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Old 03-18-2008, 11:36 AM   #1
Avirodar
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Greetings Inquisitors.

Contained in the Inquisitor section of the eq2flames forums is a post created by the player Stoic, pushing the idea for the Inquisitor Mythical weapon to be revamped. The reason a revamp is called for, is that the weapon proves to be very ineffective in high end/difficult encounters, and underpowered when compared to about every other epic weapon in the game, when relating to both DPS capacity and effectiveness of use.

Stoics post: http://www.eq2flames.com/inquisitor...hical-epic.html

In Stoics thread, you will see a number of pieces of constructive input and ideas from numerous high end raiding Inquisitors, with wide spans of concepts and possibilities.

Contained within Stoic's thread, is one post made by the Inquisitor of NPU, Hellzar, after communication and idea-sharing with a number of Inquisitors world wide (myself being one of them). Hellzar's idea was well thought out, and constructed over a period of weeks,  and the full proposition hosted on an external/independant website, the link being:

Hellzar's Inq revamp propsal : http://www.dofguild.com/penitent.html    <---- READ THIS POST

Inside Hellzar's post, explanations of Inquisitor playstyle and our Mythicals effectiveness in high end combat is addressed. A proposal that is well within reason (still not as powerful as some epics) is made. We tried our best to keep the proposition well within reasonable boundaries in hope that it would increase the chances of improvement. Being seen as asking for "too much" would prove no benefit.

I encourage anyone who plays a level 80 Inquisitor, to read Hellzar's proposal and give feedback/input. Especially if you are in a raid guild that is capable of clearing mobs in Veeshan's Peak (and gain the Mythical weapon).

I also want to encourage any staff members of SoE to read Hellzar's post, and give reasonable consideration the ideas made by players who spend countless hours playing the Inquisitor class. Stating it as honestly as I can, I believe the Inquisitor mythical had some good intentions behind it, in theory, but when it comes to actual ingame use, it is severely lacking. It would be a grand guesture to the Inquisitor community to show some much needed love.

And with that, such it is.

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Old 03-18-2008, 11:38 AM   #2
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PS:  Hellzar, you nublet!! Fix the broken picture links for the graphs SMILEY
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:38 PM   #3
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Currently my guild is in VP but is flagging more members.  We are no where close to clearing VP but from the options given in http://www.dofguild.com/penitent.html this is what I would like to see.  I currently only have the fabled version, so I can't test our mythical one.  But in Pawbuster Penitent Smite was a lot more trouble than it was worth.

Absolution

Option 3.

DAMAGE 1-1187 DELAY 10.0 seconds

Aftershock

Option 3: All direct heal spells cast have a 50% chance to recast at half effectiveness 1.5 seconds later.  One thing I like to add is make it usable in T9.  Currently this effect is useless.

Penitent Smite

Option 1: When target casts a beneficial spell, this spell has a 12% chance to cast Penitent Smite. Makes group members (AE) immune to Stifle, Stun and Daze effects. Inflicts 400-600 divine damage on a target in area of effect. Lasts for 12 seconds.

OR

Option 2: When target casts a beneficial spell, this spell has a 12% chance to cast Penitent Smite. Group members (AE): Increase critical hit rate by 15% (ranged/melee). Increase double attack rate by 15% of melee attacks and 8% of ranged attacks. Inflicts 400-600 divine damage on a target in area of effect. Lasts for 12 seconds.

OR

Option 5: When equipped makes Tenacity a group wide ability adding additional DPS, Criticial Hits and Double Attack (+20 DPS, +10% Critical hits, +10% Double Attack - melee and ranged - while this may seem powerful, the Templar gives haste and a lot of defence abilites that benefit the entire group, both the Main Tank and a Shield Ally specced Templar will increase the tanks avoidance.  

Penitent Protection.

Option 1: Applies Penitent Wrath when activated. Lasts for 30 seconds. Increases haste and dps of group members by 50. Increases crit and double attack of group members by 40%. Reuse 5 minutes.

