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Old 12-20-2011, 03:47 PM   #1
Coffee_Hound

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What exactly are people expecting out of me when they invite me to their group?  I thought I had my class figured out, but after complaints that don’t make sense to me, I thought I would ask here. 

Here’s basically what I’m doing - I have all of my group buffs up, including Fanaticism, Inquest (on a scout or tank), and Tenacity on the tank and 1 scout class.  My priority is healing, of course, but I also DPS as much as I can (usually leading off with my reverse damage shields).   I normally don’t cure detriments or debuff because it doesn’t appear to help much in the content I am doing. 

I thought I was doing fine, but here are the complaints/suggestions from groupmates: 

1.  Don’t DPS.  I should concentrate on healing.  This doesn’t make sense to me since I can contribute decent DPS to the group without letting anyone die.  Still, if this is a reasonable suggestion, I’ll do it. 

2.  Cure all detriments.  This seems unnecessary in easier content; however, I’ll do it if that’s what is expected from me. 

3.  Debuff after I cast my first reactives.  Again, this seems unnecessary for the content I’m doing. 

So, am I “doing it wrong”?   Also, is there anything else I should be doing?  

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Old 12-20-2011, 04:02 PM   #2
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You neglected to mention specifically what content you are doing and with whom you are doing it.  Context is EVERYTHING in EQ2, and you haven't given folks enough to go on.

So, when my raid geared Inquis finds himself healing for a group of raid geared people doing updates in ToFS or something, no, I don't cure or debuff or whatever.  The context doesn't call for it.  On the other hand, when solo healing Temple of Rallos Zek Challenge mode, I am constantly hovering over the cure keys and being sure that all my debuffs are up on the mob.

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Old 12-20-2011, 04:12 PM   #3
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Honestly, I neglected to mention the specific content because I can't remember the name of the dungeons. 

It's the easier stuff that ranges from level 80 to 90 with people in that level range.  I haven't gotten to the new (harder) content yet.

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Old 12-20-2011, 06:26 PM   #4
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So not even 90 yet.  You need to learn to do your job first and foremost.  These early, easy zones are your best chance to learn how to do it.  Your job is to heal and cure your group.  You are a Priest, and those tasks are always job 1.  Secondly you debuff the mob.  If you still have time after that, throw what DPS you can at it.

You weren't brought to the group because you could DPS.  I promise.  You were brought to keep the other players alive and able to do their jobs without impairment.

Just because a given effect isn't outright killing your group, does not in any way mean it doesn't need to be cured.  It could easily be a Stifle, and you as a Steadfast Cleric, would never know.  It could be a tiny DoT that has an interrupt component which keeps screwing with the other casters in your group.  It could be a root that prevents other members of your group from moving as they need to.  Whatever it is, you have no excuse for not getting it off them.

You are a Priest that can DPS some, not a DPS that can heal some.

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Old 12-20-2011, 09:03 PM   #5
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Without the Epic Repercussions done (and I assume you haven't) Inquisitor is a whole different ballgame.

Post-ER curing is trivialized with the unmyth cure to the point where I use it to cure a single person in group zones since it will also proc a large heal on them (especially with Dogma).

You should always be meleeing unless this will get you killed, assuming you have Combative Healing or Fanatical Devotion. (tbh good practice before too)  Battle Dressing can be a sizable chunk of healing if you're a solo healer and Fanatical Devotion's group DPS support is simply amazing.

It's still my opinion that Forced Obedience and Heresy aren't worth the time and effort casting them, but Condemn and Deny should be up on all bosses and Condemn is good to have on any mob to help everyone else hurt it more.

Inquisitors are expected to Cure, Heal, DPS in that order, but should be doing all three even if all the DPS is auto-attack and Strike of Flames / Writhing Strike for the added arcane debuff.  Pre-ER it's probably Heal, Cure, DPS since most lower level content doesn't have detriments even worth curing.

Steadfast is the ultimate Cleric AA and if you don't have it reorganize to have it immediately.  Beyond that shooting for Divine Guidance or Chilling Invigoration are both good choices and you should get both ASAP.  Shield Ally / Holy Shield are another nice thing to push for if you're planning to be a tank healer for most of your career.  The Inquisitor heal stance is the worst stance of any Cleric and unless you have the focus that gives 10% crit bonus in one of the stances I'd suggest your choice should be between Persecution stance or no stance depending on healing needs.  Heal Stance is a last resort kind of thing if you're not healing a MT group in a raid or doing Elements of War Hard Mode or something.

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Old 12-21-2011, 12:21 AM   #6
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Coffee_Hound wrote:

What exactly are people expecting out of me when they invite me to their group?  I thought I had my class figured out, but after complaints that don’t make sense to me, I thought I would ask here. 

