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Old 10-05-2011, 05:39 PM   #31
EvilAstroboy

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[email protected] wrote:

Raahl wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Raahl wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Oh my god, there 500 HPS healing/Wards are going to be 1400 HPS after they Heal Crit, the world is ending!

Meanwhile your stoneskins and avoidance is preventing over 5000-7000 on the damage reduction parse.

Maybe the simple fix is to nerf stoneskins and avoidance, Stoneskins should only reduce damage by 50% instead of 100%, Avoidance should be changed to glancing blow and prevent 1-99% damage (its a random roll).

And there it is.   The Nerfbat is always ready to swing.

You DO realise that healing doesn't prevent those devastating MAs/Flurrys like Stoneskins/Avoidance does?  Or did that NOT cross your mind once?

Sure, so lets fix (nerf) that.

Tal,  If your blowing your stone skins on ma/flurries your using them wrong anyhow.  Stone skins are to be saved for the massive scripted AOES.  Healers, avoidance transfers, mitigation, shields, defensive abilities etc are to be used for the damage from the MA/flurries.  Screaming nerf, nerf, nerf, is not going to get you your heals back.  Its going to alienate the tanking community away from you.

Im not really in the business of backing up Tal. But if you read above he was just venting at the Guards who were putting their nose in where it wasnt wanted. Showing them what the alternative is if they dont fix Crusader and Zerker heals - nerf bats to brawlers and guards. 

Its currently balanced well in the favour of avoidance / stoneskin tanks like brawlers and guards. Crusader and zerker survivability is terrible this expansion. Something needs to be done. Although I dont agree that it should be in the form of self healing, because that has always been terrible on any content that mattered. It was just a solo farming tool really.

Obviously the strikethrough issue needs to be sorted. And all tanks need access to the same quality / number of death saves and damage blocks.

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Old 10-05-2011, 05:49 PM   #32
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Banditman wrote:

If the issue is PvP, by all means, adjust it in BG's or w/e.  I always suspected that was the root of that overblown change anyway. 

The issue was not pvp - we have seperate values for spells/ca for pvp that can be adjusted independently of pve.  Fighters were topping the heal parses in heroic zones trivializing the content in a manner that was not foreseen or meant to be.  Fighters should not be topping heal parses.  Healers should be topping heal parses.  Fighters should be mitigating damage and focusing the mobs attention away from the dps, heals, and utility.  Fighters should have various tools to deal with the scripted raid aoes - some fighters currently need tweaking in these respects and not in healing abilities.

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Old 10-05-2011, 06:08 PM   #33
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I would love to see it come back and I hope someday the wizzes on this board (or maybe even at SOE) can figure out how to do it. 

There is no such thing as separate but equal and it's depgressing to see tiny heal numbers when the game has been glorifying crit and crit bonus ad naseum.  Everybody else gets to revel in crit-land but my Pally has a scarlet letter on all of his heal abilities.  All my other toons get to smile as they read their huge crit bonus number and know it makes them better in every way.  Except my Paladin.  He's separate but equal.  It's just so satisfying!  Except it's not.

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Old 10-05-2011, 07:56 PM   #34
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Vlahkm[email protected] wrote:

Banditman wrote:

If the issue is PvP, by all means, adjust it in BG's or w/e.  I always suspected that was the root of that overblown change anyway. 

The issue was not pvp - we have seperate values for spells/ca for pvp that can be adjusted independently of pve.  Fighters were topping the heal parses in heroic zones trivializing the content in a manner that was not foreseen or meant to be.  Fighters should not be topping heal parses.  Healers should be topping heal parses.  Fighters should be mitigating damage and focusing the mobs attention away from the dps, heals, and utility.  Fighters should have various tools to deal with the scripted raid aoes - some fighters currently need tweaking in these respects and not in healing abilities.

The heal parse was because of items that warded the target and having tons of mobs hitting the tank.

