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Old 10-31-2012, 09:37 PM   #61
Shotneedle

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Kreton wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Empowered Dominion is also increasing potency by 4.2% at 12 stacks.

The CB-> Pot conversion is in the same line, so seems like it's working as intended since it's only applying that to the defiler.

Oh. Duh~

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Old 10-31-2012, 09:44 PM   #62
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Lasezril wrote:

Definitely a step in the right direction, as stated above Phantasmal Barrier definitely needs to be 30seconds if the recast will be 60 seconds and Spiritual Sacrifice is still rather useless... we shouldn't require someone to die in our group to get a benefit out of an endline ability.. the whole point of healers is so people -don't- die. I also still think potency conversion should be on the heal tree 

But its amazing for that one group in raid that has that one jerk who likes to die, just sayin.

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Old 11-01-2012, 01:03 AM   #63
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Right side offically rocks now.  I really do like Empowered Dominion, as it gives us some very nice group utility and opens up a bit different of a style for defilers. 

I haven't honestly played around with the Putrefy endline yet, but it does look more interesting now since the debuff portion is now the duration of the base spell.  Putrefy is also quick casting like Wrath, better reuse and most importantly is one of our class spells.  I'm not completely understanding the whole point of incrementing the damage-over-time portion when the spell repops as fast as it ticks.  Basically once we get it up to max increments we're better off letting it tick to the end of duration for the extra damage. Multiplying the initial damage by the amount of increments would be amazing, though!

The Wraithcaller/left side really needs some more work to be interesting.  I still argue that it will be more beneficial for a pure healing setup to go with both conversions and then take Wraithwall plus one of the enhancements to it.  I really don't get the idea behind a proc on death of the target that buffs the group.  The 70% damage reduction is nice, but the target still dies.  I guess the idea is to be a clutch ability to fire off on someone who is about to die so that their group has some survivability immediately after?  I see some cases where that would be useful, such as when we can telegraph an imminent tank death, but bleh.

I just can't get myself fully onboard with that mechanic as an endline.  I do like that it is castable while casting other spells (Death Cries should have been designed like that, btw), but the ability still seems weak to me.  Perhaps someone else can enlighten me on what I'm missing that would make Spiritual Sacrifice amazing or worthy of riding the left side down to the end line.

Concerning the "Prestige Mastery" abilities...

1.  Phantasmal Barrier:  This ability annoys me.  I'm assuming this was built to be more of a clutch ward than anything else, for when we notice someone taking a spike of damage and hit this spell to help save them.  The ward needs to be made much more substantial (at least as powerful as Ancient Shroud at rank 3) and castable while casting other spells.  Also, the ability still always hits the same two people every time if everyone is full health.  That obviously can work to an advantage, if you simply make sure that the tank is in one of those spots.  Please change the baseline mechanic to ward our target plus a random person if no one is lower in health than our target.  Due to the duration and recast it can't really be used in a regular rotation, so I do not see such a change as being overpowered.

2.  Ward's Bane:  This ability needs to have two changes to make it really viable.  For starters, drop the trigger timer down to every 1.0 seconds (or at least 2.5 like stated in the original patch notes for the ability).  Even the old nerfed Deadly Bane Warding was considered crippled at the every 1.0 second limit.  The AOE component helps fix that while not making the ability grossly overpowered, but the 5.0 second proc limit is going to be a huge turn off.  Second, make this a triggerable buff.  That way, if there is every a case where something doesn't need to be damaged then the damage shield can be stripped off by cancelling the buff.

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Old 11-01-2012, 01:22 AM   #64
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Gothun wrote:

Edit 2 - And the second prestige that effects this new one decreases what I'm guessing is the base cast time of Ancient Shroud, Death Ward, and Death Cries? It's pretty unclear in the explaination so if anyone knows what it means please tell me! =D But anyway, making a prestige that makes you not cast those spells to maintain what it does, and then has a modifiable prestige that makes it so you can cast the spells you're not supposed to cast faster or whatever it does? It doesn't make any sense what so ever unless I'm not understanding something.

The idea here (I think) is that Ancient Shroud and Deathward become more akin to emergency abilities while building and maintaining the crit bonus group buff.  You'll want to avoid them to maintain the crit bonus, but they can be applied instantly if they're needed in a pinch.

I like that particular aspect of the mechanic a lot.

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Old 11-01-2012, 04:36 AM   #65
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[email protected] wrote:

Gothun wrote:

Edit 2 - And the second prestige that effects this new one decreases what I'm guessing is the base cast time of Ancient Shroud, Death Ward, and Death Cries? It's pretty unclear in the explaination so if anyone knows what it means please tell me! =D But anyway, making a prestige that makes you not cast those spells to maintain what it does, and then has a modifiable prestige that makes it so you can cast the spells you're not supposed to cast faster or whatever it does? It doesn't make any sense what so ever unless I'm not understanding something.