OR

Option 7: Applies Fanatical Stance when activated. Lasts until cancelled. Prevents the Inquisitor from taking any hostile action. Caster is immune to ALL area of effect abilities. Reuse 10 minutes. (Taken from Uilamin's post on eq2flames)

However this seems like a brigand's Amazing Reflexes before it was nerfed to the useless ability it is today and even though our weapon is mythical.  I just get the feeling that SoE will do the same to our weapon. 

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Old 03-18-2008, 10:10 PM   #4
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it's sad to see the community put so much hard work and thought into this when this will go without any official response and be ignored. 5% chance this idea may cross someone who cares desk at SOE in a year or two.
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:47 PM   #5
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IMO, any changes listed in this post/these links would be welcome. And I would love to even see a dev post in this thread simply saying that it was read, and our concerns where noted. But at this point, i'm not holding out much hope.
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:53 AM   #6
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I most like the preference stated by Hellzar in the post...

Weapon damage. "DAMAGE: 40-554 DELAY: 5.0 seconds"    A 10 second delay is just too slow... 5s is good.

Penitent Smite, option #5 : "When equipped makes Tenacity a group wide ability adding additional DPS, Criticial Hits and Double Attack (+20 DPS, +10% Critical hits, +10% Double Attack - melee and ranged"

Penitent Protection, option #1 : "Modifies the Inquisition ability to be cast on a single raid member instead of a hostile mob."

And for the heal (Aftershock), option #3 : "All direct heal spells cast have a 50% chance to recast at half effectiveness 1.5 seconds later"

More detailed summaries/explanations/details are in Hellzar's post. As stated, upon comparisons to some other epics, the proposition was well within reason, more on the side of asking for a little less than would be ideal, in hope that it would increase the chances of success (a fix).

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Old 03-19-2008, 05:31 AM   #7
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1st a repost of what I suggested on eq2flames:While I do not like the 3rd option for the clicky, the options 1, 2, 4, 5 and 6 look nice.About the 7th option, I think in its current form the clicky might even be underpowered:1st we can already get an AE immunity that can be up at least 1/4 of the whole fight. So this would be more of an update to an existing ability then something totally new.1) No AE at all means no group / raid buffs. This alone is very hard!2) No AE at all means no group procs helping out, so no power belt power for us, ...3) Any hostile actions would include auto attack, debuffs and attack spells / combat arts. So all we could do is stand there and cast heals and use the clickies where needed. We would be better of just standing as far away of the mob as possible jousting in to debuff / heal. The only time I could see this being useful is if we are used to trigger clickies / collect ground spawns. But this should normally be done by the DPS and not by healers.4) You can't even mitigate some of these effects by canceling the ability to refresh your debuffs, as you would then be penalized with a 10 minutes recast.Yes I know my proposed version of AE immunity while equipped without drawbacks would be quite powerful, but don't have other mystical ones other effects, that are on the same power level?Here are three suggestions to bring the AE immunity to usefulness:1st:If your version of the AE immunity would be group wide while penalizing in the above mentioned manner it would be like a second Fanatism (The Inquisitor cripples himself to help his group.). That would be a cool effect even with such a long cool down timer.2nd:If the cool down would be 10 to 20 seconds it might be woth it, as you could drop you protection to reapply your debuffs (do some DPS if 20s) and then put the protection up again.3rd:Witch such a long recast the maximum that could be of any use would be immunity to ALL HOSTILE AEs and the removing of the ability to use hostile spells (maybe including combat arts), so that we could at least auto attack to mob. As I think it would not be overpowered to have no drawbacksI would vote to at least allow combat arts while it is up. Even then the raid would lose our debuffs on the mob, which would lead to longer fights and more and harder hits on the MT / harder hitting AEs.---I also thought about wards:But I thought about making Aftershock a short time ward (maybe 5s) starting directly after casting the spell or even the same 2 sec later. The group heal should add a ward to each group member, cause a group ward might be a bit over the top. SMILEYIt would be cool, if the ward would heal the left over amount at termination, but even without this, I think this would be a nice effect, as Aftershock would not be wasted so many times.(Such procs already exist (shelter).  That proc for a 300 Ward of any heal. So it would not be a real unique ability, but at east a useful one. SMILEY )---Now my favored set of abilities:Damage:DAMAGE: 40-554 DELAY: 5.0 secondsAftershock:Shelter like proc: 50% trigger chance for 1/2 heal value. on direct heals.or option #3 (50% chance at half effectiveness 1.5 seconds later)Penitent Smite:Option #1.1: When target casts a beneficial spell, this spell has a 12% chance to cast Penitent Smite. Makes group members (AE) immune to Stifle, Stun, Daze and Fear effects. Inflicts 400-600 divine damage on a target in area of effect. Lasts for 12 seconds.Penitent Protection:You are immune to all hostile AE effects while running Zealotry or any update thereof (e.g. Devotion SMILEY ).
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Old 03-21-2008, 08:57 PM   #8
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There has to be more than the 5 of us who agree that our Mythical could use a little adjustment. Don't think that many people have betrayed to Templars, yet...
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:25 PM   #9
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All I have is the epic right now.  I do like all the suggestions for the mythical. Whether I get it or not is another issue entirely. I'm definitely not a hard core fabled out Inquis but I kind of like the epic. Good heal boost and stat boost and the proc isn't bad.  I was surprised that in a raid the other night I was getting higher DPS with it than my 2-hander.  But, my 2-hander is that staff from EH so that might explain that.  If I were to ever get BoneCrusher it would probably be an entirely different result.
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Old 03-22-2008, 01:23 PM   #10
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Re: Sphinx

