Enchanter Spell Weapon Damage

Laita · 10-07-2014, 07:49 PM

I was really hoping this xpac would bring enchanter's spell weapon damage in line with that of other mage classes. As is in beta, my Illy with 50 SWD bonus still does far less auto attack than my extremely **** wizard with no SWD bonus... I understand that enchanters do decent (by no means good/great) melee dps, but why are they not getting the same stats as other mages? To add to this, why put a prestige AA ability such as Unda Arcanus in for us when it requires as to be at max range to get the most benefit out of it?

This is just one imbalance, but please, for the love of god, look at some of the imbalances with enchanters. I'm not asking for T1 dps, but c'mon man..

Griffinhart · 10-07-2014, 09:12 PM

Sorcerer's have the highest SWD bonus of all classes. Enchanters and priest get no extra bonuses, Summoner's get a little, Sorcerer's get the most. This was done intentionally when they made spell weapons worth using..

Laita · 10-07-2014, 09:34 PM

I know it was done intentionally, doesn't mean there is any logical sense to it.. my point being, should be balanced out amongst the archtypes.

Veta · 10-07-2014, 11:51 PM

Not true. Summoners and Sorcerors were given the same equation for spell weapon damage usage. Sorcerors do not gain more from it than Summoners do.

The reason they would put in a max range ae (im not sure if enchanters got the ae avoid either) is because the plans they have for future content could be high in ae damage. I can think of a few fights now where that is perfect, i.e., the commander's fight in Guardian's Eddifice if you have to stay out and cannot go in to cast your blues. Enchanters were designed to be a utility class, not a major dps. There some fights though where chanters, or at least illusionists can dish out some nice numbers, those bein highly concentrated ae fights.

Laita · 10-08-2014, 12:03 AM

All the more reason to balance it out... it's only SWD.. chanters still wont come near touching a sorcerer or summoner, b/c of the class design which is fine, but I just can't fathom why they degrade us on auto attack... Yes chanters can push out good numbers, i'm not denying that, but it's 35-50% of an equal sorcerer (and I say 50% b/c of the sorc's deaths, lol), why degrade even more, especially if SoE wants to go, like you said, to mass damage at close range and force us back?

Gnomad_Madgon · 10-08-2014, 09:04 PM

The Enchanter AA Quickening adds .300 base auto-attack multiplier to your melee attacks only. This is the equivalent of about 30 weapon damage bonus. Melee Vs. using a wand as an enchanter gives you that edge and no more. With the Quickening AA damage between the two is close, slight edge to melee. At the haste soft cap your melee weapon will swing every 3.1(19 times per min), wand 3.6(16 times per min).

It would be nice if enchanters base weapon damage was brought in line with other mages. The increase given to summoners and sorcerers was done in an effort to keep them up to par with melee DPS classes, and I imagine to make some of the WDB/SWDB gear a viable option for them should they chose it. Unfortunately enchanters received none of this. We are not tier 1 DPS, but I don't think that is any reason to keep our base weapon damage as low as it currently is. To me it seems as though we were just forgotten when they made the adjustments to base weapon damage bonus.

Buffrat · 10-10-2014, 09:17 AM

Illies are T1 dps on ae content, if they gear for doublecast and not flurry...

Laita · 10-10-2014, 03:45 PM

This is quite the stretch right here... Do you really expect me to believe that an Illy can come anywhere near touch Mogrim on oh.. Commanders?

When I started this thread, I wasn't trying to say that enchanters needed a boost, I'm happy with our role as utility and T2 DPS.. yeah we can spike to high numbers, but when that happens the raid spikes too and we're still in our normal ratio when compared to everyone else on the parse. I just really want to know why enchanters aren't given the same BASE SWD as other mages.. especially if SoE is pushing content that will make us stand at max range to get the most benefit. That was my entire purpose, I'm happy with our new AoE in the prestige lines, and while I'd love to see some changes to the class like having doublecast affect all of our abilities (theorems, pc, psychic trauma, etc), AA's, etc.. I just don't think SoE will bother with it, so starting somewhere easy Smile

Ucala · 10-10-2014, 06:18 PM

Laita said: ↑

“This is quite the stretch right here... Do you really expect me to believe that an Illy can come anywhere near touch Mogrim on oh.. Commanders?

