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Old 01-28-2013, 09:09 PM   #1
Fixn

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I was so jazzed when I learned that the players were going to be able to make in game items. When I read about Player Studio it sounded as if we were going to download a program.  I went to the SOE Live in LV and they were showing a video of someone making a chair and (of course) made it look so simple.  Well I now find out that we have to find certian programs on our own to use and even buy programs possibly.  What a real let-down.  I am very 'artistic' and know I could make some really nice items but now I have to learn how to use many different programs before I can share my ideas.  Not only that I have to learn the terms used just to understand what alot of ppl here are talking about. lol

Its just sad that what so many of us thought was going to be a doable thing for us, wont be.  With all the brains SOE has nobody could create a program easy to use for those of us with little or no computer training? 

So many awesome ideas will never be because the way the Player Studio is now has closed the door to so many talented people.

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Old 01-28-2013, 10:26 PM   #2
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Sounds like you were confused about player studio, and thought it would do the work for you? It would probably be difficult to use any program if you have little to no computer knowledge, and don't know what the terms mean. If player studio was a program, you would still have to learn it, like Blender, which is a very powerful program, and free too.

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Old 01-29-2013, 07:06 AM   #3
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As I said before, I thought there was going to be a program offered we download.  I didnt expect it to do the work for me nor do I have a problem with learning a new program but finding out this takes more than one program is more than most ppl assumed player studio was going to take from what I have found in chats.

One good thing is there are free programs out there to be used and I will certianly look into them but there is still the issue with knowing what the terms mean.  I have yet to find a dictionary for this problem.

When I started playing EQ1 13+ yrs ago I almost nothing about a computer other than to turn it on and off.  Not long after I found that one needs to have some knowldge of how computers work and some programs just to keep EQ working properly.  Then if you decided to make a website you needed to learn HTML.   Now that isnt a needed skill anymore thank goodness cuz I spent many hours trying to learn that.

I sure miss the days when playing a game meant going to the closet, pulling out a game box, open box set out board and game peices and roll the dice! And those were the more complicated games!  Hop Scotch only required a peice of chalk and an item to toss!

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:20 PM   #4
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I really don't even know what to say to this thread.

If you were to visit SOE and watch the artists creating in-game items, you would see that almost everything is created in Maya, which is a $3,000+ program. These items are then textured in Photoshop and other texture application programs, which again cost thousands of dollars. Maya and Photoshop have each taken 10+ years of development with a full team of programmers and designers working on them year round.

It seems like you are asking that SOE drop everything for 5-10 years and reinvent the wheel by writing their own modeling and texturing software to have the same feature sets as Maya and Photoshop and then give this software away for FREE to aspiring PlayerStudio artists?

I was also in Las Vegas at the PlayerStudio panel and I was astonished at how many people thought you could just fire up this mythical "PlayerStudio item creator", click a few buttons, and bam, a piece of furniture or new armor/clothing would be created. This is completely unrealistic and a pie in the sky imagination of how much time and effort it actually takes to create these items. I just have to ask -- if there were better, faster, easier tools, don't you think the EQ and EQ2 teams would already be using them? It took the artist at the PlayerStudio panel 1 hour just to finish up a chair for FreeRealms that was already about 50% complete, and this was using the best tools available (I think it was Maya).

PlayerStudio is intended for people who have 3D modeling software and 2D painting software and some experience using them. You may think this is a tiny group of people, but there are actually a lot of people who have tinkered with both and could be creating items for EQ and EQ2. And the choice of software ranges from free to $3,000 or more.

I sure miss the days when playing a game meant going to the closet, pulling out a game box, open box set out board and game peices and roll the dice! And those were the more complicated games!

And if you wanted to add game pieces or extend those games, would it not require the knowledge to carve wood, etch plastic or metal, create new graphics in the computer and print out replacement pieces? You're talking about MODIFYING a game that is published by Sony Online Entertainment and adding your own content. There's no way to make this a push-button affair.

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Old 01-29-2013, 08:03 PM   #5
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I do know that there are some free programs out there, in fact I believe there is a thread about programs to use. Not only that, but there are millions upon millions of tutorials, and troubleshooting online, for free. 

If you really want to make the stuff, then you have to take the time to get it, and learn it. Nothing worthwhile comes easy. 

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Old 01-29-2013, 09:29 PM   #6
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I believe, it was JChan himself that had stated @ SOELive during one of the "Player Studio" spot-lights, that you WOULD need to have some knowledge in 3D programs and how they work.

I have spent as many as 12 + hours on some pieces that are set to go into EQ. Between making them in Maya and then texturing them in PhotoShop. I have also spent hours going over most items, making sure the poly count is correct, re-doing certain aspects to make them work, etc. It's NOT a PHD (push here dummy) type of thing. It takes a LOT of work , patience and YES,. you have to be able to understand the basic concepts of 3D modeling.