The current stifle/daze immunity proc on the mythical, is worthless on any high end encounter. It is an unreliable proc, at best, and the price of failure on the (non existant) encounters it would be beneficial, makes it unfeasible to use for that effect.

As for my DPS, it plummets if I wear my mythical.

Re: Alarick

It is sadly evident that very few of the Inquisitors that raid end game content, actively use these forums. Regardless, I posted the original message here, due to this being the official forums, and in hope that a Developer will read it.

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Old 03-23-2008, 01:40 PM   #11
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I know, i was just posting to vent my frustration, and keep this topic from falling down to the bottom of the forum going largely unnoticed.
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Old 03-23-2008, 02:50 PM   #12
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I agree on pretty much all of the suggestions made on the inquisitor epic. A heavy hitting, slow delay weapon would be great. Possibly even with a proc on heals to increase hit rates of the people in the group. That would make us more combat oriented.
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Old 04-01-2008, 05:22 PM   #13
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Only reason that i can think of why an official sony employee wont acknowlege that work that was put in is simple..  they dont play the class in the game, its the only thing i can think of..  Seriously when have you ever heard a dev brag about his inq..  Anyway back on topic.  my guild is currently almost completely done with myth updates we are on unrest.  Ya i know we get it done eventually..  I dont use my epic at all.. i have better weapons that help me heal and better weapons that help me dps.  There is nothing on that weapon at this time that makes me wanna pick it up at all zero.. Gratz me for the disco  /thumbs up    /rolls eyes

I hope that maybe someday someone with a red name will say okay guys we will at least read this stuff you got.  You dont have to say you are gonna do the fix but at least say u will read it..     Right now i feel like a kid fishing and watching a bobber out in the water...  all i want is some movement you dont have to take it under the water just wiggle the bobber a bit.. give me a bit o hope... 

What cracks me up is moderators scream and yell (okay maybe not scream but the ban hammer can hit loudly) at folks that dont put stuff into constructive arguments and offer suggestions and support stuff with facts..  Here we have two folks put in a bunch of time.. heck an entire community of folks put their heads together to try and offer up a polite well thought out constructive suggestion to a perceived problem in hopes that the mod gods would be okay and that the devs would actually grace our class with some thought..

What do we get so far?? 

dude dont drop that pen.. its to loud...