The content now and for awile now will all be favored to one mob hitting the tank VERY VERY hard.

Alot of heals for SK/Berserker are magnified greatly by how many mobs are attacking you.

But now you see parses like Tanks healing for 500 HPS and healers healing for 25k+.

Healing crits if you added them back would hardly be unbalanced.

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Old 10-06-2011, 04:08 AM   #35
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Honest answer ?

Either make anything crit per default or go back to where a crit was the exception. Triple digit crits plus crit bonus was and is a cheap way to move the whole class abilities to itemization. It was step one of the masterplan to replace content with items. Step two was to make BIG numbers SMILEY

Balance is always a problem, but as long as armor defines classes there never will be balance. Regarding a tank his armor should offer mitigation (and maybe the traditional HP and STR and maybe resistance boost). Everything else should be written on his CA's and abilities.

The occasional crit was nice and brought some dynamics into the game. Especially if a wizzy had one SMILEY But now its cold numbers on items, while my char is useless nacked.

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Old 10-06-2011, 09:46 AM   #36
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Im not really in the business of backing up Tal. But if you read above he was just venting at the Guards who were putting their nose in where it wasnt wanted. Showing them what the alternative is if they dont fix Crusader and Zerker heals - nerf bats to brawlers and guards. 

LOL!  My nose goes where it must.  Wanted or not. 

I usually am on the side of fixing classes vs. nerfing them.  Sony only seems to know how to nerf classes, or maybe it's only the ones I play.  I was frustrated and needed to vent.

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Old 10-06-2011, 11:13 PM   #37
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Raahl wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

Im not really in the business of backing up Tal. But if you read above he was just venting at the Guards who were putting their nose in where it wasnt wanted. Showing them what the alternative is if they dont fix Crusader and Zerker heals - nerf bats to brawlers and guards. 

LOL!  My nose goes where it must.  Wanted or not. 

I usually am on the side of fixing classes vs. nerfing them.  Sony only seems to know how to nerf classes, or maybe it's only the ones I play.  I was frustrated and needed to vent.

Us guards had our noses pushed into the dirt for quite some time.  We are in agreement other fighters need to be looked at to do their primary job of tanking effectivelly.  Fighters do not need critical heals to do there primary job of tanking. 

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Old 10-07-2011, 12:29 AM   #38
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[email protected] wrote:

Raahl wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

Im not really in the business of backing up Tal. But if you read above he was just venting at the Guards who were putting their nose in where it wasnt wanted. Showing them what the alternative is if they dont fix Crusader and Zerker heals - nerf bats to brawlers and guards. 

LOL!  My nose goes where it must.  Wanted or not. 

I usually am on the side of fixing classes vs. nerfing them.  Sony only seems to know how to nerf classes, or maybe it's only the ones I play.  I was frustrated and needed to vent.

Us guards had our noses pushed into the dirt for quite some time.  We are in agreement other fighters need to be looked at to do their primary job of tanking effectivelly.  Fighters do not need critical heals to do there primary job of tanking. 

Then, Pray tell, tell me what we need to Survive?

What easier way would make my class work better as a Berserker/SK/Paladin then not allowing my heals/wards to critical properly?

Adding Stoneskins? - Guardians would complain, thats there area.

Adding Avoidance? - Brawlers would complain, thats there area.

Amuse me.

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Old 10-07-2011, 10:00 AM   #39
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Raahl wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

Im not really in the business of backing up Tal. But if you read above he was just venting at the Guards who were putting their nose in where it wasnt wanted. Showing them what the alternative is if they dont fix Crusader and Zerker heals - nerf bats to brawlers and guards. 

LOL!  My nose goes where it must.  Wanted or not. 

I usually am on the side of fixing classes vs. nerfing them.  Sony only seems to know how to nerf classes, or maybe it's only the ones I play.  I was frustrated and needed to vent.

