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Old 11-27-2007, 02:08 PM   #1
amanda4

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I leveled my main to 80 and was getting settled down to start on my 5 lvl 70 crafters.  After looking at the total garbage available to craft in t8 I am wondering why I should even bother.  The armor and weapons are useless in t8 and the only crafters worth leveling are the provies and scribes.

Why keep crafting in game if you can't give us something worthwhile to craft SOE?  Almost any treasured t8 quest rewards are better than mastercrafted.  Adjustments are in order.

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Old 11-27-2007, 03:43 PM   #2
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Agreed. I am skilling my sage out of obvious necessity and typically look forward to housing items as well but cant seem to get excited about skilling up any of my other crafters at this point.
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:50 PM   #3
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Yeah, crafting has really become a devalued art.  As  Jeweler, I can attest that RoK destroyed the T2 market, for which there was ample business.  T7 was destroyed as soon as it came out, and T8 is even worse, nobody buys stuff there.  I can make scout Adept 3's, which is nice, but usually people just bring me the rares and if I'm lucky cover my costs, there's no money to be made there.  I guess Adornments might be worthwhile for some classes, but not really for a Jeweler thus far.  Basically, if your crafter has reached level 50, there's no real incentive to spend the money and time to level him/her to 80, as the costs skyrocket and the monetary value is quite low.  Disappointing really.  SMILEY
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:17 AM   #4
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 The mistake is yours,not SOE's...youv been reading it as MASTERCRAFTED....its actually MASTERCRAP'D....next time when you look squint your eyes really tight and youl then see the obvious error youv been makingSMILEY

 Armorers are only good for 2 things....writs,and adornments...i advise ppl to not waste their money on Mastercrap'd armor...most treasured easily beats it now....although some ppl do want mastercrap'd just for looks....hehe who would be crazy enuff to actually wear the darn stuff.And if the price of the rare for T8 armor doesnt indicate how utterly crappy the armor really is.....seee....mastercrap'd....it doesnt get any worseSMILEY

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Old 11-28-2007, 04:52 PM   #5
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Well, I for one am very happy with the long term results of the massive TS nerf that came with KoS. I made a Provisioner.

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Old 11-28-2007, 04:58 PM   #6
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[email protected] wrote:
Yeah, crafting has really become a devalued art.  As  Jeweler, I can attest that RoK destroyed the T2 market, for which there was ample business.  T7 was destroyed as soon as it came out, and T8 is even worse, nobody buys stuff there.  I can make scout Adept 3's, which is nice, but usually people just bring me the rares and if I'm lucky cover my costs, there's no money to be made there.  I guess Adornments might be worthwhile for some classes, but not really for a Jeweler thus far.  Basically, if your crafter has reached level 50, there's no real incentive to spend the money and time to level him/her to 80, as the costs skyrocket and the monetary value is quite low.  Disappointing really.  SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />

One reason to craft is to get to L66 so as to use the overclocked harvesting tools.

Another reason is to do writs.

A third reason is to sell items in the tiers in which m/c gear is still desirable for twinks.  The most profitable tiers for the m/c gear produced by my crafters (I have all 9 trades) have been 2-5.  Now that I've been through the starter TD quest line a couple of times and seen the treasured gear you get, I suspect that the demand for T2 mastercrafted is about to collapse.  But shouldn't that still leave us with tiers 3 through 5? 

Sure, I'm sad to see a diminishing market for m/c wares, but it's not really as bad as I think this thread makes it out to be.

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Old 11-28-2007, 05:08 PM   #7
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dartie wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Yeah, crafting has really become a devalued art.  As  Jeweler, I can attest that RoK destroyed the T2 market, for which there was ample business.  T7 was destroyed as soon as it came out, and T8 is even worse, nobody buys stuff there.  I can make scout Adept 3's, which is nice, but usually people just bring me the rares and if I'm lucky cover my costs, there's no money to be made there.  I guess Adornments might be worthwhile for some classes, but not really for a Jeweler thus far.  Basically, if your crafter has reached level 50, there's no real incentive to spend the money and time to level him/her to 80, as the costs skyrocket and the monetary value is quite low.  Disappointing really.  SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />

One reason to craft is to get to L66 so as to use the overclocked harvesting tools.

