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Old 03-15-2011, 10:50 PM   #1
Ythogtha

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Now that DOV has come into play, the defiler's already dismal DPS is even more evident. All of the priests are capable of putting out ~30kdps, but the defiler is still severely lacking.

What bad would it do to give us a little dps potential to help with the horror of soloing. PLEASE look into this.

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Old 03-16-2011, 06:17 AM   #2
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Our DPS is fine as it is. We are great healers not dps ... healers. I'd like to see another healer doing 30k dps regularly. I doubt you will find it, so those numbers are pulled out of your hat without any real thought. We can still do some dps in our combat stance. I was doing 10-17k dps in SF, in raids before Dov came out.

Our dps goes up as our potency goes up. I find myself doing 7-10k on lord bob for example, as solo healer and i am in healing stance. So yeah we can do some dps.

If you truly want dps then you shouldn't be rolling a defiler, roll something else. If people want dps they will bring dps. If they want a very strong solo healer, they will bring a defiler. That's what we are best at. Solo healing things other healers only dream about.

Soloing ? no problem there. Combat stance on, all permanent buffs on yourself, Harbinger on yourself and dog, pull 7-10 mobs, defile on, anything else that hits more than 1 mob, laugh at seeing them dying and you're not taking any damage. No issue soloing at all.

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Old 03-16-2011, 10:07 AM   #3
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You misunderstand me, I am perfectly fine with healing, and I understand the role of the defiler, and I am fine with that, but I am standing next to a fury, killing the same mobs in Eastern Wastes, and he is killing them 7x as fast with the same PQ gear that I am wearing, I just don't think it's right.

As for pulling the numbers out of my hat?... Read a couple of threads.

http://www.eq2flames.com/furies/760...dov-parses.html

http://www.eq2flames.com/mystics/63...-thread-25.html (towards the last page of the thread)

Furies, Mystics, Wardens, and Inquisitors all get these numbers, and their healing is not docked that signifigantly to compensate.  I want to heal, I don't want to be a dps class, so that's perfectly fine, I understood that coming into playing the class. It's just, the monontony and time it takes during soloingin DOV is unnecessary, killing anything takes absolute ages. I would be fine if they reduced the duration on our DoTs so damage applied faster or something, at least in offensive stance, or something like that.

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Old 03-16-2011, 10:25 AM   #4
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It took me about 15-20 minutes the other night to kill a ^ namer in [Removed for Content] the other day on my defiler.  Granted I could ward and heal myself so he stood no chance vs me, but still who in the hell considers fighting a single mob, for that length of time solo, fun?  About a week ago I had posted on these forums on another thread with all these extra hitpoints all these mobs now have, it took my defiler about 45 minutes to kill like 6 mobs I needed for a quest.  Granted there was a few minutes used to run around finding the few mobs I needed, but still.

Speaking as one who has 2 accounts full of toons, and just about every class played in the game, I can attest the defiler is pretty much the worst as far as doing damage.  Makes soloing a extreme snoozefest.  I would be in favor of some kind of DPS increase.  Right now as it stands our DPS should be rated more as DPM, in minutes not seconds, lol.

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Old 03-16-2011, 08:48 PM   #5
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The thing is, I don't even have any other characters to compare this character too, I just know from watching other equally geared people fight the DOV mobs, and it's seriously depressing.

What would be so wrong bringing us up to Fury/Inquisitor/Warden/Mystic dps wise? It would make the class so much more enjoyable.

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Old 03-17-2011, 06:15 AM   #6
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Ythogtha wrote:

The thing is, I don't even have any other characters to compare this character too, I just know from watching other equally geared people fight the DOV mobs, and it's seriously depressing.

What would be so wrong bringing us up to Fury/Inquisitor/Warden/Mystic dps wise? It would make the class so much more enjoyable.