Us guards had our noses pushed into the dirt for quite some time.  We are in agreement other fighters need to be looked at to do their primary job of tanking effectivelly.  Fighters do not need critical heals to do there primary job of tanking. 

Then, Pray tell, tell me what we need to Survive?

What easier way would make my class work better as a Berserker/SK/Paladin then not allowing my heals/wards to critical properly?

Adding Stoneskins? - Guardians would complain, thats there area.

Adding Avoidance? - Brawlers would complain, thats there area.

Amuse me.

The Shadowknights/Paladins that have raid MT'd in raid I've been in have been surviving just fine.

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Old 10-07-2011, 11:58 AM   #40
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First of all....it's really not needed for raid/group or easy solo content.  I have not noticed a significant loss of survivability on my SK. 

However, in the case of crusaders, they were built around the idea that their heals and life taps were designed to help with damage mitigation.  Warriors mitigated through higher mitigation and stone skins where crusaders mitigated through lower mitigation and heals. 

Heals were always weaker than stoneskins and were never very effective in a grouping/raiding environment when the healer was on the ball.  A combination of lower mitigation and nerfed heal crits theoretically should have affected crusaders more than it did, but since heals never helped when the healer was on the ball, it is not noticed in grouping and raiding content.  Nerfing the heals crits removes crusader's ability to mitigate damage, where nothing is removed from the warrior. 

Zerkers throw a wrench into it because the whole zerker healing thing is relatively new in the life of the game.  In fact, fighters crit healing never was even an issue until suddenly zerkers were putting up massive heal numbers from some ability- and that may have come from the critical merge that happened in SF.  Prior to SF, Crusaders could easily get 100% heal crit, but no one seemed to care.

Normally, I am supportive of zerkers, however in this case, I blame them for the loss of my heal crits, which I do notice while soloing. 

All that being said, I don't expect to ever see crit healing again on fighters.  I do believe though in order to make the heals useful going forward, all fighter heals need to be percentage based, thereby scaling with the hp of the fighters.  I am only talking PVE.  I don't care about PVP.

*editted cause I started talking gibberish

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Old 10-07-2011, 12:07 PM   #41
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Really?  Your mitigation is less than a similarly equipped Guardian.  Show your equipment and what your mitigation is self buffed.

I suspect we will find your mitigation is not that far from that of a Guardian.  I could be wrong here, lets see.

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Old 10-07-2011, 12:14 PM   #42
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LoL, I like how you picked that line out.  ok, when I'm not supposed to be working, I will....how many temp mit buffs do you have?

My real point, though I took a while to get to it was that fighter heals should all be percentage based.  I am not trying to pick a fight with guardians and I am not asking for any changes to guardians.

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Old 10-07-2011, 12:16 PM   #43
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gatrm wrote:

LoL, I like how you picked that line out.  ok, when I'm not supposed to be working, I will....how many temp mit buffs do you have?

My real point, though I took a while to get to it was that fighter heals should all be percentage based.  I am not trying to pick a fight with guardians and I am not asking for any changes to guardians.

I took it as you were trying to justify it because your mit is lower than the guardians, enough to cause survivability issues.

If I misunderstood, my bad.

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Old 10-07-2011, 12:28 PM   #44
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Raahl wrote:

Really?  Your mitigation is less than a similarly equipped Guardian.  Show your equipment and what your mitigation is self buffed.

I suspect we will find your mitigation is not that far from that of a Guardian.  I could be wrong here, lets see.

Not far from the truth, SKs have a little bit "more" mitigation then a guardian, but its so little extra it hardly matters.

Read this carefully Everyone, this is from my point of view as a berserker:

In SF there were fights with hundreds of mobs attacking the tank, Each time a berserker is damaged with "battle frenzy" (5 minute recast), he heals for 10% PERCENT (+critical) of his health.

Basicly making the berserker invincible against that kind of attack.

Healers decided this wasn't fair, linking heal parses everywhere where they showed berserkers using battle frenzy + stonewill gear, topping healing parses. (well of course they are topping the parse, remember Cella fights?)

