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Old 11-30-2010, 07:56 PM   #1
Adegx
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Final guy in Palace (instance, not raid). I could barely keep my group up, due to his Elemental dot I forget the name. Eventually He'd overwhelm all my temps and the group would drop Normally this occured around 30-50%.  Now while i dont dispute with more dps i could have solo healed that fight. That is not the point.

I'm relatively sure that the particular dot in question ignores wards. ACT seems to dispute this.

I could see some damage from the dot in question being warded by dog and tribal rage ward but not from group and ST. Also watched group members die while full Group ward was in play.

 How am i to keep a group up with such a hard ticking dot without wards? Group heal only cycles so fast.  We ended up bringing a warden in and the fight was absolute cake.   Is there some trick i'm missing here? I'm fairly well geared mostly t1 raid stuff or better. All masters (~230 AA's) and i'd like to think i know the class well.  

I subscribe to the different but equal theory when it comes to priests classes. I acknowledge some classes heal groups better than others. But i dont understand is shamans are built around the entire concept of warding/preventing damage. And they they start to add in damage sources that shatter that. (Lifeburn also irks me, but is atleast do-able)

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Old 11-30-2010, 08:30 PM   #2
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I think I solo healed that fight with my Mystic in TSO raid gear, so gear shouldn't be the issue for you if you have SF T1 gear.  It has been a while since I did that instance, but if memory serves I believe there was a power drain effect, an arcane you have to cure quickly, and a script where you had to run to a rune when El'Arad gets to 60% or so, and have three toons click a glowing rune to activate a shield for the group.  If you didn't get three clicks from three players on the glowing rune, and everyone within the protection radius of the rune in time, there is a ton of focus damage unleashed (which bypasses wards.)

The group should save their big attacks until after the first rune is clicked.  You should also wait until after the first rune is clicked to use Spirit Tap.  DPS does matter on that fight, especially with Spirit Tap.

You might want to recheck the parse and see if "focus damage" was killing your group.  If so, your group most likely were not protected by the rune.  Oh, and Druids heal much better than Shamans when solo healing AEs.  Especially with the changes they made to itemization and crit bonus.  (i.e. Shaman's only get to use 50% of crit bonus stats for wards.)

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Old 11-30-2010, 08:42 PM   #3
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I'm aware of the scripting of the fight, Clicking the rune wasnt the problem, The aoe i'm refering to was elemental damage and i'm about 90% sure it ignored my ST and Group ward. It came shortly after the "shield" went down.

The Effect that must be blocked from the shield is called particle annihilation. The effect that is killing my group is called Feed back of Theer.  ACT logs show Many many hits from that effect and none of them were absorbed by wards except for the extremely (1 of every 30 or so) odd fluke. Inspection of the fluke points towards ACT reporting error and not the actually effect being warded.

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Old 12-01-2010, 12:14 PM   #4
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Try holding Spirit Tap for that effect . . .

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Old 12-01-2010, 01:35 PM   #5
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I could probally heal through it once with spirit tap and once with Ancestral channeling...but past that group is dead. Thats the problem unless group is burning him down before the second or 3rd shield I cant heal the fight.

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Old 12-01-2010, 02:26 PM   #6
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If this fight is taking longer than 90 seconds you're going to struggle, period.

I know, DPS checks suck, but honestly this is one.

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Old 12-01-2010, 02:33 PM   #7
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I dont see this as a dps check, this is to me a broken mechanic. A druid for example could heal that fight indefinately. Mystics can not because someone decided the dot should ignore Our primary method of healing.

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Old 12-01-2010, 05:19 PM   #8
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It's not ignoring your Wards, it's following the Ward mechanics.

Think of a Ward like a layer of skin.  You cast your Ward and it sits on a given target much like a layer of skin.  Anything applied on top of that layer must first get thru the skin before it damages the target.  With me so far?

Now, a DoT effect is ALSO like a layer of skin, albiet a toxic one.  When the DoT is applied, it gets applied on top of whatever Wards you have, and so the DoT starts ticking and eating up the Wards it sits on top of.

Once the DoT is applied, any Wards applied thereafter sit on top of the "toxic" layer, thus, they cannot absorb damage.  You have to cure the DoT or it keeps ticking off health.

Now, in your case, the DoT isn't cureable.  So, you can keep casting Wards all you like, but your Wards are laying on top of the DoT effect, unable to absorb damage because of where they sit.