Another reason is to do writs.

A third reason is to sell items in the tiers in which m/c gear is still desirable for twinks.  The most profitable tiers for the m/c gear produced by my crafters (I have all 9 trades) have been 2-5.  Now that I've been through the starter TD quest line a couple of times and seen the treasured gear you get, I suspect that the demand for T2 mastercrafted is about to collapse.  But shouldn't that still leave us with tiers 3 through 5? 

Sure, I'm sad to see a diminishing market for m/c wares, but it's not really as bad as I think this thread makes it out to be.

If you dont need crafting you really dont need harvesting hence the necessity for overclocked tool becomes moot. Never been one to do crafting writs. Too much time invested for harvesting and then status and faction is less than adventure writs coupled with the fact doing adventure writs also provides LOOT. You also get status from raiding and even a few group instances now so again, there are other options.Provisioners I think are going to take a hit in this expansion. The reason I say this is simple - I have acquired so much gear with +10 to +12 health and/or power regen both in and out of combat that combined it provides more than the best food and drink can offer. Sure the food will be supplemental but with the recent either bug or modification to food/drink being consumed while offline I turned mine off last night and went merrily around Fens questing/killing for hours. Never once needed to consume food or drink to stay in the green, even when chaing killing mobs no more than 10 seconds or so was needed after 5-6 mobs kills before hitting the next sets.I just havent seen much to get excited about in the way of crafting. I am really sorry to say it because I was ready to go full force and knock the alts to 80 but I just dont see the reason for investing the time at the moment.
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:45 PM   #8
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You should check out the State of Tradeskills post whenever it gets updated, She has already reavaluated T1, T2 and T8 Mastercrafted vers thier respective Treasured and she says to keep an eye on Test and LU41.
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:47 PM   #9
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ke'la wrote:
You should check out the State of Tradeskills post whenever it gets updated, She has already reavaluated T1, T2 and T8 Mastercrafted vers thier respective Treasured and she says to keep an eye on Test and LU41.
Actually everything in between got a boost too, otherwise it would have been a bit out of whack. 
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:50 PM   #10
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Heh.  Any chance you'll spend another 4-day weekend looking at WS and WW crafted weapons, too?Hey, a girl can hope!
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:08 PM   #11
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Calthine wrote:
Heh.  Any chance you'll spend another 4-day weekend looking at WS and WW crafted weapons, too?Hey, a girl can hope!
This girl hopes for another 4 day weekend ... actually maybe two, so one can actually be a weekend ... SMILEYI know the T8 ones already got a good tweak towards the end of beta.  If you think there are still issues with those, probably good to start another thread and specifically list what stats you feel are a problem.If you're referring to the lower level weapons ... just not going to be possible before Christmas, there's very few work days left as it is, and quite a few other things that need doing before then.  In the new year ... we'll see.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:54 AM   #12
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Armae wrote:

 The mistake is yours,not SOE's...youv been reading it as MASTERCRAFTED....its actually MASTERCRAP'D....next time when you look squint your eyes really tight and youl then see the obvious error youv been makingSMILEY<img src=" />

This I don't get. In it's current state, T8 mastercrafted is superior to the EoF legendary class sets. Not by a huge margin, the effects on the class sets make it a tight race at times, but T8 MC has the edge. At 72, T8 MC definitely beats all the treasured pieces I see on the broker. The treasured has fewer and smaller stat boosts than the MC does, and the lower levels make armor mitigation poorer. Even the legendary faction stuff available at Teren's Grasp doesn't stack up against incarnadine armor for my berserker. People keep dissing mastercrafted, but unless you're comparing it to fabled gear or legendary from the upper half of the tier I just don't see that opinion backed up by the in-game numbers.
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:34 AM   #13
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why bother crafting? why not? well, i started crafting to not have to pay the back then crazy drink prices.

well, then a lvl cap increase came along, the toon just didnt feel complete without getting the crafting lvl maxed too... well... as we all know... the pit wont let you go... so i ended up with 9 crafters....

i can even sell things... well, sure not the same amount anymore as pre subs removal... but still plenty of stuff.