This even effected PVP, instead of chosing to debuff the ability like your suppost to, people would cry and cry until it got its nerf, now the ability is a 4% with 15 triggers, basicly making it a 60% heal on a 5 minute recast (compared to Brawlers 100% heal on a 45 second recast), pretty much making the ability useless in Player versus Player combat.

The ability in DoV will not save you, its usefulness on Non-Gank fights showed, in SF all the hard heroics and raids used lots of mobs to attack the tank at once, while in this expansion, its basicly 1 mob, he hits 100x harder and slower WITH Co-op strike, and giving mobs more multi-attack and flurry.  These mechanics greatly punish abilitys such as battle frenzy and other smaller heals berserker had that relied on getting hit.

- 1 Mob instead of hundreds (SF-DoV)

- Hitting Slower, Hitting Harder (SF-DoV)

- Co-Op Strike (SF-DoV)

- Mobs Multi-Attacking and Flurrying.

All these things combined made the abilitys berserkers had in SF pretty much diminished to very low to little help, the abilitys that were parsing 4000 are parsing 300, i'm just not getting hit as often as I was.

Meditative Healing (a Monk ability) heals just as much as battle frenzy in DoV.

If a Monk takes over a certain percent of HP, he heals for 15% (as much as battle frenzy).

This ability is up forever, and since mobs always hit over that percent of HP, its always healing him, and unlike Battle Frenzy, it lasts forever, its ALWAYS up.

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Old 10-07-2011, 12:39 PM   #45
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Funny to see the other tanks balling so hard & raging @ us brawlers when we have been underpowered since launch when it came to tanking raid content.

On topic though, every fighter out there asking for crit heals knows the only want it to solo better. With how hard mobs are hitting right now (especially hm mobs) a crit heal is not going to improve your survivability.

(Still laughing at how crusaders went from completely OP to mediocre the day DoV launched.)

I feel for you Talathion, SoE has never really given much love to zerkers. They should have kept them in chain armor as a DPS class.

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Old 10-07-2011, 12:46 PM   #46
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V-I-I-I-X-I-I-V wrote:

Funny to see the other tanks balling so hard & raging @ us brawlers when we have been underpowered since launch when it came to tanking raid content.

On topic though, every fighter out there asking for crit heals knows the only want it to solo better. With how hard mobs are hitting right now (especially hm mobs) a crit heal is not going to improve your survivability.

(Still laughing at how crusaders went from completely OP to mediocre the day DoV launched.)

I feel for you Talathion, SoE has never really given much love to zerkers. They should have kept them in chain armor as a DPS class.

Yep, but soloing isn't my concern, I don't take damage in solo content. (much less needing to heal.)

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Old 10-07-2011, 01:49 PM   #47
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Once upon a time, long ago in the age of Sentinel's Fate, when we walked uphill both ways because we had no flying mounts, when men were men and women were men pretending to be elves talking dirty to each other in hotel rooms....

The developers looked out over all the classes in the land and said, "Harken, for we shall give unto thee a new class ability that thee may further differentiate thineselves from thy compatriates. Thou thee thine thus etc.

"To the warlock, who we love best because thy class is badass, we give you this awesome new proc spell that thee shall be righteously metal in all of your destructiveness."

And it was good. And they continued onwards, until...

"To the guardian, who we have decreed shall excel at taking large single target hits to the face due to thine love of paint chips as childes, we give this neat stoneskin thing. Have fun and stuff.

"Lastly, to the noble berserker, who excels at gathering huge mobs and slaying them all with great relish, we give thee this ability that heals you muchly when you are taking many low damage hits but is not quite as good for spike damage."

And it was still good! Until lo, on the horizon, entered the angry priests. You see, stat consolidation had given their classes the ability to do more DPS than ever before, and they were hungry for power. Not content merely to smash things in the face while healing and buffing and still being indispensible for doing almost anything, they also wanted to have the highest green numbers all the time.