Here’s basically what I’m doing - I have all of my group buffs up, including Fanaticism, Inquest (on a scout or tank), and Tenacity on the tank and 1 scout class.  My priority is healing, of course, but I also DPS as much as I can (usually leading off with my reverse damage shields).   I normally don’t cure detriments or debuff because it doesn’t appear to help much in the content I am doing. 

I thought I was doing fine, but here are the complaints/suggestions from groupmates: 

1.  Don’t DPS.  I should concentrate on healing.  This doesn’t make sense to me since I can contribute decent DPS to the group without letting anyone die.  Still, if this is a reasonable suggestion, I’ll do it. 

2.  Cure all detriments.  This seems unnecessary in easier content; however, I’ll do it if that’s what is expected from me. 

3.  Debuff after I cast my first reactives.  Again, this seems unnecessary for the content I’m doing. 

So, am I “doing it wrong”?   Also, is there anything else I should be doing?  

It is also possible you were allowing the group to wipe perhaps? Or maybe you had a touchy tank who never wants to be stifled or rooted? Maybe some 'sensitive' personality running that ACT parser that needs to have every fight be #1 parse? You're not very specific so it's hard to give you better - "what you should do..."

I concur with the others but I'd add my own additions to the mix:

Your experience in EQ2 depends on who you are playing with.  People who give you that advice in that order in non-DOV content are the same people that demand all crit mit adorns in content that doesn't require it. 

I find that lots of 'backseat' drivers take their displaced aggression out on undergeared folk on the way up.  For instance say my main Inq with 180 Pot/CB full masters 100% cast speed 300AA etc. parses what raid geared tanks without stacked groups for their personal dps do or non-spike DPS classes do in heroic zones

They get jealous of my performance because you know... I'm healing, curing, and doing the same DPS as them.  When they're playing alt #5 with someone like you they like to bully and discourage and tell you how to play since they can't bully someone like myself.  Their ego and self-value is linked to what ACT says...

But not given the direct context of the complaints you mention (zone, group makeup, etc.) I know that I lead with debuffs, stack CA's (which have debuffs in them), use the punishments, hit the odd alleviation (make note of my AA and CB/pot values please...), and use the myth cure with the odd group cure... and I walk over things like a superstar. 

Honestly, I'd stay away from people like that on your Inq.  With mercs there is no need to full-group till you get your Rygorr if you're being crapped on like that. 

Again, there is a lot of displaced hate towards Inqs from other classes and more especially the types of people who sometimes play those other classes that are vocal critics.  Unless you happened to be unfortunate to play with SOE people who want to preen upcoming players NOT to play Inqs to their full potential.  I've run into quite a few clueless SOE employees I had to set straight.  They all don't run Inqs or code mechanics. 

The most entertaining endgame is all those -pst with CC and CM to do X heroic zone who don't let me in zones I've already done with less CM then they're asking for probably because they've been told to socially pressure the population to clog those slots with CM adorns. 

You're still at the stage they're trying to tell you how to play.  I'm at the stage they're trying to control my adorn choices on me gear via exclusion since they can't complain about my effectiveness.  My solution is I just don't play with people without the intellectual capacity to recognize that you don't need 240CM to run EM X4 X2 and the greater fraction of the kael zones. 

TLDR: Who you play with is just as important as what to do in what situation.  EQ2 is a big place, avoid playing with people like that till you're overgeared.  I don't like playing with people like that even though I am overgeared vs any heroic content in EQ2.

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Old 12-21-2011, 05:42 AM   #7
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I can't give that any Inquisitor specific advice because my personal wisdom of the class in practice is limited to a sub level 30 inquis for now.  I am interested in the lines of what SMITE touched on, though, and perhaps fill in a couple gaps on something I would strongly agree with.  Don't take it the wrong way, but they might be genuinely trying to help, because they know the situation and conditions well.  There are definately some characters with more equipment than brains to have ever figured out how to get said armor; regardless of method of acquisition, but thats neither here nor there.

I'd rather someone was trying to help me be better, even if wrong or slightly wrong in the reason or direction they point you in: at least you are aware that something may not be right, and have an idea at what to start looking at. 

It drives me nuts to be in a new situation with a bunch of otherwise veteran players, indicate early on I don't have a clue about a particular area, and then later find out I did something wrong because I didn't know better in that situation.  No one is blaming me in particular, necessarily, but it is what I did because I didn't know that made a straightforward situation a complex problem; or at worst, a failing condition.  The worst part of it all is, I gave them an opportunity to offer advice, and made them aware that I dont know any better, but they couldnt be bothered to explain the key parts.  Maybe a reluctance to say anything constructive in order to be -nice- about it, and so the saying the goes, if ya cant say anything nice dont say anything, right? 