The idea here (I think) is that Ancient Shroud and Deathward become more akin to emergency abilities while building and maintaining the crit bonus group buff.  You'll want to avoid them to maintain the crit bonus, but they can be applied instantly if they're needed in a pinch.

I like that particular aspect of the mechanic a lot.

After more research on the subject, the way these mechanics work make more sense to me, but at the same time they kind of bother me because in a sense it's almost like unwardable damage, but on a different level. Not being able to cast abilities that are essential to the class, or you lose this new buff. Totally understandable in a mage group but I don't see how you can be in a tank group and not have to ST here or there and mess up the buff. I mean I can understand if you and everyone in your group's decked out and you hardly have to lift a finger to do anything, but it's a different story for some who are less fortunate and don't have that luxury. Also, I understand there's the alternative tree or double conversion and I don't have to take these prestiges whatsoever. But it's still beta and no clue what's actually going to make it to live so no point worrying about it until everything's final. 

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Old 11-01-2012, 07:40 PM   #66
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[email protected] wrote:

I just can't get myself fully onboard with that mechanic as an endline.  I do like that it is castable while casting other spells (Death Cries should have been designed like that, btw), but the ability still seems weak to me.  Perhaps someone else can enlighten me on what I'm missing that would make Spiritual Sacrifice amazing or worthy of riding the left side down to the end line.

My take on Spiritual Sacrifice is that it is either used on the tank to give you a buffer room to recover from a tank death, or on perhaps a solo healer in the raid so that their group might not fully explode if the healer dies (it is castable across raid).  It really wont be used much but on new content, because after that the need for it will be so few and far between to be worth getting it.  The idea is fine, but it just needs something more to it beyond the death trigger.  If it also provided some kind of buff to the person it's on (while they are actually alive), that might make it usable past new content where you don't expect people to die as much (like sacrificing a % of your max health to increase their max health, or something more fitting than I can come up with).

The middle prestiges are definately weak.  The low duration aside, Phantasmal Barrier's ward is very weak and it's 60s recast doesn't help.  It only affects 2 people, and it's easier and more beneificial to cast a direct heal or ward cross raid on someone low on health than it is to use this.

Ward's Bane 5s limit is too high.  The damage itself is slightly less than Imprecate which isn't exactly the greatest damage itself.  Since they don't want to remove the proc limit, it at least needs it's proc limitation lowered.

As far as Wraithwall, the regen ward on it (Soultemper) doesn't seem to be worth the points spent.  It tops out at a 300 point ward (~1k after it crits).  It's like a single target spiritual circle, which even hitting the raid is pretty insignificant (when it doesn't die).  I'd rather see it as a hot than a tiny regen ward to at least help out in the constant unwardable damage you take.  It definately won't be making or breaking anything, and I could definately skip it and not notice any significant difference.

The right side I like.  Empowered Dominion is an interesting and different dynamic like Empowered Barrier.  I do agree that Spiritwrath's increments should also apply to the initial hit since it's always been more beneficial to refresh putrefy than let it sit and run it's duration.

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Old 11-01-2012, 08:18 PM   #67
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If Spritual Sacrifice would came with clicky that sacrifice player with the buff on, then I can see myself using it for death touches and stuff like that SMILEY

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Old 11-01-2012, 08:22 PM   #68
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Arxonn wrote:

If Spritual Sacrifice would came with clicky that sacrifice player with the buff on, then I can see myself using it for death touches and stuff like that

You mean like sacrificing someone else instead of the person who is getting the deathtouch?  That would be hilarious and I'd use it just for the laughs.

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Old 11-01-2012, 11:19 PM   #69
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Wow love the right side of the tree now.  Left side is still weak as endline ward is still half as small as my single target ward.

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Old 11-06-2012, 03:39 AM   #70
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[email protected] wrote:

The Wraithcaller/left side really needs some more work to be interesting.  I still argue that it will be more beneficial for a pure healing setup to go with both conversions and then take Wraithwall plus one of the enhancements to it.  I really don't get the idea behind a proc on death of the target that buffs the group.  The 70% damage reduction is nice, but the target still dies.

After playing around with it, I'd have to agree that it just doesn't seem worth investing in the left side.  You can go double conversion and spend 1 point in Wraithwall if you really want it and get more than if you really fully invested in the left side.  The regen'ing ward just is so minimal that it isn't worth the loss of double conversion and the heal is nothing spectacular, even at max points.  As for Spiritual Sacrifice, while the damage reduction is great, it just isn't worth it for the off chance it would be needed.  Adding something like reducing the cast time of Sacrificial Restoration to .5s or less any time the target takes 25% max health damage would make it actually useful and fits the prestige.  And the lackluster Phantasmal Barrier and Ward's Bane are no boon to go down fully in a line.