Well, from what I've seen so far this is what I can say :

mystics are supposed to be our dps counterpart which is why they have ways of doing significant dps.Inquisitors were very stong true but they are more like battle priests and again they are the dps version of their counterparts, the templars

Furies have a lot of abilities to do damage although you'd be hard pressed to find a good one. From my own experience, all furies I've seen call themselves dps and yet do pathetic damage, they do have some nice healing abilities though. Maybe I missed on the good furies, who knows.

My only worry is that everyone is so concerned with dps that forgets what a game should be all about. maybe I am old fashioned i don't know. I just think it's wrong for all priests to do massive dps. Some dps is ok, but really that is not our purpose.

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Old 03-17-2011, 06:25 AM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

It took me about 15-20 minutes the other night to kill a ^ namer in [Removed for Content] the other day on my defiler.  Granted I could ward and heal myself so he stood no chance vs me, but still who in the hell considers fighting a single mob, for that length of time solo, fun?  About a week ago I had posted on these forums on another thread with all these extra hitpoints all these mobs now have, it took my defiler about 45 minutes to kill like 6 mobs I needed for a quest.  Granted there was a few minutes used to run around finding the few mobs I needed, but still.

Speaking as one who has 2 accounts full of toons, and just about every class played in the game, I can attest the defiler is pretty much the worst as far as doing damage.  Makes soloing a extreme snoozefest.  I would be in favor of some kind of DPS increase.  Right now as it stands our DPS should be rated more as DPM, in minutes not seconds, lol.

It is not my intention to offend you or anything, but you and a few others like you have a certain way of thinking which excludes everything other people say.

15-20 minutes to kill a^ namer ? Cmon, tell me which namer and where he is and I'll go fight him and I will freaking do it in SF marks legendary armor. I am willing to bet it won't be more than 2-3 minutes fight and no I am not joking.

I already told you how to solo, which abilities to use. heck you can use an aa mirror , take all the dps increase you have, use combat stance and go out there. No way 6 mobs take you 45 minutes, sorry. That is just pure BS.

You tell me that you know how to play your class and yet to make these statements which show that it's not really the case.

A game, any game is about finding a balance and finding ways of doing things, using the abilities you have at your disposal. I am not saying I am the all knowing , best played defiler, far from that. But to come here and tell me all this crap, it really boggles the mind.

Perhaps I should have asked you how many aa you have, do you even have combat stance ? Do you use lithany of combat ?

If you answered yes to the last 2 questions, there is no way in hell it takes you 45 minutes to kill 6 quest mobs.

I can show you I am killing 8-10 mobs in 30 seconds. True you might not have my sf fabled gear, but I tried with the quest armor on , from dov, which any can get and I can still kill 5-6 mobs in under a minute.

I think last time I replied to you , you called me a troll.

I've already shown you ways of making soloing easy and yet you refuse to even consider them, you keep telling me how good you are at playing your class and yet you tell me you kill 6 quest mobs in 45 minutes ? What a joke ...

At lerast tell me this ... how much aa you have and what equipment are you using and tell me how fight that namer. Since it took you 25 minutes surely you remember which spells tyou sued and when ...

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Old 03-17-2011, 06:28 AM   #8
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Ythogtha wrote:

The thing is, I don't even have any other characters to compare this character too, I just know from watching other equally geared people fight the DOV mobs, and it's seriously depressing.

What would be so wrong bringing us up to Fury/Inquisitor/Warden/Mystic dps wise? It would make the class so much more enjoyable.

Equally geared maybe, bot what about aa and spells quality ? AA is extremely important to improve your performance.

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Old 03-18-2011, 09:40 AM   #9
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Sorry, I have to completely disagree.  "~30k dps"!  I have a Templar and am lucky if I can pull 2k.  The Defiler is on par with a Templar.  They are meant to be healers and not dpsers.  I have accepted that and find ways to deal with it.  One of the ways is to get an AA respec mirror and have a DPS/Solo Spec which will give you an increase in DPS, and a Heal Spec/Group - Raid Spec.