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Old 04-02-2008, 06:40 PM   #14
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It's sad, but you are right, since there are no Dev's playing Inquisitors we basically get ignored.Has anyone tried PMing some Dev's yet?
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:06 PM   #15
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I sent one but i think i sent it to the wrong dev.  didnt get a reply back on that, which is understandable of course.. They are busy folks u know fixing all those other problems out there...  I know im mean negatvity mongering inquis..  I should be patient.. but dang.. everyone else gets to use their epic why cant i get to use mine and not feel like im hurting the raid by using it...  Oh ya cause i would be.. gah...

One quick question.. are there any inqs out there that use their mythical in a raid situation??? What i mean is would you consider it a must have in its current state??   I am willing to bet that there are more folks that say no its not a must use item then folks that say ya its da uber.... 

Last night the mystic was in my group with me and he tapped his ability that came with his epic wow is all i can say..  Then i got kinda sad, now why cant mine do something like that...  Our epic does have a cool graphic to it though i will admit that. Thank you art team for that one.  Sadly a cool graphic doesnt make mobs die...  or other players say  "cool whats the refreash on that ability??"  only thing i get is DANGIT ART STOP KILLING YOUR TANK!!!!  but he said he had adrenaline up.. i swear...  GAH  sorry dude let me rez u...

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Old 04-08-2008, 04:08 PM   #16
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5 zerker kills 8 bruiser kills and counting...  anyone else got some good numbers to post??

I kid of course but oh man its tempting..   the first time i did that to my zerker he dropped like someone hit him in the head with a sledge hammer..    hehe i was laughing so hard..    but ya our epic bites...

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Old 04-09-2008, 10:44 AM   #17
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First off... have pity on the zerkers don't kill us with your mythical... our mythical sucks too... kill the guardians.2nd I want to mention the damage spreads on most of the mythicals sucks... seems they don't want high crit values anymore and they are using mythicals to ease people into a future expansion where all weaps will have lower crit ranges.3rd thanks for mentioning "the other offensive healers got bad mythicals too" because you are 100% correct... the fury mythical blows too.4rd... yes I am behind you... but only after the zerk one is fixed since that's my main ;-p
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Old 04-29-2008, 06:38 AM   #18
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plz SoE , We try to continue to play our class, could we have some attention, a little word from a dev ?
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Old 05-10-2008, 03:25 PM   #19
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MisterE wrote:

One quick question.. are there any inqs out there that use their mythical in a raid situation??? What i mean is would you consider it a must have in its current state??   I am willing to bet that there are more folks that say no its not a must use item then folks that say ya its da uber....      

My Mythical is mainly for show. When I raid, I have a whole arsenal of weapons to use Bonecrusher, Mallet of the Twins, Hammer of Swirling Constellations, Supple Dogwood Staff, Impending Violence Magestaff, and Tailspike of Pharadar and plenty others from lower tiers most of this stuff goes for minimum dkp so I have no fear picking it up.I have a Melee DPS set, a Casting Set [Our raid usually has 3 Illusionists, 2 Troubs and 70+ Inquisitor Spell masters are 20pp on my server and are abundant since there are maybe 5 raiding Inquisitors on our server, so why not pretend to be a Templar on those "amazing" VP Stationary encounters] and a Heal set, which does NOT even equip the "mitical".I used the Mythical on our Avatar of Flame kill, only because the other healer in my group was new to the encounter (and it was an early morning kill, and I was tired) for the extra heal on Aftershock, which was unnesacary. I used it I used it on Druusk when one of my group mates was a clicker, but one overloaded heal item to trigger off my group heal turned out to be all I needed... Lets see, not really a raid, when I was solo healing a PUG Maiden's Chamber run I used it once to show off... Other times I have equipped it to attempt to kill a raid tank to attempt to break the boredom of VP's useless trash mobs, which I have been unsuccessful as of yet. So Yeah, It's pretty much useless for me... If I had to do the Mythical quest over again knowing how little I use it, I wouldn't have even wasted my time.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:55 PM   #20
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Here is the word from the dev you were looking forward too. I was not addressed to your class but is was a blanket statement.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=417349