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Old 11-06-2012, 12:27 PM   #71
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Spiritual Sacrifice is creative.  Unfortunately, creative does not mean functional.  Make Spiritual Sacrifice a true death save.  Make it so you need to cast it within 10s of the effect to work (as opposed to an "until cancelled" buff).  Put it on a 5 minute base recast so with max reuse its up every 2.5 minutes.  Either that or make it a 5s 100% damage reduction.  Those options would give defilers something to think about on the left hand side.

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Old 11-07-2012, 12:14 AM   #72
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Ward's Bane is now 2 prestiges.  It wasn't worth the 1 prestige as it was, and it has to have some serious changes to be worth 2.  That proc delay needs to go.

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Old 11-07-2012, 01:34 AM   #73
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I agree, Bane Warding needs to be improved if it takes 2 prestige slots.  Like no limitations to the amount of times it can trigger.

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:14 AM   #74
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

I agree, Bane Warding needs to be improved if it takes 2 prestige slots.  Like no limitations to the amount of times it can trigger.

It would be too much ... seriously

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Old 11-07-2012, 12:12 PM   #75
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inspire1444568 wrote:

It would be too much ... seriously

Let's assume you are correct (despite your unsupported conclusory statement).  The way it is currently working and only triggering once every 5 seconds is not only underpowered but extremely underwhelming.  Still they decided to make the ability cost 2 prestige points.  This is supposed to be something we look forward to getting and it just took an additional hit.  There must be a happy middle between no limits and the one proc every 5 seconds.  Ideally, I would like to see it proc every second (I said no limitation with the hope that it would at least encourage a move off the ridiculous 5s limitation).  However, as currently configured it "would not be enough...seriously."

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Old 11-07-2012, 12:34 PM   #76
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If it's going to cost 2 prestiges to get, it needs to be pretty amazing for what it does and not some nerfed version of Bane Warding.  When Bane Warding was nerfed to 1/s it wasn't even worth swapping in 3 pieces to get it.  It was way overpowered back when proc's could proc it and you could use the intercede ear to proc it even more, but that was fixed.  It's not even the damage of an autoattack and is dependent on taking damage as it is, it should just have the proc limit removed if it's going to be the 2 point end line. 

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:01 PM   #77
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This ability is not enough, but potentially very powerful !

5 seconds is too weak, but "unlimited" is too much 

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:49 PM   #78
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This prestige is essentially just dps for the person tanking.  There is no utility or buff to it at all, so if the dps isn't worth it, the prestige isn't worth it.  And since this prestige is also the middle "end line" costing 2 points, it better be worth it.  Why the aversion to giving the class something that isn't meaningless dps to one person (that's if someone in the group is even tanking, otherwise you are getting much of nothing out of it)?  If this is going to be saddled with this proc limit then just change the ability entirely to something that is worth 2 prestiges.

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:57 PM   #79
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Kreton wrote:

This prestige is essentially just dps for the person tanking. 

But not make less useful 

Smite Heretic is one-targ. spell for tank, but... very useful 

Mechanics of this ability is really potentially OP

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Old 11-07-2012, 09:13 PM   #80
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

3.  Add some effects to ROA.  I am thinking, a decent boost of CB and on any hit, the person hitting the mob will get a chance to proce a ward. 

Okay I will reserve judgement until we see the new update notes coming for defilers tomorrow.  But I do find it interesting that mystics just got a boost to their RoA.  I have high hopes that some of Defilers' other concerns get addressed tomorrow.

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Old 11-07-2012, 09:31 PM   #81
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Our prestige seam undewhelming to me so i taught that since im at work, id just go ahead post some ideas.

Weakening the barrierThe defiler weakens the barrier beetween the material plane and ethemere, allowing some of its energy to seep into this plane, this energy prevents a small amount of damaged taken by the defilers alliesPower 494Casting 3 secondsrecast 30 secondsduration 15 secondsrange up to 15 metersreduces damage taken of group in area of effectRank1 3%Rank2 6%Rank3 9%================================================ ===First choice, Soul anchorWith the barrier weakened, the defiler is able to delay death, by anchoring the souls of his companions for a time. On death, chance to proc soul anchor, the character doesn’t die immediately, but gains temp buff that will kill him in 30 sec and a temp immunity to damage.( basically you will die, its just a matter of time )Range 15 metersRank1 20%Rank2 30%Rank3 40%Second choice, Capture essence.On death of an enemy, the defiler is able to siphon some of its energy before it seeps back into the ethermere. This essence can later be consumed to empower an ally. ( think crystallized soul ).On kill this spell has a 60% chance to create a crystal essence. Breaking the crystal boost attributes, ward, etc of an ally.Rank1 +2potency, +2crit b., +2% heals received, +20stamina.Rank1 +4potency, +4crit b., +4% heals received, +40stamina.Rank1 +6potency, +2crit b., +6% heals received, +60stamina.