This also helps explain why you'll sometimes see proc'ed Wards absorb.  If those proc'ed Wards are the regenerating kind, namely Ancient Invigoration / Hateshield / whatever . . . then they will be sitting below the DoT's until they are refreshed by another proc, or expire.

I've solo healed that fight.  I know it's possible.  But it cannot go to an extended duration, or you WILL lose.

Yes, Druids have an advantage here.  Druids have *always* been without peer when it comes to healing non-fatal, massive groupwide damage.  That's what they do well.

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Old 12-02-2010, 01:02 AM   #9
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Raz_wolf wrote:

I dont see this as a dps check, this is to me a broken mechanic. A druid for example could heal that fight indefinately. Mystics can not because someone decided the dot should ignore Our primary method of healing.

broken mechanic? Mystics have been clearing this with ease for months (nearly a year). The real problem here is you. Don't blame your lack of skill on mechanics that are not broken in the least.

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Old 12-02-2010, 07:27 PM   #10
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This encounter ignores our wards, as does relic damage in gears and a few other things, it makes it much much harder to heal as a mystic. Unless you are in a top raiding guild, like some posters, who won't be able to empathise with anyone not having their level of gear.

At the start of the expac I'd solo heal this by carefully spacing out use of various abilities to get by like ancestral channeling and spirit tap and so on. Also you could consider having a few direct heal proc items in your bags specifically for this fight to help you out a little.

There aren't that many times druids especially wardens have a real edge on us, but this encounter for e.g. is one of them, console yourself that well played mystics really shine in lots of other places.

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Old 12-02-2010, 10:33 PM   #11
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snowline wrote:

There aren't that many times druids especially wardens have a real edge on us, but this encounter for e.g. is one of them, console yourself that well played mystics really shine in lots of other places.

this is exactly why complaining about something not working the way you want is absurd. It's the equivalent of complaining that the Arcane ward a templar has is not fair because it absorbs arcane and our equivalent only absorbs noxious. If you really think a Warden is that much more amazing, then go play it.

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Old 12-03-2010, 07:33 AM   #12
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Raz_wolf wrote:

I subscribe to the different but equal theory when it comes to priests classes. I acknowledge some classes heal groups better than others. But i dont understand is shamans are built around the entire concept of warding/preventing damage. And they they start to add in damage sources that shatter that. (Lifeburn also irks me, but is atleast do-able)

I am playing both. Warden is main, short followed by the mystic.

There is always an encounter that is hard for the one or other healer. For a while those knock-ups with following AE have been used by the devs. Those have been wardens nightmare and the mystic just laughed about them. A ticking ward wards, even when the whole group is in the air. But the warden cant cast while knocked up.

Before they added AA to have a heal after a ward runs out, those warding gaps have been a pita to the mystic and the warden just laughed about such.

There is always a scary encounter... for every class SMILEY

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Old 12-06-2010, 05:19 PM   #13
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This fight is definitely solo healable. The elemental needs to be cured asap. Not this fight but one in ZUA actually made me macro spare mouse buttons to my group cure so as soon as I see the det I can just hit an button with my thumb no hand movement at all. Its is a dps check fight, yes maybe the dps is more important for us but I have solo healed the fight and used Spirit tap to heal through the curse from a screwed up click and still kill the mob
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Old 12-07-2010, 02:02 PM   #14
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I'm almost postive the dot is uncurable...Why does everyoen keep telling me to cure it.

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Old 12-12-2010, 11:58 AM   #15
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I have yet to get something I can't cure on the fight (unless the curse hits). Maybe it comes from the add that needs to be killed asap and ur group has it standing to long? I only ask because I do not remember anything hitting that I could not heal through solo even before I got geared out. A harder fight for me was actually the one with Praun than this one.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:37 AM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:

Raz_wolf wrote:

I dont see this as a dps check, this is to me a broken mechanic. A druid for example could heal that fight indefinately. Mystics can not because someone decided the dot should ignore Our primary method of healing.

broken mechanic? Mystics have been clearing this with ease for months (nearly a year). The real problem here is you. Don't blame your lack of skill on mechanics that are not broken in the least.

Amusing to see an Eq2flame jerk coming here. He is the kind of persorn that make me ashame to be a human being and to share 99.99% of his DNA.

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Old 07-27-2011, 01:08 PM   #17
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i've been on official just as long as i have flames. and you should be ashamed of yourself for passing judgment on others. get off your high horse.
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