Some other things you can do to help out with your defilers dps is get your Defile spell and master it.  Then add 5 points to Defile in your AA line.  Do the same thing with Maelstrom   You heal yourself until that spell becomes available and then hit it.  While your waiting for it to come available cycle through your Heroic opportunity and make sure you're using your debuffs.  It is a lot more challenging to solo mobs, but it can be done. 

btw: Fury/Warden are unique healers and are more of a "best of both worlds" class.  They have have dps and heals.  But, while they are fast casters, they are required to have that, because they have very little reactives and wards, and have to heal when damage is dealt. 

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Old 03-18-2011, 11:08 AM   #10
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Pulling myself out of this convo.  I don't feed E-forum trolls.

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Old 03-21-2011, 10:51 AM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

Pulling myself out of this convo.  I don't feed E-forum trolls.

Coming from a troll, this comment is really amazing lol.

People who can play a lot better than you are not trolls. It wouldn't hurt to listen once in a while, since you have absolutely nothing to show for yourself.

Also I see you have nothing to respond to everything I said, which is pretty much what I suspected to begin with. You don't have a clue, no idea how to play, but call others who do, trolls. Way to go mate ... way to go.

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Old 03-22-2011, 10:45 AM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

Ythogtha wrote:

The thing is, I don't even have any other characters to compare this character too, I just know from watching other equally geared people fight the DOV mobs, and it's seriously depressing.

What would be so wrong bringing us up to Fury/Inquisitor/Warden/Mystic dps wise? It would make the class so much more enjoyable.

Equally geared maybe, bot what about aa and spells quality ? AA is extremely important to improve your performance.

Everyone has seemed to misunderstand me, I am not asking to be wanted in groups for my DPS, I just want our ability to solo to be improved. When I am in a group I 100% expect, and want, to be healing.

I'm not at 300aa yet, currently sitting at 281, and to make matters worse, said fury only had ~200 aa.

I will say though, I just picked up Avenging Ancestors, and for group encounters I have to say it has signifigantly improved my DPS, the only downside is that it is dependant on the one minute+ cooldown that defile and avenging ancestors have on it.

In all honesty I wasn't asking for a huge DPS jump, just that I would even just like to be equal with our mystic counterparts. I really do think there is a problem when the common concensus for leveling up a defiler solo is "Betray to mystic and then betray back at 90." To me that emphasises an inherent problem.

I would like to make a couple of suggestions that might help.

1) Perhaps spell damage/potency could be further boosted in Offense Stance.

2) Make the endline of the intelligence tree (Scourge) a spell that is actually usuable in a solo environment. I mean I rarely fight mobs that have effects to dispel, especially in DOV. Currently compared to the other lines, the intelligence line is widely considered to be the junk line. Give it really good damage spell not dependant on dispelling effects, and give it a relatively short recast, perhaps not as short as Imprecate, but about on par with Fulginous Whip.

3) Have the endline of the intelligence tree be a click ability that readies all offensive abilities currently on cooldown, and give it a minute or so re-use timer.

Any three of these things would vastly improve soloing potential.

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Old 03-23-2011, 11:20 AM   #13
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Ythogtha wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Ythogtha wrote:

The thing is, I don't even have any other characters to compare this character too, I just know from watching other equally geared people fight the DOV mobs, and it's seriously depressing.

What would be so wrong bringing us up to Fury/Inquisitor/Warden/Mystic dps wise? It would make the class so much more enjoyable.

Equally geared maybe, bot what about aa and spells quality ? AA is extremely important to improve your performance.

Everyone has seemed to misunderstand me, I am not asking to be wanted in groups for my DPS, I just want our ability to solo to be improved. When I am in a group I 100% expect, and want, to be healing.

I'm not at 300aa yet, currently sitting at 281, and to make matters worse, said fury only had ~200 aa.