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Old 11-08-2012, 05:26 PM   #82
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Soultemper : it wont ward for more than 1k, if you consider that most named will hit once every 3 or 4sec, a 1k ward will do near nothing. You should make Wraithwall a regen ward instead

Phantasmal barrier : it seem bugged i went to our necro a few times when he was full hp and he have at least 15k more hp than a few other player. I dont like it because it is raid wide it means that it will be random. Make it group wide at least so it will be less random.

There is a major issue with healer balance because of the current stat are too high for our current hp. On most hm fight the mobs dont hit hard enough for the current heal/ward. On most of those fight you cant even add more dps from auto attack or proc to those named because if a healer get stunned/stiffled/have to do something with the script then the tank will get one shot .The only way that you might be able to add some dps will be by having ae that hit the tank for 400k or wardable dt that hit for 400k.  That is why defensive healer like defiler and templar are no longer needed.

Here is 2 way to fix it :

1.Add a stat that will increase the hp so the hp will increase at the rate of potency and cb. It will be harder to heal. If you decide to make that change then it will probably take alot of time to balance things and it probably wont be rdy for the 13 november.

2. give defiler/templar a raid utility, giving dps group buff for templar or defiler wont fix the balance issue since they will have to fight for other class and the one with the best group buff will still win. Give them a raid utility then you will want every type of healer in raid since mystic/inquis will still give more dps to their group but defiler/ templar will give more dps for the raid and their buff/debuff wont stack.

Exemple of utility :

 give the defiler a debuff that will increase the damage taken of the mob by 3% with a 1min recast and 1min duration so it can be up full time. (make sure that it dont stack)

Or give the defiler a temp debuff that will last like 10sec and it will increase the damage taken of the mob by 30 or 40% with a recast of 2 or 3min. (it will need an immunity )

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Old 11-09-2012, 11:33 AM   #83
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

I agree, Bane Warding needs to be improved if it takes 2 prestige slots.  Like no limitations to the amount of times it can trigger.

I agree with this.People remember Bane Warding being insane back in TSO, because damage from procs would proc bane warding. So on fights that had a damage conversion from using mana, it had huge potential for certain class types.I have fond memories of TSO, against Anashti Sul... The shaman in the group would maintain wards on my Inquisitor, and my Inq would top the parse. It was short lived though, SOE fixed it. With SOE making major inroads into preventing procs from proccing procs, there is no longer a need to limit the trigger rate of Bane Warding. The final Prestige for Defilers should reflect this. It is not early TSO anymore. It is COE.

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Old 11-09-2012, 08:54 PM   #84
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Spiritual Sacrifice recast is not starting when the person dies, even though it does drop the buff from them (just not you).  You have to manually toggle it off to even start the recast (and remove the health debuff off you) after they have died.

Phantasmal Barrier's duration is still way too short for it's long recast and seemingly random targets.  I also don't like the idea that it wastes the entire recast if it fails to even apply a single ward.

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:11 PM   #85
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Bug:  Phantasmal Barrier - As Kreton already mentioned, the recast starts even if the ward does not apply (due to everyone being at full health).  If the ward fails to apply, the ability reuse should not start.   The duration is also not displayed in the tooltip, for some reason.  Other suggestions:  Duration of 10 seconds is low, especially since the recast is no longer a quick reset and the ward has forced limitations before it can apply.  Could this ward be increased to the normal 30 second duration of other wards?

Bug: Spiritual Sacrifice - As Kreton already mentioned, this ability is buggy in that you need to cancel the buff on yourself in order to recast it after the target dies.  The buff on the defiler needs to also be cancelled when this ability triggers.

Ward's Bane:  Can the proc timer for this apply independently for each member hit by Carrion Warding?  It looks like it only procs once per cast across the entire group.  It still feels underpowered for an endline, given the 3 second proc timer.  The effects of the prestige should also be listed in the examine window of the prestige (along with the proc timer limitation). 

Empowered Dominion:  Would it be at all possible to get the total crit bonus and mitigation shown in the examine window of the group buff as the proc increments, rather than the effects of a single increment all the time? 

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Old 11-10-2012, 08:20 PM   #86
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I just don't see Phantasmal Barrier as worth much of anything with it's recast and duration, and the fact it wont even apply a ward (yet starts the recast) unless someone isn't full health.  Wards are a first on, first off deal, so a 10s ward will easily become buried underneath other wards and ward procs and never be used up (assuming the person even takes damage again in 10s) because a lot of health loss bypasses stacked wards already up.  And just hitting 2 people is not all that special, it should at least cover 3, half a group, though I think even that would be rare for it to even be meaningful with it's 10s duration.

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