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Old 05-13-2008, 01:13 AM   #21
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That does not tell me that the Devs have Inqs anywhere on the radar, or that they are aware of any issues affecting the Inquisitor class.
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:19 PM   #22
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Looks like they still have not set foot in this forum for months.
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:58 PM   #23
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Alarick0 wrote:
Looks like they still have not set foot in this forum for months.
And the changes in the up-coming GU47 patch show. * Improved the Aftershock heal amount and also added a bonus to casting time and reuse time of heals * Penitent Protection will now allow 25% of the damage to go to the intended target. 20% of the incoming damage will then be split amongst fighters in the group. This should make this spell less of a tank killer but the caster must still pay careful attention to their tank.[I cannot control my vocabulary], So much for hope in using the weapon in any serious dps situations, honestly Aftershock really didn't need any more healing power... Meh. I guess Bonecrusher will remain my primary weapon of choice.Grumphttp://www.dracosargent.com
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:48 AM   #24
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1) The "upgrade" to aftershock...  It is weak. Some simple facts...

Trakanon is one of the better fights to have aftershock heals occur. The last time we killed it, I solo healed my group.

Aftershock healed for 16500hp. (epic weapon proc, under 3% of my parse)

Convert Ally healed for 53,500hp (inq heal proc, 8% of my parse)

Even runic cover healed for TWICE as much as aftershock. So even if they doubled the heals done by aftershock, a pair of T2 shoulders or T3 legs would be better...

So even if they made aftershock heal for 20% more, what would it do, count for a dismal 3.5% of my parse at best, on one of the few encounters in the game it gets a good opportunity to shine? Kind of pathetic.

2) The "upgrade" to Penitent Protection

This still completely sucks.  It's easier to heal damage that is spread out, with group wide heals, compared to damage focused on a single target. If it is a situation where having this clicky in effect will provide ACTUAL BENEFIT to any non tanks in the group, it will still slaughter the tank[s] and prove cumbersome on healers trying to single target heal/recover a fighter.

This effect needs to be tagged, bagged, and buried. Then replaced with something that resembles useful.

3) A slight heal spell cast + reuse timer boost? Something that resembles useful. Until I see figures on the modifiers, I will not voice an opinion.

Am I holding my breath? No. Just going to watch the templar epic get even better, and what is going to happen to ours?

Our mythical is utterly horrible for DPS.

Our mythical does nothing to help our buffs that were ravaged by diminishing return curves, or our buffs as a whole.

I see nothing to be excited about here.

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Old 06-28-2008, 07:19 AM   #25
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 The Impact of the Sacrosanct ( Templar )

  • The proc effect should now last slightly longer
  • Added a bonus to reactives based on the templar’s wisdom

 Penitent’s Absolution( Inquisitor )

  • Improved the Aftershock heal amount and also added a bonus to casting time and reuse time of heals
  • Penitent Protection will now allow 25% of the damage to go to the intended target.  20% of the incoming damage will then be split amongst fighters in the group.  This should make this spell less of a tank killer but the caster must still pay careful attention to their tank.
   Aeralik still thinks the templar's epic is not good enough and inquisitors deserve this epic and updates.Aftershock                    It is better, but it depends on
the added bonus to casting time and reuse time of heals.Penitent Protection       Still crappy.  This effect should be buried as Trinral said.Penitent smite              Proc on healing is better.  Plus, reuse time reduction might be better instead of the damege proc.
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Old 06-28-2008, 07:54 AM   #26
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I'm an unnatural hopeful person, but even I start to loose my last bit of hope to ever see a good Inquisitor Mystical.
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:54 PM   #27
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Putting the Inq and Templar mythicals side by side, shows how Inqs are being shafted by SoE devs.

Impenetrable Faith (templar) vs Penitent Smite (inq)

Templar wins easily. The Faith effect is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to proc, as it procs off beneficial spells (heals and buffs). Between casting group heals, and deliberately recasting group buffs (free to cast) they have 6*12% per cast (72%) chance of proccing stun immunity and 20% cast speed enhancement for 10s. This is easily maintainable.