I will say though, I just picked up Avenging Ancestors, and for group encounters I have to say it has signifigantly improved my DPS, the only downside is that it is dependant on the one minute+ cooldown that defile and avenging ancestors have on it.

In all honesty I wasn't asking for a huge DPS jump, just that I would even just like to be equal with our mystic counterparts. I really do think there is a problem when the common concensus for leveling up a defiler solo is "Betray to mystic and then betray back at 90." To me that emphasises an inherent problem.

I would like to make a couple of suggestions that might help.

1) Perhaps spell damage/potency could be further boosted in Offense Stance.

2) Make the endline of the intelligence tree (Scourge) a spell that is actually usuable in a solo environment. I mean I rarely fight mobs that have effects to dispel, especially in DOV. Currently compared to the other lines, the intelligence line is widely considered to be the junk line. Give it really good damage spell not dependant on dispelling effects, and give it a relatively short recast, perhaps not as short as Imprecate, but about on par with Fulginous Whip.

3) Have the endline of the intelligence tree be a click ability that readies all offensive abilities currently on cooldown, and give it a minute or so re-use timer.

Any three of these things would vastly improve soloing potential.

1) Maybe, but you'd have to use it first SMILEY. If you run an instance, solo heal and find it easy, switch to melee stance , put lithany of combat on and see what happens.

2) well hmm, looking at our options, I can't see what I could drop for Scourge regardless of how good that is. I am an old school healer I suppose, I'd try any option but in the end stick with what keeps the group up.

we can do some dps, even in healing stance , just turn auto attack on, you'll probably be surprised to see quite some damage there.

3) I don't think that would be very useful as we do have several damage things we can cast while healing

I never tried avenging ancestors, it sounds more like an AA window option for solo play. Personally I went with Aegis and I am quite happy with my choice.

Can I ask what aa spec are you using ?

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Old 03-23-2011, 12:01 PM   #14
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/giggles

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Old 03-24-2011, 06:04 AM   #15
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Vulkan_NTooki wrote:

/giggles

Hey Vulk,  one of the best tanks I've ever played with SMILEY

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Old 04-18-2011, 01:16 PM   #16
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I made a defiler to have a perfect healer and I say - less dps, more heals! I am very disappointed with the AA a defiler has. It's really hard to build a true healer. SOE constantly shows me that I have to play a melee DPS defiler but that's not why I rolled this toon - for damage dealing I have other toons.

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Old 04-19-2011, 09:23 AM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

I made a defiler to have a perfect healer and I say - less dps, more heals! I am very disappointed with the AA a defiler has. It's really hard to build a true healer. SOE constantly shows me that I have to play a melee DPS defiler but that's not why I rolled this toon - for damage dealing I have other toons.

How you play your defiler is a personal choice. There's nothing wrong with a melee defiler, I know cause I am one of them.

All you need to do is allow the tank to get the mob, position yourself behind it, turn auto-attack on and just keep going about your business. If you can put out 20k dps , or more, while MT healing, no one is going to complain about it.

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Old 04-20-2011, 10:59 AM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

How you play your defiler is a personal choice. There's nothing wrong with a melee defiler, I know cause I am one of them.

Well if SOE would give Defilers a better mix I would agree but the AA of the defiler is not really suited to boost healing and warding but more to boost dps and debuffing. That's all I am saying.

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Old 04-21-2011, 06:13 AM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

How you play your defiler is a personal choice. There's nothing wrong with a melee defiler, I know cause I am one of them.

Well if SOE would give Defilers a better mix I would agree but the AA of the defiler is not really suited to boost healing and warding but more to boost dps and debuffing. That's all I am saying.

I would disagree with you here. There are a lot of options that improve every single heal and ward . Heck you even get wards on when you cure either simple or group.

You are on a pvp server so you would probably use the abilties that improve debuffiing and probably Scourge. Personally I don't use that line at all and that frees up aa to be used in other lines.