"But my friends," said the berserker, ever loyal and unsuspecting of betrayal, "my friends! Do you not see that this healing supremacy is only against trivial content with large numbers of mobs, and only in thirty second bursts? Are we not all on the same teame here?"

Alas, the whining was great, and Sony of Online decreed that henceforth, all fighters shall be given stoneskins and death prevents to make balance more easily acquired, paving the way for the day when they all could be merged into one class known as FIGHTER who would seeke to maximize FIGHTER STAT. The berserker, of course, would still be required to keep a random proc up for their defensive skills and have massive power drains and negative drawbacks attached to everything, lest their innate awesomeness allow them to rise above the homogenization. But that is a story for another day.

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Old 10-07-2011, 02:37 PM   #48
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Good story Sage!  LOL. 

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Old 10-07-2011, 02:56 PM   #49
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Banditman wrote:

If the issue is PvP, by all means, adjust it in BG's or w/e.  I always suspected that was the root of that overblown change anyway. 

No, it was heroic content too.

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Old 10-07-2011, 06:14 PM   #50
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Raahl wrote:

Really?  Your mitigation is less than a similarly equipped Guardian.  Show your equipment and what your mitigation is self buffed.

I suspect we will find your mitigation is not that far from that of a Guardian.  I could be wrong here, lets see.

Not far from the truth, SKs have a little bit "more" mitigation then a guardian, but its so little extra it hardly matters.

Read this carefully Everyone, this is from my point of view as a berserker:

In SF there were fights with hundreds of mobs attacking the tank, Each time a berserker is damaged with "battle frenzy" (5 minute recast), he heals for 10% PERCENT (+critical) of his health.

Basicly making the berserker invincible against that kind of attack.

Healers decided this wasn't fair, linking heal parses everywhere where they showed berserkers using battle frenzy + stonewill gear, topping healing parses. (well of course they are topping the parse, remember Cella fights?)

This even effected PVP, instead of chosing to debuff the ability like your suppost to, people would cry and cry until it got its nerf, now the ability is a 4% with 15 triggers, basicly making it a 60% heal on a 5 minute recast (compared to Brawlers 100% heal on a 45 second recast), pretty much making the ability useless in Player versus Player combat.

The ability in DoV will not save you, its usefulness on Non-Gank fights showed, in SF all the hard heroics and raids used lots of mobs to attack the tank at once, while in this expansion, its basicly 1 mob, he hits 100x harder and slower WITH Co-op strike, and giving mobs more multi-attack and flurry.  These mechanics greatly punish abilitys such as battle frenzy and other smaller heals berserker had that relied on getting hit.

- 1 Mob instead of hundreds (SF-DoV)

- Hitting Slower, Hitting Harder (SF-DoV)

- Co-Op Strike (SF-DoV)

- Mobs Multi-Attacking and Flurrying.

All these things combined made the abilitys berserkers had in SF pretty much diminished to very low to little help, the abilitys that were parsing 4000 are parsing 300, i'm just not getting hit as often as I was.

Meditative Healing (a Monk ability) heals just as much as battle frenzy in DoV.

If a Monk takes over a certain percent of HP, he heals for 15% (as much as battle frenzy).

This ability is up forever, and since mobs always hit over that percent of HP, its always healing him, and unlike Battle Frenzy, it lasts forever, its ALWAYS up.

Medatative Mending doesnt heal for sh..... , even in raids. Zerkers and Knights need something to offset AE's and script BS thats why brawlers survive we have tools for the current screwed up game mechanics.

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Old 10-07-2011, 06:16 PM   #51
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[email protected] wrote:

Medatative Mending doesnt heal for sh..... , even in raids. Zerkers and Knights need something to offset AE's and script BS thats why brawlers survive we have tools for the current screwed up game mechanics.