Sorry if you got the wrong impression of Player Studio,.... but if you were unclear on certain aspects of it,. and you were at SOELive,... you should have asked.

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Old 01-30-2013, 12:43 AM   #7
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I'm sorry to learn that several people seem to have misunderstood the way the PlayerStudio "program" works.

It's called a "program" in much the same way that there might be a "program of study" at a college to earn a degree. It's not talking about software. It is a method, or "program," whereby players like us may offer our own items for sale brokered in SOE's games.

When I heard about PlayerStudio, the very first thing I did was to follow the links to the informational pages. Those pages are fairly clear that SOE is not offering any software for creating anything. Instead, they have links to several different software types (both modeling and texturing specializations) -- some of which are free.

It's not like DAZ|studio, a free 3D art program that I use to render and double-check that my work looks right from all angles before submitting.

Instead, PlayerStudio is an opportunity to make things using our own preferred software (purchased or shareware / freeware / tellware) to create things that, if done well enough and if they math stylistically, may be accepted for sale in the game.

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Old 01-30-2013, 12:48 AM   #8
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Sorry to hear that people misunderstood what PlayerStudio is about.

As stated by a prior poster (who explained it better than I did, so truncating to avoid redundancy), it's a "program to accomplish something" and not a software application.

Most of us who are submitting items have probably been doing some form of 3D art for years. Not merely weeks or months, but *years.*

If one spends much time at 3D art and 3D creation forums, one will begin to learn the basic terms. Like any other specialized art or job, it does have a few of its own terms.

Mostly there's "model / mesh / object / geometry / figure" (seem to be used almost interchangeably) that means the 3D part. Those geometry parts are generated in very plain white. No color, no features, just plain unadorned white.

Since very plain white is not all that much fun to look at, the geometries need a "texture" or "skin" to color them and give them some flair.

The two pretty much go hand-in-hand. Neither does very weil without the other.

It took me 2-3 years just to learn texturing reasonably well. I still have a few offered in a small online shop for DAZ/Poser format (and free ones at a free hosting site). I am also making things for that format as I have time, inspiration, and energy.

I am still in the process of learning 3D modeling in Hexagon (another free professional-grade 3D modeling program that I hear is similar to Blender), and I've been poking away at tutorials in my spare time for a bit over a year now. I have an idea for what may hopefully be workable as a house item... and hope to have it submission-ready in a month or so.

Textures I have more confidence with than modeling, since I've been doing textures for several years now. The format for the games is a little different from what I had been doing, but I'm adapting.

I hear good things about "G.I.M.P." a free texturing program. Pretty nearly any 2D art program that lets you work with layers can be used to do the texturing part.

While it would be nice if both modeling and texturing could happen in a single program, that is unlikely to happen. The two needs are sufficiently specialized that probably any attempt to merge the two dissimilar functions would likely result in both functions being less... well, "functional."

SOE isn't a tools-type of software company. They produce entertainment software, also known as games. I suppose it's slightly possible that, if they were to abandon all game updates for 5 years or so, they *might* have time to create the type of program newcomers to the 3D art scene were hoping for. However, I don't anticipate that as likely to happen.

I'm content to let them do what they do best, designing ways to surprise us that usually turn out to be fun, and I'll work on learning more of this specific 3D format.

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Old 02-01-2013, 03:00 PM   #9
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Fixnit wrote:

One good thing is there are free programs out there to be used and I will certianly look into them but there is still the issue with knowing what the terms mean.  I have yet to find a dictionary for this problem.

To help you on a few terms:

The easiest way I can think of to help with some terms,. is have you look at a piece of graph paper.

1) Face: the white area with-in a single square.

2) Edge: easy enough, the lines that make up each square.

3) Vert: the point where 2 or more "edges" connect.

4) Poly: in most cases, this is made up using the "face" and the "edges" of a face. So a simple cube, has 6 faces & 12 edges,.. making the poly count equal 18.  Or at least that is how I was taught years ago to figure out a "poly count" on a 3D object.

Hope this helps a little.

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Old 02-02-2013, 06:31 PM   #10
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If you are looking for a dictionary of 3d graphics terms I suggest using the wiki on Polycount: http://wiki.polycount.com/  If that doesnt work you can also google the term and find more than enough information.

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Old 02-28-2013, 03:48 AM   #11
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A small disclaimer before I begin here. I love the idea and concept of Player Studio, I look forward to creating submissions for it and I think it is great SOE also gives us the opportunity to make some coin off of it!