When I started this thread, I wasn't trying to say that enchanters needed a boost, I'm happy with our role as utility and T2 DPS.. yeah we can spike to high numbers, but when that happens the raid spikes too and we're still in our normal ratio when compared to everyone else on the parse. I just really want to know why enchanters aren't given the same BASE SWD as other mages.. especially if SoE is pushing content that will make us stand at max range to get the most benefit. That was my entire purpose, I'm happy with our new AoE in the prestige lines, and while I'd love to see some changes to the class like having doublecast affect all of our abilities (theorems, pc, psychic trauma, etc), AA's, etc.. I just don't think SoE will bother with it, so starting somewhere easy ”

with the new prestige, they get an extremely powerful AoE on a 30s recast (since we can't use prestige yet I can only guess the hit) but I would rank it around a 6-8 mil hit AoE. every 30s. and if it doublecasts, that makes it even better.
also with the clone thing. I will agree with buffrat saying illies in AoE fights could probably do T1 numbers

Ucala · 10-10-2014, 08:18 PM

hmm I would put the class numbers more around, a chanter doing 50-65% of T1 mage dps.
the gap probably lessened now with the new prestige moves though, on my illy I will probably be more around 60-75% of T1 mage dps

Buffrat · 10-12-2014, 05:21 AM

Laita said: ↑

“This is quite the stretch right here... Do you really expect me to believe that an Illy can come anywhere near touch Mogrim on oh.. Commanders?

When I started this thread, I wasn't trying to say that enchanters needed a boost, I'm happy with our role as utility and T2 DPS.. yeah we can spike to high numbers, but when that happens the raid spikes too and we're still in our normal ratio when compared to everyone else on the parse. I just really want to know why enchanters aren't given the same BASE SWD as other mages.. especially if SoE is pushing content that will make us stand at max range to get the most benefit. That was my entire purpose, I'm happy with our new AoE in the prestige lines, and while I'd love to see some changes to the class like having doublecast affect all of our abilities (theorems, pc, psychic trauma, etc), AA's, etc.. I just don't think SoE will bother with it, so starting somewhere easy ”

I'm saying a properly geared / well played mage group should be the top 6 on the parse on commanders (warlock, wizard, sorcerer3, troub, illy, fury)

Triggered abilities should be changed to let them doublecast though.

Veta · 10-14-2014, 12:25 AM

Love that idea!

Kraeref · 10-25-2014, 12:46 AM

Laita said: ↑

“This is quite the stretch right here... Do you really expect me to believe that an Illy can come anywhere near touch Mogrim on oh.. Commanders?

When I started this thread, I wasn't trying to say that enchanters needed a boost, I'm happy with our role as utility and T2 DPS.. yeah we can spike to high numbers, but when that happens the raid spikes too and we're still in our normal ratio when compared to everyone else on the parse. I just really want to know why enchanters aren't given the same BASE SWD as other mages.. especially if SoE is pushing content that will make us stand at max range to get the most benefit. That was my entire purpose, I'm happy with our new AoE in the prestige lines, and while I'd love to see some changes to the class like having doublecast affect all of our abilities (theorems, pc, psychic trauma, etc), AA's, etc.. I just don't think SoE will bother with it, so starting somewhere easy ”

I think we do need a boost. Especially coercers. Give them the same basic weapon bonus as other mages or just give them a group buff until canceled to increase WB/SWB. Reduce basic casting time of shock wave by 50% considering that new expansion has lots of aoe fights. Give an additional group buff to increase a chance of mythical crit. Something along these lines to make them attractive for hire. And for the eq2 sake give them more high damage pets to charm. Think of to give a charm in raids zones too. Maybe not for 35 mins but for reduced period of few mins. Something is in need to be done with coercers.

I would hate to retire my enchanters I came to love to play.