Debuffiing wise we get some very powerful abilities which i like a lot : Shadow Trap, Malicious Spirits, Hexation. Anything that reduces the damage the mob does counts as healing in my book SMILEY. I consider any debuff that reduces the power cost to be useless so i never take them, but again, your mileage may vary.

The shadows tree is full of healing / warding abilites, not to mention Devout Endurance which adds about 70 sta for the whole group . 700 extra hp for everyone  is nothing to sniff at.

What i like is that we can do a bit more than just healing, we have the options to spec some melee dps and maybe some spells as well. Having 300 aa sure helps with taking pretty much all you can possibly want SMILEY.

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Old 04-24-2011, 11:53 AM   #20
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They need to change the Curseweaving line to change the base reuse/casting speed/recovery speed of all non-healing spells of the defiler by 25% (Base=Before Real Reuse/Recast, uncontested, will change it nomatter what its at).

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Old 04-24-2011, 10:25 PM   #21
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I hate to come here and break anyone's bubble, but I've seen a Templar do 35-40k dps, a defiler break 30k and every other healer do 50k+ dps. The difference between those people and the naysayers crying here is that those people are super-dedicated to playing to their fullest potential. If you just want to be a great healer as far as pure healing ability, that's fine, but you're wasting part of your built-in utility. A truly great healer is the one doing their job healing without overhealing while also doing the maximum dps they can and casting all vital debuffs without fail.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:05 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

I hate to come here and break anyone's bubble, but I've seen a Templar do 35-40k dps, a defiler break 30k and every other healer do 50k+ dps. The difference between those people and the naysayers crying here is that those people are super-dedicated to playing to their fullest potential. If you just want to be a great healer as far as pure healing ability, that's fine, but you're wasting part of your built-in utility. A truly great healer is the one doing their job healing without overhealing while also doing the maximum dps they can and casting all vital debuffs without fail.

I am not surprised some defilers can break 30k dps. The more potency you get the more dps you do.

Of course it's more than that . My point all along was that we have more than enough tools at our disposal to do some dps alongside nice healing. 30k dps sounds impressive, but it doesn't really say much when others are doing 150k or 200k dps.

Personally I find that debuffiing the mob is much more important than casting a few other abilities, which granted add to our dps.

In the end , it's up to the individual player how they want to play. The ones that cannot figure out how to play will keep complaining and the others will just play the game and get better and better results.

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Old 04-28-2011, 12:04 PM   #23
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Don't know where you're getting 150k-200k as far as healers...The highest parsing fury in the world in the highest parsing guild in the world I saw break 150k on a single 17 second AoE trash burn...that's not really 150k on a consistent basis. If dps classes can do 100-300k that's because they are dps classes. You seem to be saying that the OP was full of whiny crap, with which I agree, though, so not sure what the last post was really about SMILEY
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:13 AM   #24
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[email protected] wrote:

Don't know where you're getting 150k-200k as far as healers...The highest parsing fury in the world in the highest parsing guild in the world I saw break 150k on a single 17 second AoE trash burn...that's not really 150k on a consistent basis. If dps classes can do 100-300k that's because they are dps classes. You seem to be saying that the OP was full of whiny crap, with which I agree, though, so not sure what the last post was really about

sorry my bad. i meant dps classes do 150k or over not us healers. Bad way of expressing myself which led to a misunderstanding .

We as healers do what we do, i've seen mystics doing 50-60k, furies doing something decent as well. we defilers don't really amaze the world with our dps, but we can hold our ground and and put out 20-30k sometimes.

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Old 05-17-2011, 01:08 PM   #25
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've noticed you have been giving healers spell double attack lately and upgrading there spell damage.

 

Theirs two things id like for you to look at.

 

Rabid Hostility, its been in our Shaman Line for awile.

it adds 2% Hostile Spell Casting Speed.

 

We have been Capped for casting speed since TSO, this aa line was made in SF.

Can you change it to 1-2% Spell Double Attack Per Point?, this will greatly improve the damage we do, so we can do damage on par with Mystics as a Defiler.