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Old 11-29-2007, 09:31 AM   #14
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amanda4 wrote:

I leveled my main to 80 and was getting settled down to start on my 5 lvl 70 crafters.  After looking at the total garbage available to craft in t8 I am wondering why I should even bother.  The armor and weapons are useless in t8 and the only crafters worth leveling are the provies and scribes.

Why keep crafting in game if you can't give us something worthwhile to craft SOE?  Almost any treasured t8 quest rewards are better than mastercrafted.  Adjustments are in order. 

Actually I had already quit my EQ2 account due to crafting and the sense of it before RoK. Than Domino appeared and all sounded well. I reapplied, I bought RoK and was never that dissappointed. T8 outfitter stuff ist really really useless. To tell us, to show you which stats are out of place can only be a bad joke. Not a single weapon has a useable DPS. My lvl 70 crafter did two, looked the MC up and quit crafting.RoK is totally disappointing but tradeskilling has even become worse. Never thought this possible after I all I read of and from Domino. SMILEY
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:37 AM   #15
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well, treasured stuff is getting nerfed...  a red name said so in another thread in items and equipment...

while it sucks to see things getting nerfed... it gives crafting a bump in the right direction

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Old 11-29-2007, 09:45 AM   #16
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Mastercrafted armor is getting a bonus in an upcoming update.  To all teirs I believe.

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Old 11-29-2007, 11:08 AM   #17
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Mastercrafted needs a HUGE bonus. It should be the best available to anyone early on in a tier (at the end of a tier legendary and fabled should be the best, obviously).The trouble is: the quested treasured in T8 is very nice, and the devs'll have to really tear it apart to make MC worthwhile.Here's how I think itemisation for T8 should look:70-78:Handcrafted: interchangable with treasured.Treasured: on a par with T7 legendary. maybe a little less so. Getting ever so slightly better with ascending level requirement. While never surpassing T8 Mastercrafted.Mastercrafted: Better than T7 legendary, on a par with T7 fabled. Highly desirable equipment.Legendary: little better than treasured, maybe as nice as mastercrafted.Fabled: Little better than Mastercrafted. Nice, if you can get it.77-80:Treasured: better than earlier drops.Mastercrafted: none (it's all level 72, remember?)Legendary: becoming a bit better than mastercrafted, especially in sets.Fabled: way better than legendary. Nuff said.If it's not like that when they've finished their "live beta", then crafting armour and weapons is pointless.Maybe it's time to start thinking outside the box when it comes to effects on crafted stuff AND giving tradeskillers the ability to adjust stats to fill the gaps where no functional items exist (like melee healers, for example).
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:08 AM   #18
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Killerbee3000 wrote:

well, treasured stuff is getting nerfed...  a red name said so in another thread in items and equipment...

while it sucks to see things getting nerfed... it gives crafting a bump in the right direction

Linky please.Oh, you mean:  http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...99&#4454871That's just T8 Treasure effects.  Domino also did a pass on all MC, which she said should be on Test soon.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:54 AM   #19
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Calthine wrote:
Killerbee3000 wrote:

well, treasured stuff is getting nerfed...  a red name said so in another thread in items and equipment...

while it sucks to see things getting nerfed... it gives crafting a bump in the right direction

Linky please.Oh, you mean:  http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...99&#4454871That's just T8 Treasure effects.  Domino also did a pass on all MC, which she said should be on Test soon.

yes, but the effects are hands down what makes one equip the t8 treasured items.

the effect nerf for treasured gear combined with bumping up crafted gear will most likely end up as crafted gear being an option for non tanks too.