Gnomad_Madgon · 10-25-2014, 02:54 AM

Base Weapon Damage

Scouts (melee & ranged)
Ranger - 2.44
Assassin - 2.24
Rouges - 2.24
Bards 2.00

Mages
Summoners - 1.0 melee, 2.0 ranged
Sorcerers - 1.0 melee, 2.0 ranged
Enchanters - 1.3 melee, 1.0 ranged

Bump both melee and ranged up to a 2.0 base? This will allow the enchanters who like to melee to still have a slight advantage from auto attack damage with the .3 base added to melee damage from Quickening.

I know we need other fixes, but so do many other classes in this game. During beta for a new expansion is probably not the best time. Hopefully SOE will ask the player base once again for feedback to revamp and overhaul obsolete spells/abilities/AAs in the near future!

Gnomad_Madgon · 11-11-2014, 01:51 AM

After running many tests it does not look like cloth armor with WDB/SWDB will have much if any value for enchanters. Every armor combination I had the time to test favoring WDB/SWDB over potency resulted in a loss. The only reason to pick one or more of these would be to hit autoattack stat soft cap. Currently in my ToV gear I am at all and over many of the soft caps on both offense and autoattack.

10-07-2014, 11:51 PM	#4
Veta Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Griffinhart said: ↑ “Sorcerer's have the highest SWD bonus of all classes. Enchanters and priest get no extra bonuses, Summoner's get a little, Sorcerer's get the most. This was done intentionally when they made spell weapons worth using..” Not true. Summoners and Sorcerors were given the same equation for spell weapon damage usage. Sorcerors do not gain more from it than Summoners do. Laita said: ↑ “I was really hoping this xpac would bring enchanter's spell weapon damage in line with that of other mage classes. As is in beta, my Illy with 50 SWD bonus still does far less auto attack than my extremely **** wizard with no SWD bonus... I understand that enchanters do decent (by no means good/great) melee dps, but why are they not getting the same stats as other mages? To add to this, why put a prestige AA ability such as Unda Arcanus in for us when it requires as to be at max range to get the most benefit out of it? This is just one imbalance, but please, for the love of god, look at some of the imbalances with enchanters. I'm not asking for T1 dps, but c'mon man..” The reason they would put in a max range ae (im not sure if enchanters got the ae avoid either) is because the plans they have for future content could be high in ae damage. I can think of a few fights now where that is perfect, i.e., the commander's fight in Guardian's Eddifice if you have to stay out and cannot go in to cast your blues. Enchanters were designed to be a utility class, not a major dps. There some fights though where chanters, or at least illusionists can dish out some nice numbers, those bein highly concentrated ae fights.

10-08-2014, 12:03 AM	#5
Laita Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	“The reason they would put in a max range ae (im not sure if enchanters got the ae avoid either) is because the plans they have for future content could be high in ae damage. I can think of a few fights now where that is perfect, i.e., the commander's fight in Guardian's Eddifice if you have to stay out and cannot go in to cast your blues. Enchanters were designed to be a utility class, not a major dps. There some fights though where chanters, or at least illusionists can dish out some nice numbers, those bein highly concentrated ae fights.” All the more reason to balance it out... it's only SWD.. chanters still wont come near touching a sorcerer or summoner, b/c of the class design which is fine, but I just can't fathom why they degrade us on auto attack... Yes chanters can push out good numbers, i'm not denying that, but it's 35-50% of an equal sorcerer (and I say 50% b/c of the sorc's deaths, lol), why degrade even more, especially if SoE wants to go, like you said, to mass damage at close range and force us back?

10-08-2014, 09:04 PM	#6
Gnomad_Madgon Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	“I understand that enchanters do decent (by no means good/great) melee dps, but why are they not getting the same stats as other mages?” The Enchanter AA Quickening adds .300 base auto-attack multiplier to your melee attacks only. This is the equivalent of about 30 weapon damage bonus. Melee Vs. using a wand as an enchanter gives you that edge and no more. With the Quickening AA damage between the two is close, slight edge to melee. At the haste soft cap your melee weapon will swing every 3.1(19 times per min), wand 3.6(16 times per min). It would be nice if enchanters base weapon damage was brought in line with other mages. The increase given to summoners and sorcerers was done in an effort to keep them up to par with melee DPS classes, and I imagine to make some of the WDB/SWDB gear a viable option for them should they chose it. Unfortunately enchanters received none of this. We are not tier 1 DPS, but I don't think that is any reason to keep our base weapon damage as low as it currently is. To me it seems as though we were just forgotten when they made the adjustments to base weapon damage bonus.