 

 

Also

Spiritual Ally.

We give up 20% Healing for 10% damage and a useless pet proc.

Can you change the pet proc to 10% Spell Double Attack?

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Old 05-18-2011, 09:12 AM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

've noticed you have been giving healers spell double attack lately and upgrading there spell damage.

 

Theirs two things id like for you to look at.

 

Rabid Hostility, its been in our Shaman Line for awile.

it adds 2% Hostile Spell Casting Speed.

 

We have been Capped for casting speed since TSO, this aa line was made in SF.

Can you change it to 1-2% Spell Double Attack Per Point?, this will greatly improve the damage we do, so we can do damage on par with Mystics as a Defiler.

 

 

Also

Spiritual Ally.

We give up 20% Healing for 10% damage and a useless pet proc.

Can you change the pet proc to 10% Spell Double Attack?

If this is supposed to be a suggestion for the devs, why not make your own thread ???

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Old 05-24-2011, 01:50 AM   #27
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I can't really speak for SF or DoV, but I know in TSO until you had a reasonable bit of AA, defiler dps was miserable, but with even a decent bit of AA and reasonably decent gear and upgraded spells/abilities DPS was decent and soloing was more then tolerable.  By endgame, with 150+AA and decently good gear and upgraded spells my defiler was putting out 4K+ parses solo.  As it is, I still have no problem taking down multiple mobs or even single targets, while maintaining self healing.

Learn to use the class better, and use your auto attack, and your dog.  Even if your dog is ONLY doing 200 DPS, it adds up.  Menial or not, the dog is a useful tool, and your wasting potential by not using it, all you have to do is send it in to attack, or even set it to defend itself and you, and then ignore it.  Auto attack is the same way, hit the ~ key and go back to casting.  And last but not least, if its REALLY that bad, use your HO's, that little thing you get REALLY early on around lvl 8 or so?? yea, it can add a K to your dps if you get the right ones.

Just my 2cents, but defiler DPS is fine, and our healing is top of the line.

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Old 06-02-2011, 06:14 PM   #28
Arabani

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[email protected] wrote:

We as healers do what we do, i've seen mystics doing 50-60k, furies doing something decent as well. we defilers don't really amaze the world with our dps, but we can hold our ground and and put out 20-30k sometimes.

Mystics,inqs and furies are doing 100-150k. My personal highest as MT templar was 90k, average around 50-60k. I'll say defiler can do more, prolly not so high as mystic, but average should be around 80k. It's all about skills and gear.

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Old 06-13-2011, 06:22 AM   #29
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Arabani wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

We as healers do what we do, i've seen mystics doing 50-60k, furies doing something decent as well. we defilers don't really amaze the world with our dps, but we can hold our ground and and put out 20-30k sometimes.

Mystics,inqs and furies are doing 100-150k. My personal highest as MT templar was 90k, average around 50-60k. I'll say defiler can do more, prolly not so high as mystic, but average should be around 80k. It's all about skills and gear.

I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but they are not realistic. Anyone can probably do amazing dps in full raid gear with all the bonuses etc but since that is not really attainable by most of the population your post is moot and worthless. We are talking here about class dps in general. Your "skill" is not gonna help you do great dps if you don't have the gear to support it.

"Average should be around 80k" . That is pure BS to be honest.

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Old 06-14-2011, 01:24 AM   #30
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Since I posted last here, yes, my dps has skyrocketed, especially on AoE fights. And especially on burns where people are blowing Miracles and Blessings...but please don't try to even remotely convince people that those healers are doing those numbers zonewide, because they aren't end of story. Yes I can do 120-140k dps on a good AoE burn...I can even do close to 100k single target dps. But I don't do it every fight. Granted SoN's rw dps could use some work, but there's no way in the world zonewides for healers are that high in any guild outside of Equilibrium or Surreal on easy mode crap.
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