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Old 11-29-2007, 12:01 PM   #20
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Killerbee3000 wrote:

well, treasured stuff is getting nerfed...  a red name said so in another thread in items and equipment...

while it sucks to see things getting nerfed... it gives crafting a bump in the right direction

Sounds like the "fix" to the AA trees they did a few LU's ago. We want the crappy AA lines to appear better so we will nerf the good ones until they do...gotta love that mentality.Let's see, new expansion and the multitudes go wild and get excited about the quest XP being awesome and the game actually questing. A few complainers that cant sit in a room in KC and pull mobs til they are 80 while watching tv complain incessantly and poof - quest xp gets nerfed. The excited subsides. People go crazy that the burynai pet is passing out shinies from long since removed collections and are feeding it everything they can to move along on the collections and poof - they nerf it to require 1 of each fertilizer type and the excitement subsides. They put in a ton of named with fairly fast respawns and people rejoice that questing and looting can occur without aggravating camps bitterness occurring over contested mobs but wait - none of them drop loot so the excitement subsides BUT then we get the response - oops, the loot tables were fixed and lo and behold you can now get wood chest from those contested named and MAYBE, just MAYBE if you kill them 50+ times you will get ornate (yes, I watched a named spawn to see how many times it took for it to get killed before it dropped anything decent) - once again, the excitement subsides. Threads talking about how amazing the gear has been and how excited people are to not have to raid or grind instances to get decent gear but now because tradeskilled items are subpar (once again like this is a shock) those are going to get nerfed as well.Perhaps, just perhaps if we start talking about how great all the broken things are in the game they will take those away by actually fixing them./rant off
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:39 PM   #21
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Valdaglerion wrote:
Threads talking about how amazing the gear has been and how excited people are to not have to raid or grind instances to get decent gear but now because tradeskilled items are subpar (once again like this is a shock) those are going to get nerfed as well.
The two are entirely unrelated and are being done by different people.  Some treasured items were adjusted because they were unintentionally too powerful, or ended up assigned to easier quests than they'd been intended for, and this adjustment would have happened regardless of what anybody thought of tradeskilled stuff (and in fact regardless of what anybody posted on the forums about it); all these changes are carefully discussed and done for the overall good of the game.  Tradeskilled stuff is not being nerfed, it's being improved.  That it needs improving was obviously not intended, however, with the time lost due to the fires we didn't have as much time to do the final balance checks and itemization comparisons we had planned to.  We're already talking about ways to prevent that happening in future expansions.  Smile, the glass half full, not half empty!  SMILEY
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:47 PM   #22
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DominoDev wrote:
and this adjustment would have happened regardless of what anybody thought of tradeskilled stuff (and in fact regardless of what anybody posted on the forums about it); all these changes are carefully discussed and done for the overall good of the game. 
yep, but while they might not be directly related, the quality of quested/ dropped gear does have a major impact on how desirable the crafted gear is.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:50 PM   #23
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Hmm, I am half tempted to buy up about 8-10 rares for MC armor since they are so cheap right now and wait it out to see what happens...
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:19 PM   #24
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DominoDev wrote:
Smile, the glass half full, not half empty!  SMILEY<img src=" />
Weather or not the glass is half full or half empty, isn't the important part that the glass is missing half of its intended contents? This missing half needs to be looked at by an independant enquiry into why it is missing half and how in the furutre we can learn from this issue and make sure that no glass is missing half, a quater or any of its contents in the future. We must build a world society where NO GLASS is missing ANY of its content, weather that content be water, milk, chemicals, MMO game updates or other stuff best not mentioned here.Truly we will one day see this future and we are determined to make sure it is a good one.
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:34 PM   #25
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DominoDev wrote:
Valdaglerion wrote:
Threads talking about how amazing the gear has been and how excited people are to not have to raid or grind instances to get decent gear but now because tradeskilled items are subpar (once again like this is a shock) those are going to get nerfed as well.
The two are entirely unrelated and are being done by different people.  Some treasured items were adjusted because they were unintentionally too powerful, or ended up assigned to easier quests than they'd been intended for, and this adjustment would have happened regardless of what anybody thought of tradeskilled stuff (and in fact regardless of what anybody posted on the forums about it); all these changes are carefully discussed and done for the overall good of the game.  Tradeskilled stuff is not being nerfed, it's being improved.  That it needs improving was obviously not intended, however, with the time lost due to the fires we didn't have as much time to do the final balance checks and itemization comparisons we had planned to.  We're already talking about ways to prevent that happening in future expansions.  Smile, the glass half full, not half empty!  SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />

  The perception of "half full" or "half empty" to the rational mind usually depends upon whether one sees the glass being emptied or filled over time.  What is perhaps being perceived due to recent "hotfixes" is that an eyedropper is being used to empty what was originally a nearly full glass one drop at a time. 

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Old 11-29-2007, 01:47 PM   #26
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DominoDev wrote:
Valdaglerion wrote:
Threads talking about how amazing the gear has been and how excited people are to not have to raid or grind instances to get decent gear but now because tradeskilled items are subpar (once again like this is a shock) those are going to get nerfed as well.
The two are entirely unrelated and are being done by different people.  Some treasured items were adjusted because they were unintentionally too powerful, or ended up assigned to easier quests than they'd been intended for, and this adjustment would have happened regardless of what anybody thought of tradeskilled stuff (and in fact regardless of what anybody posted on the forums about it); all these changes are carefully discussed and done for the overall good of the game.  Tradeskilled stuff is not being nerfed, it's being improved.  That it needs improving was obviously not intended, however, with the time lost due to the fires we didn't have as much time to do the final balance checks and itemization comparisons we had planned to.  We're already talking about ways to prevent that happening in future expansions.  Smile, the glass half full, not half empty!  SMILEY<img src=" />
This statement sums up what we have complained about time and time again. It stems from poor planning, design and implementation on the part of SOE. Things get put in the game incorrectly, inadvertently and/or not tested properly which consistently lead to upset players for one reason or another, some nerfs, some bugs which sit in our journals as quest which can not be advanced for weeks, to months or longer. I completely understand that the development teams are split into specializations or at least would assume so; however, not understanding how certain items will affect game play is not a good thing. Some of the items which are seemingly overpowered for treasured are often the result of a simple quest BUT those quest are often the last in a chain of quests. Many people play these games as their main entertainment or diversion, yes, me included and spending hours to accomplish something and then hear the "oops, sorry you weren't supposed to get that" is frustrating to say the least. Please don't take it personally, its not meant to be so but if we decided to pay only half of our subscription because we only got half of what was advertised do you think SOE would still be smiling?
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:49 PM   #27
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[email protected] DLere wrote:
DominoDev wrote:
Valdaglerion wrote:
Threads talking about how amazing the gear has been and how excited people are to not have to raid or grind instances to get decent gear but now because tradeskilled items are subpar (once again like this is a shock) those are going to get nerfed as well.
The two are entirely unrelated and are being done by different people.  Some treasured items were adjusted because they were unintentionally too powerful, or ended up assigned to easier quests than they'd been intended for, and this adjustment would have happened regardless of what anybody thought of tradeskilled stuff (and in fact regardless of what anybody posted on the forums about it); all these changes are carefully discussed and done for the overall good of the game.  Tradeskilled stuff is not being nerfed, it's being improved.  That it needs improving was obviously not intended, however, with the time lost due to the fires we didn't have as much time to do the final balance checks and itemization comparisons we had planned to.  We're already talking about ways to prevent that happening in future expansions.  Smile, the glass half full, not half empty!  SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />

  The perception of "half full" or "half empty" to the rational mind usually depends upon whether one sees the glass being emptied or filled over time.  What is perhaps being perceived due to recent "hotfixes" is that an eyedropper is being used to empty what was originally a nearly full glass one drop at a time. 