10-10-2014, 03:45 PM	#8
Laita Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	“Illies are T1 dps on ae content, if they gear for doublecast and not flurry...” This is quite the stretch right here... Do you really expect me to believe that an Illy can come anywhere near touch Mogrim on oh.. Commanders? When I started this thread, I wasn't trying to say that enchanters needed a boost, I'm happy with our role as utility and T2 DPS.. yeah we can spike to high numbers, but when that happens the raid spikes too and we're still in our normal ratio when compared to everyone else on the parse. I just really want to know why enchanters aren't given the same BASE SWD as other mages.. especially if SoE is pushing content that will make us stand at max range to get the most benefit. That was my entire purpose, I'm happy with our new AoE in the prestige lines, and while I'd love to see some changes to the class like having doublecast affect all of our abilities (theorems, pc, psychic trauma, etc), AA's, etc.. I just don't think SoE will bother with it, so starting somewhere easy

10-10-2014, 06:18 PM	#9
Ucala Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Laita said: ↑ “This is quite the stretch right here... Do you really expect me to believe that an Illy can come anywhere near touch Mogrim on oh.. Commanders? When I started this thread, I wasn't trying to say that enchanters needed a boost, I'm happy with our role as utility and T2 DPS.. yeah we can spike to high numbers, but when that happens the raid spikes too and we're still in our normal ratio when compared to everyone else on the parse. I just really want to know why enchanters aren't given the same BASE SWD as other mages.. especially if SoE is pushing content that will make us stand at max range to get the most benefit. That was my entire purpose, I'm happy with our new AoE in the prestige lines, and while I'd love to see some changes to the class like having doublecast affect all of our abilities (theorems, pc, psychic trauma, etc), AA's, etc.. I just don't think SoE will bother with it, so starting somewhere easy ” with the new prestige, they get an extremely powerful AoE on a 30s recast (since we can't use prestige yet I can only guess the hit) but I would rank it around a 6-8 mil hit AoE. every 30s. and if it doublecasts, that makes it even better. also with the clone thing. I will agree with buffrat saying illies in AoE fights could probably do T1 numbers

10-07-2014, 07:49 PM	#1
Laita Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I was really hoping this xpac would bring enchanter's spell weapon damage in line with that of other mage classes. As is in beta, my Illy with 50 SWD bonus still does far less auto attack than my extremely **** wizard with no SWD bonus... I understand that enchanters do decent (by no means good/great) melee dps, but why are they not getting the same stats as other mages? To add to this, why put a prestige AA ability such as Unda Arcanus in for us when it requires as to be at max range to get the most benefit out of it? This is just one imbalance, but please, for the love of god, look at some of the imbalances with enchanters. I'm not asking for T1 dps, but c'mon man..

10-07-2014, 09:12 PM	#2
Griffinhart Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Sorcerer's have the highest SWD bonus of all classes. Enchanters and priest get no extra bonuses, Summoner's get a little, Sorcerer's get the most. This was done intentionally when they made spell weapons worth using..

10-07-2014, 09:34 PM	#3
Laita Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I know it was done intentionally, doesn't mean there is any logical sense to it.. my point being, should be balanced out amongst the archtypes.

10-10-2014, 09:17 AM	#7
Buffrat Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Illies are T1 dps on ae content, if they gear for doublecast and not flurry...