For sure, but critical healing is hardly the answer to that issue.

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Old 10-07-2011, 09:53 PM   #52
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Is anyone in disagreement that Palains need another stone skin?  As a guardain I don't care if other tanks have stone skins too.  What I would care about is if they had 3 reliable stone skins like I do and maintain their current DPS/utility ability.  When I want to have fun on AoE content or run pugs I log to my pally and play him.  When I want to MT I play my guard.  When I want to farm or pug tank I play my bruiser too.   Both of these tanks out dps my guard.  Thats what they are designed for.

Guardians have come along way over getting the RoK nerf beat down and are back to where they should be.  SK survivability seems to need some tweaking after their unholy rise to megastardom (after a long period of neglect I might add).  One of my OTs is a SK and seems to take more spike damage than I have seen them take in past xpacs.  Not is disagreement here that SKs could be looked into some.  They get a healthy % block from AA's maybe they do need a defense boost too.  Not ruling it out.  Those things are required for raid tanking.   Crit heals are not.

You want to trade off some DPS so you can stay in and not have to joust most AOES and be like a guardain then ask for that but be prepared to loose something in the process.  

I currently do not have the time to play an active zerker still in addition to my other tanks but it would seem to me they need reliable hate generation and a zerker flavored stone skin ability in addition to the one they can spec into on the heroic line.  Yes I know Partisian Cleave is more fun, I have it on my aoe spec too, but the stone skin is more relevant for AOE survival if your wanting a MT spot.   There are some decent posts in the zerker forums regarding what they need to MT and it does not seem the long time zerkers are requesting crit heals as a main reason the zerker is not currently sought after for MT postions this xpac. 

If the "tank balance" concept is to make all tanks viable MTs and OTs then more work needs to be done so we generally all feel we are within acceptable levels of DPS (direct hate generation) vs survivability (mitigation, block, avoidance, aoe prevents) vs utility (grp buffs/cures/heals/ passive hate generations etc)  in the MT/OT and heroic content. 

We are all generally equally good at heroic content now.  Zerkers need some love in the MT spot.

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Old 10-08-2011, 02:53 PM   #53
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Guardians have the most utility out of all the Fighters in this game.  And as for DPS all Fighter DPS blows and the gap between them is not very large at all.

Just saying.

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Old 10-08-2011, 06:50 PM   #54
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Bruener wrote:

Guardians have the most utility out of all the Fighters in this game.  And as for DPS all Fighter DPS blows and the gap between them is not very large at all.

Just saying.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478444

Last year you said guards needed more utility.  Excepting the passive hate transfer buff what else have we been given to substantiate you now claiming we have to much?    Fighters should not be topping or near the top of any parse IMO that is not our primary design.  Our primary design is to get and hold aggro and take a beating thats why fighters are meat shields and assassins are DPS classes. 

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Old 10-08-2011, 07:12 PM   #55
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Don't mean to interrupt, but this threads about healing, not about whos better then what.

Fighter wards/heals are cut in 1/2, 1/3 of what healers get from potency/crit bonus, so even if we did critical heal, they would be nowhere near, not even 1/4 of what a true healer can heal, especially with the new healing procs like deathless devotion, which still somehow is able to critical.

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Old 10-08-2011, 09:10 PM   #56
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[email protected] wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Guardians have the most utility out of all the Fighters in this game.  And as for DPS all Fighter DPS blows and the gap between them is not very large at all.

Just saying.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=478444

Last year you said guards needed more utility.  Excepting the passive hate transfer buff what else have we been given to substantiate you now claiming we have to much?    Fighters should not be topping or near the top of any parse IMO that is not our primary design.  Our primary design is to get and hold aggro and take a beating thats why fighters are meat shields and assassins are DPS classes. 

Yes I did say that.  And that got much utility with a lot of abilities changed/tweaked to add specifically a lot of survivability utility.  Thanks for pointing out my post where I argued for Defensive utility and increased agro while a bunch of people just wanted more DPS.