The Inquisitor proc does give the group daze+stifle immunity, but everyone with half a clue has scoffed at how pitiful this proc is. It's difficult to proc, especially on difficult encounters, where we primarily heal and do not do a lot of damage, and we can not multiply our proc chances by 6 like templars, and very few encounters have stifles and dazes where this could prove beneficial, and where the steadfast aa spec would not already cover it.

Blessing of Aegolism (templar) vs Aftershock (inq)

For 1 concentration point, templars give everyone in their group 1460hp, and mods of +21 to crush / slash / pierce / defense / parry / deflection / aggression, +24 HASTE!!!  Just wow... SoE forgot to add "kitchen sink" to that list of mods.

Regarding aftershock (2s after heal proc on group heal, and both single direct heals), parses prove how useless it actually is. Not even 3% of my parse when I solo healed my group on Trakanon. Aftershock failed to heal for a third of what dogma did, and failed to do a half of what my runic cover shoulders (from venril) done.

Divine Light (templar) vs Penitent Protection (inq)

Divine light does something useful, reduces damage on the tank. With a 5 minute reuse timer, handy to use on pulls and a few times during big fights.

Penitent Protection outright sucks. Adding damage to a tank provides no useful benefit.  With a 10 minute reuse timer, it's salt in the wounds.

Proposed changes... Templars win hands down there, too... They get a boost to a heal that counts, reactives. We get a boost to .. aftershock, a heal that already does nothing and will still do nothing worth so much as a blink after the changes. So unless the cast + reuse time mod Inqs get is HUGE, Inqs got shafted (note: templar epic proc, easily maintained, gives them a 20% cast speed mod).

And the Templars will get a longer duration to their proc, being a stun immunity and 20% cast speed mod. So it will be even harder for templars to ever be hit by a stun on a raid, and they get to cast faster for longer . And we still have a tank murdering clickie to unleash our wrath on what ever tank in raid we do not like. Fair? Totally!! (note sarcasm)

I would absolutely love to hear the SoE dev responsible for epic design try to give a valid explanation as to how these two weapons can be so grossly unbalanced.

Even more so, I would love to see the SoE dev responsible for epic design, fix the Inq epic and give it a MASSIVE boost.

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Old 06-29-2008, 02:57 PM   #28
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While most other classes go crazy with joy when they get thier mythical, I as an Inquisitor was left feeling empty. Whoopdeedoo, I got some healt crit and some heal amount boost.  Kinda sad when in most raid fights I'd rather use a 2 handed weapon from Kor-sha. 

 Devs, please replace Penitent protection with making Tenacity a group buff like the Templar's.

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Old 06-29-2008, 06:06 PM   #29
Szerian
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Yeah, my guild just spent like 24 cumulative hours pulling Nexona, and for what a PITA encounter it is this mythical was quite disappointing.  I knew how much it sucked ahead of time and was prepared, but it really sucks to be stuck with such a PoS while all your guild mates are getting "game-changingly" over-powered weapon...Example:  Our guilds dirges, they could not touch me in pvp, I would laugh at how I could kill them with 90% power left, but now they spike me for 2344 damage per hit and burn me in less than 3 seconds with their OP mythical -.-
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:48 AM   #30
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Also Templar epic will increase reactive amount which will mean +heal cap will rise for Templars.  So they get synergy bonus from their epic.We get epic that has no synergy -- unless you count ANTI-synergy.If you are trying to get the most heal procs your handicapping the chances you will get the damage procIf you are trying to get the most damage procs your handicapping the chances you will get the heal proc.Our Clicky is the only one on a 10 minute timer? [Removed for Content].  It's pretty much proven SOE does not read these boards at all.  They don't understand Inquisitors at all.Someone either reads Templar's forums or they have multiple devs who play the class.Our epics fights itself. No other epic does this [Removed for Content].  If an epic fights itself then both sides of it should be OUTSTANDING as a tradeoff since you can only do ONE AT A TIME.  This is not the case or even remotely the case.Templar epic is great example of an epic augmenting everything a templar does. Why don't we have a dev with any common sense like the templars?Whoever the Templar's designer is they obviously understand endgame and understand the class.Whoever the Inquisitor's designer is deserves to be fired.
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