10-10-2014, 08:18 PM	#10
Ucala Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Laita said: ↑ “All the more reason to balance it out... it's only SWD.. chanters still wont come near touching a sorcerer or summoner, b/c of the class design which is fine, but I just can't fathom why they degrade us on auto attack... Yes chanters can push out good numbers, i'm not denying that, but it's 35-50% of an equal sorcerer (and I say 50% b/c of the sorc's deaths, lol), why degrade even more, especially if SoE wants to go, like you said, to mass damage at close range and force us back?” hmm I would put the class numbers more around, a chanter doing 50-65% of T1 mage dps. the gap probably lessened now with the new prestige moves though, on my illy I will probably be more around 60-75% of T1 mage dps

10-12-2014, 05:21 AM	#11
Buffrat Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Laita said: ↑ “This is quite the stretch right here... Do you really expect me to believe that an Illy can come anywhere near touch Mogrim on oh.. Commanders? When I started this thread, I wasn't trying to say that enchanters needed a boost, I'm happy with our role as utility and T2 DPS.. yeah we can spike to high numbers, but when that happens the raid spikes too and we're still in our normal ratio when compared to everyone else on the parse. I just really want to know why enchanters aren't given the same BASE SWD as other mages.. especially if SoE is pushing content that will make us stand at max range to get the most benefit. That was my entire purpose, I'm happy with our new AoE in the prestige lines, and while I'd love to see some changes to the class like having doublecast affect all of our abilities (theorems, pc, psychic trauma, etc), AA's, etc.. I just don't think SoE will bother with it, so starting somewhere easy ” I'm saying a properly geared / well played mage group should be the top 6 on the parse on commanders (warlock, wizard, sorcerer3, troub, illy, fury) Triggered abilities should be changed to let them doublecast though.

10-14-2014, 12:25 AM	#12
Veta Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Buffrat said: ↑ “Triggered abilities should be changed to let them doublecast though.” Love that idea!

10-25-2014, 12:46 AM	#13
Kraeref Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Laita said: ↑ “This is quite the stretch right here... Do you really expect me to believe that an Illy can come anywhere near touch Mogrim on oh.. Commanders? When I started this thread, I wasn't trying to say that enchanters needed a boost, I'm happy with our role as utility and T2 DPS.. yeah we can spike to high numbers, but when that happens the raid spikes too and we're still in our normal ratio when compared to everyone else on the parse. I just really want to know why enchanters aren't given the same BASE SWD as other mages.. especially if SoE is pushing content that will make us stand at max range to get the most benefit. That was my entire purpose, I'm happy with our new AoE in the prestige lines, and while I'd love to see some changes to the class like having doublecast affect all of our abilities (theorems, pc, psychic trauma, etc), AA's, etc.. I just don't think SoE will bother with it, so starting somewhere easy ” I think we do need a boost. Especially coercers. Give them the same basic weapon bonus as other mages or just give them a group buff until canceled to increase WB/SWB. Reduce basic casting time of shock wave by 50% considering that new expansion has lots of aoe fights. Give an additional group buff to increase a chance of mythical crit. Something along these lines to make them attractive for hire. And for the eq2 sake give them more high damage pets to charm. Think of to give a charm in raids zones too. Maybe not for 35 mins but for reduced period of few mins. Something is in need to be done with coercers. I would hate to retire my enchanters I came to love to play.

10-25-2014, 02:54 AM	#14
Gnomad_Madgon Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Base Weapon Damage Scouts (melee & ranged) Ranger - 2.44 Assassin - 2.24 Rouges - 2.24 Bards 2.00 Mages Summoners - 1.0 melee, 2.0 ranged Sorcerers - 1.0 melee, 2.0 ranged Enchanters - 1.3 melee, 1.0 ranged Bump both melee and ranged up to a 2.0 base? This will allow the enchanters who like to melee to still have a slight advantage from auto attack damage with the .3 base added to melee damage from Quickening. I know we need other fixes, but so do many other classes in this game. During beta for a new expansion is probably not the best time. Hopefully SOE will ask the player base once again for feedback to revamp and overhaul obsolete spells/abilities/AAs in the near future!

11-11-2014, 01:51 AM	#15
Gnomad_Madgon Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	After running many tests it does not look like cloth armor with WDB/SWDB will have much if any value for enchanters. Every armor combination I had the time to test favoring WDB/SWDB over potency resulted in a loss. The only reason to pick one or more of these would be to hit autoattack stat soft cap. Currently in my ToV gear I am at all and over many of the soft caps on both offense and autoattack.