging for them.

On top of that, we have removed the penalty that wards take when they critically apply.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:37 PM   #18
Kiry

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I would - there's a reason I take OFF my maw raid gear and replace it with heroic obtained stuff when I run heroics...
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:42 AM   #19
Anunnaki

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The only reason this is true is because the uplifting/practiced pieces dont reach full increments in heroics. Calling those pieces "negligible" is not accurate. Maybe *in* a heroic, which I guess is what we are discussing here, so fair enough.
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:22 AM   #20
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Just to clarify a point that's off topic in this thread, but I felt it worth mentioning:

We absolutely intend for raid gear (specifically effects) to be the best (most of the time, baring super rare drops and other special items and effects) in raids, and we intend for heroic gear to be close to best in slot if not best in slot when doing heroic content. The effects are tuned and designed by content type - we give solo effects to solo items, group effects to group items and raid effects to raid items.

Some items from heroic zones may be super good in raids, and some raid items may be super good in groups - and the Systems Team is okay with this.

That said, if you wish to talk about itemization and power growth from items, please direct that traffic towards the itemization forum for beta.
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:35 AM   #21
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So, basically like how uplifting isn't good in instances but we are all too lazy to replace it for minimal upgrades that heroic gear gives repeated?
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:19 AM   #22
Arieste

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BOOM! Just like that. BigGrin

Will the general CB penalty removal go live before AoM or no?
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:23 AM   #23
Endymion

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I wouldn't count on it.
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Old 10-22-2014, 10:40 AM   #24
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I will love that, indeed it's what i always wanted ...

Now the issue of multiple gear set for tanks and healers should be adressed ;-)


Here is a super simple solution that i propose : Allow us to make a gem or rune universal for a slot.

Ie You apply gem (improving gear) or rune to some item that fits in a slot. Then you can extract it and make a univeral/eternal gem for that slot. Gem/run has unlimited uses but is restricted to a slot.

This solution is extremelly simple to implement and do not involve new mecanics (like having a switch on gear to make it offensive or defensive or gear stats being modified by yet-to-be designed stances.

For TOV this means that if you have one 3/3 potent shoulder you can make any potent shoulder you have 3/3 with a small marginal cost (a few currency, like say 20 and plats). This would indeed also benefit class using a single set of gear, because if at some point they choose to change a piece (as example they decide to get more hp) they will be able to do it with low marginal cost.

The system could even be extended to raid gear (4/3, 1 red, purple and so on).

Details have to be fixed, shall extraction from partial gemming be allowed or not (this complicate a bit things since a gem extracted from a 1/3 armor should only be usable to push gemming rank to one and not beyond ... so restricting to fully gemmed makes things a bit easier technicaly.

Last obviously the eternal slot restricted gem is No-Trade, otherwise equiping alts will be too easy/fast.
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:49 PM   #25
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Sorry, WHAT issue with multiple gear set for tanks and healers are you talking about? I play a healer and two mages and i don't really find anything massively different between how i set up their gear sets in terms of archetypes. All the toons have a "survival" set and a "DPS" set. The only major difference for my healer from my other toons is that i rotate like 6 different charms depending on situation, but even the mages do that somewhat (just to lesser extent).

What i really WOULD like to have though is more than 3 easily accessible AA spec slots. Or the functionality returned to edit one AA tree at a time. Many AAs (for example the anti-taunt part of priest Dragon tree or Immunities on the Shaman tree) are only needed for like 1 or 2 fights. I don't feel like-spending 350AAs every time i want to spec for it. I know there is a way to save and load more specs, but it's a pain too. I would happily pay Station Cash for a few additional slots.

Personally, i really enjoyed this aspect of ToV itemization and look forward to it continuing. Stuff like Aspect of the Dragon (great for solo, terrible for group) and uplifting (good in raid, bad solo) comes to mind.
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:02 PM   #26
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Mmmmmmmm...delicious mythicrits. 917 pot 593 cb 38.7k abmod

[IMG]
[IMG]
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:52 PM   #27
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Did you proc alot to get that high or was that with just the stats you gave?
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:52 PM   #28
Neiloch

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My parse has been doing great since other people started buffing my WDB.
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:07 AM   #29
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I absolutely hate the fact that my dps no longer has anything to do with my personal skill and the only thing that affects my position on the parse is how many practiced procs are in my group, but if that's the case again this expansion I'll just play a healer instead.
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Old 11-01-2014, 02:19 PM   #30
Denzello

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I assume those stats were from the zone buffs? and do you get those ward numbers now as well w/o the buffs?
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