What I am disappointed in though, is the lack of communication there is about the rules on the official website, where most people would go to learn more about this program. I wish these rules and "stances" on things were posted upfront on the Player Studio website. I have heard of a lot of people putting a lot of effort into submissions, waited for a few weeks to see if the item(s) get accepted, only to find out they violated some kind of unwritten rule and the submission is rejected. People are getting frustrated and turned off to Player Studio for this reason. I submitted some items (on another account) and actually saw them reach the final stage. Then out of no where, REJECTED, with the message that I am not allowed to use "iconography" from the games. If I had known I couldn't use icons / graphics from the games, I wouldn't have waisted my time (nor an SOE employees time) submitting them, faxing over my personal information to SOE (W-9 form) and waiting for a couple of weeks just to see my submission violates a "unspoken" / "unwritten" rule. I think it is a shame to have to find out the rules through trial and error basically and later, from word of mouth.

This would have to be my only big gripe about how this program is being handled, other than that, I love it.

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Old 02-28-2013, 09:08 AM   #12
rollenzekson

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BeastlyMana wrote:

A small disclaimer before I begin here. I love the idea and concept of Player Studio, I look forward to creating submissions for it and I think it is great SOE also gives us the opportunity to make some coin off of it!

What I am disappointed in though, is the lack of communication there is about the rules on the official website, where most people would go to learn more about this program. I wish these rules and "stances" on things were posted upfront on the Player Studio website. I have heard of a lot of people putting a lot of effort into submissions, waited for a few weeks to see if the item(s) get accepted, only to find out they violated some kind of unwritten rule and the submission is rejected. People are getting frustrated and turned off to Player Studio for this reason. I submitted some items (on another account) and actually saw them reach the final stage. Then out of no where, REJECTED, with the message that I am not allowed to use "iconography" from the games. If I had known I couldn't use icons / graphics from the games, I wouldn't have waisted my time (nor an SOE employees time) submitting them, faxing over my personal information to SOE (W-9 form) and waiting for a couple of weeks just to see my submission violates a "unspoken" / "unwritten" rule. I think it is a shame to have to find out the rules through trial and error basically and later, from word of mouth.

This would have to be my only big gripe about how this program is being handled, other than that, I love it.

I hear you buddy. Several of my best items have been rejected where several of my worst were accepted. It's mostly an issue of making something look worn and more realistic in order to conform to models that are currently in game, but I see people running around with giant perfectly shaped and undamaged candy canes, 2.0/2.5 epics that are brilliant in color and unrealistic looking and various weapons and shields with no wear and tear.

With this said I would bet my last Dollar that the junior artists at SOE have to put up with the same issues and that they have to rework the items they make once, twice or even more until the lead artist is satisfied. It's just a fact of game art AND they are paying us essentially so give them what they want.

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Old 02-28-2013, 09:26 AM   #13
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rollenzekson wrote:

BeastlyMana wrote:

A small disclaimer before I begin here. I love the idea and concept of Player Studio, I look forward to creating submissions for it and I think it is great SOE also gives us the opportunity to make some coin off of it!

What I am disappointed in though, is the lack of communication there is about the rules on the official website, where most people would go to learn more about this program. I wish these rules and "stances" on things were posted upfront on the Player Studio website. I have heard of a lot of people putting a lot of effort into submissions, waited for a few weeks to see if the item(s) get accepted, only to find out they violated some kind of unwritten rule and the submission is rejected. People are getting frustrated and turned off to Player Studio for this reason. I submitted some items (on another account) and actually saw them reach the final stage. Then out of no where, REJECTED, with the message that I am not allowed to use "iconography" from the games. If I had known I couldn't use icons / graphics from the games, I wouldn't have waisted my time (nor an SOE employees time) submitting them, faxing over my personal information to SOE (W-9 form) and waiting for a couple of weeks just to see my submission violates a "unspoken" / "unwritten" rule. I think it is a shame to have to find out the rules through trial and error basically and later, from word of mouth.

This would have to be my only big gripe about how this program is being handled, other than that, I love it.

I hear you buddy. Several of my best items have been rejected where several of my worst were accepted. It's mostly an issue of making something look worn and more realistic in order to conform to models that are currently in game, but I see people running around with giant perfectly shaped and undamaged candy canes, 2.0/2.5 epics that are brilliant in color and unrealistic looking and various weapons and shields with no wear and tear.

With this said I would bet my last Dollar that the junior artists at SOE have to put up with the same issues and that they have to rework the items they make once, twice or even more until the lead artist is satisfied. It's just a fact of game art AND they are paying us essentially so give them what they want.

I agree with you both, to a large extent. There are things we make that should not have to always look "old & used".  I will be submitting more "kitchen" wares tomorrow (a pot & 2 pans), and I really do NOT want them to look as if they have nasty food stains on them. The whole reason for me making these was so we could have nice looking pots & pans, not something that looks like it was used and never cleaned.  I am however planning on submitting  "new"  and "old" versons, and a verson with food cooking in them.  LOL any bets that the "new" ones won't make it?

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