Well stated and if you look at the original statement I made, there were multiple examples of that very thing given.
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:00 PM   #28
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*drinks the contents of the danged glass*
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:17 PM   #29
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Valdaglerion wrote:
DominoDev wrote:
Valdaglerion wrote:
Threads talking about how amazing the gear has been and how excited people are to not have to raid or grind instances to get decent gear but now because tradeskilled items are subpar (once again like this is a shock) those are going to get nerfed as well.
The two are entirely unrelated and are being done by different people.  Some treasured items were adjusted because they were unintentionally too powerful, or ended up assigned to easier quests than they'd been intended for, and this adjustment would have happened regardless of what anybody thought of tradeskilled stuff (and in fact regardless of what anybody posted on the forums about it); all these changes are carefully discussed and done for the overall good of the game.  Tradeskilled stuff is not being nerfed, it's being improved.  That it needs improving was obviously not intended, however, with the time lost due to the fires we didn't have as much time to do the final balance checks and itemization comparisons we had planned to.  We're already talking about ways to prevent that happening in future expansions.  Smile, the glass half full, not half empty!  SMILEY<img src=">
This statement sums up what we have complained about time and time again. It stems from poor planning, design and implementation on the part of SOE. Things get put in the game incorrectly, inadvertently and/or not tested properly which consistently lead to upset players for one reason or another, some nerfs, some bugs which sit in our journals as quest which can not be advanced for weeks, to months or longer. I completely understand that the development teams are split into specializations or at least would assume so; however, not understanding how certain items will affect game play is not a good thing. Some of the items which are seemingly overpowered for treasured are often the result of a simple quest BUT those quest are often the last in a chain of quests. Many people play these games as their main entertainment or diversion, yes, me included and spending hours to accomplish something and then hear the "oops, sorry you weren't supposed to get that" is frustrating to say the least. Please don't take it personally, its not meant to be so but if we decided to pay only half of our subscription because we only got half of what was advertised do you think SOE would still be smiling?

The problem goes back a long, long time - before Domino every joined SOE. The problem goes back to a total NERF to crafting which introduced Mastercrafted( I have other not so polite names for it) and removed our Legendary. I remember as a newbie harvesting franctically to get enough Blackened Iron to make a suit of Legendary armor for my SK. I was so proud of him. That was also the time when APP III spells used to sell too!

The problem was that raiders whined incessantly about crafters making Legendary stuff so ultimately it got nerfed to Mastercrated - and it has been all down hill for crafting ever since. It will never get back to its former glory -- crafting is a dead duck.

What makes me laugh is the people who say at least we don't have ONE CLICK crafting like EQ1 -- and I say to them, we spend more time making stuff that is just as unusable as the crafted stuff in EQ1 so in that sense ONE CLICK is better. Since the output is worthless junk why not just ONE CLICK it and forget the silly crafting arts since they no longer have much meaning.

The biggest value of crafting today is doing the writs for Status as no one wants what crafters make. SOE saw to that!!

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Old 11-29-2007, 03:39 PM   #30
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Maroger wrote:

The biggest value of crafting today is doing the writs for Status as no one wants what crafters make. SOE saw to that!!

*looks at the 100p profit she's made selling crafted items since RoK came out**looks at the even larger profits crafters who actually have time to play nightly have made*Hmm ... yeah ... we're going to have to agree to disagree there!  SOMEBODY sure keeps wanting my stuff, faster than I can craft it!However, since there's nothing I can do that will convince determined pessimists that things are improving and will continue to improve, there's really no way to reach an agreement in this discussion.  Me, I've seen more improvements in the game than I can count since it released, and we continue to plot scheme plan more.  Those determined to believe everything is doomed, doomed, doomed are welcome to think so, but ya ain't going to convince me of it!  SMILEY  All I can say is sit back and keep watching the upcoming changes, and make up your own minds then.  In the mean time though I'm locking this thread as it's only going in circles, and the only way to accurately predict the future is to sit down and wait for it and see what happens.  SMILEY
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