I did not in my post above say that they had too much utility either.  I just responded to a post that claimed that Guards needed yet more utility which is false.  I also stated that the DPS difference is not that much and when you consider where Fighter DPS falls on a parse anyway it is a dumb argument.

The problem with your "vision" on what Fighters should be doing is that is basically the job of 1 Fighter 90% of the time.  The other Fighters for that time it is their job to DPS.  That is all they are doing.  Also, by design some Fighters were designed to rely on DPS more than others for AGRO.  And this post and all the other posts anyway in relation to Fighters point out the huge discrepency in how each of those Fighters can hold agro and take a beating.  3 win.  3 lose.

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Old 10-10-2011, 12:15 PM   #57
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

The heal parse was because of items that warded the target and having tons of mobs hitting the tank.

The content now and for awile now will all be favored to one mob hitting the tank VERY VERY hard.

Alot of heals for SK/Berserker are magnified greatly by how many mobs are attacking you.

But now you see parses like Tanks healing for 500 HPS and healers healing for 25k+.

Healing crits if you added them back would hardly be unbalanced.

Was in a Group on one of my alts with a Quest/PQ geared Berserker who had ZERO ward proc items. On one single fight he had 1800 HPS. I know becasue I was shocked by his heal parse and I checked his gear.

That is in DOV, level 90.

While the ward proc things are a help to heal parse, Crusaders and Berserkers healed to much and something had to be done...

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Old 10-10-2011, 12:25 PM   #58
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Im not really in the business of backing up Tal. But if you read above he was just venting at the Guards who were putting their nose in where it wasnt wanted. Showing them what the alternative is if they dont fix Crusader and Zerker heals - nerf bats to brawlers and guards. 

Its currently balanced well in the favour of avoidance / stoneskin tanks like brawlers and guards. Crusader and zerker survivability is terrible this expansion. Something needs to be done. Although I dont agree that it should be in the form of self healing, because that has always been terrible on any content that mattered. It was just a solo farming tool really.

Obviously the strikethrough issue needs to be sorted. And all tanks need access to the same quality / number of death saves and damage blocks.

Berserkers have stoneskins. They just want to use them so they can DW in Offensive. The people I raid with use a Berserker to stoneskin the rituals when a Guardian is not available.

People just need to userstand that they aren't babies playing with themselves. They are in a MMO and the game must be fair for all classes. Just becasue they WANT to have massive DPS, and WANT to heal themselves and WANT to be the best raid tank doesn't mean they get it all.

Children think that way.

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Old 10-10-2011, 02:10 PM   #59
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Wasuna wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

Im not really in the business of backing up Tal. But if you read above he was just venting at the Guards who were putting their nose in where it wasnt wanted. Showing them what the alternative is if they dont fix Crusader and Zerker heals - nerf bats to brawlers and guards. 

Its currently balanced well in the favour of avoidance / stoneskin tanks like brawlers and guards. Crusader and zerker survivability is terrible this expansion. Something needs to be done. Although I dont agree that it should be in the form of self healing, because that has always been terrible on any content that mattered. It was just a solo farming tool really.

Obviously the strikethrough issue needs to be sorted. And all tanks need access to the same quality / number of death saves and damage blocks.

Berserkers have stoneskins. They just want to use them so they can DW in Offensive. The people I raid with use a Berserker to stoneskin the rituals when a Guardian is not available.

People just need to userstand that they aren't babies playing with themselves. They are in a MMO and the game must be fair for all classes. Just becasue they WANT to have massive DPS, and WANT to heal themselves and WANT to be the best raid tank doesn't mean they get it all.

Children think that way.

The stupid heal parse takes adrenaline into account, which it shouldn't.

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Old 10-10-2011, 02:23 PM   #60
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

The stupid heal parse takes adrenaline into account, which it shouldn't.

Does Adrenaline put HP back?

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