The groups that don't talk about this stuff are the first groups to struggle (aside ones that are clearly beyond their ability/capability: 1000 nekkid level five knomes marching on Vulak`Aerr will not be effective no matter how impressive nor how much they plan the timing of their little harm touches).  Every group of random people that I have ever been with who talks through  the puzzles and challenges often does much better than the ones that don't; even if we have all done it because we might not all do it the same, or place the same responsibilities on the same player/role.  Even if our strategy doesnt work out, at least we have some idea why the tank did what they did, and why the mage did what they did; and hopefully, we learned something from that, and if necessary and able, can adjust.  This strategy/planning would encompass coaching new players in the key areas. 

I always found, that if I don't know, despite whatever my instinct tells me, do it they way they want the first time, and the second time, suggest trying what your instinct (or peraps a better source of info) told you.  Its hard to argue with an example as clear as that.

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Old 12-21-2011, 12:56 PM   #8
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Wow!  I didn’t think I would get such detailed answers.  Thank you, everyone!  I read every post at least twice and I’m even changing a couple AAs.

So the short answer is that the people complaining about my playing were right.  I thought that I was doing the right thing since no one was dying, but I guess the (non) difficulty of the zone was the real hero.  Haha!

On the people – I didn’t feel like anyone was crapping on me or anything.  I can see now that they were just trying to help.  I’m completely willing to change whatever I’m doing to do the best job possible.  I just wanted to know why too since not all advice is necessarily good advice.  

Thanks again 

 

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Old 12-21-2011, 01:33 PM   #9
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Coffee_Hound wrote:

Wow!  I didn’t think I would get such detailed answers.  Thank you, everyone!  I read every post at least twice and I’m even changing a couple AAs.

So the short answer is that the people complaining about my playing were right.  I thought that I was doing the right thing since no one was dying, but I guess the (non) difficulty of the zone was the real hero.  Haha!

On the people – I didn’t feel like anyone was crapping on me or anything.  I can see now that they were just trying to help.  I’m completely willing to change whatever I’m doing to do the best job possible.  I just wanted to know why too since not all advice is necessarily good advice.  

Thanks again 

Eh...they're right and they're not.

There are a lot of different ways to play your class. Find what works for you and do it. You'll find as you get to 90, get those 320 AA, and snag different gear that the game will absolutely change for your inquis. Quite honestly, its like playing a whole new game.

So, yes, cure your group. Otherwise, as long as they aren't dying, feel free to DPS your brains out SMILEY

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Old 12-22-2011, 06:59 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

Coffee_Hound wrote:

Wow!  I didn’t think I would get such detailed answers.  Thank you, everyone!  I read every post at least twice and I’m even changing a couple AAs.

So the short answer is that the people complaining about my playing were right.  I thought that I was doing the right thing since no one was dying, but I guess the (non) difficulty of the zone was the real hero.  Haha!

On the people – I didn’t feel like anyone was crapping on me or anything.  I can see now that they were just trying to help.  I’m completely willing to change whatever I’m doing to do the best job possible.  I just wanted to know why too since not all advice is necessarily good advice.  

Thanks again 

Eh...they're right and they're not.

There are a lot of different ways to play your class. Find what works for you and do it. You'll find as you get to 90, get those 320 AA, and snag different gear that the game will absolutely change for your inquis. Quite honestly, its like playing a whole new game.

So, yes, cure your group. Otherwise, as long as they aren't dying, feel free to DPS your brains out

This last line by Laenai is the most important line any healer should remember.  The heal parse is completely meaningless, the cure parse is similarly so.  The only metric of importance is 'are your group members dying?' and 'could you have prevented it?'  As long as the answers are either 'No they're not dying', or things like 'Yes but it's because the assassin pulls aggro one second into a fight and gets instantly smushed', you're doing fine.

We can tell you how to play optimally but I think you having fun should be the first priority.

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Old 01-02-2012, 10:24 AM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

This last line by Laenai is the most important line any healer should remember.  The heal parse is completely meaningless, the cure parse is similarly so.  The only metric of importance is 'are your group members dying?' and 'could you have prevented it?'  As long as the answers are either 'No they're not dying', or things like 'Yes but it's because the assassin pulls aggro one second into a fight and gets instantly smushed', you're doing fine.

We can tell you how to play optimally but I think you having fun should be the first priority.

Only if the Assassin doesn't pull argro 'cause the tank has a curable stun / stifle / daze effect (which can be and is in some zones the initial attack of a mob).

Curing can really make a huge difference depending on the effect and the worst things may not be the damage the effect does. So 1st it is best to cure all effects. As you get to know the class and zones better it is a good idea to inspect the negative effects and check out what they do. Anything that dazes, stifles, roots or stuns should always be cured as fast as possible. As should be all effects that deal a huge amount of damage. But there are many small DOTs you won't need to cure. But as long as you don't know which they are it is better to cure all.

I hope you have fun playing the class as it is a fun class to play and it is also nice to add some DPS beside keeping the group alive, as long as you know, that that isn't our main focus, but our secondary. SMILEY

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Old 01-02-2012, 01:21 PM   #12
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Coffee_Hound wrote:

 What is expected from an Inquisitor?

A nerf.

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